Coccothrinax 'azul' - ready to put in ground

[Al in Kona]

Here's my potted plant of Coccothrinax 'azul' setting on the ground at the spot where I'm thinking of planting it.

I understand that in habitat it grows on serpentine soils which most of us do not have. What should I add to the planting hole to perhaps help with the success in growing this species? Iron, micronutrients (Granusol), some compost? Do serpentine soils tend to be more on the alkaline or acidic side? Please help me with your advise, thoughts or any knowledge you might have regarding this palm. If you are growing Coccothrinac 'azul' let me know. Got any pics to show?

A pic of my plant and the site (WSW slope) where I thought I'd plant it.

[cfkingfish]

C. "azul" is not hard to grow, it is keeping the color that is the problem. The soil it grows in has higher concentrations of iron, nickel, and cobalt, and it is believed that gives the plant this sheen. I know someone who bought 4 nice 15 gallon specimens and planted them in sandy soil with a neutral pH. They grow just fine, but the color goes away. If you want to keep the color, you might want to backfill your planting with some trace metal shavings?

If in doubt plant it in a neutral well draining soil like coarse sand, and you may be able to keep the color with liquid feed of these toxic metals (to most plants).

[galveston1602]

If in doubt plant it in a neutral well draining soil like coarse sand, and you may be able to keep the color with liquid feed of these toxic metals (to most plants).

ok, im curious, how would you get toxic metals in a liquid feed? visiting a superfund site?

[Morabeza]

Aloha Al,

Your seedling looks great , how old is it?

I am growing six seedlings. Two months ago I moved them up into individual 1 gallon pots, with a twist. I had some autoclaved serpentine soil on hand and decided to experiment with by incorporating it into my potting mix for the seedlings. I potted two with 40% serpentine, two with 20% serpentine and two I kept as controls. The other components of the mixture is my regular potting mix: 50% black cinder (scoria/lava rock) and 50% potting mix. So far all six are growing at the same pace and same colour but perhaps in a few years I will have some results to share.

I hope yours will grow blue without special treatment, but either way I look forward to seeing how it matures for you.

Jacob

[SunnyFl]

I have a prized Azul in a very large container. (We didn't plant it out because we were considering moving - and I wanted to take it with me if we did.) It's a couple of feet OA. Even without the blue coloration, it is a very striking palm. And as Christian said, it is easy to grow - not fussy at all - maybe because of harsh conditions in habitat? For a couple of years, mine got pretty much full sun. Now it gets filtered sun, near tree canopy. It seems to tolerate either light level quite well.

I have mine in regular potting mix with added perlite and sand for drainage. I couldn't think of how to create the "serpentine" conditions of its native habitat. So that's probably why the color isn't as blue as it should be. Christian mentioned metals - would something like Ironite be good for Azul?

I wish I had a pic to share. My camera was broken awhile ago and haven't bothered to get it fixed. I'll try to borrow one so I can post a photo.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

Al, go visit your local hardware store, you can buy iron and cobalt there in the form of nails and drill bits... you can mix a few handfuls of that stuff in there.

Nickel? You got me there... maybe throw in some 5 cent pieces?

[cfkingfish]

Al, go visit your local hardware store, you can buy iron and cobalt there in the form of nails and drill bits... you can mix a few handfuls of that stuff in there.

Nickel? You got me there... maybe throw in some 5 cent pieces?

Actually if you can find a way to drain the acid out of a battery safely, the remaining parts are usually Nickel, Cadmium (a little Cadmium never hurt anyone , and Cobalt as well. Pulverize the battery and throw it on the top of the soil like a fertilizer!

Now that is some nasty soil!

[Darold Petty]

Aloha, Al I can mail you a few pounds of actual serpentine rock from SF. It's quite soft, and one could easily break it up into small pieces, to be used a a surface mulch around your palm! PM me if you're interested, and best wishes!

[Carlo Morici]

Al, my humble opinion is do nothing until you really need it. "Azul" is/are probably form/s of Coccothrinax macroglossa (yours looks so, so far). This species in my experience does well in regular good soils. It is also quite fast since trunk is started, as your plant will do in about 2-3 years. Some other species from serpentine areas are surely more demanding than this one. Your plant really begs for being planted in the ground. South Florida soils are probably a different story.

On the other hand, it is good to know that Jacob has started an experiment. It will be nice to see results in some time.

Bill is probably right about mixing in coins and nails as a home-made metal soil. Nickel? I am allergic to nickel. I realized this after years working with serpentine palms...each time I visited Eastern Cuba (and New Caledonia) my hands came back with weird dots .

Carlo

[FRITO]

very interesting read. didnt know what serpintine soil were until I googled it.

serpentine is the state rock of California I found. Remeber the syagrus 'abreojo' found growing in Baja in on old tire next to a leaky ice machine with piss and beer bottle caps.

throws some metal in the soil and let us know how it turns out. maybe they are like Hydrangeas where you can change the acidity and change the color of the flowers.

lots of love,

Luke

[Davidl]

Al I am eager to see its size in 5 yrs. I have not had much problem growing any coccothrinax here when I fertilize with minors. The color thing maybe is related to the serpentine soils but I would guess its the iron that makes it darker green. I kind of doubt nickles will break down anytime soon

[Scott Cohen]

Im not totally sure it has to do with massive amounts of toxic metal in your soil,

There are several growing at steve sterns place in homestead that are among the nicest i have ever seen,

and to my knowledge there just planted in sand and limestone. then again, a meteor coulda hit

there a billion years ago leaving enough toxic sludge to grow C. Cowellii like weeds

[Jeff Searle]

I find this species to grow very easy. There are deffinitely some others that have struggled for me. I have 3 planted in the yard that are easily 5' tall. The soil is just a mixture of some sand, rocks and black top soil. Sounds crazy, I know. But I made a raised bed a couple of years ago and used whatever I had. Mine look really good and have a good silver/blue color to them. I believe when it rains alot during the summer months, there's probablly less color on the leaves. But their the real deal.

Jeff

[MattyB]

Al,

I read that throwing a bunch of pennies in and around Hydrangea gives enough metal to, in acidic soils, allow the plant to bloom blue. Might be worth a try. That said, isn't the blue hue on most palms a result of the leaves creating a glaucous, waxy bloom to protect from moisture loss during arid times. First getting it established in an extremely well draining hole with no organic ammendments, and then not watering it any more, may result in a blue coloration. Just a thought.

[Shirleypalmpaws]

Bumping for experiments updates

[Really full garden]

Shirley mine have been painfully slow so far. They are speeding up as trunks form.My largest is about 1m tall and is about 11 years old, planted about 9 years ago.The one photographed just started looking "blue" last year.

I amended my sandy soil with some top soil when they were planted and they have received they same treatment all my palms receive.

[mike in kurtistown]

Interesting topic because I got two groups of seeds in April 2007. Both were labeled Coccothrinax macroglossa, but one was supposed to be ssp. "azul", and the others just "regular" macroglossa. I had good germination and have raised them without any metallic amendments. I recall being told that because a species is found in a typical environment (arid, wet, serpentine, acid, alkaline, clayey, sandy) doesn't necessarily mean that they will not prosper in other conditions. Their growth rate has been very slow, but most of them have made progress in acid potting soil, under 30 percent shade cloth and 150 inches of rain per year. I have never detected any difference in color, but it seems that the "azuls" have grown faster and better.

In May 2013, I planted out for, two of each group, in full sun, again no soil amendment. One of the regulars died quickly, because I tore off part of the root system while planting. Last December, I planted out three more of the azuls in the same area. They have been growing, though some have shown unusual of leaf yellowing or spotting on the older leaves, while others look perfect. I attach pics of all six surviving plants. The first one is a "regular".

[aztropic]

In the shade,they tend to be less blue.Here's mine growing very well in the Arizona desert.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[GMann]

I just planted one I bought from Steve Stern. I threw some nickels, old nails, and iron sulphate dietary supplement pills in the soil. So we'll see how it goes....

[Josh-O]

In the shade,they tend to be less blue.Here's mine growing very well in the Arizona desert.

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

Interesting technique Gmann. keep us posted on you science experiment

[SouthFLA]

On 1/23/2009 at 4:05 AM, Morabeza said:

Aloha Al,

 

 

Your seedling looks great , how old is it?

 

I am growing six seedlings. Two months ago I moved them up into individual 1 gallon pots, with a twist. I had some autoclaved serpentine soil on hand and decided to experiment with by incorporating it into my potting mix for the seedlings. I potted two with 40% serpentine, two with 20% serpentine and two I kept as controls. The other components of the mixture is my regular potting mix: 50% black cinder (scoria/lava rock) and 50% potting mix. So far all six are growing at the same pace and same colour but perhaps in a few years I will have some results to share.

 

I hope yours will grow blue without special treatment, but either way I look forward to seeing how it matures for you.

 

Jacob

Do you have an update on this experiment?

[aztropic]

8 years later,this has proven to be my fastest growing Coccothrinax. It now has about 12 feet of trunk,produces viable seed,and is reaching for the sky!

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

 

 

[hbernstein]

That's one good-looking palm!

[mike in kurtistown]

Here's a visual update of one of the seedlings that I showed in 2014 (lawn chair for scale). Leaf base fibers are like Coccothrinax macroglossa (see Palms of Cuba by Paul Craft) and not like C. spirituana. Also, the wax washes off after time, so I conclude that all my seedlings were C. macroglossa.

[pohonkelapa]

Wow, this thread goes way back! MattyB and i visited Al's garden in 2007 and it was AMAZING! He and his family were incredibly gracious!

[bubba]

I met Al At the biennial in Miami numerous years ago. We hung out and laughed for a while as we walked around the Montgomery botanical garden. He was truly a wonderful human being. God bless.

[aztropic]

5 hours ago, bubba said:

I met Al At the biennial in Miami numerous years ago. He was truly a wonderful human being. God bless.

Yep. I was lucky enough to have been invited to tour his and his daughters property in Kona. Both him and his wife were very friendly people. I still remember the visit clearly. Their kindness really made for some good memories.

 

aztropic

Mesa,Arizona

[GMann]

On 12/15/2014 at 1:44 PM, Josh-O said:

Interesting technique Gmann. keep us posted on you science experiment

Coming back to this topic now after many years, I should say that the experiment did not go so well. The palm died, and it was the most expensive palm I ever bought. No idea whether it was anything to do with what I put in the soil....

[aztropic]

Fast growers, heavy seeders, stiff fronds with heavy silver undersides. The perfect Coccothrinax! 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Tracy]

19 hours ago, aztropic said:

Fast growers, heavy seeders, stiff fronds with heavy silver undersides. The perfect Coccothrinax! 

Any success over the years sprouting your palm's seeds?  I'm hoping you are getting a new generation going there  in Mesa!

[aztropic]

Absolutely. I have 2 community pots going,but it will still be a few years before any are ready for sale. It takes me about 5 years minimum to grow most Coccothrinax species to nice 1 gallon size. 

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

[Fusca]

5 hours ago, Tracy said:

Any success over the years sprouting your palm's seeds?  I'm hoping you are getting a new generation going there  in Mesa!

I've got a community pot of them going here in South Texas too!    They're still strap-leafers but going strong.  Thanks @aztropic!