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SubTropicRay

Cold air headed for Florida midweek

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Tampa Scott

Looked at the history on my weather station, and here are my lows for the last 6 years. 2009-29.4f, 2008-28.3f, 2007-32.6f, 2006-32.8f, 2005-30.8f and 2004- 33.3f.

Edited by Tampa Scott

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spockvr6

Scott-

Looks like 10a to me.

But, as we all know deep down, to really be a SOLID Zone 10 as far as plants/palms go, essentially it requires a 10b climate.

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Walt
This traveller's palm had no leaf damage that I could see. This tree is in the open.

2621372110042496162S600x600Q85.jpg

2188165350042496162S600x600Q85.jpg

Walt-

IMO and based on how my Travellers have behaved when hit with cold, that Travellers likely didnt even see 35F.

Any of mine that are exposed, have several times now shown damage at a slightly above freezing (~34F) on the highest leaves. Ive always assumed this is due to radiational heat loss from the leaves to the sky, thus allowing the actual leaf surface to drop below freezing, even if the air around it is above freezing.

Larry, I believe the in-town lows probably weren't lower than 35 degrees, based on the air inversion. When ever we get a radiational freeze here it's always the same scenario, that traveler's palm never gets burned.

On January 5, 2001 when my open yard low was 22 degrees (and Archbold recorded their record tying 13 degrees) this same traveler's palm (10a plant) wasn't burned. Yet my white bird of paradise (9b plant) was totally fried.

But this doesn't hold true at all for advection freezes. Back in January of 2003 when at my place I had a windy 29.5 degree low, none of my white bird of paradise plants were burned. Further, my traveler's palm only had some dessication to the upper 1/3 of its highest leaf (all other leaves were fine). Yet, the traveler's palm up on the hill was totally wind dessciated.

But the fact is, 95% of damaging cold weather here is from radiational cooling nights, not advection nights. So, in the 11 winters I've lived here (I'm in my 12th winter now) I've only seen the traveler's palm up on the hill in town damaged once (in January of 2003 as I stated above). This is one reason I believe the USDA rating in town is 10a, whereas the surrounding areas are 9b, and even 9a in the extreme outlying areas. And as far as Archbold Biological Station, that place is normally 8b, twice dropping to 8a!

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SubTropicRay

Larry,

The whole damned area is too cold for me. We both need to move south.

Ray

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spockvr6
Larry,

The whole damned area is too cold for me. We both need to move south.

Ray

A few weeks ago, I was checking out places on Pine Island....some good deals down there now......

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PalmGuyWC

Just wait until Cuba opens up, if it ever does. There will be an exodus down there. There will be a flight every 30 minutes, and high speed ferrys too. Their economy will explode.

Dick

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surgeon83

Larry, the scary thing is the thermometer read 32.7 after sitting in an icebath for half an hour. I still want to believe its crap because so many things still don't add up. And as far as traveller's palms, my healthy one, which is apparently in the coldest part of my yard, 6 feet from the boat that had 1/4" thick ice in it at 11pm, looks fine and all I did was put a 4' tall piece of styrofoam on either side of the base, and the thing is overall at least 8' tall. Top 1' of leaves got full exposure to heavy frost both, or even all three, nights. Most of them around here don't have much damage which is strange considering how cold it was compared to where you are. My smaller ones, which, shall we say, are still getting established, ehem, took more damage.

May have to take Friday off to get time to adequately protect everything for two more consecutive nights. At least I don't have to get up for work the next day.

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_Keith
Just wait until Cuba opens up, if it ever does. There will be an exodus down there. There will be a flight every 30 minutes, and high speed ferrys too. Their economy will explode.

Dick

Yep, I am ready to buy there now.

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phatmiata

Guess its time to bring the potted plants inside (Again) for round 2009 round 2! Maybe we sould plant some more oak trees to protect the palms!! :lol:

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Cristóbal

I see in the weather underground today more cold for florida in friday and saturday night temperatures in low 30s they say in orlando, tampa, this can mean another freeze ?

I feel very, very bad for you in central and north florida. This is more worse then the cold we have in the west in 2007.

One freeze is bad but possible two in very short time can kill the more weaker palms.

And even if not a freeze if theres frost this is almost the same thing.

Edited by Cristóbal

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tikitiki

Frost is harder on palms than a 32f freeze in my yard.

I see in the weather underground today more cold for florida in friday and saturday night temperatures in low 30s they say in orlando, tampa, this can mean another freeze ?

I feel very, very bad for you in central and north florida. This is more worse then the cold we have in the west in 2007.

One freeze is bad but possible two in very short time can kill the more weaker palms.

And even if not a freeze if theres frost this is almost the same thing.

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_Keith
Frost is harder on palms than a 32f freeze in my yard.

I see in the weather underground today more cold for florida in friday and saturday night temperatures in low 30s they say in orlando, tampa, this can mean another freeze ?

I feel very, very bad for you in central and north florida. This is more worse then the cold we have in the west in 2007.

One freeze is bad but possible two in very short time can kill the more weaker palms.

And even if not a freeze if theres frost this is almost the same thing.

Relating to foliage damage, based on my recent experiences, I would say frost in the open is the rough equivalent to 28 degrees under canopy. This is based on a 2 hour duration in both cases.

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FRITO

frost isnt a factor up here regarding palms, as anything that is fully hardy here can take heavy frost.

we have had normal temps here. my low so far was 23.1 degrees. last winter I recorded 23.4 degrees. and the year before 23 degrees. all these were with the same meter in the same location.

wishing spring would hurry up and get here many palm seed are germinating!

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SubTropicRay

Luke,

It seems winter has saved its "best" for last. Watch out next week.

Ray

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Jimbean

Here are some pictures of Port St. John, in central/north Brevard county:

These were taken near I-95:

IMG_0001-1.jpg

some hedges around a clinic

IMG_0002.jpg

IMG_0003.jpg

Freeze damage on Oleanders (Nerium oleander)

IMG_0004-1.jpg

Fried Brazilian pepper

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Jimbean

IMG_0005-1.jpg

Here is a close up of another Brazilian pepper

IMG_0006-1.jpg

IMG_0007.jpg

The above two photos were also near Parrish medical clinic

How cold do you folks think it got there?

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Jimbean

Here are some more pictures of Port St. John:

IMG_0008-1.jpg

IMG_0009-1.jpg

IMG_0012.jpg

That is a strangler fig (ficus aurea)

IMG_0015-1.jpg

Here is a close up of another strangler fig

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Jimbean

IMG_0016.jpg

Gumbo-limbo I planted

This is at my parents house:

IMG_0011.jpg

IMG_0017.jpg

Edited by Jimbean

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Jimbean

IMG_0010-1.jpg

A small royal palm

IMG_0013.jpg

Thrinax radiata

IMG_0014.jpg

Thrinax morrisii

Edited by Jimbean

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Dave-Vero

State Road 528 from the coast to Orlando has lots of burned Brazilian peppers. Still, the north Brevard damage seems a bit surprising. Thanks for the photos.

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Walt
IMG_0005-1.jpg

Here is a close up of another Brazilian pepper

IMG_0006-1.jpg

IMG_0007.jpg

The above two photos were also near Parrish medical clinic

How cold do you folks think it got there?

No doubt those P. selloums saw mid 20s, IMO, since they are small and low to the ground where it's colder during radiational freezes.

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PalmGuyWC

My God!!!

How cold did it get there? I have selloums and thay take below 25F before they show damage. My borders are lined with Oleanders and I get freezing temps every winter, but I can't recall any cold damage to the foliage. It must be that things are actively growing when you get hit by the cold. All of my things quit growing about the middle of Nov. so they must be harden up for the much colder temps I can expect in Dec and Jan.

I did get some superficial damage to the Selloums in the winter of '07 when it got down to 23.5F here with many other nights below freezing, but they poped right back with warm weather. My Selloums are growing on the north side of my house so there must be some protection coming from the house.

Dick

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gsn

Dick,

Beleive me when I say it got COLD here northern Brevard county for 3 nights in a row....and that all I'm going to say about that!!!

Except as of right now it is supposed to happen again next Tuesday night! :rage:

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Walt

Let the frigging cold air come. It's all academic for me now! There's little left to destroy!

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jasons

Ack! No! My Aunt in Dunedin made it without any damage this winter - I say keep it up north where it belongs :-)

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epicure3
My God!!!

How cold did it get there? I have selloums and thay take below 25F before they show damage. My borders are lined with Oleanders and I get freezing temps every winter, but I can't recall any cold damage to the foliage. It must be that things are actively growing when you get hit by the cold. All of my things quit growing about the middle of Nov. so they must be harden up for the much colder temps I can expect in Dec and Jan.

I did get some superficial damage to the Selloums in the winter of '07 when it got down to 23.5F here with many other nights below freezing, but they poped right back with warm weather. My Selloums are growing on the north side of my house so there must be some protection coming from the house.

Dick

Actually, those are P. 'Xanadu', which is much less hardy than P. Selloum. It is no surprise that they melted.

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bubba

Epic, Why are you not commenting on my Seagrape thingy I did for you!You did not even look?

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FRITO

My Philo 'xanado' did the same thing in a 3 gallon pot exposed on the north side where I hit 25.6 while I was out of town. (not the most recent cold event- the week before)

the one in the ground with moderate canopy is all discolored and has 'melted' yet like the photos show from the night I hit 23.2 and 24.1

Id say it was 26 or below to melt P. 'xanadu' like that.

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FRITO

here is mine under moderate canopy and only covered with a sheet

post-741-1233357619_thumb.jpg

post-741-1233357681_thumb.jpg

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epicure3
Epic, Why are you not commenting on my Seagrape thingy I did for you!You did not even look?

I'll go check it out. :)

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palmboi

Hiya Ray

am new on this forum, have search for a "disease forum" to get opinions on a freinds sickly reclinata, but have not been able to find the right one, Any help will be appreciated Thanks

Rick

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junglegalfla

Bubba,

My large sea grape here in St Pete defoliates every winter. I have a large one and have seen it do this for the last 7 winters whether there are cold events like this or not. Mine will continue this now until March-April. It still grows like a weed come warmer temps. I think it's a natural event for these this time of year. I still have to have mine hacked back every two years. I hate this tree in a small yard. The saucer sized leaves cover my beds quickly, they block water and take forever to break down.

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PalmatierMeg
Hiya Ray

am new on this forum, have search for a "disease forum" to get opinions on a freinds sickly reclinata, but have not been able to find the right one, Any help will be appreciated Thanks

Rick

Rick, you should start a new topic in Discussion subform re the reclinata's problems, preferably with detailed description and photos, so everyone can read/respond. BTW, welcome to Palmtalk.

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Tampa Scott

A little life returned to the garden today after the freeze.

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epicure3
Bubba,

My large sea grape here in St Pete defoliates every winter. I have a large one and have seen it do this for the last 7 winters whether there are cold events like this or not. Mine will continue this now until March-April. It still grows like a weed come warmer temps. I think it's a natural event for these this time of year. I still have to have mine hacked back every two years. I hate this tree in a small yard. The saucer sized leaves cover my beds quickly, they block water and take forever to break down.

I don't know what's worse, Sea Grape leaves or Magnolia leaves. I have both and both take forever to break down. Thankfully, Sea Grapes only grow as large hedges at my house.

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happ
Bubba,

My large sea grape here in St Pete defoliates every winter. I have a large one and have seen it do this for the last 7 winters whether there are cold events like this or not. Mine will continue this now until March-April. It still grows like a weed come warmer temps. I think it's a natural event for these this time of year. I still have to have mine hacked back every two years. I hate this tree in a small yard. The saucer sized leaves cover my beds quickly, they block water and take forever to break down.

I don't know what's worse, Sea Grape leaves or Magnolia leaves. I have both and both take forever to break down. Thankfully, Sea Grapes only grow as large hedges at my house.

Epicure,

I didn't know that seagrape defoliates. I have a small plant that looks the same as it did last summer [just much slower growth during winter]. BTW, I planted seagrape after seeing photos of your beautiful hedge ;)

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palmboi
Hiya Ray

am new on this forum, have search for a "disease forum" to get opinions on a freinds sickly reclinata, but have not been able to find the right one, Any help will be appreciated Thanks

Rick

Rick, you should start a new topic in Discussion subform re the reclinata's problems, preferably with detailed description and photos, so everyone can read/respond. BTW, welcome to Palmtalk.

Thanks meg will try to find subform and do that apprecaite your reply

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epicure3
Bubba,

My large sea grape here in St Pete defoliates every winter. I have a large one and have seen it do this for the last 7 winters whether there are cold events like this or not. Mine will continue this now until March-April. It still grows like a weed come warmer temps. I think it's a natural event for these this time of year. I still have to have mine hacked back every two years. I hate this tree in a small yard. The saucer sized leaves cover my beds quickly, they block water and take forever to break down.

I don't know what's worse, Sea Grape leaves or Magnolia leaves. I have both and both take forever to break down. Thankfully, Sea Grapes only grow as large hedges at my house.

Epicure,

I didn't know that seagrape defoliates. I have a small plant that looks the same as it did last summer [just much slower growth during winter]. BTW, I planted seagrape after seeing photos of your beautiful hedge ;)

Mine don't defoliate but do shed leaves in winter. I think if it defoliates, it's dead. I think you were looking at a post above.

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gsytch

With another cold outbreak coming this week, this unusual winter has been really hard. It started early in Nov with record cold and just will not stop. In my 21 years here in NPR I never remember such constant cold. We usually get a cold snap here and there, then it warms up for a few weeks. So many days in the 50'sF this year! I hit 28F in my back yard with last week and 30F in my treed front, and 30.2F the following morning back and 32.2F front. First 2 day below freezing since I began keeping records (which for me was 1989's freeze).....WINTER GO AWAY! I noticedf that when this snap is over, long range has us warming up for the following 10 days. Greg

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gsytch

Queen palms have burning at the school I teach at in Hudson (14 mi inland and north of me). Roeb's are fried up there, and one in my yard is browning while the others are fine (untouched). There is a Foxtail planted on Little Rd/SR52 completely brown yet a Bismark near school looks ok for a few browner leaves. Bismarks are hardy! This is planted open, is about 12' high and wide, near Queens that have some browning....Greg

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