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Dec. 1989 freeze photos


Eric in Orlando

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the jacksonville pindos and spanish moss did fine as seen in these screenshots from a 1989 video of the snow and ice.

5c1a71b1c7b02_ScreenShot2018-12-19at11.2

5c1a71b40983d_ScreenShot2018-12-19at11.2

 cant tell if this palm is dead (sabal? washingtonia?) jacksonville florida 1989

5c1a71d715690_ScreenShot2018-12-19at11.2

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  • 3 months later...

Footage from April 1990 still showing severe damage to Queens and Phoenix at Epcot at Disney World. I guess they left them there for a little while to see if some would come back.

You can see the famous Phoenix reclinata clumps in front of the Spaceship Earth exit building. I wonder if the ones there today are the same or if they had to replace them.

1811085929_19901.PNG.77c1546b2fb59bb39190dc0148c2b4bb.PNG

1273724596_19906.PNG.cd0993aac34c36ea11be28686310be3b.PNG

776485012_19904.PNG.ca164ec11e5a13d5dfb602d0c4bfacc2.PNG

1739141945_19908.PNG.f67bfe78eaaee21a201fb493dcc691a0.PNG

Even large Phoenix at MGM Studios looked to have been trimmed to remove damage. That was one tough freeze if P. canariensis or datcylifera took damage.

2051352415_19909.PNG.e82faf41abe4d01928a4d0b97b6f933a.PNG

1411131211_19907.PNG.ade620b6fedf9850d74df7bb2eb6718c.PNG

Some more footage from August 1990 with damage still evident at the Polynesian resort- I'm thinking those on the right were probably zone 9 hardy semi-tropical trees that had been severely cut back.

1692905635_199011.PNG.dd24461c3451a70a3bf63ceef0a9263a.PNG

997062718_199010.PNG.8ca20ce09af25cdcdfc61c859795e4e6.PNG

Edited by Matthew92
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Oh wow, cool images. The cut back trees at the Polynesian were probably Ceiba speciosa, Tipuana tipu or Peltophorum dubium. there is also a big Ficus macrophylla there that had canopy damage then.

I think the P. reclinata survived but most of the queens died. They replaced the queen palms and now in recent years have been losing them to fusarium and they are being replaced with Wodyetia. Just like some Washingtonia robusta are being replaced with Livistona decora as they die from fusarium or lightning.

Dec. 1989 was brutal, we had 2 nights around 20F with a high around 35F in between. I remember some P. canariensis having leaf burn and also W. robusta.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Goodness. If that happened again, my entire yard would need replaced! Coco, Christmas palms, foxtail, bottle, majesties, plumeria, red copper, pygmies. Almost all of these are already a challenge with our fickle winters.

Edited by pj_orlando_z9b
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I sincerely hope I'll be retired in a few more years and won't have the worries!!!

Searle Brothers Nursery Inc.

and The Rainforest Collection.

Southwest Ranches,Fl.

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11 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

Oh wow, cool images. The cut back trees at the Polynesian were probably Ceiba speciosa, Tipuana tipu or Peltophorum dubium. there is also a big Ficus macrophylla there that had canopy damage then.

I think the P. reclinata survived but most of the queens died. They replaced the queen palms and now in recent years have been losing them to fusarium and they are being replaced with Wodyetia. Just like some Washingtonia robusta are being replaced with Livistona decora as they die from fusarium or lightning.

Dec. 1989 was brutal, we had 2 nights around 20F with a high around 35F in between. I remember some P. canariensis having leaf burn and also W. robusta.

My low this year was 20F, for about 1-2 hours.

Any idea what the temp limitation is of Phoenix Reclinata? I have thought about trying a few Reclinata's, but I figure they will gas out in my climate. My CIDP, Dactylifera & Washingtonia seem to be thriving here though, as it is relatively mild and dry.  

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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Pure P. reclinata is burns around 28-29f, similar to P. roebelenii. In FL many are hybrids so there is widely varying hardiness. After the big '89 freeze the pure or mostly pure specimens had severe damage and many had stems killed. Most came back drom the roots but some were killed outright. Others that were hybrids had burn and some had no damage at all. 

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Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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  • 4 years later...

Another photo surfaced of the damaged palms near the fountain behind Spaceship Earth at Epcot in Disney World. This was recently posted on the Facebook page called "The Mickey Wiki." I'm thinking this was from Dec 1989, but it's possible it was from January 1985. 

No photo description available.

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10 minutes ago, Matthew92 said:

Another photo surfaced of the damaged palms near the fountain behind Spaceship Earth at Epcot in Disney World. This was recently posted on the Facebook page called "The Mickey Wiki." I'm thinking this was from Dec 1989, but it's possible it was from January 1985. 

No photo description available.

Had to have been one of the 1980s freezes for sure to have damaged queens down that far.  Pretty scary considering what is currently planted along I-4.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Definitely the 85 or 89 freeze. The 12/89 freeze is the last time I have seen cold damage on queen palms in this area.

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Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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On 3/28/2019 at 7:49 PM, Matthew92 said:

Footage from April 1990 still showing severe damage to Queens and Phoenix at Epcot at Disney World. I guess they left them there for a little while to see if some would come back.

You can see the famous Phoenix reclinata clumps in front of the Spaceship Earth exit building. I wonder if the ones there today are the same or if they had to replace them.

1811085929_19901.PNG.77c1546b2fb59bb39190dc0148c2b4bb.PNG

1273724596_19906.PNG.cd0993aac34c36ea11be28686310be3b.PNG

776485012_19904.PNG.ca164ec11e5a13d5dfb602d0c4bfacc2.PNG

1739141945_19908.PNG.f67bfe78eaaee21a201fb493dcc691a0.PNG

Even large Phoenix at MGM Studios looked to have been trimmed to remove damage. That was one tough freeze if P. canariensis or datcylifera took damage.

2051352415_19909.PNG.e82faf41abe4d01928a4d0b97b6f933a.PNG

1411131211_19907.PNG.ade620b6fedf9850d74df7bb2eb6718c.PNG

Some more footage from August 1990 with damage still evident at the Polynesian resort- I'm thinking those on the right were probably zone 9 hardy semi-tropical trees that had been severely cut back.

1692905635_199011.PNG.dd24461c3451a70a3bf63ceef0a9263a.PNG

997062718_199010.PNG.8ca20ce09af25cdcdfc61c859795e4e6.PNG

Imagine the replacement cost, when ticket prices were $30.

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On 10/16/2023 at 10:43 AM, SeanK said:

All of the tropical flora and fauna of South Florida appears to be unaware they are not supposed to be living in the climate of their home. You should send out a memo informing them of your climate designation so they know to either die or migrate south accordingly.

 

 

Edited by cocoforcoconuts
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It’s all good till it’s not. That’s the approach I’ve taken. This is where I live. I zone push. May last decades or months. It’s the risk we take. How unique can we make it where we live and for how long. 

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22 minutes ago, Bkue said:

It’s all good till it’s not. That’s the approach I’ve taken. This is where I live. I zone push. May last decades or months. It’s the risk we take. How unique can we make it where we live and for how long. 

That's pretty much the theme I've encountered everywhere I've traveled across the country.  There are certain areas where people like to push things more than others.  Then there are areas where not many seem to be pushing at all.  It's all pretty random.

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4 minutes ago, RFun said:

That's pretty much the theme I've encountered everywhere I've traveled across the country.  There are certain areas where people like to push things more than others.  Then there are areas where not many seem to be pushing at all.  It's all pretty random.

Finally starting to see more push around me. Ucf put in a bunch of royals. I see randoms in owners yards. My neighbor is a large commercial landscaper and mostly makes the recommendations. He won’t zone push due to liability. Only thing that will change the overall is availability and neighboritis with commercial. I hope we see a temperate weather pattern but unsure. There is plenty of historical pictures and documentation that suggest species were at one time commonplace here but are now taboo and hardly available. 
 

if we could get the big box stores to bring in some historically relevant plants they might take. They are too concerned with their guarantee. That said, they randomly bring in coconuts, bottles, clusia, etc. 

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13 hours ago, Bkue said:

Finally starting to see more push around me. Ucf put in a bunch of royals. I see randoms in owners yards. My neighbor is a large commercial landscaper and mostly makes the recommendations. He won’t zone push due to liability. Only thing that will change the overall is availability and neighboritis with commercial. I hope we see a temperate weather pattern but unsure. There is plenty of historical pictures and documentation that suggest species were at one time commonplace here but are now taboo and hardly available. 
 

if we could get the big box stores to bring in some historically relevant plants they might take. They are too concerned with their guarantee. That said, they randomly bring in coconuts, bottles, clusia, etc. 

Oh yeah, that happens too.  The once common plants get taken out, for whatever reason, by nature.

From what I've observed, the customer is going to be overly concerned with the guarantee (which, of course, there is none).  The sellers aren't going to go hog wild over anything that isn't too "safe".  That being said, in practice, you usually don't see anything very extreme in the landscape.

I can't imagine all of the changes in the landscape around Disney World since I first went there in the latter 1980's.  At that time, that area was coming out of a period where they saw some serious cold snaps.  I do know that with the more recent times I went there, it definitely looks much more "palmy" than I ever remembered that area being.

Edited by RFun
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3 hours ago, RFun said:

Oh yeah, that happens too.  The once common plants get taken out, for whatever reason, by nature.

From what I've observed, the customer is going to be overly concerned with the guarantee (which, of course, there is none).  The sellers aren't going to go hog wild over anything that isn't too "safe".  That being said, in practice, you usually don't see anything very extreme in the landscape.

I can't imagine all of the changes in the landscape around Disney World since I first went there in the latter 1980's.  At that time, that area was coming out of a period where they saw some serious cold snaps.  I do know that with the more recent times I went there, it definitely looks much more "palmy" than I ever remembered that area being.

I was just thinking, when we were there in the late 1980's, it was March.  We went to Disney World and the temps were in the 50's and windy.  Lol, seemed pretty surreal.  Not a lot of people on that day.

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  • 2 months later...
27 minutes ago, Matthew92 said:

Another photo I just found on Twitter of the queen palms by the Fountain of Nations at Epcot at Disney World. There wasn't a date, but I'm thinking this was after Dec 1989.

The hairstyles, dress, and sunglasses are certainly supportive of 1980s or early 1990s when everyone wanted to look like Duran Duran, Tears for Fears and/or MacGyver

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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58 minutes ago, Matthew92 said:

Another photo I just found on Twitter of the queen palms by the Fountain of Nations at Epcot at Disney World. There wasn't a date, but I'm thinking this was after Dec 1989.

spep.thumb.JPG.a29900e8adac9c6323e2d0b1d7f63cca.JPG

Link for original tweet https://x.com/BrianPMiles/status/1746657072077214078?s=20

 

Musta been pretty cold. Queen on the far right is just a stump.

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