Death by Fertilizer

[Alicehunter2000]

I am extremely sad. I had 3 Gainesville Avocadoes that were very healthy seedlings until I "Miracle Grow'd" 2 of them to death. I used a scoop instead of a spoonful to a gallon of water. These were the seeds that Kyle in Gainesville picked off the ground at the U.F campus tree. I very sorry Kyle (very stupid of me not to pay attention to what I was doing).

Anyway, the largest and best one is still alive and seems to be ok (why? I don't know).

To keep this thread palmy, I had exposed most, if not all my palm seedlings to the concentrated mixture as well. The only seedlings that seemed affected was my A. wrightii seedlings. It browned some leaves but otherwise they seem to be recovering. My question is.....do you think it is the salt content of the Miracle Grow that killed the Avocado? Does Miracle Grow have salt? Also would this be the reason the palms were not affected? Have others killed palms in this manner........too much of a good thing?

[spockvr6]

Have others killed palms in this manner........too much of a good thing?

David-

About 3 years ago, I overfertilized a small Royal palm (no trunk). I burned nearly every leaf off of it in short order. Its twin about 6-8 feet away was not overfertilized.

Well, 3 years later, the one I burned, although it has normal leaves again, is still suffering as it has about half the girth of the healthy one! Both palms have about 4 ft of gray wood but one looks ridiculous as the trunk is about the diameter of what would be expected for a King palm. I doubt it will ever recover enough to match its twin.

Edited June 27, 2008 by spockvr6

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Hi David.....all fertilizers contain "salts" , and the toxicity (due to osmotic pressure and a resultant lack of water in the plants) will vary with frequency and dosage. Pots are a captive audience so to speak, and it can happen insidiously into a chronic problem, or acutely in a disastrous explosion

A massive OD of even a water soluble fertilizer can nuke certain plants all at once....i have seen palms take a bit longer

to show the damage.

The best thing to do is try to "flush" the pots to leach any fert out of the soil....with the cleanest water you have, since a lot of sources have their own issues with "salts".

Rusty

[Kathryn]

I've never killed or even damaged a palm with fertilizer and I way over fertilized many palms when I first started growing them (trying to get them to grow faster), but I only used slow release palm fertilizer so maybe that had something to do with the lack of damage.

[Guest Keith in Zone 9]

Hey there fellow palmofiles. I've been in the business of helping professional nurseries use fertilizer for 13 years. I work for the Scotts business unit that sells Osmocote to Nurseries, and our Water Soluble Fertilizer to Greenhouses (Peters Professional...in 25# bags...not the small retail packages which isn't our brand). Yes, Miracle Gro (and all other fertilizers) can cause damage just like Rusty described. Kathryn, you can kill plants with "slow release" or "controlled release" fertilizer too...so be careful. I've killed plenty, trust me!!!! Here's something I learned from a nurseryman that was trying to solve the problem of high fertilizer salts in a crop of King Palms. Add regular table sugar (1 oz/gallon or 5#/100g) to the water you are going to use to leach the pots. It helps move the fertilizer salt out, but it also increases the flora and fauna population within the potting soil and they will consume some of those fertilizer salts too. I doubt it'd work on sea salt (which is really just table salt, NaCl). Make sure to put enough of this solution on the pot that a generous amount runs out of the drain holes. Hope that helps.

[Really full garden]

I use mostly granular fertilisers and must be very careful to water before and after applying.I have killed a Pseudophoenix sp. with too much fert..I find small amounts applied frequently are far more effective than large amounts a couple times per year.

[Jeff Searle]

Hell yeeaaa. Over the years, sure. Last year I burned to death my first Ficus dammaropis. OUCH!!

Jeff

[Alicehunter2000]

Sugar...............huh.........who would have thunk it? I repotted most of the A. wrightii to a larger pot so hopefully that will help......also lots of water. I repotted the G-ville Avocado's as well......to larger size. Problem is with Avo's they don't like too much water....so got to be careful with the flushing action.

Suger.....going to give it a try. Sure hope there is not a delayed reaction with the other palms. I took some pictures, will try and post them later today. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who has done this (misery loves company)

[Kris]

Dear David

sorry to hear about your plants,my suggestion will be whenever watering is due for the plants just over water it on that ocassion..it will reduce the salt concentration in the pots or containers...But its not not dish to add sugar,just because the item or dish has become salty ? Beware of red ants attack if you go for the sugar option.

And in future try slow release capsule or pelletised form of fertz,which is avaliable easily through online merchants or walmart.And also the superthrive is a good grouth booster.since even i have burnt some plants by using fertz during summer.so now i use fertz only when the comencement of rainy season and early spring..! And i use Di-amonium sulphate in diluted form every 3 to 4 weeks in that season !

Lots of love,

Kris

[Alicehunter2000]

Thanks Kris, good point about the ants......Lord knows I got plenty of those already.

Here are the Avocados and A. wrightii's

The two leafless sticks and larger pot are the Gainesville, Fl. variety given to me by Kyle.

The others are the cold hardy Houston, Texas variety given to me by Steve G.

The A. wrightii's were found on the ground at SeaWorld.

[doubravsky]

Hey... I burned up a Ficus Dammaropsis in the spring last year.... saw it coming back after the freeze, threw on a little blood meal, and THWAP! Dead as a doornail!

I have a Ficus Rubignosa that's real sensitive too... any time I fertilize the bamboo next to it too much.... it gets all unhappy...

[freakypalmguy]

I torched a 7+ year old Butia archeri (I still cry) with liquid fert I was using on my cycads. I was totally bummed.

[Kathryn]

Sorry David, I didn't realize that you were talking about pots. I rarely fertilize my potted palms. My favorite method for killing them is lack of water - it works well - I've probably killed over a hundred potted palms this way.

[Alan_Tampa]

David, as long as you have well draining soil in your pot you shouldn't worry about overwatering the avocados. It is wet feet that they disdain, not ample water. (within reason of course.)

I burned a Bunchosia pretty bad recently, dropped every leaf and suffered dieback, but after flushing the pot well, it came back to life a few weeks later. I also pissed of a santol pretty bad too, with the miracle grow (this is only plant I have seen this with) with the doser-hose dealy. The dilution rate is about 100X. So David you gave your plants about 5 times the needed dose, if it was 20-20-20 it would be .2% actual N-P-K and you manged to give them about a 1% percent bath, which some plants tolerate, but not avocados it would seem. I am kinda guessing on the 5 x too much theory, see how many tablespoons fit in your scoop.

Alan

[Tala]

If you do burn anything just flood it w/ water, re-pot if possible. I swear by Osmocote for potted stuff. I dump it on there, 2 or 3 times the recommended dose, never ever burned a palm from it in 15 yrs incl. stuff w/ deep buds (D.decipiens, Sabal, Allagoptera, Acrocomia, etc.). The Nutricote never burns either but it also doesn't release all the way like Osmocote does. When you shell out that kind of cash for a product you don't want a single capsule to stay closed. But that said any of the polymer coated materials will work for potted stuff. Cost way more but worth it.

[Alicehunter2000]

David, as long as you have well draining soil in your pot you shouldn't worry about overwatering the avocados. It is wet feet that they disdain, not ample water. (within reason of course.)

I burned a Bunchosia pretty bad recently, dropped every leaf and suffered dieback, but after flushing the pot well, it came back to life a few weeks later. I also pissed of a santol pretty bad too, with the miracle grow (this is only plant I have seen this with) with the doser-hose dealy. The dilution rate is about 100X. So David you gave your plants about 5 times the needed dose, if it was 20-20-20 it would be .2% actual N-P-K and you manged to give them about a 1% percent bath, which some plants tolerate, but not avocados it would seem. I am kinda guessing on the 5 x too much theory, see how many tablespoons fit in your scoop.

Alan

Wow! what a great guess.......I just measured it, and it was actually 6 tablespoons. I flushed the heck out of everything, including my Phoenix species and Bismarkia's which I'm not sure like too much water. We have had alot of thunderstorms up here so all this stuff has been getting alot of water. I sure hope I don't rot anything. Daytime temps have been in the 90's. I have used alot of Perlite in most of my pots.....along with Jungle Mix (Lowes), so most of the stuff drains pretty good. A few times I had to use plain dirt (sand with some builders clay mixed in).

[galveston1602]

My latest attempt is attached!

This palm got a quadruple shot of problems!

too much fert,

bad sprinkler head so no irrigation,

drought like conditions ,

strong winds (with salt)

im hoping that they pull through it but so far they look really really ratty!

[BS Man about Palms]

Sorry David, I didn't realize that you were talking about pots. I rarely fertilize my potted palms. My favorite method for killing them is lack of water - it works well - I've probably killed over a hundred potted palms this way.

Kate- I knew we were on our own level the moment I met you.....But I'm happy you are ahead of me....

[Carlo Morici]

It never happened to me. Maybe the opposite. I have possibly always "underfed" my own plants. In the Canaries we have forginving volcanic soils, which are very fertile. Plants do need some help with fertilizer, but we often forget.

At my place I fertilize once or twice a year with pulverized sheep manure. My palms are often begging for nutrients, but they do grow and I believe they are healthier if kept on the hard side. Lush fertilzed palms do get more pests and are often more sensitive to wind or drought. The "real thing" is often smaller but much stronger.

The Palmetum in Tenerife is watered with stinky "purified water", which is so awfully rich in nutrients that no fertilizer has been ever added, and no palms ever asked for nutrients.... except some needed pH corrections or a cleaner water.

When I was 21-26 years old I never fertilized my home garden in Sicily, which is planted on coastal sand, enriched by the falling leaf litter. The garden was abandoned for 11 months a year with only drippers and some weeding. I had some 60 palm species slowly thriving with NO diseases at all. I started fertilizing again and mealybugs and aphids showed up. Now I do give some once a year in August, and palms look happier.

Carlo

[_Keith]

I have done my share of overfertilizing, but up until now I have yet to totally terminate something. Here is my latest attempt at doing everything wrong.

Here is what I started with, a nice Trachy transplant.

First the person who dug it up did a horrible job and then put it in that blue bucket with no drainage holes. I got it in the ground almost straight away, but alas it was fall. Not a good time to transplant a palm here. Winter pretty much finished off the fronds on the already weakened palm. Then, this summer the first time I saw evidence of a frond I nailed it with the fertilizer, but the predicted rains did not come, and failed to come for nearly 2 more months.

Here it is today, nearly 9 months later, trying to live. The first two fronds it pushed looked like that dying one. They were dying on the way out. This latest frond looks a little better. I gave it a good H2O2 dowsing as I am worried about fungus now that it is raining everyday.

[SubTropicRay]

I killed an Oraniopsis sapling with just a hint of fertilizer last year. It's now clear that this palm wants to grow at its blazing 2 leaf a year pace and will not be rushed.