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Eric in Orlando

Coconut and Royal palms in Daytona Beach, FL

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Eric in Orlando

I went over to Daytona Beach for the day. It was warm but cloudy and rainy until late afternoon. I drove around look for tropical specimens.

The coconuts at the Ocean Center are gone. There is some construction/expansion going on and the palms have been removed so didn't get to see them. Didn't see any coconuts or royals until I got to the south end of the barrier island at Ponce Inlet. It is much warmer down there than 10 miles north in DB. It is a solid zone 9b, probably close to 10a in between big freezes. Quite a few Ficus 10-20ft tall, 10ft+ seagrapes, etc. Also some coconuts and royals have been planted in the last 10 years.

Eric

Orlando,FL

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Eric in Orlando

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Eric in Orlando

Also a few royals.

There was also a nice Bottle Palm, Hyophorbe lagenicaulis

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These were in an exposed location just off the beach and had salt burn

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Palmy

Very nice pictures. I thought Daytona was 9A, guess not, has to be 9B with coco's growing. I thought it was much further down than daytona. Thats pretty far north.

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Eric in Orlando

Mainland Daytona would be 9a borderline 9b. Daytona Beach is warmer, being on the barrier island. It is 9b, 10-12 miles outh at the tip of the island is Ponce Inlet. It is definitely 9b and borderline 10a.

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Exotic Life

Great pictures, thanks for sharing. Cocos and Royal palms are so tropical to see...

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Eric in Orlando

Hopefully they will last for awhile.

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bubba

Eric,I have not been to Daytona in some time but I do remember what looked like a Coconut palm growing in the wild on the Daytona end of Ponce Inlet. I also remember seeing a couple of Christmas Tree palms(Manillians) near a Marina at the very Southend.

Obviously,it has become much more tropical.I also remember when the Mangroves were frozen out by the 1989 freeze.Thank you for the pictures.They definitely got my attention!

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epicure3

Eric, did you see any of the coconuts with mature fruit?

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Jimbean

I drove out there once. I did see some coconut palms that were near maturity around the New Symerta Beach area, and one good size juvenile royal. I also seen some Brassaia actinophylla and papaya that were mature and reproducing.

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gsn
Obviously,it has become much more tropical.I also remember when the Mangroves were frozen out by the 1989 freeze.Thank you for the pictures.They definitely got my attention!

Bubba,

Those mangroves still haven't come back real strong after that 1989 freeze.

But it is partially due to the damn Brazilian pepper trees taking their habitat! :rage:

It is tropical, but unfortunately it is only a matter of time before alot of these borderline palms cease to exist. But they can be enjoyed while they last here in nanook of the north country!

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Eric in Orlando
Eric, did you see any of the coconuts with mature fruit?

No, didn't see any mature fruit but several had small immature coconuts.

I just discovered a good sized coconut palm not far from my house in a backyard. You can barely get a good view but it is bearing mature coconuts. I need to stop and get a photo.

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Eric in Orlando

I still remember for several years after the 12/89 freeze, all the driftwood from dead mangroves and buttonwood you could find on the beach.

The mangroves are growing back, they are maybe 6-8ft tall at Ponce Inlet. Southern Volusia Co. is the northern limit of red and white mangroves. The black mangroves is found up to about St. Augustine. I walked around the inlet to where the mangroves were, got some photos.

Rhizophora mangle- Red Mangrove

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Laguncularia racemosa- White Mangrove

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Avicennia germinans- Black Mangrove

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Obviously,it has become much more tropical.I also remember when the Mangroves were frozen out by the 1989 freeze.Thank you for the pictures.They definitely got my attention!

Bubba,

Those mangroves still haven't come back real strong after that 1989 freeze.

But it is partially due to the damn Brazilian pepper trees taking their habitat! :rage:

It is tropical, but unfortunately it is only a matter of time before alot of these borderline palms cease to exist. But they can be enjoyed while they last here in nanook of the north country!

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palmmermaid

I have a friend who recently built a house in Port Orange. I took her 10 3-gallon coconuts last winter and they have made it so far. She is planting a lot of tropicals. She sends me a list and I pick up the plants and she plants them. So far, so good.

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Walt

Things sure have changed. When I was in the U.S. Navy ('67-'71) and stationed at Charleston, S.C., we recieved the great news that our ship was changing home ports to Key West, Florida.

I had a car (1969 Dodge Dart Swinger 340 cubic inch). The navy would ship my car to Key West gratis but I decided to drive down. Only ever having been as far south as Jacksonville, I decided to see just where the first coconut palms I could find while driving southward. I took A1A all the way to Miami.

As hard as I looked I only saw my first coconut palms just north of Stuart -- and I was looking hard, mainly along the east side of A1A. I spent the night at a motel in Stuart. They had some taller coconut palms with small fruits on them. That evening I drove over to a seafood restaurant on Hutchinson Island and had a nice blue crab cake dinner for $5.00 (This was June of 1970). I recall lots of huge royal palms around the restaurant.

But the thing I recall is how barren the barrier islands were at that time. I was really unimpressed, as I was expecting to see coconut palms all over the place.

Another thing I wasn't aware of at the time was the dwarf coconut palms. I thought they should all be tall like the ones in the south Pacific. Of course, there were some very tall ones in Key West. I especially remember tall ones on the grounds of the Key West Sheriff's Department. We had an Hawian guy on my ship that could climb them with ease.

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mnorell

I just did a quick climate-check on Daytona Beach for the Int'l Airport there (KDAB). According to wunderground (they had no data for 2000), if you take the last 20 years of record (1988 through 2008) you'll find the following:

Average annual minimum temp: 29.5

Extreme low annual minimum: 21F (1989)

Extreme high annual minimum: 37F (1990)

The minimum has been 28f or below nine times out of 20, and 32 or above six times out of 20.

Examining the Period-of-record summary from the Southeast Climate Center (1948-2008):

December January February

Average Min 50 47.6 49.4

Mean Temp 60.2 58.3 59.9

Average Max 70.4 68.9 70.4

All-time low: 15F (21 Jan 1985)

Those January mean temperatures put them dangerously on the brink of coconut failure if you use a 60F January isotherm as a benchmark.

Not sure what the temperature difference is typically between the airport and the coast and barrier island, but those of you who live in the area would probably be able to do a fairly accurate extrapolation based on usual differences for absolute minima.

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palmislandRandy

Saw this in an old book, huge cocos :drool:

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Dave-Vero

Eric's photos of mangroves say a lot about the effects of occasional freezes. By the way, Brazilian pepper inhabits the fringes of mangrove vegetation in its native range. This pest may perhaps become less aggressive as biological control agents are released.

Vero Beach has undergone something of a coconut explosion over the past nine years. They've been singed by cold weather only once or twice, so some post-1989 plants are getting quite large. The City just planted a bunch of them at the seaward end of State Road 60, along with a bunch of foxtails, which don't seem such a good choice (salt spray). Several gumbo-limbo trees, planted several years ago, were removed.

There's also been a royal palm explosion. Back in 2000, there was still reluctance to replant them after the carnage from the 1980s freezes (never mind that a fair number of royals survived).

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Eric in Orlando
I just did a quick climate-check on Daytona Beach for the Int'l Airport there (KDAB). According to wunderground (they had no data for 2000), if you take the last 20 years of record (1988 through 2008) you'll find the following:

Average annual minimum temp: 29.5

Extreme low annual minimum: 21F (1989)

Extreme high annual minimum: 37F (1990)

The minimum has been 28f or below nine times out of 20, and 32 or above six times out of 20.

Examining the Period-of-record summary from the Southeast Climate Center (1948-2008):

December January February

Average Min 50 47.6 49.4

Mean Temp 60.2 58.3 59.9

Average Max 70.4 68.9 70.4

All-time low: 15F (21 Jan 1985)

Those January mean temperatures put them dangerously on the brink of coconut failure if you use a 60F January isotherm as a benchmark.

Not sure what the temperature difference is typically between the airport and the coast and barrier island, but those of you who live in the area would probably be able to do a fairly accurate extrapolation based on usual differences for absolute minima.

The airport is a couple miles inland. The barrier island is a few degrees warmer in winter at night, especially towards the southern tip which is 8-10 miles further south.

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ck_in_fla
Saw this in an old book, huge cocos :drool:

I own that book having bought it when I was in high school (more than 40 years ago). I was always impressed with that picture.

Thanks for bringing back old memories. I'll have to dig that book out and look through it again.

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_Keith
Saw this in an old book, huge cocos :drool:

I own that book having bought it when I was in high school (more than 40 years ago). I was always impressed with that picture.

Thanks for bringing back old memories. I'll have to dig that book out and look through it again.

What is the name, year, author of the book?

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ck_in_fla
Saw this in an old book, huge cocos :drool:

I own that book having bought it when I was in high school (more than 40 years ago). I was always impressed with that picture.

Thanks for bringing back old memories. I'll have to dig that book out and look through it again.

What is the name, year, author of the book?

This book is still packed away in a box somewhere. Since the fire (12/2004) and subsequent move back into the rebuilt house (10/2006), lots of things remain packed away. But, from memory, I think the book was published in 1961 and is called "Florida Palms". The author is "Beth McGeachy (sp.)", I think. I'm certain it is long out of publication.

But, the picture showing the large mature Cocos in Clearwater Beach remains a vivid memory.

About 10 years ago, I took the wife on a long weekend at the Belleview Biltmore, an old Bed and Breakfast in Clearwater Beach. There are lots of large Royals and Coconuts growing there. This is especially true right along the Gulf. But, they are interspersed everywhere on the barrier island. There are even some medium sized Coconut palms on the approach to the bridge heading east back to the mainland. As long as there is no 1989 type event, zone 10 palms will continue to flourish there.

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tikitiki

Last summer when I was in Seaside Florida I saw a yard with cocos and triangles. It was beach side just east of the market. I bet they are not still there.

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bubba

Coconuts in Seaside! Next it will be Tally!

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Eric in Orlando

That is the first palm book I ever read. My parents moved to FL in11/1979 and I was 11. The book was in the library at school. My next book was Palms of the World, checked it out at the downtown library.

Saw this in an old book, huge cocos :drool:

I own that book having bought it when I was in high school (more than 40 years ago). I was always impressed with that picture.

Thanks for bringing back old memories. I'll have to dig that book out and look through it again.

What is the name, year, author of the book?

This book is still packed away in a box somewhere. Since the fire (12/2004) and subsequent move back into the rebuilt house (10/2006), lots of things remain packed away. But, from memory, I think the book was published in 1961 and is called "Florida Palms". The author is "Beth McGeachy (sp.)", I think. I'm certain it is long out of publication.

But, the picture showing the large mature Cocos in Clearwater Beach remains a vivid memory.

About 10 years ago, I took the wife on a long weekend at the Belleview Biltmore, an old Bed and Breakfast in Clearwater Beach. There are lots of large Royals and Coconuts growing there. This is especially true right along the Gulf. But, they are interspersed everywhere on the barrier island. There are even some medium sized Coconut palms on the approach to the bridge heading east back to the mainland. As long as there is no 1989 type event, zone 10 palms will continue to flourish there.

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Xerarch

Bump... did any of these survive the 2010 freeze? I was just on Cocoa beach over the 4th and was impressed with the quantity and size of the coconuts, I have read many times that Cocoa Beach/Merritt Island is about the northernmost point on Florida's east coast to reliably-ish grow a coconut, Being a borderline area I was pleasantly surprised with numerous fruiting coconuts and other tropical palms. Here is one in Cocoa Beach taken just a couple days ago, These looked so good I hope something might have survived around Daytona


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Xerarch

Photo didn't show up, wonder what I did wrong

Edited by Xerarch

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Xerarch

Here we go

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empireo22

Here we go

attachicon.gifCocoa Coco.JPG

They look so good this year because the winter was so mild this year. Cocoa beach probaly did not go below 40 this winter but just a few miles inland from there they had several days of frost. Did you go to Coconuts while you were there?

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Zeeth

Does anyone know if coconuts and royals will grow in Palm Bay? There's a house about 4 miles from the Indian river that I have access to planting a few palms at and I was wondering if a Jamaican tall coconut might survive. I already have a Beccariophoenix alfredii selected to plant there and am thinking about a royal palm and a Bismarckia as well. I know the B. alfredii and Bismarckia will make it but I don't know how cold they get in the winter, so I'm curious if a coconut or royal would survive.

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empireo22

here is a link for some 2 miles from the river off of palm bay rd. they look better this year after the mild winter.

http://goo.gl/maps/0If0C

4 miles from the river is close to 95, i have seen them in melbourne 4 miles from the river, but during cold winters they will look like the ones in the link.

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Zeeth

here is a link for some 2 miles from the river off of palm bay rd. they look better this year after the mild winter.

http://goo.gl/maps/0If0C

4 miles from the river is close to 95, i have seen them in melbourne 4 miles from the river, but during cold winters they will look like the ones in the link.

Thanks for that pic. The house is almost exactly 4 miles from the river and right next to a canal that connects to the Indian river. Those coconuts look pretty beat up but still alive, do you know if they were there during the bad winters we had a few years ago? I think a Jamaican tall might be able to make it if so, and certainly a royal.

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empireo22

Not a 100% sure, but most likely they were there during the 2010 winter, they actually cut the one down on the right, the one on the left now has a full set of leaves and some fruit that they recently cut off, there is also a coconut in the parking lot across the street in the google street view you can find.

4 miles from the river would be fine for royals but pushing it for coconuts, but it is possible.

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Zeeth

Thanks a lot for the info!

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Xerarch

Here we go

attachicon.gifCocoa Coco.JPG

They look so good this year because the winter was so mild this year. Cocoa beach probaly did not go below 40 this winter but just a few miles inland from there they had several days of frost. Did you go to Coconuts while you were there?

I didn't go to Coconuts, I just saw them all over town at resorts and people's yards. My in-laws live a few miles inland, right off the 95 on the west side, it's amazing how much difference only a few miles make, their neighborhood is almost purely Sabal and Syagrus land. There is one small Adonidia in their neighborhood and it looks like trash. Prior to 2010 I saw Royals and Adonidias that looked good but I think they must have all got nuked because they're all gone now.

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Zeeth

Not a 100% sure, but most likely they were there during the 2010 winter, they actually cut the one down on the right, the one on the left now has a full set of leaves and some fruit that they recently cut off, there is also a coconut in the parking lot across the street in the google street view you can find.

4 miles from the river would be fine for royals but pushing it for coconuts, but it is possible.

Just as an update for anyone curious, I planted a Bismarck, a royal and a B. alfredii at the house, and there are 2 triples of Adonidia already planted there, so I'll update if anything gets damaged. I also saw a mature coconut (no fruit though) 3 houses away from the house I planted everything at, so I'll keep an eye on that to see if I could plant one of those too, as it looks to be post-2010 based off google street view. I did notice that on the barrier island there were a lot of coconut palms, but it seemed that only maybe one or two could have been pre-1989, and none had fruit larger than an apple, so it seems like it's too cool in the winters for proper fruiting.

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empireo22

Not a 100% sure, but most likely they were there during the 2010 winter, they actually cut the one down on the right, the one on the left now has a full set of leaves and some fruit that they recently cut off, there is also a coconut in the parking lot across the street in the google street view you can find.

4 miles from the river would be fine for royals but pushing it for coconuts, but it is possible.

Just as an update for anyone curious, I planted a Bismarck, a royal and a B. alfredii at the house, and there are 2 triples of Adonidia already planted there, so I'll update if anything gets damaged. I also saw a mature coconut (no fruit though) 3 houses away from the house I planted everything at, so I'll keep an eye on that to see if I could plant one of those too, as it looks to be post-2010 based off google street view. I did notice that on the barrier island there were a lot of coconut palms, but it seemed that only maybe one or two could have been pre-1989, and none had fruit larger than an apple, so it seems like it's too cool in the winters for proper fruiting.

Keith,

As far as coconuts fruiting beachside it really depends some coconuts arent healthy and have strange looking fruit others are healthy and produce large viable seed.

If you went to the Botanical Garden in Melbourne off of Babcock st then you probaly saw Andretti thrill park did you see the huge coconuts outside there? That is about 2 miles from the river.

Edited by empireo22

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Zeeth

Not a 100% sure, but most likely they were there during the 2010 winter, they actually cut the one down on the right, the one on the left now has a full set of leaves and some fruit that they recently cut off, there is also a coconut in the parking lot across the street in the google street view you can find.

4 miles from the river would be fine for royals but pushing it for coconuts, but it is possible.

Just as an update for anyone curious, I planted a Bismarck, a royal and a B. alfredii at the house, and there are 2 triples of Adonidia already planted there, so I'll update if anything gets damaged. I also saw a mature coconut (no fruit though) 3 houses away from the house I planted everything at, so I'll keep an eye on that to see if I could plant one of those too, as it looks to be post-2010 based off google street view. I did notice that on the barrier island there were a lot of coconut palms, but it seemed that only maybe one or two could have been pre-1989, and none had fruit larger than an apple, so it seems like it's too cool in the winters for proper fruiting.

Keith,

As far as coconuts fruiting beachside it really depends some coconuts arent healthy and have strange looking fruit others are healthy and produce large viable seed.

If you went to the Botanical Garden in Melbourne off of Babcock st then you probaly saw Andretti thrill park did you see the huge coconuts outside there? That is about 2 miles from the river.

Yes I did see that park! It seemed to me that the ones that had the most fruit were maypans with some Jamaican talls, whereas the malayan dwarves just didn't look very healthy as a whole.

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Dakotafl

Does anyone know if coconuts and royals will grow in Palm Bay? There's a house about 4 miles from the Indian river that I have access to planting a few palms at and I was wondering if a Jamaican tall coconut might survive. I already have a Beccariophoenix alfredii selected to plant there and am thinking about a royal palm and a Bismarckia as well. I know the B. alfredii and Bismarckia will make it but I don't know how cold they get in the winter, so I'm curious if a coconut or royal would survive.

Judging by how severe the 2010 Freeze was, I think Coconuts should be fine, Especially close to the water, of course during the worst winters they get damaged especially more inland, Like the ones on Palm Bay Road, There is one on west Malabar road that did quite well, The parking lot is was in helped alot, There's also a bunch of Royals, Its called Colonial Plaza, The coconut is on the side of BB&T Bank.

Jamaican Tall would be the best choice, Any green variety over the Gold, My Gold was damaged this past year, While the green was untouched, While the temperature wasn't that cold, It was the still air which caused frost.

Royals should not be a problem, There are quite a few around Palm Bay/Melbourne. Look up 1676 Yamada Street, Its a fairly large royal, That picture was taken after the 2010 freeze.

But you know, The bigger they are, The better they withstand the freeze.

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Dakotafl

Sorry for the repeat posts, Also look up 1706 Grant Road, Valkaria, A little closer to the Lagoon but all of these survived.

Another good example of royals is on the corner of Niagara st nw and Aachen Ave nw. Again from the 2010 freeze all recovered great.

Another........740 Raleigh Rd SE Palm Bay, These two Recovered.

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