Hedyscepe canterburyana

[Pivi]

There are two ways of getting this palm.

Germinating seeds or buying a palm.

I'm interested to see you germination photos.

Please write where did you get seeds from, when, and how is plant doing now after 1,2,3 years or more after germinating.

Show seed photos, germination technique, germinated seeds, seedlings...all that you took pictures of.

How long did it take for you to germinate them? How many germinated (%)?

I find it interesting, hope you do too.

Thanks

Edited November 22, 2008 by Pivi

[el-blanco]

Here is one of mine shown from two different angles. I got this as a small 5 gallon about 4 years ago (Phil Bergman gift-THANKS PHIL!)

Jeff

Edited November 22, 2008 by el-blanco

[el-blanco]

[pogobob]

There are two ways of getting this palm.

Germinating seeds or buying a palm.

I'm interested to see you germination photos.

Please write where did you get seeds from, when, and how is plant doing now after 1,2,3 years or more after germinating.

Show seed photos, germination technique, germinated seeds, seedlings...all that you took pictures of.

How long did it take for you to germinate them? How many germinated (%)?

I find it interesting, hope you do too.

Thanks

Hey! That palm looks just like mine, so does the house in the background

[Pivi]

could be... could be... but you don't have ripe seeds at the moment. at least you said so

[pogobob]

could be... could be... but you don't have ripe seeds at the moment. at least you said so

That pic is from last spring, the next crop will be even better this next spring...Stay tuned

[Pivi]

yeah i know it's an old pic. I was just kidding.

Do you have any germination photos, seed photos, photos of germinated seed, seedling growth.... to fill up this topic a bit

Edited November 22, 2008 by Pivi

[pogobob]

No, sorry I can't keep them around long enouph as they are sold as seed every year as soon as they ripen. I have 2 younger trees that are setting seed this year for the 1st time so In the next few years I will triple the output. From initial flowering to ripe red seed takes 2 &1/2 yrs. I've observed that when the tree has 3 or 4 bracts of developing seeds it doesn't flower for a season as it must be quite a job to develope such large seeds.

[pogobob]

Average germination time is 5-6 mo. and 95% germination ...from fresh seed

[Pivi]

I read on rps site user comments about germinating these seeds. One got them to germinate right after soaking.

How fast are they as seedlings? Did anyone on this forum grow them from seed and took photos from time to time?

I soaked the seeds for 1 week, then put in 'baggies' with Vermiculite at room temperature (17-23 celsius). 20% germinated after soaking, another 20% in the first month, then another 50% in the next 2 months. Overall, 90% after 3 months and more to germinate hopefully.

[Urban Rainforest]

No, sorry I can't keep them around long enouph as they are sold as seed every year as soon as they ripen. I have 2 younger trees that are setting seed this year for the 1st time so In the next few years I will triple the output. From initial flowering to ripe red seed takes 2 &1/2 yrs. I've observed that when the tree has 3 or 4 bracts of developing seeds it doesn't flower for a season as it must be quite a job to develope such large seeds.

Pogo, Not sure if your taking preorders now but if so put me down for at least 100 Hedy seed this spring . Pivi, I have purchased Hedy seed twice from Bob and I concur with everything he said about germination rates etc. Fresh seed is the best seed. I just put mine in a com pot in the shade and forget about them. They pop in 5 months with a few stragglers taking a year or more. I have many seedlings from the Mutha tree. Some are slow and some are charging. I don't have any pics of the seedlings but they start out as spikes. Don't look at them every day .

Stevo

[richnorm]

I bought 100 fresh seeds complete with fruit. I understand that these were shipped direct from LHI. Germination in an ice cream container on a bed of moss started within a couple of months at 10 - 20 c but continues over 2 years later. I got around 90% germination but would have got more if I had been more careful with cleaning the seed. I removed the endocarp with a knife and nicked a few seeds in the process. The seedlings are quite variable. Some small and one a double. These runts mostly died and now I am left with about 70 strong plants. Growth rates of seedlings is quite fast or at least they bulk-up quite quickly for here. We get about three leaves a year but each is much bigger than the last. Our growing conditions are pretty much optimal for this palm (unlike most other species!). For example, I recently viewed a plant with six feet of trunk and tons of seeds which had only been in-ground for 10 years from a small plant.

[Pivi]

Great richnorm!

You have any pics of your seeds, germination proces..?

[pogobob]

No, sorry I can't keep them around long enouph as they are sold as seed every year as soon as they ripen. I have 2 younger trees that are setting seed this year for the 1st time so In the next few years I will triple the output. From initial flowering to ripe red seed takes 2 &1/2 yrs. I've observed that when the tree has 3 or 4 bracts of developing seeds it doesn't flower for a season as it must be quite a job to develope such large seeds.

Pogo, Not sure if your taking preorders now but if so put me down for at least 100 Hedy seed this spring . Pivi, I have purchased Hedy seed twice from Bob and I concur with everything he said about germination rates etc. Fresh seed is the best seed. I just put mine in a com pot in the shade and forget about them. They pop in 5 months with a few stragglers taking a year or more. I have many seedlings from the Mutha tree. Some are slow and some are charging. I don't have any pics of the seedlings but they start out as spikes. Don't look at them every day .

Stevo

Steveo, your observations and methods are right on the money for best results! These seeds resent greenhouse conditions, bottomheat, bagging etc, community pots or boxes in the shade with temps of 40 to 85 degrees F and your patience will be rewarded! I've got you on the top of the list bro!

[Dypsisdean]

I've told this story before, but it's worth repeating as I have heard the same from other growers.

There seems to be more variability in the "robustness" of this palm. I bought three 5 gal of the same size and planted all in more or less similar conditions. 15 years later --- one died within two years, one hasn't yet even began to put on trunk, and one has about 6 ft of trunk now, and is an incredibly beautiful palm.

So, moral of the story is --- don't buy just one, as you may get one of the slow pokes. Or if unable to do so, check for good root growth. Or if getting seed, get a bunch.

[Gonzer]

Uh, Bob, could you put me down for one seed? Space's at a premium and if you say 95% success rate then all's I need is one! Por favor mon ami?

[Tyrone]

A few years back I actually rang the nursery at LHI to purchase a couple of hundred seed from them. They were quite positive, gave me all the right info regarding freight etc, said it would be sent in a few weeks etc. Nothing happened. I rang them again, they reassured me they'd send some. They never did. I sent countless emails etc, but anyway. They sent seedlings to a nursery down the road, who I put on to the LHI nursery. That nursery was very kind to sell me 15 seedlings at a good price, and I was happy with my purchase. I've had one seedling just die out of the 15 in my shadehouse, while the ones around them seem to be thriving.

As far a variable growth rates are concerned, in the wild most seeds won't come up, only the strong ones, and besides there is not much real estate on LHI for all the seed to come up in the wild. When we pick the seed, and clean it and give it all the right uniform treatment, even the weaklings which are just really destined for compost, may come up. That's my take on it. So buy a few, and you'll get some beautiful robust growers that you'll never regret growing.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Pivi]

Tyrone did you pay for those seeds that you ordered and never got?

Do you have pics of seedlings you purchased and their growth till now?

Edited November 24, 2008 by Pivi

[BS Man about Palms]

I've told this story before, but it's worth repeating as I have heard the same from other growers.

There seems to be more variability in the "robustness" of this palm. I bought three 5 gal of the same size and planted all in more or less similar conditions. 15 years later --- one died within two years, one hasn't yet even began to put on trunk, and one has about 6 ft of trunk now, and is an incredibly beautiful palm.

So, moral of the story is --- don't buy just one, as you may get one of the slow pokes. Or if unable to do so, check for good root growth. Or if getting seed, get a bunch.

Dean, I have referenced that story of yours more than once. I and some others have taken to refering to some palms as having the "Hedyscepe complex" (or syndrome) In other words not ALL will flourish, some will be awesome and others will damp off relatively easy or languish perpetually. The Mad Fox comes to mind as one of those.

[Tyrone]

Tyrone did you pay for those seeds that you ordered and never got?

Do you have pics of seedlings you purchased and their growth till now?

Pivi, no money left my hand. We didn't quite get that far. But I was a tad annoyed that they didn't want to deal with me after saying that they would. Never mind.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

I never got pics of them in the beggining, but they had one leaf and some had a new spear pushing. Will have to go and take some pics of them as they are now, 18mths 2 years later, when I get some time.

Best regards

tyrone

[tim_brissy_13]

I got 10 seeds from RPS in 2003. 6 have turned out to be robust seedlings (although still slow), 3 are considerably thinner in the stem and petioles and smaller overall, and the real runt of the 10 nly lasted about 3 years. They are nearly 5 ears old, although they haven't been growing much more than a frond per year over the last 2 or 3 years, the robust 6 are 6 leaf seedlings not much more than 1' tall. The other 3 are not much more than half the size. Although they are very slow, like others have mentioned, the more the better, as some of them may speed up as they get older.

[tim_brissy_13]

Here is one of the more robust ones last year (One of the less robust ones can be seen to the left).

[Jonathan]

A few years back I actually rang the nursery at LHI to purchase a couple of hundred seed from them. They were quite positive, gave me all the right info regarding freight etc, said it would be sent in a few weeks etc. Nothing happened. I rang them again, they reassured me they'd send some. They never did. I sent countless emails etc, but anyway. They sent seedlings to a nursery down the road, who I put on to the LHI nursery. That nursery was very kind to sell me 15 seedlings at a good price, and I was happy with my purchase. I've had one seedling just die out of the 15 in my shadehouse, while the ones around them seem to be thriving.

As far a variable growth rates are concerned, in the wild most seeds won't come up, only the strong ones, and besides there is not much real estate on LHI for all the seed to come up in the wild. When we pick the seed, and clean it and give it all the right uniform treatment, even the weaklings which are just really destined for compost, may come up. That's my take on it. So buy a few, and you'll get some beautiful robust growers that you'll never regret growing.

Best regards

Tyrone

Thats odd Tyrone that they didn't get back to you....I found them very helpful.

I ordered some Hedy and Lepidorrachis sprouts (some just germinating, some 50mm long) from Lord Howe in early June this year.

They arrived a week later in perfect condition and are getting along nicely now.

I totally agree with everyone else about variable growth rates, the biggest (of 20) is now about 350mm tall (pushing its third leaf since June!), the smallest barely 100mm, with one leaf still.

I think that the same applies to L. mooreana as well - my biggest (also of 20) is 250mm high now with five narrow bifid leaves and a new spear - the smallest a 1 leaf, 50mm stunted midget with an evil cast in its eye!!!

Hope this gives you some idea of seedling growth rates Pivi. No photos unfortunately.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tyrone]

I don't know what I did Jonathan. They didn't like me in the end. Who knows why. Oh well.

I tried growing L mooreana, and had to bring them into the air conditioning in summer. They grew fine in winter. One summer I forgot and they just melted away.

regards

Tyrone

[Jonathan]

You seem nice enough Tyrone.....!!

Maybe they got frightened by the WA import regs?

Thats sad about your L. mooreana.

[Tyrone]

It's just way too hot here for L mooreana. But what should I have expected, as I'm growing A catechu and a Dwarf Malay now. I can't reasonably expect to grow everything.

Yeah I must have been scary on the phone or something. It wasn't the WA thing (which scares most eastern states suppliers), as they sent a bunch of seedlings to a nursery down the road a couple of months later.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Pivi]

Tyrone, don't know about you but few days before i opened this topic i ordered seeds from the same nursery you're talking about.

Exchanged few emails, payed with credit card. I received seeds today, 6 days after they were sent.

few of them to show:

[pogobob]

Tyrone, don't know about you but few days before i opened this topic i ordered seeds from the same nursery you're talking about.

Exchanged few emails, payed with credit card. I received seeds today, 6 days after they were sent.

few of them to show:

Nice ripe and fresh! put them in a community pot and place them in filtered sun/shade outside and in 4-6 mo. POP...Don't let them dry out...Good luck

[Pivi]

Thanks pogobob!

I planed to put them in 4" deep plastic boxes with lid.

And for potting medium 60% perlite, 40% peat moss.

Temperature around 17-22°C / 62.6 - 71.6F

Would that be ok?

[surferjr]

could be... could be... but you don't have ripe seeds at the moment. at least you said so

Pivi,

I just got some fresh seeds last month and I also have seedlings. But I think this will be an impossible grow for you!

Their not cheap either.

All the best,

clark

[Pivi]

Clark, why do you think imposible?

I'm not in continental climate, i'm on an island in adriatic sea, zone 9b/10a.

Minimum temperature last winter 2008, one night with few hours of 30.4F

Only one more night with temperature belowe zero 0°C, it was a very short period of 31F

Winter before that (winter 2007, when you had very low temperatures there in CA) was here even hotter than winter 2008.

Expected minimum temperature (possibility) once in 10 years 24F

Climate is pretty similar to the one you have there in south CA regarding minimum temperatures.

ps. who did you get seeds from?

thanks for posting a pic. How old is that one?

Edited November 26, 2008 by Pivi

[surferjr]

Clark, why do you think imposible? They like cool weather.

I'm not in continental climate, i'm on an island in adriatic sea, zone 9b/10a. Which is TOO HOT

Minimum temperature last winter 2008, one night with few hours of 30.4F They can handle below freezing for some time! I think they like it!

Expected minimum temperature (possibility) once in 10 years 24F These palms opens leafs at these temps in my yard....they likes it cool!

Climate is pretty similar to the one you have there in south CA regarding minimum temperatures. There are alot of Southern Cal Climates and many these this palm dislikes.

I think it best to direct you in the no risk direction, you need the sure bet palms!

ps. who did you get seeds from? Fat chance

[Pivi]

Yes i agree with you, but south california is even hotter than we are.

You do maybe have (that would need to be checked) some lower night temperatures in summer. (as i heard...)

My location is 30-100 meters from the sea, i guess this palm should like it.

Sure bet palms...yes. But i cannot know if hedyscepe will like our summer months if i don't try. Not just this palm, but many others.

I asked you how old is that palm on your pic?

ps. who did you get seeds from?

Fat chance

Edited November 26, 2008 by Pivi

[pogobob]

Thanks pogobob!

I planed to put them in 4" deep plastic boxes with lid.

And for potting medium 60% perlite, 40% peat moss.

Temperature around 17-22°C / 62.6 - 71.6F

Would that be ok?

Pivi... I have always had MUCH better germination outside and with no lids, covers etc. I think they appreciate the temperature swings daily and fresh air. Iv'e ben growing them for 31yrs and tried many methods...Good luck

[Charles Wychgel]

Pivi just go ahead and try them they do grow for me and I also have a maritime influenced climate that can be warmer than San Diego.

Can you give it enough water though; I am very mean with water as I do not want to deplete my well so growth rate is rather slow.

Here is a pic of my 2, eight years old Hedyscepe.

Now Lepidorrachis... that is a difficult one for me but I have finally succeeded in keeping a seedling in the ground alive for one year

[niftinfiftin]

Clark, why do you think imposible? They like cool weather.

I'm not in continental climate, i'm on an island in adriatic sea, zone 9b/10a. Which is TOO HOT

Minimum temperature last winter 2008, one night with few hours of 30.4F They can handle below freezing for some time! I think they like it!

Expected minimum temperature (possibility) once in 10 years 24F These palms opens leafs at these temps in my yard....they likes it cool!

Climate is pretty similar to the one you have there in south CA regarding minimum temperatures. There are alot of Southern Cal Climates and many these this palm dislikes.

I think it best to direct you in the no risk direction, you need the sure bet palms!

ps. who did you get seeds from? Fat chance

Clark,

I been following this thread for a couple of weeks, I don't think its fair for you to say some of these things to Pivi, sure suggestions are fine. We need to encourage the worldwide distribution of palms, not limit it . How do you know what palms are going to survive if they are never tried . To me, it sounds like as good a place as ever to try hedyscepe. These palms grow fine, and flourish north of Auckland in NZ, where they would never see frost. Pivi, Ill post some pics of my hedyscepes some time soon. And Clark don't take this the wrong way, I mean well - really, and respect your opinion. From the few pictures I've seen, I am a great fan of what you have done in your garden .

Regards,

Nathan

[niftinfiftin]

Pivi just go ahead and try them they do grow for me and I also have a maritime influenced climate that can be warmer than San Diego.

Can you give it enough water though; I am very mean with water as I do not want to deplete my well so growth rate is rather slow.

Here is a pic of my 2, eight years old Hedyscepe.

Now Lepidorrachis... that is a difficult one for me but I have finally succeeded in keeping a seedling in the ground alive for one year

They look great Charles, nice and healthy!

[Tyrone]

Pivi, you'll grow them fine, just keep them moist. I grow them here and I'm hotter than Southern California in summer. You're close to the ocean with obviously high humidity, and lower peak temps than me, 18km inland on a large very hot continent.

I'm glad you got some seed from LHI. Maybe that nursery was scared that I would grow lots of them and cut LHI out for seed production of this species. I did order 200 seed. In addition I'm at exactly the same latitude as LHI, so they probably felt a bit threatened. LHI can't just start growing other species when there market gets taken over by others. The Netherlands is the biggest producer of Howeas in the world, so I expect that they don't want anyone taking there Hedyscepe away.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Pivi]

Pogobob, Charles, Nelson & tyrone, thanks for your comments.

Pogobob, unfortunately i can't put them outside because it's winter here now and temperatures go to 41F/5°C these days and will go even lower next month and in January.

So that's the reason i have have to keep them inside to germinate.