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xerophyte_nyc

I know that Hyophorbe lagenicaulis can perhaps survive some frost, but what would be a safe minimum temp whereby there is no damage at all to the existing leaves or new growth?

Would 45F be adequate? 50F? I'm trying to determine how long I can keep mine outdoors before it must come inside but still be perfectly healthy. Thanks.

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SubTropicRay

Bottle palms do not like frost. They are not however ultra-tropical. Mine have seen 30F (under canopy) with some leaf tip damage. It can definitely take down to 32F with only minor damage.

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surgeon83

I agree with Ray as far as ones planted out in FL. However, when mine were in pots in TX, I accidentally left them out a couple of times when temps unexpectedly got down to 43 or so, and althought there may not have been any spotting, the leaves just looked ever so slightly droopier and yellower to me after that. So I made a policy to only keep them out at night if the low was predicted to be 60 or higher, because even then it would sometimes fall to 57 or so. After that policy, mine still saw 50 once or twice and didn't seem to mind as much as when they saw 43. I think if you leave them out much colder than that, they will probably grow much slower whether or not the leaves spot or die.

This is if you want it to be perfectly healthy as you stated. It will live at temps much lower than that of course.

Last year I had one in the ground, and it saw 38 under partial canopy and also prolonged cool winter with spotting on the leaf tips and slight yellowing. So actual necrosis starts somewhere north of 38 and south of 43, at least on my palm in those specific conditions.

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Tyrone

3C and lower with no canopy is starting to get a bit dangerous for a bottle. However I have 3 bottles in one area, from 3 different sources. One has almost defoliated while another one has mildly spotted a bit, and the third one is dark green with almost no spotting at all. They are all within 3ft of each other. The advertised min temp this winter was 0.7C, but where they were they'd have been at least 2-2.5C. My baby Carpoxylon in the same area didn't spot at all, and pushed a spear all winter which has opened to a fully formed leaf. The point is H lagenicaulis can vary as to cold hardiness, and they do toughen up. Obviously bringing a bottle down from the tropics and giving it low temps will shock it. The same plant given a few years hardening to cool temps will fair better.

Best regards

Tyrone

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MattyB

I had mine out all winter last year. My ultimate low in this area was 40F. The leaves spotted on the few nights that got about 40-42F. It continued to grow slowly in it's full sun location, and even though the leaves were spotted they've stayed on well into this summer and the plant is fat and happy. This is my first experience with a bottle palm.

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sur4z

mine seems to be happy on the south side of the house shielded from the cold north winds.

10-02-07_1439.jpg

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MattyB

.....I'll say

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palmsOrl
:drool: Wow that's one of the best looking specimens I've seen! I have a 4 footer planted under a large queen palm. In my experience they seem to be roughly as hardy as adonidas. Mine is taking its time getting a trunk, since 4 months of the year it just tolerates my climate.

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Tyrone

I would have to say that Adonidia's are more cold sensitive than H lagenicaulis. Around here you'll see the odd bottle palm and some real beauties, but you'll never see an Adonidia. It's a real shame they don't do well here. I had an Adonidia in a pot for many years and protected it through winter, and it looked gorgeous. This winter I left it under shade cloth and we had a couple of hail storms, which I assume allowed near freezing water to drip through the shade cloth. It's just throwing off leaf after leaf. I think it's finished. The strange thing is a Red Torch Ginger right next to it, has barely been damaged and is putting out new growth.

Best regards

Tyrone

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glbower

I have a mature bottle (it's growing its first two inflorescences) in a fairly protected site on the sout side of my house. It never spotted up during cold weather until our one-night January cold snap. The leaf tips burned too. Three mature Adonidias on the north side were undamaged. Exactly the opposite of what I expected. The temperature got down to 33 degrees for a couple of hours.

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JimR

My bottle, which has been planted out since 2005, has survived 28F and snow, with some significant damage. However, the worst damage he ever took was from cold, dry winds at about 40F. Both episodes led to prolonged period of slow growth. I am surprised at the comments on Adonidas. My Adonida merrilii's appear quite a bit more cold hardy than the bottle.

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Walter John
mine seems to be happy on the south side of the house shielded from the cold north winds.

10-02-07_1439.jpg

Did you plant that as a youngun' ?

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JD in the OC

When it comes to the old "better safe than sorry" adage, I would say you want to bring it in once it gets below 45F. Shouldn't get any cold burn or fungal spotting that way...

(My parents have had one in a pot for 2 years in Southern California so I'm going by that...)

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deezpalms

Here along the coast of North County San Diego I've had one for about 8 years and it makes it through winter year after year. Sometimes it will only hold one or two fronds but always comes right back in spring and tends to hold two or three more fronds until the following winter.

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sur4z
mine seems to be happy on the south side of the house shielded from the cold north winds.

10-02-07_1439.jpg

Did you plant that as a youngun' ?

Hi Wal-

I did plant it young and it made it through a backside of the house remodel.

bottlepalm-1.jpg

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surferjr
I know that Hyophorbe lagenicaulis can perhaps survive some frost, but what would be a safe minimum temp whereby there is no damage at all to the existing leaves or new growth?

Would 45F be adequate? 50F? I'm trying to determine how long I can keep mine outdoors before it must come inside but still be perfectly healthy. Thanks.

Tough grow...likes it hot and wet!

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Palmetro
mine seems to be happy on the south side of the house shielded from the cold north winds.

10-02-07_1439.jpg

Man!! Your bottle palm is amazing!! I hope mine will grow li ke yours!

Thanks for the photo"!

Christian

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chris.oz
I know that Hyophorbe lagenicaulis can perhaps survive some frost, but what would be a safe minimum temp whereby there is no damage at all to the existing leaves or new growth?

Would 45F be adequate? 50F? I'm trying to determine how long I can keep mine outdoors before it must come inside but still be perfectly healthy. Thanks.

IMO somewhere between 45 and 50F, based on the onset of spotting on my 2 at the end of summer before I bought them inside.

Over the years I left them outside just a little too far into Autumn, and they died.

In that respect they are similar to Pritchardia pacifica.

Thats possibly the best looking bottle around.

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ruskinPalms

Based upon the last year's freeze in January which was dry and advective in nature when temps were anywhere from 27F to 29F all around the Tampa Bay area, bottle palms can at least survive those sort of temperatures with varying degrees of damage depending on the location where they were planted (i.e. microclimates and 'nanoclimates'), actual temperature they saw (was it 27 or was it 29?), level of care they received prior to the freeze (was it average joe's bottle palm that never gets fertilised properly and is surrounded by hungry lawn grass, or was it a palmophile's bottle palm which is coddled throughout the year?), and level of establishment and age of the bottle palm. I have seen some that are just now recovered from the freeze and are just now starting to put out proper fronds, most I have seen in the area look fine with maybe the slightest sign that something nasty happened 10 months ago, and some were completely unfazed by the freeze. In my yard, most were essentially unfazed by the freeze, but one that I had just transplanted a few months before the freeze took the heaviest damage with about 50% bronzing, but it too has fully recovered now and I expect it to be tougher this year. I think root establisment is extremely important for cold hardiness.

In my experience, I have not found spindles to be any more cold hardy than bottles - sad to say. But maybe the ultimate lows that these things can take have not yet been tested in my yard. An adonidia or 2 in my yard did put out a few stunted fronds after the freeze, but all are fine now and growing well.

As for your original question, why take a chance if they are in a pot? Bring them in when temps start to get below 50F. Your bottles will thank you! Also keep in mind that palms are much more cold hardy when planted in the ground, they just have a much more robust root system when planted in the ground which I guess must somehow make them more resilient.

I hope this helped.

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Neofolis

I was quite surprised to see bottles planted in Orlando. I assume they either give them protection during cold spells in winter or just replace them in Spring.

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bubba

Pedro,Who gived you that Bottle Palm?

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surgeon83
I was quite surprised to see bottles planted in Orlando. I assume they either give them protection during cold spells in winter or just replace them in Spring.

Well Corey bottle palms seem to be able to handle short periods of upper 20s F in central Florida. In my area there are a few tiny specimens (2' tall) that got badly burned last winter but have recovered. On larger specimens, which is what people tend to plant anyway, you would have to get really close to the palm to be able to see the damage if any. Orlando may not have had worse than upper twenties in a few years, so the bottles could have survived on their own, espcially if there are coconuts and traveler's palms out like Eric is showing.

Besides, around here you can get a 20-gallon specimen with 6-8" of trunk for $50, so even if it does freeze, they will come back one way or another << that explains why they're not afraid to plant them in Orlando (or my yard for that matter).

Edited by surgeon83

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spockvr6
I was quite surprised to see bottles planted in Orlando. I assume they either give them protection during cold spells in winter or just replace them in Spring.

Well Corey bottle palms seem to be able to handle short periods of upper 20s F in central Florida. In my area there are a few tiny specimens (2' tall) that got badly burned last winter but have recovered. On larger specimens, which is what people tend to plant anyway, you would have to get really close to the palm to be able to see the damage if any. Orlando may not have had worse than upper twenties in a few years, so the bottles could have survived on their own, espcially if there are coconuts and traveler's palms out like Eric is showing.

Besides, around here you can get a 20-gallon specimen with 6-8" of trunk for $50, so even if it does freeze, they will come back one way or another << that explains why they're not afraid to plant them in Orlando (or my yard for that matter).

Yes...my Bottles took a light windy freeze (29-30F) last January and are fine. They got various amounts of burn, but nothing too terrific. None of them even threw any stunted fronds in Spring.

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palmdudetx
My bottle, which has been planted out since 2005, has survived 28F and snow, with some significant damage. However, the worst damage he ever took was from cold, dry winds at about 40F. Both episodes led to prolonged period of slow growth. I am surprised at the comments on Adonidas. My Adonida merrilii's appear quite a bit more cold hardy than the bottle.

Jim,

Just curious, what min. temps have your Adonidas seen? Do you have them there in S.A. or Key Allegro? I have been tempted to plant one large one that I have grown under some canopy, next to a stucco wall. It very seldom gets down to freezing at this particular location.

Marvin

Zone 9A

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JubaeaMan138

There is a big one down the street from me here in the inland empire I'm shocked it has lived . Seems as though it was planted years ago to. Looks really healthy I guess it goes to show finding the right place in your garden. I should know this my father use to place things in the pots around the yard to see how well they would do in that spot. Which I should really start doing before I drop something in the ground. 

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JubaeaMan138

Also I wonder if you benefit from

planting out a large bottle vs a small one. Does a bigger Palm help at all in a borderline climate 

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Kukapalm

They are to grow over here in Orange County. I get them confuse with the majestic palm. I have a small one that I bought at HD last year that grows well with zero protection. here another one a saw around the neighborhood. IMG_77431.jpgIMG_79001.jpg

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GottmitAlex
16 hours ago, JubaeaMan138 said:

Also I wonder if you benefit from

planting out a large bottle vs a small one. Does a bigger Palm help at all in a borderline climate 

I think for tropical palms in marginal climates/regions the best way to go is small and protect it for the first 2-3 years. By then, the roots will have established.  I have seen and read too many horror stories of folks planting large, trunked tropicals in marginal climates which did not have time to establish the necessary roots in order to make it through the following winter.  Just my opinion.

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Hilo Jason
23 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

I think for tropical palms in marginal climates/regions the best way to go is small and protect it for the first 2-3 years. By then, the roots will have established.  I have seen and read too many horror stories of folks planting large, trunked tropicals in marginal climates which did not have time to establish the necessary roots in order to make it through the following winter.  Just my opinion.

I agree with Alex on this. The below bottle palm in my Fallbrook, Ca garden was grown at a nursery in Fallbrook. I planted it as a small 3 gallon and it's done great. I've never really heard of people having good experiences with the big ones that you see at big box stores that are Florida grown. 

IMG_9840.thumb.JPG.32b887c467efe2e954994

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