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joe_OC

Now that I have planted most of my palms for the year, I would like to incorporate Ti plants into my yard. Does anyone know which cultivars do well in Zone 10a/b? Also, is there a good source in Orange/San Diego County?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

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spockvr6

Joe-

I believe all Ti plants should do fine in 10a/b. Some will tolerate more sun than others though and they all like water.

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joe_OC

Hi Larry,

That's good to know...opens it up to a lot varieties in the yard. Are there any "must haves" that I should look for?

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putu enjula

I have found growing Ti's in Southern California fairly marginal. Out of 30 different types of Tis, only 3 really survived... and this was in coastal California. Most will do ok for a year or so then there seems to be a slow decline... a slow death. If you grow them in Cali, you need the perfect micro-climate for them to really thrive. Black Magic does well and there may be a couple others. In California, it is much more problematic for Tis than in Florida... Dry winds, low humidity, temperature extremes, snails, mites, thrips (snails especially love them!) all these factors make it a bit more challenging.

But hey nothing's totally impossible. You don't see Coco palms all over Southern California but people are still pushing the envelope and growing them there! :)

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joe_OC

Thanks for the feedback, Angela...I am close to the coast so the climate issues you listed are not a concern for me. I already have "Red Sister" and "Florida" and both have been growing well. Already experienced snails going after them and have snail bait in the planters. Have not seen thrips or mites, but will keep a vigilant eye out for them.

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Dypsisdean

Very few Ti's worked for me in coastal SoCal, and I tried a lot. Not enough heat year round when placed in the shade, and brown tipped and dry looking after Santa Ana conditions when in the sun. They looked OK for a year or so, and then just struggled. They grew great from March - August, so keeping them in pots and a greenhouse during the unfriendly rest of the time keeps them prettier. In the ground is a challenge.

A few did work, so there are probably others that would work in that perfect location, with enough snail bait, and insecticide. But there is a reason you don't see them in SoCal gardens. When you do, a lot are in a protected "patio" type environment, or recently planted.

But that shouldn't stop you from trying. We all challenge the limits here. Keep your eyes open for any that are surviving outdoors long term. Save that perfect "not too hot, not too cold" spot for a Ti or two. If you find a variety that is still looking good after 3-4 years in the ground, then you will have some good trade bait.

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putu enjula
Thanks for the feedback, Angela...I am close to the coast so the climate issues you listed are not a concern for me. I already have "Red Sister" and "Florida" and both have been growing well. Already experienced snails going after them and have snail bait in the planters. Have not seen thrips or mites, but will keep a vigilant eye out for them.

That's great! How many years have they been in the ground? Red Sister (if it is the one I'm thinking of) does pretty well in California.

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joe_OC

From what you and Dean are saying, not long enough...But my neighbor has his growing for a few years now

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joe_OC

I plan on planting them along all my block walls so they will benefit from the radiant heat. I hope that will keep them warm during the winter. I'm gonna go for it. Now I just need to get plants/cuttings.

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Kim
I have found growing Ti's in Southern California fairly marginal. Out of 30 different types of Tis, only 3 really survived... and this was in coastal California. Most will do ok for a year or so then there seems to be a slow decline... a slow death. If you grow them in Cali, you need the perfect micro-climate for them to really thrive. Black Magic does well and there may be a couple others. In California, it is much more problematic for Tis than in Florida... Dry winds, low humidity, temperature extremes, snails, mites, thrips (snails especially love them!) all these factors make it a bit more challenging.

But hey nothing's totally impossible. You don't see Coco palms all over Southern California but people are still pushing the envelope and growing them there! :)

Angela, where did you source your Ti plants? I have a large-leaved black one from Rancho Soledad and another slender black leaf, both doing okay so far; and three red types - 2 doing fairly well, 1 not so well. Only one of all these is labeled. I'd be interested to try more if I could find them. Suggestions?

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BigFrond

I don't what type it is but one guy in Oceanside has two rows of the big, fat green leaves variety along his drive way. They are huge! The trunks are about 4-6 inches on all of the plant/tree.

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realarch

There has been a Ti plant growing on the back patio for the last 20 years and although it always looks heathy, it is VERY slow growing. Sometimes I think it's in suspended animation. It's an all green one and since it always seems to hold it's own, I just leave it alone. Winter or summer, it always looks pretty much the same.

Tim

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putu enjula
I have found growing Ti's in Southern California fairly marginal. Out of 30 different types of Tis, only 3 really survived... and this was in coastal California. Most will do ok for a year or so then there seems to be a slow decline... a slow death. If you grow them in Cali, you need the perfect micro-climate for them to really thrive. Black Magic does well and there may be a couple others. In California, it is much more problematic for Tis than in Florida... Dry winds, low humidity, temperature extremes, snails, mites, thrips (snails especially love them!) all these factors make it a bit more challenging.

But hey nothing's totally impossible. You don't see Coco palms all over Southern California but people are still pushing the envelope and growing them there! :)

Angela, where did you source your Ti plants? I have a large-leaved black one from Rancho Soledad and another slender black leaf, both doing okay so far; and three red types - 2 doing fairly well, 1 not so well. Only one of all these is labeled. I'd be interested to try more if I could find them. Suggestions?

Let's see... where to begin! What I was writing about was the combined experience of Dean and I. He's the one who tried around thirty different Tis so I'll have him get back to you as to which ones he tried. My personal experience is that I brought back several cuttings from Bali (and "logs" from Hawai'i) and nursed them along until I got tiny plants (it took a good 8 mos. or so indoors). I put them outside and killed them... I was living near SDSU (inland) at the time. The other Tis I tried were just from Home Depot and were only labeled as "misc. tropical" so I don't know which one they were. I'm guessing Red Sister.

Does your slender black one look like this? This one looks a little purple in the pic but it's actually "black"

post-1234-1213854913_thumb.jpg

This one is in Hawai'i but I had this type in San Diego and it did very well... I was so excited! But then I learned it isn't actually a true Ti, it is not a Cordyline terminalis. (I'm far from an expert.. I'm trying to learn more. It's so frustating to get info on the net about Cordylines... seems there is a lot of conflicting info out there) Anyway, I thought all my Tis were doing ok until I saw how well Tis do in Hawaii... mine looked sickly in comparison. I think if I knew what I know now, I would have kept them in pots indoors for most of the year... I've read that they make good houseplants.

Matty has a bunch of seedlings... who knows, maybe he'll end up with something a little more cold hardy. :)

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putu enjula

Kim,

I just realized I didn't answer your question very well!! :lol:

I kinda did when I mentioned Matty. I'd try hitting him up for some tis in the future... :)

There's one that was doing well in Paul's yard, although I don't know if it is still alive, if so, you could ask him for a cutting.

I never saw tis in nurseries very often in SD... so I would always keep an eye out at the ol' Home Depot... Dean scored a "Black Magic" there one time.

What is good and bad about Home Depot (and Lowe's) all at once is that they just want to sell plants... they could care less if you are actually able to grow it in your area- they don't care if it croaks on you... maybe they just don't care to do any research... maybe the person who orders the plant doesn't know anything... that's why you find stuff like Coco palms, Manila palms and Veitchia there. You can find some great scores... esp. if you have a cold frame or greenhouse. Of course they have that money-back guarantee but I'm sure they're betting that you'll lose the receipt! If I were you Kim, I'd just keep my eye out at the one that's right under your nose... Sports Arena!! Also I've found tis at Lowe's in mission valley... I got a discount on them because they weren't doing so well.

BTW everyone, I'm not trying to discourage anyone from growing tis! I'm just saying it's not as easy in California as some tropical place. :)

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Kim

Thanks Angela. I guess I won't be getting any ti logs from Bali anytime soon. :rolleyes: My healthiest plants came from palm friends. Those from houseplant sections of various nurseries were a calculated risk outdoors, so I can't blame the sellers. It would be nice to have names of outdoor survivors, even if they are short-lived; it's hard to know what to look for. Dean - have any names? Maybe some of these will do better when I have more extensive canopy to protect them...someday...(sigh)...

P.S. --and is it C. terminalis, or fruticosa, or something else??

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joe_OC
I have found growing Ti's in Southern California fairly marginal. Out of 30 different types of Tis, only 3 really survived... and this was in coastal California. Most will do ok for a year or so then there seems to be a slow decline... a slow death. If you grow them in Cali, you need the perfect micro-climate for them to really thrive. Black Magic does well and there may be a couple others. In California, it is much more problematic for Tis than in Florida... Dry winds, low humidity, temperature extremes, snails, mites, thrips (snails especially love them!) all these factors make it a bit more challenging.

But hey nothing's totally impossible. You don't see Coco palms all over Southern California but people are still pushing the envelope and growing them there! :)

Angela, where did you source your Ti plants? I have a large-leaved black one from Rancho Soledad and another slender black leaf, both doing okay so far; and three red types - 2 doing fairly well, 1 not so well. Only one of all these is labeled. I'd be interested to try more if I could find them. Suggestions?

Let's see... where to begin! What I was writing about was the combined experience of Dean and I. He's the one who tried around thirty different Tis so I'll have him get back to you as to which ones he tried. My personal experience is that I brought back several cuttings from Bali (and "logs" from Hawai'i) and nursed them along until I got tiny plants (it took a good 8 mos. or so indoors). I put them outside and killed them... I was living near SDSU (inland) at the time. The other Tis I tried were just from Home Depot and were only labeled as "misc. tropical" so I don't know which one they were. I'm guessing Red Sister.

Does your slender black one look like this? This one looks a little purple in the pic but it's actually "black"

post-1234-1213854913_thumb.jpg

This one is in Hawai'i but I had this type in San Diego and it did very well... I was so excited! But then I learned it isn't actually a true Ti, it is not a Cordyline terminalis. (I'm far from an expert.. I'm trying to learn more. It's so frustating to get info on the net about Cordylines... seems there is a lot of conflicting info out there) Anyway, I thought all my Tis were doing ok until I saw how well Tis do in Hawaii... mine looked sickly in comparison. I think if I knew what I know now, I would have kept them in pots indoors for most of the year... I've read that they make good houseplants.

Matty has a bunch of seedlings... who knows, maybe he'll end up with something a little more cold hardy. :)

Cordyline Terminalis is the old name for "Ti Plants". The new name is Cordyline fruticosa. So I found a Ti grower in HI and he says the key thing with them in CA is not to get ones with a lot of white on them because they are more sensitive to cold. John at Tropical Vibe has been propagating a lot of cultivars at his nursery as well. I will probably hit him up for some. I am going to try plants as well as cuttings. I don't have a lot of experience with Ti plants, but I would figure their requirements are similar to Plumeria (which I have a lot of experience in). Wish me luck!

Also, if anyone has Ti cuttings, I would be interested in talking to you.

Joe

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Dypsisdean

Kim,

The only Ti's I could say that looked good enough for me to keep in Leucadia are the ones I've known as "Black Magic." And it sounds as if you may already have that one, a fatter leafed dark black plant. There is another one identical to that one (also called 'Black Magic' and 'Negri'), but with streaks of red in it. It doesn't grow as big, but still grows well. A very pretty plant. Unfortunately, the name 'Black Magic' may find it's way to other cultivars. I have some here in Hawaii, so I'll try and get some pics later for verification. The ones in Cali are over my head now, so they do very well, not just survive.

As to canopy. I don't think you want it in your location. All of the Ti's I put in shade did not do well. OK, they died. I don't think they received enough heat units in coastal shade during winter to survive. And your summer sun is mild enough not to scorch them (most of the time). For me, that was the dilemma. Plant in shade and they did well in summer, and plant in sun and they did well in winter. End of a dry summer in the sun and they would be stressed, and the end of a cold winter in the shade and they would be ready for the compost pile.

I would very much like to see some pics of successful long-term outdoor Ti's in California. Especially the ones Big Frond says are in Oceanside. I have never seen green Ti's growing in Cali. If those are in fact real Ti's, then a favorable micro-climate will grow more than I have been assuming. Oceanside sun and a warm radiant driveway may be the key. I have known two very good growers who couldn't keep green Ti's alive for more than a couple of years. I think these may be more tender than many of the more colorful varieties.

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Walter John

Any pictures please of the "black magic" plant ?

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Dypsisdean

I'm working on it Wal. I have to eat and plant some palms first. :mrlooney:

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Walter John
I'm working on it Wal. I have to eat and plant some palms first. :mrlooney:

Now I'm awfully glad you brought that up because as you know, I know that you have had about a thousand palms delivered recently, what I would like to see is an array of pics and listing of your recent acquirements, you have now been officially dobbed in and I hope others put pressure on you to show us your palms and at least list what species they are.

enjoy your supper :lol:

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Dypsisdean

Wal,

Just for you (and you too Kim), I skipped lunch in order to snap a few pics. Here is the Black Magic. They are the ones in the lower left of the group shot --- the shorter ones. As you can see, they are the variety with the red streak.

In that pic you can also see a small fraction of the 700 new palm acquisitions all crammed into one area for now. It will be a while before I can list or show many of them. I don't even know all that I have. Many I have never heard of. I just finished planting nine 8-10 foot Pinanga maculata under some tall tree ferns. I don't know if I can get a good pic of them though.

post-11-1213912502_thumb.jpg

post-11-1213912513_thumb.jpg

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putu enjula

All this Ti talk has made me wonder just how many tis are in our garden... so I just took a stroll... there's over 140. That's not counting the 20 I have recently propagated or my seedlings. I had no idea! :wacko: They sure do sneak up on you!!

We bought a few from Pavel Havlicek here is one of my favorites...

post-1234-1213911106_thumb.jpg

Don't adjust the color on your monitors folks! It's really that orange... like a pylon cone!

I germinated about 30 seeds and so I'll let you know if I get anything exciting! Cordylines are genetically unstable so you never know what you'll get.

There's some more pics of our tis in this thread...

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=209094

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Kim

Very nice, and good contrast with all that green. Black Magic looks different from what I have. The leaves on mine are more, what? ....ovoid and recurved, like an upside-down ebony bowl. Sort of. I guess I should take some photos, but my garden does not look like Hawaiian paradise! Ti "Pylon Cone' is very impressive. :winkie:

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ellidro

I wonder if Gary L. will chime in. In his thread about hedyscepes you can see some pretty big Ti's in some inland sun that look good. Not sure how long they have been planted there. From my experience, I have several different varieties that grew through the freeze but they were in pots. The only variety that didn't look good (but seems to have pulled out of it) was the sherbert variety. This type has lots of white in it and it seems (just like varigation) that the lighter the leaf the worse it looks in sun or cold. I plan on planting a bunch in my backyard. In a few years I'll give an update. I do have to admit this thread was a bummer to read, I had high hopes for my Ti's but now I have my doubts as I live real close to Dean's Leucadia place.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...mp;#entry209597

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Dypsisdean
Very nice, and good contrast with all that green. Black Magic looks different from what I have. The leaves on mine are more, what? ....ovoid and recurved, like an upside-down ebony bowl. Sort of. I guess I should take some photos, but my garden does not look like Hawaiian paradise! Ti "Pylon Cone' is very impressive. :winkie:

Kim,

If you can't find it anywhere, and the season is right next time I'm in town, I'll snip you a cutting off one from Leucadia.

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Dypsisdean
I wonder if Gary L. will chime in. In his thread about hedyscepes you can see some pretty big Ti's in some inland sun that look good. Not sure how long they have been planted there. From my experience, I have several different varieties that grew through the freeze but they were in pots. The only variety that didn't look good (but seems to have pulled out of it) was the sherbert variety. This type has lots of white in it and it seems (just like varigation) that the lighter the leaf the worse it looks in sun or cold. I plan on planting a bunch in my backyard. In a few years I'll give an update. I do have to admit this thread was a bummer to read, I had high hopes for my Ti's but now I have my doubts as I live real close to Dean's Leucadia place.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...mp;#entry209597

Nick,

I don't want to put a damper on anyone trying to challenge the limits. We all learn from one another. I lost a lot of palms while we as a group found out how to make a marginal plant survive. Hopefully you can learn from my experiences and find the right combination of variety and location. You have one of the best locations there is.

I just felt like Joe got the impression that most Ti's will grow in most Zone 10 locations. I don't think it's that easy, but neither are California coconuts. :) You need to do your homework.

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Kim
Very nice, and good contrast with all that green. Black Magic looks different from what I have. The leaves on mine are more, what? ....ovoid and recurved, like an upside-down ebony bowl. Sort of. I guess I should take some photos, but my garden does not look like Hawaiian paradise! Ti "Pylon Cone' is very impressive. :winkie:

Kim,

If you can't find it anywhere, and the season is right next time I'm in town, I'll snip you a cutting off one from Leucadia.

Thank you, kind sir!

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realarch

Dean , Angela, what fantastic photos. I made some cuttings for Larry(spockvr6) from the Hilo property, he posted some pics in the palm topic area. They are nothing like the ones in your photos, these aren't that spectacular. I will take a photo of the 'green' one, hopefully it is a Ti and not something else.

Dean, post some pics of those Pinanga maculata's, sounds incredible.

You up for a visitor from Hilo one of these days?

Tim

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Dypsisdean

Tim,

You are welcome for a visit anytime. We wouldn't be very good kama'aina if it was otherwise. Just give us a day's notice and we can have some pupus ready. :)

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realarch

Thanks Dean, looks as though you're upslope a bit, the Ohia look pretty large. Hope to back in Hilo end of Sept. or so.

Tim

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Kim

Took some pictures of my no-name tropic-deprived California ti plants. :) This is the big-leaf black, which has some dark green in it, now that I examine it more closely:

post-216-1213931538_thumb.jpg

With hand for scale:

post-216-1213931564_thumb.jpg

This is the thinner-leaved black:

post-216-1213931585_thumb.jpg

post-216-1213931602_thumb.jpg

I've only had these through one winter, and they're not looking splendid. I had forgotten about the very short-leaved tightly packed greenie to the left in that last pic, it really doesn't like it outdoors, came from the houseplant section.

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Kim

Now these are all in full sun, and have turned bright red as a result -- the original colors were pink with green streaks, and a burgundy with hints of green. These have all been in the ground at least 2 years, maybe 3.

You can see how pink it would be if it had a bit of shade:

post-216-1213932148_thumb.jpgpost-216-1213932168_thumb.jpg

This little one is my favorite, bought from El Blanco:

post-216-1213932192_thumb.jpgpost-216-1213932213_thumb.jpg

Even with the cold-damaged leaves, they help brighten up the garden.

post-216-1213932291_thumb.jpgpost-216-1213932307_thumb.jpg

So it's possible to grow ti plants in California, but they do struggle a bit.

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epicure3

I have never had a problem with Ti plants in regards to climate and I live in coastal San Diego, CA. I have had several varieties in the ground anywhere from 3-6 years...some have seeded and suckered and are producing more at the base. The one problem I have is their lack of salt tolerance. The will brown tip with the bad irrigation water I have. Other than that, no problems.

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joe_OC

Thanks, Kim...

That's the look I want to accomplish!

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joe_OC
Took some pictures of my no-name tropic-deprived California ti plants. :) This is the big-leaf black, which has some dark green in it, now that I examine it more closely:

post-216-1213931538_thumb.jpg

With hand for scale:

post-216-1213931564_thumb.jpg

This is the thinner-leaved black:

post-216-1213931585_thumb.jpg

post-216-1213931602_thumb.jpg

I've only had these through one winter, and they're not looking splendid. I had forgotten about the very short-leaved tightly packed greenie to the left in that last pic, it really doesn't like it outdoors, came from the houseplant section.

Kim, what's the GREEN plant around 9:00 position of your ti plant in the last picture? That looks like a green ti... or is it a draceana?

Edited by joe_OC

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epicure3
Kim,

The only Ti's I could say that looked good enough for me to keep in Leucadia are the ones I've known as "Black Magic." And it sounds as if you may already have that one, a fatter leafed dark black plant. There is another one identical to that one (also called 'Black Magic' and 'Negri'), but with streaks of red in it. It doesn't grow as big, but still grows well. A very pretty plant. Unfortunately, the name 'Black Magic' may find it's way to other cultivars. I have some here in Hawaii, so I'll try and get some pics later for verification. The ones in Cali are over my head now, so they do very well, not just survive.

As to canopy. I don't think you want it in your location. All of the Ti's I put in shade did not do well. OK, they died. I don't think they received enough heat units in coastal shade during winter to survive. And your summer sun is mild enough not to scorch them (most of the time). For me, that was the dilemma. Plant in shade and they did well in summer, and plant in sun and they did well in winter. End of a dry summer in the sun and they would be stressed, and the end of a cold winter in the shade and they would be ready for the compost pile.

I would very much like to see some pics of successful long-term outdoor Ti's in California. Especially the ones Big Frond says are in Oceanside. I have never seen green Ti's growing in Cali. If those are in fact real Ti's, then a favorable micro-climate will grow more than I have been assuming. Oceanside sun and a warm radiant driveway may be the key. I have known two very good growers who couldn't keep green Ti's alive for more than a couple of years. I think these may be more tender than many of the more colorful varieties.

Dean... I will post some pictures of mine tomorrow. I have a couple that are 5 feet tall.

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joe_OC

Epicure - You just made my day! Good to hear that ti's can thrive in coastal southern california...

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Kim
I had forgotten about the very short-leaved tightly packed greenie to the left in that last pic, it really doesn't like it outdoors, came from the houseplant section

Kim, what's the GREEN plant around 9:00 position of your ti plant in the last picture? That looks like a green ti... or is it a draceana?

Joe: Not certain of the identity; could be either. It's labeled "Tropical Foliage". :hmm:

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putu enjula
Now these are all in full sun, and have turned bright red as a result -- the original colors were pink with green streaks, and a burgundy with hints of green. These have all been in the ground at least 2 years, maybe 3.

You can see how pink it would be if it had a bit of shade:

post-216-1213932148_thumb.jpgpost-216-1213932168_thumb.jpg

This little one is my favorite, bought from El Blanco:

post-216-1213932192_thumb.jpgpost-216-1213932213_thumb.jpg

Even with the cold-damaged leaves, they help brighten up the garden.

post-216-1213932291_thumb.jpgpost-216-1213932307_thumb.jpg

So it's possible to grow ti plants in California, but they do struggle a bit.

Those look great! :)

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Dypsisdean

Good job Kim,

Looks like you have found some varieties that are an asset to your garden.

Epicure,

Looking forward to your pics and seeing what varieties are working for you. I'm thinking that the darker and mostly solid color varieties may prove the most hardy. Perhaps I should have concentrated on those, and tried sunnier exposures. For me, the lighter and more complex the color pattern, the more ragged they became, and were the first to go during a tough winter. In addition, I had no fencing, hardscape, or thicker companion planting close by that must add some protection as well.

Who else can add some pics of longer term successful Ti's in California?

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