ElHoagie was right

[SunnyFl]

ElHoagie - we had disagreed over drought tolerance of St. Augustine grass.  Unfortunately, I was only speaking from personal experience with the stuff in my yard.

I've been doing a lot of reading on warm-season grass for our area - I ran across a field study done in (I think) TX.  They studied drought effects on St. Aug grass varieties - the difference was quite large.  8 varieties tested, some failed miserably.  Floratam was outstanding.  Isn't this variety used a lot out West?

My grass is just the common St. Aug, not one of the better varieties (certainly not Floratam).

So you're right - the better varieties are drought-resistant.   And I shouldn't have judged the whole species by the junk growing in (and soon to be gone from) my yard.

[ruskinPalms]

The lot of my house (and the whole development) was sodded with floratam. SO, this is a good variety? Really, the stuff they put in here seemed to come with a lot of weeds anyway.....And believe me it turns yellow if you  do not fertilize and water it.

[spockvr6]

Ill be blunt!

My opinion...St. Augustine "Floratam" in lousy!

This is what my yard is sodded with and I am not impressed!

Its terrible with drought and terrrible with shade (it dies out either way) and is a buffet for Cinch bugs.  I cant imagine any grass being worse!

As I resod various areas of my yard, I am using St. Augustine "Palmetto".  This stuff is probably no better with drought and bugs, but at least its supposed to be more shade tolerant.

[SunnyFl]

(spockvr6 @ Sep. 13 2006,06:33)

QUOTE

Ill be blunt!

My opinion...St. Augustine "Floratam" in lousy!

This is what my yard is sodded with and I am not impressed!

Its terrible with drought and terrrible with shade (it dies out either way) and is a buffet for Cinch bugs.  I cant imagine any grass being worse!

As I resod various areas of my yard, I am using St. Augustine "Palmetto".  This stuff is probably no better with drought and bugs, but at least its supposed to be more shade tolerant.

One thing I noticed from all the grass info out there - it's all contradictory.

Could be that ruskin's problem isn't just drought - it may also be salinity if he's near brackish water.

I am putting Palmetto in the one area where the St. Aug isn't totally torn up, to fill the ripped up areas.  Still thinking maybe zoysia, maybe Palmetto for the rest of it.

Palmetto's supposed to be better than Floratam, but who knows?  At least it's shorter!

I'm trying to limit grass areas b/c it's such a pain.  Always needing chemicals and ferts and too much water.  As much or more than the palms, if we want it to look good.

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Sep. 13 2006,07:13)

QUOTE

One thing I noticed from all the grass info out there - it's all contradictory.

My entire neighborhood was sodded with Floratam when built (2000 to 2003 or so).  Right now, Id say at least 25% of the houses have major Cinch bug problems!   This is the time of year that they show up I guess.

I saw one neighbor down the street resodding his entire side yard yesterday.  It appears hes given up on the idea of a pristine St. Augustine lawn as the pallet of new sod was Bahia!

[spockvr6]

(SunnyFl @ Sep. 13 2006,07:13)

QUOTE

I am putting Palmetto in the one area where the St. Aug isn't totally torn up, to fill the ripped up areas.  Still thinking maybe zoysia, maybe Palmetto for the rest of it.

Palmetto's supposed to be better than Floratam, but who knows?  At least it's shorter!

I'm trying to limit grass areas b/c it's such a pain.  Always needing chemicals and ferts and too much water.  As much or more than the palms, if we want it to look good.

Same here Sunny.

Any areas I resod are Palmetto.  As mentioned, its reported better than Floratam in shade and the fact that its a shorter and "denser" looking grass works for me!  I think that visually its a nice looking grass.

[Exotic Life]

Does that grass species grow here in the netherlands ? Do someone have a picture of this grass. The most of the time i like the grass in your gardens more then the grass here ...

[elHoagie]

Thanks Sunny.  I didn't even know there was more than one kind of St. Augustine...

[spockvr6]

(elHoagie @ Sep. 13 2006,14:06)

QUOTE

Thanks Sunny.  I didn't even know there was more than one kind of St. Augustine...

I dont know how many there are these days, but there are quite a few.  It seems like there is a new "hot one" every year!

Floratam seems to be the most widely used (at least a few years ago), but this other one called "Del Mar" seems to be used alot these days.

The previously mentioned "Palmetto" also seems to be more widely used as well.  

From the little bit I know fo St Augsutine, I would not use Floratam if given the choice.  But, around here, Floratam is the cheapest variety ($1 per piece while Palmetto is $1.25) so I suspect this is why many devlopers/builder will choose it.

[Dave-Vero]

In Florida, the St. Augustine goes crazy during summer wet spells--mowing every 4 or 5 days may be advisible.  In the winter, it can putter along with far less water than the usual irrigation system provides.  In fact, if the irrigation system is spewing brackish/highly mineralized water, it may do more harm than good.  

And overwatered St. Augustine always has dollarweed (Hycrocotyle).  

The good news is that if the chinch bugs stay at bay, St. Augustine can (almost) overwhelm bermuda grass, which hangs on by slithering around looking for thin spots.

[spockvr6]

(Dave-Vero @ Sep. 13 2006,21:36)

QUOTE

In Florida, the St. Augustine goes crazy during summer wet spells--mowing every 4 or 5 days may be advisible.  

Aint that the truth Dave!

Mine could easily be mowed twice a week.

Sometimes, after I am done mowing, I look back at my work and wonder if I already need to do it again

[spockvr6]

(Dave-Vero @ Sep. 13 2006,21:36)

QUOTE

 In the winter, it can putter along with far less water than the usual irrigation system provides.

No doubt......in winter this grass is great.  I only need to mow it every 2-3 weeks and the water usuage drops way down.  Its just not hot enough (and the sun isnt intense enough) to burn the grass (as can happen in summer if the lawn hasnt been rained on or watered at least every other day).

[SunnyFl]

(Dave-Vero @ Sep. 13 2006,21:36)

QUOTE

In the winter, it can putter along with far less water than the usual irrigation system provides.  In fact, if the irrigation system is spewing brackish/highly mineralized water, it may do more harm than good.  

Dave, are you familiar with a grass called Seashore Paspalum - trade name Sea Isle 2000?  It's touted as being tolerant of brackish water - which St. Aug probably isn't.

I think someone was using it in your area and I was wondering what it was like.  Our HD carried it one year - I remember seeing the plugs - but I haven't seen it since.  

And overwatered St. Augustine always has dollarweed (Hycrocotyle).  

  Oh yeah, we have had so MUCH rain here that the dollarweed is crowding out the regular weeds!  Too bad it only grows in wet conditions - in the right spot, could be a nice groundcover.

I had to bring in my R. glaucas - they don't like getting too wet - and even had to apply some hydrogen peroxide.... and yep, it's raining right now.

The good news is that if the chinch bugs stay at bay, St. Augustine can (almost) overwhelm bermuda grass, which hangs on by slithering around looking for thin spots.

 Is Bermuda that very fine-leaved grass, kind of a greyish green that grows from runners snaking on top of the ground?

[SunnyFl]

(spockvr6 @ Sep. 13 2006,21:45)

QUOTE

(Dave-Vero @ Sep. 13 2006,21:36)

QUOTE

In Florida, the St. Augustine goes crazy during summer wet spells--mowing every 4 or 5 days may be advisible.  

Aint that the truth Dave!

Mine could easily be mowed twice a week.

Sometimes, after I am done mowing, I look back at my work and wonder if I already need to do it again

I hate mowing the #$%$# stuff!

And yeah - I mowed this past weekend and it's already in need of more mowing!

This is made worse b/c my St. Aug in front is gone - all I have is the weed grasses that took over after the ruts left by all the equipment driven over it.

Larry, maybe we won't have to mow so often, once we get the Palmetto sodded in.  It's a dwarf, so it should stay shorter.

Or so we can hope.

[SunnyFl]

(Exotic Life @ Sep. 13 2006,13:58)

QUOTE

Does that grass species grow here in the netherlands ? Do someone have a picture of this grass. The most of the time i like the grass in your gardens more then the grass here ...

Hi ExoticLife,

What zone are you in?  There are different varieties of St. Augustine - some hold up to cooler temps than others.   It's a thick-bladed grass that keeps weeds out a bit better than other types.

I don't know if you can import the living plugs, what the import laws are.  They haven't had much luck growing it from seed, from what I've read.

I haven't any pictures, but here's a website that has some (although they don't export):

http://www.saintaugustinegrass.com/

[Dave-Vero]

From the Flora of North America:

"Stenotaphrum is a genus of seven species that usually grow on the seashore or near the coast, primarily along the Indian Ocean rim. Three species are endemic to Madagascar, and one species is thought to be native to the Flora region."

Stenotaphrum secundatum now seems to have a worldwide distribution along coasts.  It was collected in the Carolinas before 1800, so may be native to coastal southeastern North America.

It really seems happiest in a nearly tropical or tropical climate.

[SunnyFl]

The paspalum looks like a nice grass, and very well-suited to rainier areas.  It sure seems salt-tolerant, too, growing right into brackish water.

I'm hoping that I'll be able to get a pallet or two of Zoysia next month - I've been hearing more indications that it has a bit more drought-tolerance than the grass we used to have.

[Bilbo]

Jack:I have a private pic (not for publication) of you over the palm forest in the chopper and you sure look real awed by that sight and ready to jump!  

. . .  and I thought you US guys were all air minded.

Anyway you did real well tho I suspected you were something of an aviation virgin!

Actually over here our guys are often recommended for air training over there in the States esp Florida cos its cheaper even with travel and accom (our CAA having similar standards to your FAA) including now (I think) recovery from the spin which has always been essential over here).

Jack: get that pilots ticket now!

You will never know how much we may need you !!!

                                           

Regardez

Juan

[elHoagie]

(Bilbo @ Nov. 10 2006,10:09)

QUOTE

Jack:I have a private pic (not for publication) of you over the palm forest in the chopper and you sure look real awed by that sight and ready to jump!  

. . .  and I thought you US guys were all air minded.

Anyway you did real well tho I suspected you were something of an aviation virgin!

Actually over here our guys are often recommended for air training over there in the States esp Florida cos its cheaper even with travel and accom (our CAA having similar standards to your FAA) including now (I think) recovery from the spin which has always been essential over here).

Jack: get that pilots ticket now!

You will never know how much we may need you !!!

                                           

Regardez

Juan

Jon,

Yep, it was my first time in a helicopter.  I was getting a little sick from the motion, but nothing too serious...

Jack

[Jeff Searle]

(elHoagie @ Nov. 15 2006,18:35)

QUOTE

(Bilbo @ Nov. 10 2006,10:09)

QUOTE

Jack:I have a private pic (not for publication) of you over the palm forest in the chopper and you sure look real awed by that sight and ready to jump!  

. . .  and I thought you US guys were all air minded.

Anyway you did real well tho I suspected you were something of an aviation virgin!

Actually over here our guys are often recommended for air training over there in the States esp Florida cos its cheaper even with travel and accom (our CAA having similar standards to your FAA) including now (I think) recovery from the spin which has always been essential over here).

Jack: get that pilots ticket now!

You will never know how much we may need you !!!

                                           

Regardez

Juan

Jon,

Yep, it was my first time in a helicopter.  I was getting a little sick from the motion, but nothing too serious...

Jack

Jack,

   So that explains why that lady said her seat was a little sticky.