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Stan

Palms and heat.

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Stan

It's going to go well over 90 today. An unusual long heat wave for the bay area,maybe 5 -6 days instead of the usual 3....I can't believe how the Bottle palm i bought three weeks ago from a dark indoor nursery has adapted to full blazing sun-with a spear opening. When i bought it and repotted, most of the large roots were rotting from the dark and the fronds were a pale green for a bottle. Tough palm for hot areas. Same story for the Lowes Bismarckia..on its second frond. Shockingly fast. I have it in the hottest area possible for me and it loooves it. It's going to make a great large potted plant.I would be happy with a 8' spread in a eventual 36-48" pot outdoors. That's my plan. It's the fronds that are showy.The trunk is nothing special.

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Guest

Yes, Stan, and it's hitting 100F here (is that about 38C?).  Everything seems fine, even my new Rhopalostylis 7gal's.  

Is it true I should wait to plant, even if I did it in the early morning?  I've always wondered if that's a wive's tale, and I have a new Sabel mauritiiformis 15 gal to plant, that's happy in it's location apparently.  Needs to get in the ground;  grower had it slightly yellowed.  Is it true that I shouldn't plant in high heat?  I've always waited before.

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Guest

ps - Do I understand that you are not planting that Bizzie?  Get a nice deep eggplant colored planter to show off that color!  I didn't think of keeping one potted for a while.  The area I'm going to plant one of those is not ready.  

I'm going to have to come out there to shop.  No Bottles or Bizzies out here.

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elHoagie

(Kathy @ Jun. 22 2006,16:58)

QUOTE
Is it true that I shouldn't plant in high heat?  I've always waited before.

Kathy - I've planted lots of palms on hot days during the summer and never had a problem.  Just make sure it gets plenty of water of you plant it.  I usually let a hose drip on it for about 12 hours...

Jack

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bgl

Kathy,

I don't know about that (not planting when it's hot). If that were really true they would never be able to plant any palms in Singapore Botanical Garden!! If you have soil that drains well, go ahead and plant (maybe early evening?) then apply PLENTY of water as often as you can. I have found that most palms can't get enough water, but good drainage is the key. BTW, Sabal mauritiformis?? I thought that was one of the more difficult Sabals in cold weather? Was it outside for the winter?

Bo

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Guest

Thanks guys.  Yes, Bo, I understand it is one of the least cold tolerant Sabals, getting leaf damage below 29F from what I've read.  We usually don't dip below freezing, and on those rare years that we do it's usually just to 30F/-1C.  I'd say our outside risk is 28F.  If we go lower than 30F, I'll probably protect it.   And I'd say yes, it was outside in the greater Bay Area last winter, just not in my yard, as I recently acquired it.  Count me in for pushing the zones!

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NBTX11

Palms love heat.  I would say about 90F is the perfect temp for many species.  But, and this is only my opinion, there is a point of diminishing returns for heat.  Can you have too much heat...maybe.  When we get on one of our rolls of day after day of 100F+ furnace blasts, I think maybe some palms actually slow down to conserve energy, just like any other tree or plant.  Then you couple that with drought like conditions, and you have trouble.  Gotta keep them hydrated to keep up with the heat.  Mature species maybe not, but young plants definitely.  I would be interested to hear how palms planted in Phoenix or other areas get adjusted to the summer heat.  I've seen some small palms wilt out planted in the summer, when they weren't taken care of.

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SubTropicRay

Hi Kathy,

Sabal mauritiiformis can handle temps well below freezing (25F) albeit with some damage.  It is also, the fastest growing of the Sabals.  It's a great looking palm once established.

Ray

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Guest

Thanks Ray.  I thought it was faster growing.  I have a Sabal yapa that I recently learned may only grow 1-2 inches / 3-5 cm per year.  Jeesh!  Should have bought it bigger!

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Stan

I think i know what you mean Kathy.If you bought that Rhopo from a cool bay area nursery,planting out in 100 degree heat in Brentwood might not be a good idea. A good chance for burnt fronds.I would wait until you get back to the normal 80's.

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Stan

What the Back Easteners might not realize Kat,is that our 90-100's come with 14% humidity-or less.Even the Arizona deserts have more humidity. So, that is alot of stress for a Rhopo.

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Palmy

Extremly hot here. We got well over 100 yesterday and hit 100 today, or so far.. only 4 pm, might get hotter? I made the mistake of planting a edulis in full sun. Dug it up and its in a pot now with some burn.

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Patrick Palms

I want to grow a bottle palm tree, we have very nice temp and in winter average temp is 15c  i was told by a member that he does not think i can grow one because whats most important is the soil temp, is this true? i really love this palm.  The other thing he said was you can try planting next to a wall, and cover roots with black rock or stones, this helps to keep roots warm? do i really need to do all this? Gary

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Jim in Los Altos

HOT, HOT, HOT. We haven't seen this kind of heat in the Bay Area for a few years. 100's all around and very low humidity levels. My cool loving palms such as Howea and Rhopalostylus are fairing well so far, even my older Howeas in full sun. But the big bonus is with the heat lovers. My Bismarckias that had NO growth from Nov. through May now are putting out new leaves like there's no tomorrow. My six footer opened three new leaves in three weeks! Forcast is for 80's next week. That's going to seem like cool weather.

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Stan

From the pictures i have seen from Costa Blanca it is possible. The warming soil in winter methods should help.

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Stan

How or why Bismarckias have been considered ultra tropical is a mystery to me. Even without desert heat they throw out fronds...and speaking of weather,this is the seventh day in a row Hayward has been over 80 or close.Take away the second half of Feb and all of March and i think we have qualified for a subtropical year.68 on Christmas eve to this warm late spring early summer..what a good year to grow tropicals-and tomatos!

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BobbyinNY

We've been getting Rain, Rain, and More Rain... I feel like I'm in Seattle.... Our temps have been around 80-82f, but with 90% humidity - it's been feeling like you're walking around in soup -the palms and bananas are literally growing as I type this. My P. elegans just opened up 2 new spears in the past week, as did my adonidias.

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DoomsDave

In general, heat's good for palms.

In general.

I've found, for instance, that the hotter it is the happier the tropicals are, up to about 100 F.

Too much hotter than that, however, and you can have problems.  

Some palms, like Rhopalystylus, don't like too much heat.  If it gets too far above 90 F for too long, they stop growing; too far above 100 and they start to die.

Others, like Jubes, like heat, but hate high heat and humidity and croak.

Be careful about the generalizations.

dave

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BobbyinNY

what I've noticed is that the Night Temps are really important to growth . We've been having below normal temps for summer here (78-82f), but the night temps have been staying around 70-75f, and stuff has been growing way faster than when the daytime temps were 85-90f a month ago, and the night temps were dropping to around 60f - of course the fact that we've had almost 100% humidity doesn't hurt either.

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DoomsDave

(BobbyinNY @ Jun. 28 2006,11:22)

QUOTE
what I've noticed is that the Night Temps are really important to growth . We've been having below normal temps for summer here (78-82f), but the night temps have been staying around 70-75f, and stuff has been growing way faster than when the daytime temps were 85-90f a month ago, and the night temps were dropping to around 60f - of course the fact that we've had almost 100% humidity doesn't hurt either.

You've put your finger on why palms don't grow as fast here in the Land O'La La, even if it hardly ever freezes.  The nights, even in summer, are relatively cool.   Most of the time, though not just lately.

dave

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BobbyinNY

Dave,

I'm jealous... you've been having some really beautiful weather out there and it looks like it's gonna stay for awhile. I'd love to see 15 days in a row with no rain - easy to plan outdoor activiites out there.

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Stan

Wow,how are you handling all that northeast rain?

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elHoagie

(BobbyinNY @ Jun. 29 2006,09:21)

QUOTE
Dave,

I'm jealous... you've been having some really beautiful weather out there and it looks like it's gonna stay for awhile. I'd love to see 15 days in a row with no rain - easy to plan outdoor activiites out there.

15??  We have about 150 consecutive days every year without rain.  From around May 15 to Oct 15....

By the way, this is some of the best palm growing weather I can remember.  Days have been low/mid 30's and humid, morning lows in the low 20's.  It's slowly starting to dry out so the morning temps are probably going to start dipping below 20 again, but it was good to have a few days of Florida weather here in SoCal!

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BobbyinNY
Wow,how are you handling all that northeast rain?

It's been a nightmare for alot of people.. Fortunately, here on Long Island we didn't get any of the flooding that the people inland got who are near rivers. Where I live is similar to Florida terrain - flat and a few feet above sea level (very close to the ocean). The rain has made my palms and bananas grow like crazy - and now the next 10 days are forecast to be hot, humid and no rain so I'm sure stuff will be popping out all over the place.

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BS Man about Palms

(BobbyinNY @ Jun. 29 2006,13:53)

QUOTE
Wow,how are you handling all that northeast rain?

It's been a nightmare for alot of people.. Fortunately, here on Long Island we didn't get any of the flooding that the people inland got who are near rivers. Where I live is similar to Florida terrain - flat and a few feet above sea level (very close to the ocean). The rain has made my palms and bananas grow like crazy - and now the next 10 days are forecast to be hot, humid and no rain so I'm sure stuff will be popping out all over the place.

Can you say "Weed City"!

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BobbyinNY
Can you say "Weed City"!

you have no idea.... I'll be spending the better part of tomorrow getting rid of them...ugggghhh.

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DoomsDave

Ah, yes.

La Habra comes from a Native American word meaning:  Place where pale-faces (and others) pull endless weeds from pots of palms on hot days with the sun directly overhead.

BOBBY!

I pray for rain.  It's free water, from the sky.  That much less of a bill to pay.  Last year LOTTA RAIN.  Happy campers.  Yeah, brothers and sistas!

Yeah, I've seen the pix of the Northeast, my heart goes out (I lived in Hugetown Texas in April and May, oh, may you swim like the fish of the rivers as thine cars floodeth with water).  And it can flood in Cleavagetown, too.

But, yeah, we get used to no rain, as elHoagie put it.  We just assume, the way we assume the French will parlez vous.  

dave

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BobbyinNY
BOBBY!

I pray for rain.  It's free water, from the sky.  That much less of a bill to pay.  Last year LOTTA RAIN.  Happy campers.  Yeah, brothers and sistas!

Kinda like how we love our sun.... Oh it gets very sunny here most of the time - it just usually rains on the weekends when we're not working. :( ......  This 4th of July was Picture Perfect - actually the 3rd was better.... 90f/day, 75f/night...

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Stan

I saw a PBS program on Orchid fanatics. One in New York hauled even his most tender Orchids outdoors from his greenhouse to either a lathe structure or hung some from trees for the summer. That tells me of the heat and humidity you get Hey Bobby, have you tried any of the tree lovers in your collection like staghorn ferns or-orchids?

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BobbyinNY
I saw a PBS program on Orchid fanatics. One in New York hauled even his most tender Orchids outdoors from his greenhouse to either a lathe structure or hung some from trees for the summer. That tells me of the heat and humidity you get Hey Bobby, have you tried any of the tree lovers in your collection like staghorn ferns or-orchids?

Hey Stan....

I'm not really a big orchid fanatic - I have a Tree Fern that I planted - don't know too much about it though - but it seems to be happy where I put it.  I'll post a pic, maybe someone can help me identify it.

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Stan

Another heat wave..the Oakland Palmetum might have to consider trying more tropical species. A Bismarckia would seem a shoo in now....

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Neofolis

I have been quite surprised the past few days.  The UK have been having temperatures over 30°C/86°F and I have struggled to keep my polytunnel below 40°C/104°F.  I thought the plants would hate it, because most things I have read say that palms, etc. don't seem to like much over a 32-34°C/90-93°F optimum, but everything has been growing like mad, particularly the past two days, which have been the hottest.

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Guest

We are supposed to be having record highs here in the UK at  the moment.

I dont know what all the fuss is about as its obvious that the complainers have not experienced real warm conditions and perhaps should get out a little more . . .

May I remind my fellow UK Palmists that this little group of islands founded one of the greatest Empires the world has ever known and none of them pioneering guys complained about the heat!

Anyway Im enjoying the temps and so are my Palms.

Regards

Jon

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Neofolis

(Jon @ Jul. 20 2006,11:29)

QUOTE
I dont know what all the fuss is about as its obvious that the complainers have not experienced real warm conditions and perhaps should get out a little more . . .

May I remind my fellow UK Palmists that this little group of islands founded one of the greatest Empires the world has ever known and none of them pioneering guys complained about the heat!

Anyway Im enjoying the temps and so are my Palms.

Regards

Jon

Those same people will probably also complain when it's cold or when it rains.  I'm sure when the weather is perfect, by their criteria, they would still find something to complain about.

I'm interested to know how you know the early british pioneers didn't complain, although I dare say you are right, most people had to contend with far greater adversity in those days.

I'm loving it too.

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Stan

It's been so hot -my dog runs to the tub for a cooling bath...

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