BANNED MEMBERS

[MattyB]

Well said Jason, thanks. Now where did I put my diaper?

[Jeff Searle]

Well said Jason, thanks. Now where did I put my diaper?

Any chance it was left at The Dewd's (Paul's)house over the weekend?

Jeff

[MattyB]

There is a chance, perhaps.

[Phil]

Group,

I first read this thread on Monday and have found it quite troubling and disheartening. If one with his known identity makes comments against the rules of this group, he will be reprimanded or perhaps banned. We do have rules to follow with this Group.

But, to do this under a disguise or fictitious character is more alarming. It's far more deceptive and premeditated. I figure there's three reasons one would do this:

1. To present inflamatory comments or viewpoints and to remain hidden and not be held accountable for it. The goal is to not be recognized.

2. To bolster one's own viewpoint or business by falsely showing support by fictitious people created by the concealed individual.

3. To slime or criticize another or their business without being named the accuser, or to rally support against another.

No matter how you look at it, it shows a real lack of integrity of the person who does it. If one wants to say something, follow the rules and take responsibility for what you say. Don't hide behind a mask. Don't conceal who you are or what your motives are. Interestingly, causing havoc or chaos behind the guise of a mask is a form of terrorism. Think about it.

The reason all this troubles me is because I very much dislike this behavior infiltrating our group.

I applaud Dean for doing the right thing and having the perception allowing him to unearth these deeds.

Phil

[gsn]

Group,

I first read this thread on Monday and have found it quite troubling and disheartening. If one with his known identity makes comments against the rules of this group, he will be reprimanded or perhaps banned. We do have rules to follow with this Group.

But, to do this under a disguise or fictitious character is more alarming. It's far more deceptive and premeditated. I figure there's three reasons one would do this:

1. To present inflamatory comments or viewpoints and to remain hidden and not be held accountable for it. The goal is to not be recognized.

2. To bolster one's own viewpoint or business by falsely showing support by fictitious people created by the concealed individual.

3. To slime or criticize another or their business without being named the accuser, or to rally support against another.

No matter how you look at it, it shows a real lack of integrity of the person who does it. If one wants to say something, follow the rules and take responsibility for what you say. Don't hide behind a mask. Don't conceal who you are or what your motives are. Interestingly, causing havoc or chaos behind the guise of a mask is a form of terrorism. Think about it.

The reason all this troubles me is because I very much dislike this behavior infiltrating our group.

I applaud Dean for doing the right thing and having the perception allowing him to unearth these deeds.

Phil

Phil,

I couldn't have said it any better or more eloquently, well put, and I agree with you 110%

One could take the opinion that this is all very funny and amusing on a certain level,(count me as guilty) but as Phil stated it really isn't!

Edited November 12, 2008 by gsn

[paulgila]

thanks phil for expressing so eloquently & rationally what i'm sure alot of us have been thinking since this came to light.

[PALM MOD]

Phil,

Thanks for your moment of seriousness. As you have witnessed, I did take the behavior you outlined seriously, for many of the same reasons you mentioned. However, I was also equally disheartened because I expended considerable time and effort trying to work with the guilty parties, and bent over backwards, so as not to do what I felt necessary.

But I have to express that I am also distressed that there are quite a few PalmTallk members who don't realize or recognize, as you did, the seriousness of the matter. And that they can find reasons to make jokes and engage in lighthearted banter that trivializes these incidents.

Because of the action I took, I fear that I have lost friends. And I know there are others who feel I was overbearing, unreasonable, biased, and a killjoy among other things. And when members can kid around and make light of the whole incident, it only supports the attitude of those that that were suspended, and their supporters, that it's only fun and games, and it's always the big bad heavy-handed Moderator trying to spoil the fun.

[palmazon]

Warning: (for those old enough to remember) I'm having a Jerry Maguire moment...

The more I interact on this board, the more I've come to regard us all as emissaries of the 'palm world' - when newcomers or other interested parties drop in, they view 'our' world through this portal; if they read a bunch of rancorous nonsense, in all likelihood, they'll be turned off. In the parlance of surfing, it's analogous to when 'locals' take over a break and resort to all kinds of mayhem to keep 'outsiders' out. What they fail to comprehend is the world beyond follows its own bent, and while that behavior is expected of a child, it's nauseating in a 20+ year-old. Another instance: Lotusland hosts a palm society meeting during which some dirtbag steals some of their cycads - for Lotusland, the message is never again open your doors to that organization. I'm no saint - I've overstepped boundaries here, but I try to develop and improve (especially in this business of palm growing - which makes fools of us all).

[BS Man about Palms]

Danny, I have to agree. In short, the overall message of what has transpired here is far more clear to those that do not post here than to the ones that post regularly.

[Pivi]

We're lucky that we have members that reported fake personas, and Dean who took action when it was reported.

[joe_OC]

Danny, I have to agree. In short, the overall message of what has transpired here is far more clear to those that do not post here than to the ones that post regularly.

Bill, you say this here, but don't you think you trivialized the whole matter by joking about it and posting a pic of one of the guilty party "incarcerated" to his tree?

[palmmermaid]

Dean,

I certainly don't envy you the job of being the moderator. It is sort of like being a school teacher with first graders.

Itr is certainly a serious matter and Phil was right and stated it very well. I would have been more blunt and to the point but that's just me. People who hide behind a false identity are cowards and liars and should be treated as such.

Thanks for keeping us on the straight path - not an easy job.

[BS Man about Palms]

Danny, I have to agree. In short, the overall message of what has transpired here is far more clear to those that do not post here than to the ones that post regularly.

Bill, you say this here, but don't you think you trivialized the whole matter by joking about it and posting a pic of one of the guilty party "incarcerated" to his tree?

As I left for work, I realised maybe I should have stated I was a bit guilty myself. But as it may be obvious, and one can refer to my post, I "post regularly".

It will have to remain each individual's appraisal as to how much "damage" was done. For me, I attempt to diffuse situations I feel uncomfortable in with humor.

[Phil]

And Bill,

Everyone always appreciates you and your humor. Don't change.

Phil

[BS Man about Palms]

And Bill,

Everyone always appreciates you and your humor. Don't change.

Phil

Thanks Phil

[gsn]

While what has happened is serious, I think alot of people use humour to express their feelings/perceptions about things that bother/frustrate them.

You must admit that is somewhat entertaining,and humorous, to go back and reread some of the threads that larabie,cuckoo,and ken posted on.

To see how ridiculous they sound interacting with their real alter egos, and others in the forum,especially knowing who they are now.

Another thing that Bill said, that made me really think hard was his post about what does it say that we can fill almost an entire page with STUMPHEADS,but most of them aren't even REAL people. Most of those stumpheads are fictious, created by real forum members,who after their 2 week suspension will be back posting once again,while their fake identities will forever remain stumpheaded. This troubles me more than the humour,jabs, and jokes made about the whole affair!

Edited November 14, 2008 by gsn

[Jeff in St Pete]

Phil,

Thanks for your moment of seriousness. As you have witnessed, I did take the behavior you outlined seriously, for many of the same reasons you mentioned. However, I was also equally disheartened because I expended considerable time and effort trying to work with the guilty parties, and bent over backwards, so as not to do what I felt necessary.

But I have to express that I am also distressed that there are quite a few PalmTallk members who don't realize or recognize, as you did, the seriousness of the matter. And that they can find reasons to make jokes and engage in lighthearted banter that trivializes these incidents.

Because of the action I took, I fear that I have lost friends. And I know there are others who feel I was overbearing, unreasonable, biased, and a killjoy among other things. And when members can kid around and make light of the whole incident, it only supports the attitude of those that that were suspended, and their supporters, that it's only fun and games, and it's always the big bad heavy-handed Moderator trying to spoil the fun.

Mod, if you lost friends over this, then they were not true friends to begin with. You did what had to be done, any real friend would have understood that and would not let it interfere with your friendship.

[steve 9atx]

Amen. Dean, you're my hero.

Steve

[metalfan]

Fake personas can ruin a board. It happened a few years ago on a Pond Forum I belong to. There was a member who was aggressive, nasty and prone to personal attacks. They had no public support for their venom, but for whatever reason, the moderators refused to ban them, and left it to the general population to police them and 'put them in their place'. They apparently got tired of being the only person in their little hate group so they managed to invent 2 other personas to "support" them. In this manner they wreaked havoc on the board for months before they go caught and finally banned.

You have a hard job, no doubt, Dean, but you always do it well. If people get mad at you for that, it's a hard thing to take. But just as many people appreciate you.

[Tyrone]

Phil,

Thanks for your moment of seriousness. As you have witnessed, I did take the behavior you outlined seriously, for many of the same reasons you mentioned. However, I was also equally disheartened because I expended considerable time and effort trying to work with the guilty parties, and bent over backwards, so as not to do what I felt necessary.

But I have to express that I am also distressed that there are quite a few PalmTallk members who don't realize or recognize, as you did, the seriousness of the matter. And that they can find reasons to make jokes and engage in lighthearted banter that trivializes these incidents.

Because of the action I took, I fear that I have lost friends. And I know there are others who feel I was overbearing, unreasonable, biased, and a killjoy among other things. And when members can kid around and make light of the whole incident, it only supports the attitude of those that that were suspended, and their supporters, that it's only fun and games, and it's always the big bad heavy-handed Moderator trying to spoil the fun.

Dean,

I think you've done a great job. By trying to reason with these people, trying to bring them back into line, you have operated with gracious dignity. You haven't been quick to get the axe out, and no wonder you are disheartened, as the result wasn't the happy one you wanted. It's a pity the pepretators didn't act with some regard for your efforts and fall into line. By their actions they condemn themselves, not you.

So if anyone doesn't want to follow the guidelines, get off this boat. No one forces anyone to be here. Your presence isn't wanted. Go and join a basket weaving forum or something and harass them, not us. Get it, YOU'RE NOT WELCOME.

Dean, I hope you don't lose any friends over this, but as others said, they couldn't have been real friends if you lose them over this.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Phil]

Scott,

I appreciate your comments above. But, remember that sometimes people do screw up and do things that they later regret. I am totally in favor of the Moderator's policy of warnings and hopefully rehabilitation. I know a few of those reportedly involved and really enjoy and appreciate them. Some people, in their efforts "to be right" may disappear and go away. However, others will realize the benefits and rewards of participation with this group and stick around. They'll come to see that rules have a purpose. The latter folks may have to swallow a bit of their pride, but in time things will even out and we'll move forward in a good fashion. With this result, perhaps Dean can put moderating on "cruise control" for a while.

Phil

[Shon]

People in glass houses Joe.

[palmazon]

for anyone curious about my identity (and why I hide behind a mask), I'm the fellow on the left

[rozpalm]

One way to out those that use multiple Id's would be to display the IP addresses next to he message. Even though they are dynamic for most of us, it would prevent back to back postings under different id's. You can also display the geographical location and owner of the IP address too which would make it easy to tell when people are faking it as well. Just some thoughts.

[Pivi]

of course moderators see ip adresses... and of course we don't.

[PALM MOD]

Thanks to those of you lending support. Moderators are often accused of acting without that support when members are quiet. And a lack of member concern is usually interpreted by trouble makers as a form of acceptance of their behavior.

Gina, myself, and others have witnessed forums falling apart. It starts as little personality conflicts and builds into persistent grudges that begin to creep into everything, as people take sides. It is like a relationship. Chemistry is important, and difficult to repair once it begins to sour. That is why it is better to try and keep it from doing so in the first place.

With this in mind, and related to Phil's comments about acceptance and forgiveness, I will have more to say later about what we can all do to continue and welcome anyone who wishes to participate here in the spirit that we have come to enjoy, despite errors that may have been made in the past.

[Mark Heath]

People in glass houses Joe.

Who is Joe??? And no,,,, it's not my momma!!! Just wondering who you're refering to!!

BTW, i feel Dean is doing a FANTASTIC job and i want to say thank you for all the hard work that you put into this wonderfull forum!!

[PALM MOD]

of course moderators see ip adresses... and of course we don't.

Pivi is right. I have a very efficient tool to cross check and reference IPs. But actually, an equally efficient method is to pay close attention to how people write. And even if they throw in more or less emoticons, or try to misspell or otherwise confuse, there is always that constantly misspelled word, punctuation, or theme that gives them away.

[Tad]

I miss Stan, he was my favorite stumpster

[MattyB]

Like too many of these will give you away every time.

I'm sorry to all for being immature and joking so much. I do take it seriously and support the moderation team, so much so that I think they have it under control and so I go about my inane business. I don't mean to negate the seriousness of the actions of the stumpheads. I promise I'll never be this serious again. Isn't it a little wierd though? Like, where'd MattyB go? I don't want you guys to think I got abducted or anything.

[Phil]

Wow, that's wierd. I think I heard it on T.V. It goes like this: "Where in the world is Matt..." or something like that.

Phil

[freakypalmguy]

Dean,

I was bummed to see that you had taken what had happened personally. Most of what you do goes unnoticed on this board and we all take it for granted sometimes. The board just runs and we accept it, not thinking of the constant work and decisions going on in the background. I know you have heard it before, but I'll say it again, Thank you for your work here, I greatly appreciate it and your fairness. I really enjoy this place for all it's information, the people, and the sincere characters we have.

Sincerely,

Matt

[Walter John]

Stranger ride carefully

Stay 'way from your gun.

There's danger in Laramie for men on the run.

[gsn]

Scott,

I appreciate your comments above. But, remember that sometimes people do screw up and do things that they later regret. I am totally in favor of the Moderator's policy of warnings and hopefully rehabilitation. I know a few of those reportedly involved and really enjoy and appreciate them. Some people, in their efforts "to be right" may disappear and go away. However, others will realize the benefits and rewards of participation with this group and stick around. They'll come to see that rules have a purpose. The latter folks may have to swallow a bit of their pride, but in time things will even out and we'll move forward in a good fashion. With this result, perhaps Dean can put moderating on "cruise control" for a while.

Phil

Phil,

Thanks, and I understand what you are saying, and also appreciate,and respect your comments.

The only comment I will make is that several of these individuals,had just had their first strike(timeout) less than a month before this current incident came to light.

In fact if you look at the time line, larabie,cuckoo,and ken,(fake personas)all joined the forum right around the time of the FIRST timeout, for these individuals.

Looking at it from that perspective,seems(while serving that timeout) they decided to run an end around the forum rules, and create fake identities at essentially the same time they got into trouble the first time. ! Doesn't sound like someone who wants to be rehabilitated, but that perspective is maybe just mine?

[ghar41]

Because of the action I took, I fear that I have lost friends.

No way! You have the full support of the silent majority.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

After reading the thread... I still can't figure out I am missing ???

If I am correct we had some potential trouble makers who were banned?

Which of course I support. There have been other trouble makers on similar boards log on just to start arguments. Makes for a lot of craziness.

On the other side of the coin... I remember a couple of years back....a very distraught young palmphile named Kyle who was banned from this board for quite awhile......

He emailed me privately a couple of times to try to help him get him unbanned as his messages from the mods were ignored and if my memory serves me correct ...he said the mod called him a stump head.

I think it took 6 months or a year for him to shake that problem... but Kyle still posts from time to time and is a respected member of this board.

Anyway... thanks for all the good work.

I really dig this board even though I don't post much.

Jeff

[Walter John]

Faster guns than yours have made the foolish play

The next time that you draw may be the last.

We're a peaceful town; we aim to stay that way.

Dean, I should be moderator, I don't have any friends anyway.

[BS Man about Palms]

Faster guns than yours have made the foolish play

The next time that you draw may be the last.

We're a peaceful town; we aim to stay that way.

Dean, I should be moderator, I don't have any friends anyway.

Careful Wal, I'll fight ya on that one..

[PALM MOD]

I could use a couple of bouncers.

[Kris]

Dean, I should be moderator, I don't have any friends anyway.

I could use a couple of bouncers.