Phoenix roebelenii - considering a trim of old leaves

[Walter John]

I can't make up my mind whether to trim the old leaves of this palm, I'm leaning towards leaving it alone for a natural look and to save the chances of being stabbed.

The questions are, what would you do ? And, do any of you trim these old leaves from your dwarf date palms ?

Palm in question:

[Phoenikakias]

I used to do it every year on mine. I have not done it for the last two years and I have already regreted, because mine grow in clump of 4 and the skirt of dead leaves makes hosing difficult. I do not feel intimidated by leaves armament, having to cope with bigger leaves armed also by bigger more pungent spines of other Phoenix spss.

[palmislandRandy]

Wal, In South Florida when you see a robellini like yours it's usually in front of a foreclosed home. I do trim mine as the dried spines are just as pointy as green ones.

[CYPALMS]

I have a dozen robellini's and i always trim the leaves whose petiole drops below the horizontal level. It is the same point when the leaves start going brown also, so i guess they are useless from this point onwards. The palm looks nice without those so i dont find a reason to keep them on.

[sur4z]

I just trimmed mine at the office

[Walter John]

Thanks for the responses, um, well, I'm still not convinced, what to do, what to do.

Is there anyone FOR leaving it alone and not trimming ? that natural look would be gone for good.

[Jim in Los Altos]

If it had an orderly, attractive "skirt" of old fronds that would be one thing but I can't see anything attractive about dead or dying fronds on a P.roebelenii. I think they detract from the rest of the healthy green fronds and the palm as a whole. I vote for removal.

[sonoranfans]

I had several multi(3-4) roebelinii once that grew so many new fronds a year it became a real hassle, a single might not be so bad. No palm has stabbed me more times, but the 2nd most frequent offender(and easily the most painful ) was a phoenix reclinata hybrid. With roebelinii, the slender dead fronds seemed to resist cutting, especially when damp. That plus the preponderance of leaves with thorns(hundreds)meant I got stabbed numerous times every time I trimmed. When I moved into my new house a few years ago a large triple roebelinii greeted me on the way to the front door. In my first landscaping move I ripped it out, remembering the many stabbings. I feel like I have paid my roebelinii and reclinata dues. A single roebelinii palm might not be so bad, and that one looks easy. Id say do what you want, if you want that skirt keep it. You are the one who knows the cost.

Edited July 27, 2013 by sonoranfans

[Neel]

You just inspired me to go out and trim mine

Edited July 28, 2013 by Neel

[Jeff Searle]

Personally for me, I would never, ever let them hold all of these dead leaves. Unsightly to say the least. And I NEVER,EVER trim the leaves and leave a portion of the stem with remaining thorns on them.

[_Keith]

Cut em'

[rick]

As a result of the previous owners south florida "landscaping" I have 50+ of these thorny monsters. Trimming them is a literal pain but they really do look so much better trimmed up. The old frond will eventually fall off but without trimming by the time that happens its covered by many thorny layers making it nearly impossible to grab without getting stabbed. On a single like yours its not too bad but the longer you wait the worse it will be.

[Eric F]

Time to invest in some pole-mounted hedge trimmers

[Daryl]

Just remove it at the base of the trunk and you won't have to worry about trimming...

Daryl

[Walter John]

[Kostas]

I would leave it alone Wal and wait for natural leaf dehiscence,maybe helping it a little to start happening without using force though. It look beautiful as it is anyway,so why bother? The dead leafs don't detract from the look of a healthy palm that nature designed it to hold a skirt of them. On the other hand,if nature designed it to not keep a skirt of them,they will soon fall under their own weight!

[Walter John]

I would leave it alone Wal and wait for natural leaf dehiscence,maybe helping it a little to start happening without using force though. It look beautiful as it is anyway,so why bother? The dead leafs don't detract from the look of a healthy palm that nature designed it to hold a skirt of them. On the other hand,if nature designed it to not keep a skirt of them,they will soon fall under their own weight!

I like what you say Kostas.

[Jim in Los Altos]

If I left many of the palms in my yard the way nature intended, I'd have a very unwelcoming landscape with all the old leaves making walkways impassable, blocking windows, covering valuable planting space beneath them, and generally just looking like I, as the homeowner, don't care about my garden enought to manicure it properly. Let the palms in their habitat be that way but I don't think most gardens could support many plants or trees of any kind that were left as "nature intended". Just my 2 cents.

[Tropicgardener]

Just remove it at the base of the trunk and you won't have to worry about trimming...

Daryl

My sentiments exactly Daryl........I tell people around here to plant Adonidia instead.

[Kostas]

Jim,your garden is awesome and really manicured to perfection I agree that certain bigger palms take up a lot of floor space once they start trunking and before they clear our heads and these may need to be trimmed for our ease of passage but even these,once they are overhead,don't need any trim to coexist with the plants around them. I also find that cycads and palms planted at the base of other palms don't care if they are engulfed in the canopy of the bigger palm for a while till it grows taller.

As for the use of live ground cover or simply fallen leafs,I think that's just personal preference and the look one is after. Fallen leafs for example are much more beneficial to palms and plants than ground cover or accent plants are and require much less water,time and care. Sure the look and the feel of the live ground cover is really nice too. That doesn't mean that one style is worse or the opposite,just personal preferences. Wal's garden also has the more natural approach of dead leafs and everything in many parts as its located at a beautiful,forested area so I think that P. roebelinii fits right in! It's not a big palm in a tight spot to need trimming for functional reasons

Thanks Wal

[PalmatierMeg]

We also trim our pygmy date trio whenever fronds dip below vertical. We cut off inflorescenses because we don't want seeds. I think the exposed knobby stems have beauty. I agree that the "natural" has merit but not if that means messy or shabby. My opinion of course and not worth much. Wal, you want to leave your palm as-is so why seek validation?

[Phoenikakias]

Jim,your garden is awesome and really manicured to perfection I agree that certain bigger palms take up a lot of floor space once they start trunking and before they clear our heads and these may need to be trimmed for our ease of passage but even these,once they are overhead,don't need any trim to coexist with the plants around them. I also find that cycads and palms planted at the base of other palms don't care if they are engulfed in the canopy of the bigger palm for a while till it grows taller.

As for the use of live ground cover or simply fallen leafs,I think that's just personal preference and the look one is after. Fallen leafs for example are much more beneficial to palms and plants than ground cover or accent plants are and require much less water,time and care. Sure the look and the feel of the live ground cover is really nice too. That doesn't mean that one style is worse or the opposite,just personal preferences. Wal's garden also has the more natural approach of dead leafs and everything in many parts as its located at a beautiful,forested area so I think that P. roebelinii fits right in! It's not a big palm in a tight spot to need trimming for functional reasons

Thanks Wal

Watch out that you do not step on a snake's tail under fallen leaves!

[Funkthulhu]

I'm for trimming as well.

I have a significant other who doesn't quite share my love of all things palmy and tropical. My little Phoenix, well coifed, has been allowed a place of honor in our living room. If I didn't keep it well managed I'd have a much harder time getting her to let me put anything else in there and I think it would be a longer harder road to helping her come to an appreciation for these plants.

As for the spines, I take the damaged and down & brown fronds all the way to below the first thorn, the rest on the healthy fronds are enough to keep the cats at bay. But I still use heavy gloves and safety glasses, just in case!

[Peter Pacific]

Wal, cut that sucker! Or better yet, get someone to get it for you! You haven't been bitten until you cleanup a Phoenix sylvestris!

Peter

[Jonathan]

I would leave it alone Wal and wait for natural leaf dehiscence,maybe helping it a little to start happening without using force though. It look beautiful as it is anyway,so why bother? The dead leafs don't detract from the look of a healthy palm that nature designed it to hold a skirt of them. On the other hand,if nature designed it to not keep a skirt of them,they will soon fall under their own weight!

Well spoken young man.

Leave it alone Wal, I can tell that thats what you're leaning towards.

Funky as a monkey and as natural as a bee!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[akamu]

Cut them off I have some that are 12ft tall and they look much nicer trimmed it does not hurt the plant plus you now have canopy

[Walter John]

Thanks for all the input, it was very useful, I'm leaving the palm alone for now. Thanks again.

The End

[Kris]

dear wal

cut the dried leaves as and when they start drying up.when the dried phoenix leaves pileup it becomes little difficult to cut without getting poked.and the tools needs to be sharp.

and a small intro of my taste is that I love cidp most when its trimmed to look like a pineapple...

and in my opinion a trimmed garden with plants looking spic and span is a beautiful garden.

love,

kris.

[Kim]

Rather late to add my two cents, but it is a mistake to confuse a garden with nature. They may overlap, but they are not one and the same. I had some P. roebelenii and kept them trimmed. My new location came with a few, and I keep the fading leaves trimmed. Much easier while green than dry, and no black widow spiders breeding in them!

[DoomsDave]

Oh, Wal, there are reasons to keep them untrimmed.

Imagine Moses parting the Red Sea -- clean-shaven? Yike! Or our beloved Abraham Lincoln? (I'm sure Oz has a bearded hero or two. Or three . . . )

Your palm has that patina of venerable experience that only comes with time, and non-trimming.

And, there won't be any spikes in the fingers if no one trims them.

Of course, Moses likely had other critters hiding in his beard (maybe Black Widdas would have been better) but that's the price one pays. Yes, yes, there's the possibility of fire, but Moses kept his beard away from the candles and the lamps.

[KennyRE317]

Wal, In South Florida when you see a robellini like yours it's usually in front of a foreclosed home. I do trim mine as the dried spines are just as pointy as green ones.

same here, good thing we don't see that many of those out here anymore