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BS Man about Palms

Dysis White Stem (the monster one)

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waykoolplantz

or my garden......... :P

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Gtlevine

Yes, my comments are on the bold side, but Ron is a friend so I can call him out on this; Ron!, donate your White Stem and save the species. Maybe you can make a deal with the donatee that you get all the seeds when the palm matures, you can make a mint. I agree with you Jeff that Hawaii is a better option, but it is not possible to transport these large potted palms into Hawaii, it is much easier to just drive to Florida. Maybe Ron will use all those benjamins he has been accumulating and build a consevatory to plant his white stem, a viable third option.

Gary

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deezpalms

Very interesting thread here guys! I've always been amazed by this palm and accepted that this is one palm that I will most likely never have. I too think that it has the best chance of survival and setting seed one day in Hawaii however, it is illegal to bring palms into Hawaii. Unless you somehow work with the government and botanical gardens there on the Big Island it would never be allowed. This makes Florida the next best place in my opinion and most likely the reason Gary suggests taking one to Fairchild. At least I'm certain that once I move back to the islands I'll eventually be able to acquire some Dypsis sp. white ;)

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Gtlevine

Yes Dave, exactly why I suggested Florida over Hawaii. It is unfortunate that I had the opportunity to get one of these palms at one point and turned it down. I decided I did not want a palm in my garden that was going to struggle or die, even if it was the last of it's kind on the planet. Rare means nothing to me, being the only person that has a species is meaningless as well. I take the approach that if a palm is pleasing to my eyes, and it has a good chance of growing well in my garden, then I am interested. A struggling palm is always ugly and I won't bother with it. Just like the Tahina's when I was the first to have them, I gave them away to friends in Hawaii and Florida where they had a better chance to make it and thrive. For my taste, I will take a Dypsis "Big Curly" ten fold over a "White Stem". I just wish I got the White Stem now because it would be safe and sound in Florida.

Gary

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frisbee

Tissue Culture may be the right answer for this.

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LJG

If a Botanical garden in HI wanted it and there would be no reason not too, then this plant would easily get to HI. I think once people are made more aware of how rare this plant is and that it is possibly extinct in the wild, I believe import regulations can be relaxed. I bet most people had no idea how rare this plant was until Bill posted this thread. What is even more sad, is that I had heard Mardy talk about how beautiful this palm is. I am pretty sure he stated it was the most beautiful palm in Madagascar from what I remember (Am I correct Gary that he stated this?).

Also, does it have to be HI? I bet Singapore or Thailand and their top Botanical gardens would have people happy to get this too. I heard Jeff Searle talking about some new Botanical garden being built in Singapore where they are buying up rare stuff all over the world. They just purchased tons of Crotons from Jeff. So with someone spending that amount of cash, then you know they would put the money aside to properly transport and safeguard it. Who knows, maybe they would pay top dollar to buy it even.

But of course the issue is only three people has this plant. I don't see them donating or selling any soon. :mrlooney:

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cfkingfish

I agree with Jeff. As much as I would love to see one here at Fairchild, Dypsis is not a well represented genus in the garden. Priority has been traditionally given to coastal and New World palms. There are some interesting Dypsis spp., however. If anyone decides they want to donate one, contact me and I am sure I can convince Christie Jones to add it. It has been fun helping her site palms and this would be a great one. Hawaii would be better, but I hear their gardens are not as friendly?

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Urban Rainforest

I too believe the best place for this palm is Hawaii. You have to see how other Dypsis like Bejofo, Prestoniana, Nauseosa, Jurassic park etc. preform there to truly appreciate it. I also believe if the right agencies were contacted and informed of how endangered this palm is and clearly on the brink of extinction that it would be a no brainer. I also believe that Bo's garden would be perfect for this palm (he just cleared out a bunch of ohia trees to make room for it :) ) not just because every other Dypsis that he has is growing to perfection but also being the current IPS president he could document the whole event for the palms journal and this website and keep us updated on it's progress. So that brings me to my idea :blink: , I had saw on Mardy's website that he was selling a Dypsis White Stem for a cool $45,000. Well at first I thought that was nuts but when you consider that this is easily in the top 5 most beautifull Dypsis to come out of Madagascar and there not making any more It's not that outrageous. If you look at some of the things that cost a lot more like a Barry Bonds record breaking homerun ball I would much rather have the White Stem. So here is my plan :rolleyes: if Bo is interested of coarse. If we could gaurantee safe shipment to Bo on the big island and 450 of us palm freaks lay down a mere $100.00 (your just gonna put it in your gas tank anyways :lol: ) then we could purchase this palm, ship it to Bo where it has a very high 99% chance of survival and save this awesome palm from extiction!!! The upshot is eventually all who contributed would recieve a seedling or two for their investment. If there were seedlings of this palm around today they would go for well over $100.00 each but more importantly we would be saving this palm for future generations. So what do you think? I'll put my $ where my mouth is if 449 more of you are crazy enough to go along. It may be the last chance for this palm.

Steve

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Palmetro
I too believe the best place for this palm is Hawaii. You have to see how other Dypsis like Bejofo, Prestoniana, Nauseosa, Jurassic park etc. preform there to truly appreciate it. I also believe if the right agencies were contacted and informed of how endangered this palm is and clearly on the brink of extinction that it would be a no brainer. I also believe that Bo's garden would be perfect for this palm (he just cleared out a bunch of ohia trees to make room for it :) ) not just because every other Dypsis that he has is growing to perfection but also being the current IPS president he could document the whole event for the palms journal and this website and keep us updated on it's progress. So that brings me to my idea :blink: , I had saw on Mardy's website that he was selling a Dypsis White Stem for a cool $45,000. Well at first I thought that was nuts but when you consider that this is easily in the top 5 most beautifull Dypsis to come out of Madagascar and there not making any more It's not that outrageous. If you look at some of the things that cost a lot more like a Barry Bonds record breaking homerun ball I would much rather have the White Stem. So here is my plan :rolleyes: if Bo is interested of coarse. If we could gaurantee safe shipment to Bo on the big island and 450 of us palm freaks lay down a mere $100.00 (your just gonna put it in your gas tank anyways :lol: ) then we could purchase this palm, ship it to Bo where it has a very high 99% chance of survival and save this awesome palm from extiction!!! The upshot is eventually all who contributed would recieve a seedling or two for their investment. If there were seedlings of this palm around today they would go for well over $100.00 each but more importantly we would be saving this palm for future generations. So what do you think? I'll put my $ where my mouth is if 449 more of you are crazy enough to go along. It may be the last chance for this palm.

Steve

I think this is a good idea, I will also put 100 bucks out of my pocket.. now we only need 448 more palmnuts! :mrlooney:

Christian

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Gtlevine

Everything is for sale for a price from Ron Lawyer (Neoflora). Come on Ron, make us an offer and lets get your palm shipped out to Bo Goran in Hawaii. Bo can get this baby seeding in 10 years and distributed around the world. Like you Steve, I will put my money up if Ron will sell it. Ron has a much healthier specimen in a pot than Mardy has. Mardy's potted specimen is recovering from a funk it was in. Lets keep in mind shipping costs, 45,000 is too high and $100/member probably won't fly for most members. But $5,000 or even $10,000 is reasonable and we can all pitch in and save the palm. As an incentive, I propose each of us that donates money for the palm gets first crack at the seeds when Bo gets a harvest. Lets not forget Mardy who discovered the palm, we need to get this palm named after him. Mardy is probably the man responsible for the discovery of a half dozen or more palms from Madagascar that have not been named after him, but this one no one can deny him as the sole person responsible for the discovery.

I'm in, who else is on board?

Gary

Edited by Gtlevine

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bgl

Steve,

That's quite a scheme, and I'm flattered for the thought you've obviously put into this plan. And I'm ALMOST on the verge of thinking you may be serious. BUT, that being said, and in the unlikely event that someone may actually think of this as a serious possibility, I have to decline any such potential offer. I would decline no matter what, but especially after I was elected President of the IPS last month, this could easily be seen as a conflict of interest. From a practical point (no matter who the potential Hawaii recipient might be) I can see two stumbling blocks. The first, which has already been pointed out, is the fact that it's illegal to ship palms from the U.S. Mainland to Hawaii. I have no idea if there's a legal way around this. The second stumbling block would be to get 450 people to fork up $100 each. I don't see that happening any time soon! BUT, if the practical aspects were to be worked out, then a semi public garden like Hawaii Botanical Garden north of Hilo might be a good home.

Bo-Göran

Edit: and I just want to point out that I was typing my response as Gary was posting his reply above.

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Urban Rainforest

Bo,I did'nt meen to put you on the spot but actually I was SERIOUS :winkie: but I totally understant your position and how it might be a conflict of interest but I still think it is a good idea and that Leilani Estates would be the perfect climate for this palm. People have brought lots of palms over there. I know Botanical gardens can access plants from around the world. Hmnn...maybe Jerry or Jeff?

Steve

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Walter John
Clayton, This palm White Stem may be the rarest palm today. Tahina, not rare! Everybody in the world just got seeds. We are talking about maybe 4 palms total in existence. Yea and you always have the wise guy masking a crack about how someone has it cheaper. Yea right! Get a grip! It should go somewhere tropical without an EGO! Maybe back to Madagascar! Don,t have the answer. But one can be had for the right price. Any rich guys out there?

???

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oliver

I'll put up $2000 for 20 seedlings to my children, to save a species which might otherwise go extinct - at whatever garden on the Big Island.

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Urban Rainforest
I'll put up $2000 for 20 seedlings to my children, to save a species which might otherwise go extinct - at whatever garden on the Big Island.

Thats what I'm talking about!!! I think this may be the answer to this palms survival. It's not good to put all your eggs in one basket (So Cal). It will be a sad day if the last remaining ones die and were left with nothing but pictures saying should have could have would have.

Steve

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ellidro

Would the IPS contribute to or match any funds raised by its members. I joined the palm society in Southern California to gain info about palms and their culture in my area. I joined the IPS for more global reasons like saving palms from extinction. How do I make a motion for the IPS to contribute funds toward saving this palm? That being said I (like Gary) feel the price needs to be reasonable.

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palmtreesforpleasure

Can the person get a tax deduction in the US when donating to IPS, If a value can be agreed to on this palm can the person who donates it get a tax credit. Is it possible to donate it to IPS then IPS sends it to the appropriate garden or can the person donating it get a tax credit,

Remember reading once that when valuable items are gifted to an institution in the US there are tax concessions,

would this work for the owners of these palms. Maybe the palm could be named after the person who donates, the name and the memory of the generous donor would live on forever and inspire others.

just a thought

regards

Colin

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galveston1602

If this scheme becomes a reality, Id be in on it and put some money up.

Bo,

Im not sure what the conflict of interest is (as long as ips isnt spending money) If ips money is used, then sure, I see where that conflict comes from. that all said, I think a public garden is probably a more realistic answer as they could negotiate the "red tape" that is in play to get a palm to HI.

I know none of the people involved in this but, I suspect the most viable option is to talk to one of these palm owners about a "realistic price" considering that were talking about moving the palm to a public garden in HI and hopefully having it named after them in the future. It would be a very real chance for them to cement their legacy forever!

Surely theyd be at least open to discussing it with us.

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BS Man about Palms

Steve- I was actually thinking about something like what you said yesterday....Great minds think alike. :lol:

Since I was interested in this palm enough to start this thread, I'm in!

Plus, do we alert J. D. only when a palm is seeding, or can it be before?

Bill

Bo- If you don't want to have this in your yard because you are the new IPS prez., I'll be happy to start a recount! :unsure:

I think it would recieve the best unbiased care at your place. (For the love of the palm, not how you can benifit from it.)

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Urban Rainforest
Steve- I was actually thinking about something like what you said yesterday....Great minds think alike. :lol:

Since I was interested in this palm enough to start this thread, I'm in!

Plus, do we alert J. D. only when a palm is seeding, or can it be before?

Bill

Bo- If you don't want to have this in your yard because you are the new IPS prez., I'll be happy to start a recount! :unsure:

I think it would recieve the best unbiased care at your place. (For the love of the palm, not how you can benifit from it.)

Bill, Thanks for starting this thread about this most interesting palm. When I first joined the PSSC some of my favorite journals were the ones that had articles written by Mardy about this palm, big curly, OCWS and other rarities. My guess is that this is something new not in POM. This palm is so endangered as to not even be on CITIES radar :hmm: .

Steve

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LJG

I know people are fired up about this, but hopefully someone in a Hawaiin Botanical Garden or at Nong Nooch Botanical Garden for example would step up. Since most gardens are single generation events, it is important to look past the individual. A BG does this and would be the best bet not at someones house.

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tropicalb

I agree with Len....a BG would seem to be a good place for it.

Edited by tropicalb

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horn toad

Even little kids have an easy time with this one...I'm definitely in for $100...If this species goes the extinction route it will be a sad day for everyone and a telling legacy for some....The big question...If you really like palms, why wouldn't you want this species in the tropics or sub-tropics, where it has a fantastic chance at surviving and producing viable seed for future generations? The ideas of conservation biology and biodiversity preservation, or I should say the lack of them, led these rare plants to end up here in So. Cal in the first place...Yet, I get the feeling that the lessons of deforestation in Madagascar have not been learned well enough or forgotten. Habitat preservation is key of course, yet when that fails, then some type of scientifically based propagation program should be undertaken where the species has its best chance for survival and successful reproduction. When the condor population was reduced to 18 or so, and all the eggs and birds put into captive breeding, the ultimate goal was species preservation and reintroduction into the wild. Get Dypsis white stem producing seeds somewhere here in the U.S. and ultimately get it back into botanical gardens or conservation areas of Madagascar where it belongs. The long term plan is of the essence, and it doesn't sound like the chances for survival in San Clemente or Vista are in the best interest of the species at this point given people that have extensive palm and Madagascan experience, and solid financial resources are still having difficulty growing this treasure. If these thing grew like a D. baronii or something it would be a mute point, but they don't and something proactive is necessary.

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Utopia Palms

Hi All

All of these are great ideas but as Quarantine regulations have changed so much over the last few years you might want to check into the Quarantine regulations in a little detail for these larger plants, for example must all the soil be removed if you are permitted to send the palm into Hawaii? Must they be dipped and treated in any way? If so what are the chances of the palm surviving this trip?

I’m sure many of the form members are more interested in protecting the palm from extinction and are willing to donate towards this!!

Not all would be able to receive plants Australia, New Zealand, etc and many other countries these days have Very strict Quarantine regulations and can only receive seed.

I’m sure there are a few quite Australians and other forum members willing to donate to save a rare endangered species! But I for one would rather the seeds go to Botanical gardens maybe in Australia for my donation as one day my garden could suffer the same fate and some one with no interest in plants could come in and cuts them all down.

Ps I still think that maybe Fairchild Bot or as Garry mentioned Montgomery Botanical Garden would be both very safe places to place one of these palms, as there would be no Quarantine restrictions and the soil would not have to be removed. :hmm:

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bgl

I'd like to address a couple of issues that were brought up:

Yes, the IPS is a non-profit organization, and a donation to the IPS is tax deductible. That being said, the IPS has never been involved in a scenario like this before. If this were ever to happen, I'm fairly certain that the Board of Directors would insist on the palm going to a suitable public garden.

The conflict of interest I was referring to is the fact that IPS Directors are not supposed to benefit from their positions as a Directors. Granted, the particular section in the Bylaws (....no Director or any affiliate of any Director shall be entitled to receive any asset, property or compensation of any kind from the IPS unless approved in advance by the Board of Directors - Article V, Sec. 10) only refers to compensation directly from the IPS, but my personal feeling is that it would be improper for a Director (and especially an Officer) to receive a gift like the one that's being discussed here.

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ariscott

Botanical garden is definitely a way to go, as I have seen many mature gardens are being cut down once the owner moved on. For example, a friend just is selling up and moving up the road. He had the most gorgeous and mature garden, full of mature palms (including attleya and corypha) and cycads. I would hate to think the new owner might think the palms are too much trouble and cut them all down. Just my 2 cents....

Tropical Australia (well, in this case Townsville, Cairns or Darwin) of course is the best place, if you ask me for selfish reason, of course... but might not be a good idea due to our quarantine.

Regards, Ari :)

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Walter John
Steve- I was actually thinking about something like what you said yesterday....Great minds think alike. :lol:

Since I was interested in this palm enough to start this thread, I'm in!

Plus, do we alert J. D. only when a palm is seeding, or can it be before?

Bill

Bo- If you don't want to have this in your yard because you are the new IPS prez., I'll be happy to start a recount! :unsure:

I think it would recieve the best unbiased care at your place. (For the love of the palm, not how you can benifit from it.)

Don't let go of this one Bill, this is your destiny. Here's a summary so far.

  • Everyone wants to do something to conserve this palm
  • Hawaii is out, at least Bo. (thanks Bo for your honesty and stoutness) (don't laugh, stoutness is a good word)
  • Forum people and probably palm societies are willing to donate funds
  • Botanical gardens look the best bet for best care/attention
  • Local (USA) look even better bets (no restrictions apart from actual handling) for this to occur, namely Florida BGs
  • Still yet to hear some positives from the palm owners though and time is ticking

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palmtreesforpleasure

Hi Bo

To summarise

Botanical garden n Florida seems the only option -Yes

IPS donations are tax deductible in the USA-Yes

Can the donor of a palm get a deduction if the palm is given an agreed value??

Does IPS believe in primarily the sharing of palms genre and species information leading to their survival - Yes

Maybe the directors could approach the owners of the palms and see if their is a mutual way forward for the benefit of all concerned

regards

Colin

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epicure3
Since either Ron or Mardy won't do this, you can count on Dypsis "White Stem" to become extinct.

Gary

Why won't they do it? I guess if they own them they can keep 'em but, if they ever change their minds, I would be happy to U-Haul those palms to Fairchild.

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Kim

This is my initial pledge for $200. I'm interested in supporting this effort, and agree a botanical garden seems the best solution. Botanical gardens have charters and foundations to provide support and funding beyond a single person's lifetime, and who knows how long before these palms produce viable seed? Additionally, I suggest acquiring as many of these palms as possible, not just one. I agree with horn toad that a scientifically based propagation program should be established and it should be a condition of receiving the palm. To see this palm reintroduced to Madagascar sounds like a wild dream considering it is nearly extinct right now, and considering the continued deforestation of Madagascar, but that should be the ultimate goal.

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tropicalb

re-introduction into habitat is a REAL gamble when you are talking about near extinct flora, especially when the reason for the destruction of the palm in the first place was human destruction of the plants natural habitat.

In other words, mostly due to human interference, the conditions that made the plant viable in the first place are almost always no longer in existance in the plants original locale.

they've been unsuccessfully trying this with cycads in SA for years.

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MattyB

This is a tough spot to put Ron &/or Mardy in. They have the goods and can charge any asking price they see fit. But a palm that's too expensive will just sit and not sell. In the case of this palm that could quite possibly lead to extinction of the species. I'm sure that they've thought about this and have obviously choosen to hold onto the palms hoping to get a fat asking price. One part of me wants to say that that is just plain wrong and selfish. But they do have a rare item and deserve to benefit from their hard work in acquiring and maintaining it, and who am I to say that they shouldn't get a million dollars for it and may they be happier for it. In the end, I think I'll have to step back from it and get a little perspective. Yes it's sad that there's only a few of these palms left in the world. But when all is said and done, it's only a palm. No one is gonna die or get hurt if it goes away. Really, the survival of the species could possibly be in the hands of Ron or Mardy and it's up to them to decide what they want to do, and not for me to judge them for their action or inaction. Just my point of view.

I'm in for $40 of the group purchase/donation of this palm. I don't need any seeds.

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Dypsisdean

I don't know Florida, or Florida climate much at all.

However, I do know that reportedly there are areas of Florida that are not kind to some of the montane Dypsis such as D. decipiens and D. 'mad fox.' It appears as if there is a limiting factor such as excessive night time temperatures at play. Gary mentioned that this palm comes from the southern montane forest of Madagascar, which would indicate even cooler night time temps in it's native habitat.

Hopefully someone in Florida with knowledge of the climates of these BGs could comment on how other of these montane Dypsis are doing in these gardens. Everyone has assumed this palm will grow in Florida. It would be a shame to go through all this, only to have it go the way of D. decipiens or the 'Mad Fox' in So. Florida.

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MattyB

I didn't think of that. I was thinking of hurricanes though. Maybe someplace upslope in Cost Rica would be safer.

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Dypsisdean

If, and I say if, there is enough willing money between PalmTalk Members and the IPS (and others), perhaps it would be money better spent to sponsor an expedition to Madagascar with 2 or 3 of the more experienced palm enthusiasts and Madagascar travelers to make sure there is not another "White Stem" somewhere on the island. It could become an expedition for some of the other rare or unique species there as well, for the purpose of "saving" some. And if we are talking tens of thousands of dollars here........................................???

I can think of several here in this Forum and elsewhere who would gladly volunteer --- maybe even contribute a tidy sum to be part of such a trip. I believe J. Dransfield and Jeff Marcus are going in a few months. Maybe they could be persuaded to make a journey south if supplied with extra funds.

Excuse me for thinking "outside the box," it's a bad habit of mine. :)

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bgl

There's a lot of interesting ideas and good intentions in this thread, but a saying that I heard a long time ago comes to mind. I don't remember it too well, but it went something like this:".....Everybody thought Somebody would do it, so Nobody did it...". Point is, good intentions is a good beginning but unless a dedicated individual decides to take charge and get something done NOTHING will happen. And this is a bit more complicated than just (hopefully) collecting the money. And personally, I have enough IPS related issues to juggle.... Consider the following - in order to make this happen we would need (and not necessarily in this order):

1) to negotiate with the seller and arrive at a realistic price

2) get pledges from enough people to at least get reasonably close to whatever the price is

3) identify a public garden where the palm is likely to thrive AND discuss the specific details with the management of that garden; i.e. what would be the safest and quickest way to transport the palm, and are there any legal aspects to getting it done? (For instance, if that garden is in Hawaii, or outside of the USA).

I reserve the right to add anything else to this list that I didn't think of at this very moment...! :mrlooney:

EDIT: Dean, just saw your post after I added mine. And you should know that "thinking outside the box" is encouraged! :lol: Every year the IPS gives out X amount of money in grants from its Endowment Fund. The money goes to individuals who are doing various types of palm related research. However, I have a strong hunch that a grant request for just a "blind" Madagascar excursion looking for this particular palm probably wouldn't stand much of a chance of getting funded. I'm sure John Dransfield and/or Scott Zona would be able to provide more detail as to what's necessary in order for a grant request to be looked at seriously.

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elHoagie

Interesting topic, and a gorgeous palm. Just a couple thoughts on my part...

If it's from the montane south of Madagascar, will it even survive in hot and humid south Florida?

Also, south Florida is risky because of hurricanes.

I'm not sure Florida is much safer than SoCal...

There are enough rich plant collectors in SoCal that eventually someone will pay $50,000 for this palm. So, I can understand why the owner would ask this much for the plant. It'd be tough to donate or sell for a reasonable price, when you know you could get so much more.

Still, I won't donate any money to pay for an overpriced palm. It seems like that would just encourage this type of thing (find a rare plant, keep it to yourself, sell it for piles of money). That type of behavior will only lead to more plants going extinct.

I would love to see the white stem in a public garden in Hawaii, or somewhere else with a similar climate, where there's a very good chance it will set seed. I'd also be willing to contribute $100 towards making that happen, but only if the palm can be purchased for a reasonable price.

EDIT: Looks like Dean and Matt made the same points while I was typing up this response... Anyway, I like Dean's thought of supporting a research trip to Madagascar. I'd much rather do that than pay gobs of money for a single plant.

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Dypsisdean
There's a lot of interesting ideas and good intentions in this thread, but a saying that I heard a long time ago comes to mind. I don't remember it too well, but it went something like this:".....Everybody thought Somebody would do it, so Nobody did it...". Point is, good intentions is a good beginning but unless a dedicated individual decides to take charge and get something done NOTHING will happen. And this is a bit more complicated than just (hopefully) collecting the money. And personally, I have enough IPS related issues to juggle.... Consider the following - in order to make this happen we would need (and not necessarily in this order):

1) to negotiate with the seller and arrive at a realistic price

2) get pledges from enough people to at least get reasonably close to whatever the price is

3) identify a public garden where the palm is likely to thrive AND discuss the specific details with the management of that garden; i.e. what would be the safest and quickest way to transport the palm, and are there any legal aspects to getting it done? (For instance, if that garden is in Hawaii, or outside of the USA).

I reserve the right to add anything else to this list that I didn't think of at this very moment...! :mrlooney:

EDIT: Dean, just saw your post after I added mine. And you should know that "thinking outside the box" is encouraged! :lol: Every year the IPS gives out X amount of money in grants from its Endowment Fund. The money goes to individuals who are doing various types of palm related research. However, I have a strong hunch that a grant request for just a "blind" Madagascar excursion looking for this particular palm probably wouldn't stand much of a chance of getting funded. I'm sure John Dransfield and/or Scott Zona would be able to provide more detail as to what's necessary in order for a grant request to be looked at seriously.

Bo,

You are right, and I don't think you need to come up with any more "obstacles" than you have already.

Knowing both of the individuals involved (and I doubt anyone will argue), your first point is obviously a major hurdle.

And also knowing the difficulty of actually collecting donations (especially for one live plant - sight unseen), I would think we have a very difficult plan before we even get to your third point.

And Bo, I was thinking more along the lines of the IPS contributing a portion of the funding if there was enough interest shown from other sources. And it wouldn't be a search for just this one palm. It could be wrapped in a larger well planned mission to locate some of the other unique endangered species such as the one recently discussed in another thread. With the clout of the IPS and connections in Madagascar, such as Bruno (and the success and notoriety we recently had with Tahina), perhaps a worthwhile expedition could be accomplished with the blessing and assistance of the Madagascar "government."

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Dypsisdean

One more sobering thought and I'll shut up.

Now that we have advertised this palm and it's potential value to the world, instead of these growers building a conservatory in California to try and grow it to maturity, perhaps they should start looking for a climate controlled bank vault with a sun roof.

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Kim

The advantages of Fairchild Tropical Bontanic Garden include the existence of the Center for Tropical Plant Conservation, as well as a Palm Conservation Program, a Palm DNA Bank, and a Palm Specialist Group whose members include Scott Zona, John Dransfield, Andrew Henderson, Larry Noblick, and Mijoro Rakotoarinivo, just to name a few. It happens to be in Florida, but if comparable facilities and staff specific to palms (with excellent security!) exist in California, Hawaii, Madagascar, or ??? please mention them.

Finding this palm in Madagascar may be possible; or you could spend a large amount of money on an extensive expedition and come up with nothing. The destruction of habitat has been terribly intense.

An appeal to the better angels of their nature may bring the price down, but there have been costs in acquiring the palms that should not be ignored entirely. There could be room for negotiation. Personally, I would rather be remembered as one who helped save a palm from extinction, than as one who sealed its fate.

Any negotiator would have to be a professional. This is not an amateur gig.

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