Travel Logs Discussion

[PALM MOD]

Presently we have a Travel Logs section that mentions in it's description "Botanical Gardens" among other things. We created it after member suggestion and discussion, due to so many nice travel topics appearing in "Discussing Palms." So as long as we have it, we should use it as intended and described. I have not been as strict when enforcing these guidelines as I could/should be, and there is a gray area.

I can not read every post anymore. I can't even read every thread anymore. I skim as best I can, but may miss things. So I encourage and appreciate when members report items to me that may need correcting. Consider yourselves as mini-moderators. Please use the "report" button if you ever notice anything that you feel needs correcting or moderating.

It is unfortunate that topics in "Discussing Palms" seem to attract more viewing. So I understand members wanting to post there. But we can't have everything in "Discussing Palms." And there are many threads in "Travel Logs" with over 1,000 views. Still, I wish more members would use the "View New Posts" option, so that they are exposed to all new posts, in all areas. That way you don't need to sift through all the different sub-forums to stay in tune with all the newest posts.

As to the suggestion of putting certain travel threads in "Discussing Palms" first, then keeping track of them all, and finally moving each of them individually after an arbitrary length of time --- I have enough trouble keeping track of when to pay each of my bills.

We can merge the two forums if everyone likes that idea better. We can change the descriptions. We can discuss other options. Or we can keep things as is, and worry about other things.

[_Keith]

Seems to me that it goes with subject matter. The thread in question was palms, all palms, and nothing but palms. The fact that it happened in a botanical garden was secondary in my opinion. The thread was discussing palms. Some botanical garden threads are about that, the botanical garden in whole, and have little palm discussion. Put them in Travel Logs. There is a lot of grey area between the thread topics, for instance landscaping is in the discussing section. There are generally no finer examples of landscaping than in botanical gardens. I say, it is subject matter that counts, not the physical location. In this thread the subject matter was discussing palms.

[PALM MOD]

Here's a response from Wal taken, and then deleted, from the Nong Nooch thread.

QUOTE (deezpalms @ Jun 19 2008, 12:51 AM)

I agree with BS on this. Many threads in the travel logs area don't get the attention that they would get in the main forum.

Disagree.............read on

Hello Bruno

There's about 5 or 6 posts and comments about the transfer of this thread to it's rightful zone as designed by the IPS and the forum team. I'm almost sorry now Bruno that I opened my big gob and started this move in the first place. I meant no disrespect.

I post a lot and always try to enter any travel and botanical garden posts into the Travel area which as I stated above is perfectly set up for. Users who want to read about travels and botanical gardens (BGs) can go straight to the one stop shop and find things a whole lot easier rather than trying to locate it amongst all the posts in the main area.

[PALM MOD]

Let me repeat that I encourage and appreciate when anyone reports to me something they think needs correcting. That is what the "Report" button to the left of every post is for.

[Walter John]

I believe finding/viewing information on travel spots and botanical gardens (BGs) at the one stop shop is a whole lot easier than through the "Discussing palms area" . They can be passed over to page two fairly quickly in "Discussing palms area" whilst in the Travel logs the thread can be seen a lot longer on the first page. 100% palms or not, it is the best place to put BGs.

I've said a mouthful on this and am quite tired of it now and cannot for the life of me understand the misunderstanding of the travel section, it's clear as glass I would have thought.

[Modster]

Yes Wal, it does clearly state "Palms from local trips and exotic travels, Chapter Meetings, and Botanical Gardens." under the travel log title so you are right, thanks for posting accordingly. A lot people just skim over sentences in the guidelines and don't really read them (including myself sometimes). Some can argue that there is a grey area, but perhaps a good rule of thumb might be, if you are posting photos of your own garden or have specific palm related questions, it goes into "Discussing Palms..." if you want to post pictures of a garden that you had to use some means of transportation to get to, it should go into the "Travel Logs" The intent of including BGs was to increase the subject material to where it was enough to warrant creating another sub-forum.

[_Keith]

Yes Wal, it does clearly state "Palms from local trips and exotic travels, Chapter Meetings, and Botanical Gardens." under the travel log title so you are right, thanks for posting accordingly. A lot people just skim over sentences in the guidelines and don't really read them (including myself sometimes). Some can argue that there is a grey area, but perhaps a good rule of thumb might be, if you are posting photos of your own garden or have specific palm related questions, it goes into "Discussing Palms..." if you want to post pictures of a garden that you had to use some means of transportation to get to, it should go into the "Travel Logs" The intent of including BGs was to increase the subject material to where it was enough to warrant creating another sub-forum.

You guys are going to be really busy with those rules above. Looks like you have already been busy moving at least 6 threads that I can see. A quick run through with the rules above shows an easy 6 to 10 more that should be moved from among the ones below. And that is just for June.

Elbow Beach

Corypha's in Lal Bagh

Beautiful Coconut lined beach

CIDP in Cape Coral

Phoenix in and round Madras

Fastastic Palm Garden in N. Cal

Palm trees on the course (Torrey Pines)

Cairns BG - Famous palms

Cape Harbor Palms...crazy amount of C.Crinita

Traveling to Thailand

Nassau, Bahamas

Mission Bay palms

[BS Man about Palms]

I'll say it here, Bruno PLEASE continue posting wherever you like!

[Kim]

So...it follows the Costa Rica Biennial section should be exclusively about Costa Rica, right? Come on, Wal, relax a little... We should all cut each other a little slack.

[PALM MOD]

Why doesn't everybody lighten up a little. If someone feels a thread about a Botanical Garden should go in the area designated for Botanical Gardens, then they can PM me. I can take care of it and any others that I may have missed.

Keith,

This isn't the military. And I don't think anyone wants it to be. Sometimes the rules and guidelines are necessarily flexible, and no harm is done in certain situations if the letter of law isn't followed. As mentioned, I haven't enforced a strict interpretation of the Travel Log guidelines because I didn't think it ranked high on the worry list. I still don't think it does. Certain threads may warrant moving, while others straddle the line.

[BS Man about Palms]

I'll ask here too. Bruno, PLEASE post wherever you like, we'll sort it out.

[Kris]

i have a request here to make since these threads have more of palms in predominance,why can't these topics be in main discussion boards...then once the traffic is settled down they could be transfered to the travelog section..since those who only visit main discussion board will certainly miss out this palm extravagensa...

[Walter John]

[Kris]

Dear Bruno

i have a humble request to make on beahalf of all our members out here...we don't wan't to miss you_Please ! since i do not have the age or experience to put things here in a most appropriate manner.but i can tell you one thing very straight form my heart..all these 2 years of my presence in this forum.i have made plenty of friends which would include our 'wal'.and his writings & mannerisium are bit different..but he is a lovely person & good at heart.and if you see his response to my post..it would appear bit harsh but we both know each other other so well that i never feel hurt but i laugh my lungs out when i see his writtings,i know even he knows that.

but i think its your first encounter with him but as i said we love him as much we love you...

if your still not convienced with what i say,then iam asking forgiveness on his behalf ! And i have seen lots of christians having a big heart & the ablity to forgive those who have hurt them..Please want you give us all a chance ?????

thanks & love,

Kris

By the way if you stop posting,even we will all miss out on the beauties of your land..& your lovely travel coverage experiences....And another thing is that iam not a english guy writting english,so if you find anything out of context or relevence,kindly forgive me,dear bruno.

[PALM MOD]

i have a request here to make since these threads have more of palms in predominance,why can't these topics be in main discussion boards...then once the traffic is settled down they could be transfered to the travelog section..since those who only visit main discussion board will certainly miss out this palm extravagensa...

Kris,

I already answered that in the first post of this thread. Here it is again.

As to the suggestion of putting certain travel threads in "Discussing Palms" first, then keeping track of them all, and finally moving each of them individually after an arbitrary length of time --- I have enough trouble keeping track of when to pay each of my bills.

[Kathryn]

I like having threads about botanical gardens or other cites all in one location. I’ve posted at least two - one was documenting my trip to Fairchild Tropical Garden and the other was some pictures I took around New Orleans when some friends came to town. It seems like a punishment to be banished to the “Travel Log” section, but I think this section is useful and I enjoy it.

If I post “Livistona chinensis in New Orleans”, it should not go in the travel log section, but if I post something that kind of documents what a visitor might want to see in New Orleans, it should go in the travel section. That way, when someone is deciding where to go on vacation, they might consider New Orleans. Or, when they are stuck at their boring job, they can look at my New Orleans thread and pretend they are on vacation or remember the time they were here.

[Jeff Searle]

Why doesn't everybody lighten up a little. If someone feels a thread about a Botanical Garden should go in the area designated for Botanical Gardens, then they can PM me. I can take care of it and any others that I may have missed.

Keith,

This isn't the military. And I don't think anyone wants it to be. Sometimes the rules and guidelines are necessarily flexible, and no harm is done in certain situations if the letter of law isn't followed. As mentioned, I haven't enforced a strict interpretation of the Travel Log guidelines because I didn't think it ranked high on the worry list. I still don't think it does. Certain threads may warrant moving, while others straddle the line.

Dean,

I agree that some topics are clear cut on where they belong and others definitely straddle the fence for sure. But a trip to a Botanical Garden belongs in the Travel section, thats clear cut. I have seen many times when members start a topic where it dosen't belong, usually in the "Discussing Palm" section, why.....so it can be viewed by the most people. Thats very obvious. I haven't added anything new here, I guess what I'm trying to get across is, your the moderator, you and Angela do a great job and it's up to you two to MODERATE. These kinds of problems arise, and your in the position to decide whats best for the forum and take action.

Jeff

[Walter John]

Due to the finger pointing at moi, I have begun an investigation into this overplayed event and here's the leadup posts (in Aus times) to help me solve the puzzle, it's okay Dean, it makes a good read.:

Day one - 7:32am, the phone rings, no it doesn't but that sounds like a neat way to start.

Wal, points out a thread that belongs in Travel section and at the same time admits he is looking a bad guy for calling attention to the moderator team, and he still compliments Bruno.

"And another Travel log thread, Is there a moderator team ? Why am I the only turkey pointing this out, don't I come up shiny......................not

End of travel log threads Deano ? Whack everything in here now ? hello ? anybody home ?

These pics are sensational Bruno by the way."

Day one - 7:37am and 7:44am, Moderators acknowledge Wal's comments and return serve with good natured jibe as deserved by Wal. THAT SHOULD BE THE END OF IT...............but no, not at all, you see this story is only beginning.

Day one - 8:12am, Gileno mentions in his post that he ackowledges with no problem, in fact is humble and apologises, that his Rio BG thread should be in the Travel logs too, plus adds a funny wee gag.

"PS: I guess the thread I've started with Rio's Botanic Garden should maybe also be moved?, sorry folks...

Bon apetit, Angela...what did you guys have for lunch?"

Day one - 12:20pm, Keith from south Lousiana adds a comment with questions to the reasoning of the thread transfer and at 1:36pm Wal gives Keith the logical response as he sees it, BGs go into Travel logs.

Keith - "Wal,If it is full of nearly nothing but palms, and talking about palms, and palm identification, why must it be in the Travel Logs? What am I missing? Seems like this is more about Discussing Palms than travel adventures."

Wal - "Read the description under the travel log name."

Day one - 2:49pm, Bruno himself ackowledges that he wasn't sure at first where to start the thread and also states he will do this next time around. This is very intertesting because later you will see he makes a complete turn around, runs off, taking his ball with him and goes home.

"Sorry for disrupting the discussions. I hesitated as to where should I put that topic. But then I read: "general interest".

Isn't it general interest? OK, from now on, I'll put all my trips around Madagascar in travelog section, because I live in an "exotic place". Just like Australia, Brazil, California or Florida are for me, "exotic places"."

Day one - 5:01pm brings us to the most dramatic post so far in the saga and it's by rafiki from Cairns of all places, thanks pal for zero. You see rafiki not only states that there is whining going on but also suggests we completely

dismantle a real good working structure of the board by removing the very nicely working Travel area. It is noted that rafiki has been to Madagascar.This post I believe would have stirred up our Bruno. He too has ignored the BG concept.

"Seems all very odd.. Bruno! I got lucky and posted several topics on Madagascar palm flora on the 'Discussing palm trees etc.' and not having the 'correct site' whined about. Perhaps as Travelogs also contains lots of general interest then maybe we do not need the Travelogs site at all. What do the membership think? Excellent photos ..Bruno!"

Day one - 5:11pm brings Kris into the picture to argue on the "palms" issue and claims that some people only ever visit the main discussion area and for some reason are incapable of clicking onto the Travel section. I still love ya like a

brother Kris.

"But i have a request here to make since these threads have more of palms in predominance,why can't these topics be in main discussion boards...then once the traffic is settled down they could be transfered to the travelog section..since

those who only visit main discussion board will certainly miss out this palm extravagensa..."

Day two - 12:06am Bill enters and thinks there's an election going on for travel logs threads and where they belong. His post is half complete for some reason.

"I vote to post first in the "discussing palms" area, then once a "shelf life" has occured, move it to the travel logs area.

It was funny after hearing the comm"

Day two - 12:51am Dave (deezpalms) agrees with Bill

"I agree with BS on this. Many threads in the travel logs area don't get the attention that they would get in the main forum."

Day two - 7:24am The Moderator is concerned that Bruno's thread is being blunted by posters and will lose it's appeal and wonder if further anti transfer posts are made so advises on a separate thread for future comments.

"In order not to hijack Bruno's thread any further, you can comment on the "Travel Logs" discussion in a new topic I started in "Administration." HERE"

Day two - 2:06pm Out of the blue comes Bruno with his now famous taking my ball and going home speech complete with a full salvo blast at Wal.

" Sorry again folks, I will not keep on posting here for quite a while. I have really been put off by Wal's rude words towards the board and, at the same time, towards me. I am sure other words can be used in order to play the police around people who are on this forum mostly out of enjoyment and fun.

à bientôt. bruno"

Day two - 2:33pm and 4:44pm Moderator attempts to diffuse the situation and at the same time points out one individual was to blame and that Wal speaks funny (could these be the same people) and that further comments go to the aforementioned thread. People do not comply and moderator gets angry.

" Bruno,

Please reconsider.

Don't let one individual, who has since apoligized ( SEE HERE ), keep your valued pics and info from the rest of us.

Sometimes, especially so in the written language, the sensibilities of differing nationalities and customs are taken in a manner unintended. Knowing Wal, I am sure this is one of those times when the bluntness of the Aussie way may have been misinterpreted. I didn't take Wal's remarks personally, and I don't think you should either.

Please everyone, if you wish to comment, do so away from this thread ( HERE ) so hopefully Bruno will pick this topic up again in the near future."

"I am moving any posts that don't comply with my request above. Let me repeat:

Please everyone, if you wish to comment (other than about Nong Nooch), do so away from this thread ( HERE ), so hopefully Bruno will pick this topic up again in the near future."

And then there's more blasts here at me in this forced new thread but there's also some real good positive stuff too which fortunately wins out in the end.

As for you Bruno, I've still got your bat so if you want to come back and play I'm ready to hand it back to you. That's "aussie" or "new york" for, forget about it.

[bgl]

Wal,

Thanks for the step-by-step narrative. Two things come to mind instantly:

1) isn't it amazing that we're having this discussion in the first place? Here we are, spread out all over the planet, communicating in 'real time'. Just a few years ago, this whole scenario would have seemed like Science Fiction! Appreciate what we have here!

2) as has already been pointed out, don't take everything so seriously! We're not making any life-and-death decisions here (well, at least not yet! ). And as Dean mentioned, nothing is "set in stone", and if there's overwhelming support for a change, then we can certainly consider that.

Personally, I like the "Travel Logs" section, and as with most aspects here on the Forum, the intent isn't to police everything that's posted. There are certainly grey areas, and in those cases we'll just leave the threads where they were initially posted. The moderator team certainly has enough things to keep them busy, and don't need extra work! That being said, a trip to any botanical garden, whether it's a local trip, or a trip to a distant location, belongs in the Travel Logs section. Makes it easier to find.

Bo-Göran

[bruno]

Again, I was not complaining about where my nong nooch thread was! Simply complaining about the words that were used to say it. They really made me boil after a few hours. That's why I decided to react... badly as we can see. sorry again.

You know, between the french and the english (well, originally, lots aussies were english), the war has been raging for over a thousand years, even if the first king of England was from France... let's smile at all this.

[Gileno Machado]

I'm glad to read that things will hopefully cool down with our great palmbrothers Bruno and Wal. You guys are both too important contributors to get involved into a small disagreement like this..Please, let's relax...

Personally I think the IPS Forum has become a little too complicated to follow, especially for the newcommers, with so many subforums appearing each day. I remember some 5, 6 years ago, when we used to have only 3 separate sections, under Riffle's efficient moderation: Discussing palmtrees worldwide, Plants, other than palms and a Palapa section, where forum members could freely communicate and socialize. Now we have reached a grand total of 18 compartmented subforums and I feel that many of them could be actually be merged or lumped into the main section. I have tried to invite several palmfriends from Brazil to participate here lately and some of them (who don't speak english that well, btw) have later told me that they couldn't find exactly where the threads and pictures were shown, amongst so many other cathegories and titles. Like Bruno, I do also get cofused about where to start a new thread here sometimes: For example, I just got back from a long trip to the South and visited many public and private collections...some of the places I visited are not open to the public, like Lorenzi's amazing Syagrus collection in Campinas, where I met Larry Noblick..is that a travel log?. Another one, that belongs to a commercial nurseryman who attended the biennial in Costa Rica, Pompeu Jr, is mainly focused in palms and Cycads production in large scale, just like Palmotrafficante's great nursery thread. What about the Hotel I stayed in Ipanema, with cycads in the top floor? Well, I had to travel 2000+ km to visit these places but are they all supposed to belong to the section of Travel logs? Even the thread of Jardim Botânico do Rio de Janeiro: At first I really intended to celebrate its Bicentennial day when I started showing some of the palm photos I took there...later I realized that everyone else would enjoy if I could also add some more pictures of bromeliads, orchids, fruiting trees, etc. and so the whole thread would actually be more suited to travel logs. And what about our fellow spanish speaking folks? Should I repeat the Rio's thread there so that los hermanos también puedan comprender y participar?

What I sense here sometimes, unfortunetly, is that maybe we're getting the wrong impression that we are in some kind of competition here to see who gets more replies and pageviews for the threads we start, and this fact inhibits the contribution of others with photos and comments and also decreases the number of threads where everyone is required to give an opinion and participate together, be it a palm quiz, a palm species highlight or a poll. Of course we all get proud when we show something new that gets a great ammount of attention, but I'm sure we're all here mainly to learn, enjoy and share information...and that's what makes this forum so fantastic and our Palm community a family around the globe.

C'mon bros, behave...and let's make things smooth and easy for our great moderator Dean. And let's keep having fun with less bureaucracy and less cultural shocks. Thanks, Merci, Gracias, Obrigado.

[_Keith]

I'm glad to read that things will hopefully cool down with our great palmbrothers Bruno and Wal. You guys are both too important contributors to get involved into a small disagreement like this..Please, let's relax...

Personally I think the IPS Forum has become a little too complicated to follow, especially for the newcommers, with so many subforums appearing each day. I remember some 5, 6 years ago, when we used to have only 3 separate sections, under Riffle's efficient moderation: Discussing palmtrees worldwide, Plants, other than palms and a Palapa section, where forum members could freely communicate and socialize. Now we have reached a grand total of 18 compartmented subforums and I feel that many of them could be actually be merged or lumped into the main section. I have tried to invite several palmfriends from Brazil to participate here lately and some of them (who don't speak english that well, btw) have later told me that they couldn't find exactly where the threads and pictures were shown, amongst so many other cathegories and titles. Like Bruno, I do also get cofused about where to start a new thread here sometimes: For example, I just got back from a long trip to the South and visited many public and private collections...some of the places I visited are not open to the public, like Lorenzi's amazing Syagrus collection in Campinas, where I met Larry Noblick..is that a travel log?. Another one, that belongs to a commercial nurseryman who attended the biennial in Costa Rica, Pompeu Jr, is mainly focused in palms and Cycads production in large scale, just like Palmotrafficante's great nursery thread. What about the Hotel I stayed in Ipanema, with cycads in the top floor? Well, I had to travel 2000+ km to visit these places but are they all supposed to belong to the section of Travel logs? Even the thread of Jardim Botânico do Rio de Janeiro: At first I really intended to celebrate its Bicentennial day when I started showing some of the palm photos I took there...later I realized that everyone else would enjoy if I could also add some more pictures of bromeliads, orchids, fruiting trees, etc. and so the whole thread would actually be more suited to travel logs. And what about our fellow spanish speaking folks? Should I repeat the Rio's thread there so that los hermanos también puedan comprender y participar?

What I sense here sometimes, unfortunetly, is that maybe we're getting the wrong impression that we are in some kind of competition here to see who gets more replies and pageviews for the threads we start, and this fact inhibits the contribution of others with photos and comments and also decreases the number of threads where everyone is required to give an opinion and participate together, be it a palm quiz, a palm species highlight or a poll. Of course we all get proud when we show something new that gets a great ammount of attention, but I'm sure we're all here mainly to learn, enjoy and share information...and that's what makes this forum so fantastic and our Palm community a family around the globe.

C'mon bros, behave...and let's make things smooth and easy for our great moderator Dean. And let's keep having fun with less bureaucracy and less cultural shocks. Thanks, Merci, Gracias, Obrigado.

Gileno Machado

What a great way of stating things. Thank you.

I am of the opinion, as seems to be the Internet in general, of less structure to data and better search tools being the goal. Otherwise, one is always fighting a losing battle.

Keith

[putu enjula]

Bruno,

You can do what I do, when reading Wal's responses, I imagine hearing the words in a very thick Australian accent and suddenly it doesn't sound so bad! :lol:

(Don't worry Wal, I do that with Kris too but with an Indian accent)

Glad you two patched things up.

[Walter John]

Very funny Angela, you have overtaken me with humorous lines these days, not that mine were too funny, lucky I have thick skin, or is that accent ?

Special hi and thanks to the moderating team for your support and goodwill throughout this tournament, ah, event, ah, controversy, whatever it was.

To those who bashed me, I have one thing to say

Now, more importantly, anyone for cricket ?

[PALM MOD]

Can't keep a good man down.

Or should I say "men." I would give anything to sit down for a dinner with Bruno and Wal. I am sure that would be a great time.

[Jeff Searle]

Can't keep a good man down.

Or should I say "men." I would give anything to sit down for a dinner with Bruno and Wal. I am sure that would be a great time.

YEA......but who's paying? ....

007

[Kris]

Can't keep a good man down.

Or should I say "men." I would give anything to sit down for a dinner with Bruno and Wal. I am sure that would be a great time.

YEA......but who's paying? ....

007

[putu enjula]

Can't keep a good man down.

Or should I say "men." I would give anything to sit down for a dinner with Bruno and Wal. I am sure that would be a great time.

YEA......but who's paying? ....

007

Kris! You made me scroll down through 27 posts just to read a smiley face!