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Utopia Palms

New Dypsis and other unseen species

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Utopia Palms

Hi All

I thought you all might like to see some Great habitat photos of some unseen species so i will start with a Dypsis that many would know as Highland redneck as Mike explained (in another topic) this species starts out looking just like a Dypsis lastelliana seedling, in fact it would be very hard to tell these two species apart "as seedlings" if they were ever mixed together, once they are a little older this species Dypsis sp "hovitrendrina" soon starts to produce lots of white tomentum on it's petioles so you then could tell it apart from the true D.lastelliana, i should list some cultivated plants of this species here as well so all can see what these look like from seedlings through to these mature palms in habitat, like many of the dypsis they are constantly changing from a seedling thru to a mature Palms, in there habitat they... Do Not come from high elevation but from "about" 300 to 400m above sea level, Dypsis lastelliana can be found growing in this same area.

So the name Dypsis sp "Highland redneck" is not correct or appropriate for this species..!

The name these have now been called by the collectors is Dypsis sp hovitrendrina, this is not a described species!!

So here are some photo's I hope you like them as this is the first time "Anyone" has seen this species as a mature palm in habitat before..! Besides a few Madagascan collectors. :):rolleyes:

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Utopia Palms

And here are some photo's of some cultivated plants of the sand species in a few different sizes.

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Utopia Palms

A few last photo's and then i will go on to a new species in the next few days. :)

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Daryl

That sure is a sweet looking palm Clayton!

I just wish it wasn't so slow here...

Daryl

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Tyrone

Thanks for that Clayton. A very interesting post.

Best regards

Tyrone

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BS Man about Palms

Who hoo! In maybe another 15-20 years I'll really have something!!! :D

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neoflora

Thanks, Clayton! Good to hear from you again. Keep them coming.

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JEFF from Trabuco Canyon CA

Great pictures Clayton! Looking forward to your next post.

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LJG

I love this stuff. :) Madagascar never stops surprising. That first palm picture is amazing.

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Ntheastpalms

Thanks Clayton, excellent photos.

Its always interesting to see how Dypsis species change as they grow.

Like Daryl said, its a shame that they are so slow growing.

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ariscott

Hi Clayton,

Good to see you are posting again. Things are slowing down a bit for you now?? Or still flat out like usual?? Anyway, are they faster growing in the tropics? Nice palms... maybe when I have more protection, which I will soon looking at the growth in my garden lately. This has been a GOOD growing year... for palms and trees.

Daryl,

Are they the ones at the local nursery here?? That is probably why they were labelled as lastelliana??

Regards, Ari :)

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Walter John

I bet nobody else has been foolish like me and planted 5 in the same hole.

Thanks mate and I like everyone else do look forward to more, did you get a new keyboard for christmas or something ? :lol:

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bgl

Clayton,

Thanks for posting these photos. That's a great looking palm! I particularly like the look of the one in the first photo (post #1). :)

Bo-Göran

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Daryl
Hi Clayton,

Good to see you are posting again. Things are slowing down a bit for you now?? Or still flat out like usual?? Anyway, are they faster growing in the tropics? Nice palms... maybe when I have more protection, which I will soon looking at the growth in my garden lately. This has been a GOOD growing year... for palms and trees.

Daryl,

Are they the ones at the local nursery here?? That is probably why they were labelled as lastelliana??

Regards, Ari :)

Hi Ari, the ones at your local nursery are the white petiole sp sold elsewhere as D.tsaratanensis

regards,

Daryl

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ariscott

Cool Daryl... thanks. Something to get the next payday....lol. BTW, did you get my email??

Regards, Ari :)

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rthink

Clayton,

Thank you for the pictures. It looks really nice. Looking forward to see more.

and Happy new year!

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Utopia Palms

Hi all

Glad you liked the photo’s it’s taken a long time to get them and there are quite a few other species to come,

Yes this species grows much faster in the tropics..! Dean listed a great photo of one in a garden in Hawaii in another topic (Bo and Jeff’s Madagascan topic) but still even though they grow slower in the subtropics this could be a benefit as they hold that “mealy bug” look for much longer than those in the tropics..!

Dean could you move that photo over now please.

Bill the palm you have there is not this species, Note that with this species that it has a very long petiole before the leaves start as a juvenile, I would need to see a few more photo’s of what you have there to try to work out what it might be..?

Hi Ari

Yes I sent up about 400 or 500 to a nursery up there in Darwin, “Darwin plant wholesalers” they should have the correct name on them; they should also have some Caryota zebrina and a few other nice things there as well Ari. So have a look they should have some there you don’t have far to go and they are going to look great in years to come, I think they would have grown faster if I had planted mine out in the full sun..! So try some out in the full sun they might need a little protection at first say for the first 12 months or so, then let them Go….

They will grow very well for you especially if you put some in now just before the Big wet season really gets under way…!

Wal that’s what you get from your keyboard when your half asleep, I must not post at midnight..! I don’t remember doing that so I might have been a sleep actually! and here it is midnight again and i'm posting look out..!

Bo, these are all the same species, except for the one Bill listed in post 6, it just shows you that these species firstly go through many changes before there mature and the different light and growing conditions can also make these look quite different to each other even in the same habitat. But the one growing in full sun with no other plants around them seems to have more of a white crownshaft and the other ones with a little more protection from the sun, seem to have slightly darker tomentum.

Hi Khun Think all the best for 2009, I hope all your palms grow twice there size this year..!

Ok here is one more habitat photo of this species.

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Utopia Palms

And a few more cultivated photos of the same species just growing in the shade, these are the same age as the one that Dean listed growing in Hawaii so you can see a big difference in size from the tropics to the subtropics.

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BS Man about Palms

Hi Clayton,

I strongly suspect the palm I posted in post#6 IS the same palm you described. It was the quickest pic I could find and it was/is pushing out the same leaf.

Heres a pic of when I got it from a nursery, only to overwinter in another greenhouse. As you can see, very long petioles. (another pic next post)

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BS Man about Palms

With this closeup of the petiole, I think it should confirm it.

Clayton, could you confirm this?

My apologies for the poor representation pic earlier.

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Utopia Palms

Dypsis angustifolia broad leaf form, now here is a form of a species that does not live up to its name.!

This Palm has been sold under the Name Dypsis louvelii, there are a few species that as seedlings it's very hard to impossible to tell apart from Dypsis louvelii, here are just a few the first is Dypsis Pulchella with this species even when they are mature it's near impossible to tell this species from louvelii unless you look at the flowers and the stamens, then you have Dypsis mocquerysana these look very simular as small plants as well. Then we have Dypsis angustifolia this seems to have at least two forms the thin leaf form as listed in Palms of Madagascar and a broader leaf form, which can have a reddish new leaf as well...! This is what has been sold as Louvelii in the last few years so you just might want to check your plants, unfortunately you will not be able to tell that it's not Louvelii until they start to clump, and then once they flower you can be 100% sure of what you have, so i will list some photos here of the inflorescence of Dypsis angustifolia and some of the habitat photos of the mature plants so all can see what these plants are going to grow into, not all of these will have new reddish new leaves but they will all clump and they do all look to be this broader leaf form, which I thought was lost quite a few years back when a large section of bush was cleared with this broad leaf form in it, but this form although I only have a few plants from this old locality did not seem to have this new red leaf like the ones from this new locality.

So here are some habitat photos of Dypsis angustifolia with the broad leaves and also a new red leaf on some plants.

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Utopia Palms
And a few more cultivated photos of the same species just growing in the shade, these are the same age as the one that Dean listed growing in Hawaii so you can see a big difference in size from the tropics to the subtropics.

Yes that's it Bill it just must have been that first photo that made it look different..! :winkie:

How come that one did not make it in the ground in that last planting.. :) They take a little time to adjust to the sun but i now think this is what they need to grow the best, full sun.

Clayton.

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Here are some seedlings of this red new leaf from of Dypsis angustifolia; you can see why they look so simular to dypsis louvelii now.

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Utopia Palms

This is the first broad leaf form of Dypsis angustifolia from the old locality that was cleared years ago, this form does not make a new red new leaf.

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Utopia Palms

Dypsis angustifolia, this is the true form with thin entire bifid leaves, which the species was named after, that always has a green new leaf with this form. This species has an inflorescence simular to that of some of the Calyptrocalyx... being that it can have up to what looks like 4 sperate peduncle/rachilla emerging from behind each leaf sheath which are joined at the base of the inflorescence (see photo), like what is seen in some of the calyptrocalyx species.

It's a very easy species to grow and has quite thick leaves so it would probably tolerate colder conditions than it receives here with temps down to 2 to 3C, and still looks like it is actively growing in our winter months, this plant is quite old so they do not take up much room and could be grown as an indoor potted plant for most of it's life in the right conditions with out any problems, much like a Chamaedorea palm.

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Utopia Palms

Here are a few more habitat photo's of Dypsis angustifolia. :) More photo's soon...!

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ariscott
Hi Ari

Yes I sent up about 400 or 500 to a nursery up there in Darwin, “Darwin plant wholesalers” they should have the correct name on them; they should also have some Caryota zebrina and a few other nice things there as well Ari. So have a look they should have some there you don’t have far to go and they are going to look great in years to come, I think they would have grown faster if I had planted mine out in the full sun..! So try some out in the full sun they might need a little protection at first say for the first 12 months or so, then let them Go….

They will grow very well for you especially if you put some in now just before the Big wet season really gets under way…!

Cool... thanks Clayton. I wonder whether they will filter out to Bunnings :blink: , as they supply Bunnings and other nursery in town....lol. I have been there a few times, so I might give them a call and see whether they are for sale yet....

BTW, those little dypsises are growing on me after seeing them in Townsville. They are definitely in my list what to get once I have more canopy... which is going to be the end of the wet season at this rate. Everything is GROWING so fast at the moment!!!

Regards, Ari :)

Edited by ariscott

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deezpalms

Very nice Clayton!!

Wanna send any of these to cali????????? :drool:

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Walter John
Everything is GROWING so fast at the moment!!!

Regards, Ari :)

Hi Ari, this is very tempting to us down here in the sub tropics and lower climates, I/we hope to see some photos soon. :drool:

Thanks Clayton for this info, and a tip from Wal, don't eat after midnight, otherwise the gremlins take over your keyboard... :lol:

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MattyB

Great stuff Clayton! Thanks.

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newcal

Hi Clayton and a Happy New Year as well.So Clayton those Dypsis at last year's Pacsoa show labelled as D.louvelii are the 'real deal' or are they now D.angustifolia? Also could you put aside a couple of those Hydriastele sps that we saw up on the side of the hill when the Ratpack last visited. I think you said you had them in 12'' pots for memory sake and bring them along to this year's show and i'll fix you up for them on the day if thats ok! ...Cheers Mike Green (Newcal) PS how much are they?

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BS Man about Palms
And a few more cultivated photos of the same species just growing in the shade, these are the same age as the one that Dean listed growing in Hawaii so you can see a big difference in size from the tropics to the subtropics.

Yes that's it Bill it just must have been that first photo that made it look different..! :winkie:

How come that one did not make it in the ground in that last planting.. :) They take a little time to adjust to the sun but i now think this is what they need to grow the best, full sun.

Clayton.

Actually Clayton, that baby is coming up on 6 months in the ground now! :D You can see the thread link below, although I should post an update. The "spear" seen in the thread is the "opening" leaf you see on post 6 above. As of now, it has probably 12" or more of petiole, but I have not seen the new spear yet.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=12926

I like the little cute Dypsis you added too!

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ariscott
Hi Clayton and a Happy New Year as well.So Clayton those Dypsis at last year's Pacsoa show labelled as D.louvelii are the 'real deal' or are they now D.angustifolia? Also could you put aside a couple of those Hydriastele sps that we saw up on the side of the hill when the Ratpack last visited. I think you said you had them in 12'' pots for memory sake and bring them along to this year's show and i'll fix you up for them on the day if thats ok! ...Cheers Mike Green (Newcal) PS how much are they?

Shopping again, Mike?? LOL. I thought you were doing Australian section....

Regards, Ari :)

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newcal

What can i say Ari, if it looks good and grows at Clayton's without much attention, then i'm hooked especially since it's growing in full sun on a dry hill and looks fantastic! Any chance of a photo Clayton?....Cheers Mike Green (Newcal)

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Utopia Palms
And a few more cultivated photos of the same species just growing in the shade, these are the same age as the one that Dean listed growing in Hawaii so you can see a big difference in size from the tropics to the subtropics.

Yes that's it Bill it just must have been that first photo that made it look different..! :winkie:

How come that one did not make it in the ground in that last planting.. :) They take a little time to adjust to the sun but i now think this is what they need to grow the best, full sun.

Clayton.

Actually Clayton, that baby is coming up on 6 months in the ground now! :D You can see the thread link below, although I should post an update. The "spear" seen in the thread is the "opening" leaf you see on post 6 above. As of now, it has probably 12" or more of petiole, but I have not seen the new spear yet.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=12926

I like the little cute Dypsis you added too!

Looking Good Bill and don’t worry about the mulch the more the better and the less work you will have to do, here in our climate if I put down 12” of mulch it takes about 4 years to break down before it needs replacing or the weeds will start to take over again, if it’s a tropical species or should I say if it’s not a desert dry aroid species you should have no problems with any rotting or fungal problems, Just steady growth, although you might need to add a little more fert under the mulch depending on the type of mulch your using but that’s about it, much easier than that container ranch!!

That one looks to be the same age as the ones I have listed in post 19, so this possibly is the same age as the one I will list here now in Hawaii just to show how they do grow that much faster in the tropics, as this was the first time this species was collected and it was not collected for at least 5 or 6 years after this maybe a little longer.

Ps Bill I did try to quote your post but some how it quoted my one from above so I just left it. :hmm:

So here is a photo of this species in Pauline Sullivan Garden in Hawaii, I think Jeff Marcus gave these palms to Pauline, which he bought back from Australia from Curt Butterfield as seedlings, which was from this first batch of seed.

And one more Photo of one that I think to be the same species growing in Cairns all the same age.

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Utopia Palms
Hi Clayton and a Happy New Year as well.So Clayton those Dypsis at last year's Pacsoa show labelled as D.louvelii are the 'real deal' or are they now D.angustifolia? Also could you put aside a couple of those Hydriastele sps that we saw up on the side of the hill when the Ratpack last visited. I think you said you had them in 12'' pots for memory sake and bring them along to this year's show and i'll fix you up for them on the day if thats ok! ...Cheers Mike Green (Newcal) PS how much are they?

Hi Mike Yes if you picked up one of those louvelii this is what they are Dypsis angustifolia, I knew something was going on with them as I had put aside some that only had green new leaves, and then I found one or two starting to clump..! By this time I thought I had mixed in some mocquerysana and I was going a little crazy trying to tell them apart..! Then I received the habitat photos and I worked out what had been going on, it’s just that I had not seen a Dypsis angustifolia form with a red new leaf before, not that you can tell them apart at that size but I would have still been thinking they were mocquerysana even now if I had not seen the photos of the plants and the inflorescence, then it all made sense. :blink:

I do have louvelii here but I will get to those soon as they were collected under another name and they are going to be very hard to tell apart, Wal picked up a few last time he was here..! :)

I will go and have a look at those Hydriastele spp for you when I get a chance give me a week or so as we are a bit busy at the moment that’s why I have been posting late at night. And the trick with them looking good on that Dry hill is all that mulch..!

Clayton.

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ariscott
Looking Good Bill and don’t worry about the mulch the more the better and the less work you will have to do, here in our climate if I put down 12” of mulch it takes about 4 years to break down before it needs replacing or the weeds will start to take over again, if it’s a tropical species or should I say if it’s not a desert dry aroid species you should have no problems with any rotting or fungal problems, Just steady growth, although you might need to add a little more fert under the mulch depending on the type of mulch your using but that’s about it, much easier than that container ranch!!

How can mulch last for 4 years???? We would be lucky if ours last for a year... usually we mulch twice a year.

Regards, Ari :)

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Utopia Palms

Hi Ari,

Well you can not have the best of both worlds Ari, your palms grow much faster than our ones down here and your mulch brakes down much faster than what it would down here, but I do put it down very thick remember..! :)

Ps i would not mind if my palms grew as fast as they did in Cairns but i don’t think i could afford such a large garden or keep up with all the weeding!! :blink:

All the best Ari.

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Davidl

Clayton I know very little about dypsis but those are some very nice pics.

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