gsn 22 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 It always seems as though the temps drop after sunrise.....anyone know why this is?!?!?!? Larry, I asked this question, and we disscussed this several years ago,I didn't get what I would consider a satifactory answer then. Maybe someone could explain it now?I looked for the link, but couldn't find it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gsn 22 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Scott-- but both of these will laugh at a 31F freeze, unless perhaps you have frost settling on the leaves. You have no frost forecast in Titusville, as this is an advective freeze, and only projected to be 31F for one hour and with a dewpoint of 23F. These palms are tough, chill-tolerant and freeze-tolerant plants, even as tiny specimens. mnorell, You obviously think the met guys have this forecast stuff down to a science? But I appreciate the info on the foxylady,and the kentiopsis! Well here is the actual record,and I don't live out in an inland rural area, I'm very close to the Indian River Lagoon,a fairly big body of water. I bottomed out at 28.6 F I went below freezing at around 3:15 AM and didn't get above freezing until 8:15 this morning,and had frost everywhere! If tonight is worse than last night,which the mets have forecast it will be, I am in DEEP doodoo! just sayin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tampa Scott 527 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 At ~6AM, my yard is hovering ~38F, so although things might drop a little bit more before sunrise, it looks like tonight wont freeze. The temps have dropped notably since 6AM.......at 740AM, its now down to 35.0F in my yard, with a few more tenths likely to go. It always seems as though the temps drop after sunrise.....anyone know why this is?!?!?!? Larry, It goes somthing like this: Cold air sinks and the coldest temps are found at ground level. The sun comes up heating the air that causes a lift in the air and the coldest temp. that was trapped at the ground lifts to the height of your temp. probe. Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spockvr6 28 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 At ~6AM, my yard is hovering ~38F, so although things might drop a little bit more before sunrise, it looks like tonight wont freeze. The temps have dropped notably since 6AM.......at 740AM, its now down to 35.0F in my yard, with a few more tenths likely to go. It always seems as though the temps drop after sunrise.....anyone know why this is?!?!?!? Larry, It goes somthing like this: Cold air sinks and the coldest temps are found at ground level. The sun comes up heating the air that causes a lift in the air and the coldest temp. that was trapped at the ground lifts to the height of your temp. probe. Scott Scott- I like your answer! That sounds completely plausible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spockvr6 28 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 and had frost everywhere! Scott- Do you happen to know what the dewpoint was in your yard? Its was ~25F dewpoint here, and this coupled with the light winds (1-4 mph) kept all surfaces dry. Even car rooftops were bone dry, so there was no chance of frost forming. Not sure if this will hold true tonight...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junglegalfla 61 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Well, I bottomed out at 38 degrees for around 6 mins early this morning around 4am. I'm currently around forty as I type this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gsn 22 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Larry, It goes somthing like this: Cold air sinks and the coldest temps are found at ground level. The sun comes up heating the air that causes a lift in the air and the coldest temp. that was trapped at the ground lifts to the height of your temp. probe. Scott Scott, That does make sense,and a more plausible answer, IMO than anything we got the last time the question was asked! thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eric in Orlando 4,853 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 32F here for an hour and a half, 7:15-9 AM Its a balmy 34F now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fastfeat 131 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 32F here for an hour and a half, 7:15-9 AM Its a balmy 34F now Not too bad at all there Eric. Kinda thought you might go to 30-ish. Best of luck tonight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gsn 22 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) and had frost everywhere! Scott- Do you happen to know what the dewpoint was in your yard? Its was ~25F dewpoint here, and this coupled with the light winds (1-4 mph) kept all surfaces dry. Even car rooftops were bone dry, so there was no chance of frost forming. Not sure if this will hold true tonight...... Larry the dew point started out at 27F at midnight, humidity at 70% At 6:00 AM it was 23F, humidity 84% As I said in a previous post, the WIND went pretty much completely calm over here, didn't really pick back up until after sunrise. All the usual supspects had ice and frost, car roof ,windows,roof tops. But it wasn't just on those surfaces, the lawn had frost, I would say about 50 % coverage.I didn't detect any on plant surfaces,but might have missed it? I obviously had spotting on some palms,the kentiopsis,the spindle,the adonidias, fishtails,but didn't see any frost on them? Edited January 21, 2009 by gsn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed in Houston 308 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 It always seems as though the temps drop after sunrise.....anyone know why this is? Larry, I asked this question, and we disscussed this several years ago,I didn't get what I would consider a satifactory answer then. Maybe someone could explain it now?I looked for the link, but couldn't find it? ****** Thermal radiation escaping to space exceeds thermal radiation incoming from the sun at sunrise. When the sun is at such a low angle, the radiation it emits is spread over a large area and the incoming watts per unit area is still lower than the outgoing radiation to space. If the watts per unit area phrase is a little confusing, just think of how long your shadow is at sunrise for an analogy. Ed in Houston Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tikitiki 12 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Now that makes sense, If I could understand it. It always seems as though the temps drop after sunrise.....anyone know why this is? Larry, I asked this question, and we disscussed this several years ago,I didn't get what I would consider a satifactory answer then. Maybe someone could explain it now?I looked for the link, but couldn't find it? ****** Thermal radiation escaping to space exceeds thermal radiation incoming from the sun at sunrise. When the sun is at such a low angle, the radiation it emits is spread over a large area and the incoming watts per unit area is still lower than the outgoing radiation to space. If the watts per unit area phrase is a little confusing, just think of how long your shadow is at sunrise for an analogy. Ed in Houston Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tikitiki 12 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 I hit 34f at 6:30 and it stayed for about an hour. I believe this temp is about right. My bananas look fine and they are the first to show if it hits 32f. Especially the siam ruby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gsn 22 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Thermal radiation escaping to space exceeds thermal radiation incoming from the sun at sunrise. When the sun is at such a low angle, the radiation it emits is spread over a large area and the incoming watts per unit area is still lower than the outgoing radiation to space. If the watts per unit area phrase is a little confusing, just think of how long your shadow is at sunrise for an analogy. Ed in Houston Ed, What if the sun didn't come UP at all? humour me! You would still have outgoing radiation with no incoming watts at all,but it would be a more steady gradual drop? There is almost always a considerable, noticeable drop (jump if you will) at sunrise and just after? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg 7,412 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Low hit 34F early this morning in Paradise. By 8:15 it had shot up to 36F. Right now temp is 45F. Thurs. morning could be ugly. But at least this year we remembered to turn off the irrigation overnight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FRITO 35 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 low of 23.2 on my meter. 13 hours below 32 degrees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steve 2 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 We were at 19F this morning in my yard up here in Atlanta when I left for work. We did not break freezing yesterday. I don't feel too bad for you Floridians, but still hope you don't lose any plants. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PalmatierMeg 7,412 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Noontime news issued official freeze warning for my area. Nightime lows in Ft. Myers will be 30-31F (30F is record). Current temp is now 48. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
www.dadluvsu.com 279 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Freeze warning for all of SoFla Meg, even Redlands area... This is going to get cold tonight! I'm giving in, after I finish lunch I'm going out to cover things up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TikiRick 382 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 A nice 39.7 for a low in east Ft. Lauderdale. I have not experienced a low lower than 38 in the past 10 years here at my garden. I hope that I never will. I thought that being directly on and surrounded by the wide river would offer some warmth, but the news station was reporting 43 while I saw 39. "Hello, Hilo Real Estate Company? I'd like to speak to you about a nice 3/2 on about an acre of land." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobbyinNY 7 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 We were at 19F this morning in my yard up here in Atlanta when I left for work. We did not break freezing yesterday. I don't feel too bad for you Floridians, but still hope you don't lose any plants. Steve Hey there, Steve.... 16f here this morning up here on Long Island...... I still feel terrible for all my friends in Florida, because we're SUPPOSED to get these kind of temps and there not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falcon1988 4 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 I just looked at my temp for this am it dropped in the lows 40's it was 50 at 1am with clouds around which helped. and wind just checking do we live in Florida? All of Florida is under a freeze warning i just pray we get some clouds in tonight and some wind to mix the air good luck everyone Regards Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
www.dadluvsu.com 279 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 I'm not taking any chances tonight, the tarp is up. It's already 75F in the shadehouse ... I have about 60 gallons of water in the shadehouse. When it warms up, should I water the palms? (more water in between soil particles, less surface area for warmth to escape overnight?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattyB 2,159 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Nice job William! Don't sweat the small stuff, I think your tarp is gonna be the big difference. You'll be safe in there. Good luck Floriguys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gsn 22 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 just checked the forecast for tonight,woe is me! NWS - 24 Weather.com- 30 Accuweather-30 wunderground- 27 Don't know if the NWS service is a computer glitch,or the others just haven't updated yet? I sustained fairly moderate damage last night, if I hit 24,25 tonight, I'm DONE! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
palmsOrl 2,042 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 My digital thermometer, which is located in a cold wind sheltered open area of my yard read 28.2F this morning! I am a bit skeptical of this since I see almost no damage on the tropicals in my yard as of now. My spindle shows just the beginnings of slight damage. This would seem to indicate more like 30-31F. I think tonight is going to be bad considering at 3 PM it's only in the mid 40s! The nws discussion is saying mid 20s for most of the area tonight. It will be interesting to see how much the urban heat island will help tonight, because I am sure it would have been colder in Orlando (than 32) last night, if the heat island wasn't a factor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gsn 22 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Unfortunately I have come to the conclusion that this was/is an east coast event,looking at the temps,and forecasted temps for tonight. If you drew a line down the middle of the state just east of Orlando,everything east of that line more or less seems to have gotten colder? Whether it's as Larry said because of the postion of the high pressure system, which makes sense,or something else? The east coast was/is going to be colder,especially if the mets are correct with their forecast? Edited January 21, 2009 by gsn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
epicure3 95 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 I'm not taking any chances tonight, the tarp is up. It's already 75F in the shadehouse ... I have about 60 gallons of water in the shadehouse. When it warms up, should I water the palms? (more water in between soil particles, less surface area for warmth to escape overnight?) Uh.....I think there might be a circus nearby missing its Big Show tent. Wow!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
www.dadluvsu.com 279 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 I did watch the Barnum and Bailey trains pass by going north the other day.... Hmmmmm? Thanks Matt, I'm always unsure when the weather acts up, it's totally out of my control Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ruskinPalms 916 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 Only topped out at 50.9F at some point this afternoon. NWS is forcasting 30F with "patchy frost" for tonight. My prediction for my yard still stands at 29F with probably heavier frost than "patchy". Ridiculous low temps around 22F and 23F are predicted in inland hillsborough county around Brandon, and 24F to 25F in Wimauma which is only about 8 miles more inland than me. Pretty scary stuff. May be a lot of dead tropicals in Brandon and the I-4 corridor that have been planted over the last several years. Your only hope tonight is to be in proximity to some sort of water or be under dense canopy - preferably both! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
junglegalfla 61 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 6 pm and it's already 43.3. Brrrrrr I think I need to move to HI. This bites Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gsn 22 Report post Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Bren, Pretty much the same here 43.2F I've already thrown in the towel! You see that kentiopsis frond in my avatard, it doesn't look like that after last night, no telling what it will look like tomorrow?But my guess is completely brown instead of partially brown! Good luck everyone, hopefully it won't be as bad as they are predicting? Newest numbers NWS - 25 Weather.com- 27 Accuweather-30 wunderground- 23 Edited January 21, 2009 by gsn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbean 924 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) I'll post temperature graphics in the mornings C'mon Jimbean, lets see that Florida purple popsicle! There: damn that cold pocket over Brevard county! Edited January 22, 2009 by Jimbean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spockvr6 28 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Guys and Gals.....today was the most unbelievable thing my weather station has ever logged......a high of 46F!?!?!? Unreal! And at 9PM tonight, Im already down to 39F! The skies are crystal clear and the air is dead calm. I surely hope something changes by morning or it might be awful ugly out there! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ed in Houston 308 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 'Ed in Houston' post: Thermal radiation escaping to space exceeds thermal radiation incoming from the sun at sunrise. When the sun is at such a low angle, the radiation it emits is spread over a large area and the incoming watts per unit area is still lower than the outgoing radiation to space. If the watts per unit area phrase is a little confusing, just think of how long your shadow is at sunrise for an analogy. Ed, What if the sun didn't come UP at all? humour me! You would still have outgoing radiation with no incoming watts at all,but it would be a more steady gradual drop? There is almost always a considerable, noticeable drop (jump if you will) at sunrise and just after? ****** I think Scott had the right idea. I would add that a non-linear drop at about sunrise would be a local effect on a calm day where at sunrise, some atmospheric heating would occur and cause convection. The moving air would leave in it's wake a bit lower pressure that then could be invaded by cooler air from a nearby cold air basin. Ed in Houston Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happ 140 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Guys and Gals.....today was the most unbelievable thing my weather station has ever logged......a high of 46F!?!?!? Unreal! And at 9PM tonight, Im already down to 39F! The skies are crystal clear and the air is dead calm. I surely hope something changes by morning or it might be awful ugly out there! Larry, I'm sure that was a record cold maximum. Was Tampa as cold? I wish a coastal wind would develop for all the palm growers tonight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BS Man about Palms 2,498 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 I did watch the Barnum and Bailey trains pass by going north the other day.... Hmmmmm? Thanks Matt, I'm always unsure when the weather acts up, it's totally out of my control Bill- That tent I suspect will keep it 3-5 degrees warmer than the outside temp. The humidity inside will help thats sure. You could use my trick of some halogen lights in there for some heat. Good luck everyone! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunnyFl 10 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 41F here in Pompano Beach at 7AM. The 25 degree difference from yesterday AM is the hardest thing to take. Best of luck to those folks farther north and inland, especially tomorrow AM. Pompano Beach? I used to live there - ages ago. I really miss S. FL. We bottomed out around 41 this morning, and it stayed cold all day. Just plain sucks. It's already about 45 and dropping. But the NWS is STILL predicting a low of 37 in my area - what are they smoking cuz it sure ain't tobacco! Freeze warning covers the entire state except Homestead and points south. Hard freeze predicted in most of it. I didn't have a chance to do any protection of anything, although my husband wrapped the spindle, the bottle, and my two-trunked lutescens with Christmas lights. Dunno how much good that'll do since they're the little twinkly ones, not the big (warmer) ones. Oh, and a couple of old floodlights And there are about 35 plants in my little house, getting crowded in here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobra2326 59 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 What's up with the readings from McDill AFB? It's reading 34F @ 9PM, which is the NWS point forecast low for the base!!!??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spockvr6 28 Report post Posted January 22, 2009 Guys and Gals.....today was the most unbelievable thing my weather station has ever logged......a high of 46F!?!?!? Unreal! And at 9PM tonight, Im already down to 39F! The skies are crystal clear and the air is dead calm. I surely hope something changes by morning or it might be awful ugly out there! Larry, I'm sure that was a record cold maximum. Was Tampa as cold? I wish a coastal wind would develop for all the palm growers tonight. No wind at all over here right now Happ! Im sure this 46F had to be a record low high. Tampa AP shows a high of 51F today, but I hardly believe it. I was over there right by the airport all day, and it was flat out cold and my car thermometer never read anything in the 50's, even when I drove right through Tampa Bay on the causeway to Pinellas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
