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Licuala cold hardiness


edbrown_III

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I was going through Hendersons Book Palms of Asia ---

I hadnt ever thought of Licuala as cold hardy but saw some of the ranges of the species up to Northern Vietnam and high elevations --- Could any of these species be tolerant of light frosts and zone 9a minimums? I am curious about the board members experiences -- mcuh obliged for any anecdotal information ( the best kind) or commentary

Best regards

Ed

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I was going through Hendersons Book Palms of Asia ---

I hadnt ever thought of Licuala as cold hardy but saw some of the ranges of the species up to Northern Vietnam and high elevations --- Could any of these species be tolerant of light frosts and zone 9a minimums? I am curious about the board members experiences -- mcuh obliged for any anecdotal information ( the best kind) or commentary

Best regards

Ed

Ed , we get cool and sometimes very cold winters, but one that looks its absolute best in winter as far as colour goes is Licuala Dasyantha. This stunning Licuala is Very under estimated on its cold hardiness potential, we have around 18 different licualas, but i reckon Dasyantha as long as its out of freezing wind and a little overhead canopy will grow for you for starters, and its one of the best looking Licualas. What is your minimum temp in c please Ed. Pete heres a pic to entice you to try one :)

post-5709-081391400 1322254181_thumb.jpg

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Pedro,

Good to hear from you will do!--- we are zone 9a 20F minimums every 10 years --- about -5C--- 1985 it got down to -12C but this hasnt happen since.

Last winter was a -5C winter how cold does it get where you are?

Best regards

Ed

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I was going through Hendersons Book Palms of Asia ---

I hadnt ever thought of Licuala as cold hardy but saw some of the ranges of the species up to Northern Vietnam and high elevations --- Could any of these species be tolerant of light frosts and zone 9a minimums? I am curious about the board members experiences -- mcuh obliged for any anecdotal information ( the best kind) or commentary

Best regards

Ed

Ed , we get cool and sometimes very cold winters, but one that looks its absolute best in winter as far as colour goes is Licuala Dasyantha. This stunning Licuala is Very under estimated on its cold hardiness potential, we have around 18 different licualas, but i reckon Dasyantha as long as its out of freezing wind and a little overhead canopy will grow for you for starters, and its one of the best looking Licualas. What is your minimum temp in c please Ed. Pete heres a pic to entice you to try one :)

sure is a beautiful plant!

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Pedro,

Good to hear from you will do!--- we are zone 9a 20F minimums every 10 years --- about -5C--- 1985 it got down to -12C but this hasnt happen since.

Last winter was a -5C winter how cold does it get where you are?

Best regards

Ed

Ed, Wow, thats um very cold :blink: , our gardens here where the Licualas are growing would never go below plus 3c. Ed, i would still give it a go, who knows how cold hardy they really are? As i said ours has its best colour in winter and also in winter it gets NO sunlight what so ever where it is planted. All Best . Pete

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Licuala dasyantha could be the most cold hardy licuala in its genus.Interesting enough is its mottled leaves with yellow dots or rings,making it bit of like Mapu.

Apart from other tropical Licuala, it has good cold hardiness based on the growing experiments reported. Say in 2002, the 1 year old seedling and adult palms did get notice any damage after 2 continuous raining days as low as -2C(28.4F) in Guilin City, Guangxi Province ,China where the lowest temperature goes down to -5C.

licuala_dasyantha_like_mapu.jpg

IMG_4713.JPG

I previously posted a thread with details of this species.You may check for reference http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=25658&st=0&p=425013&hl=+licuala%20+dasyantha&fromsearch=1&#

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Garry do these things stop brown tipping with age? I get severe brown tipping and leaf die back even with minimal fertilizer and even if I use RO water only. Does anyone else have this issue?

Len

Vista, CA (Zone 10a)

Shadowridge Area

"Show me your garden and I shall tell you what you are."

-- Alfred Austin

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Licuala dasyantha could be the most cold hardy licuala in its genus.Interesting enough is its mottled leaves with yellow dots or rings,making it bit of like Mapu.

Apart from other tropical Licuala, it has good cold hardiness based on the growing experiments reported. Say in 2002, the 1 year old seedling and adult palms did get notice any damage after 2 continuous raining days as low as -2C(28.4F) in Guilin City, Guangxi Province ,China where the lowest temperature goes down to -5C.

licuala_dasyantha_like_mapu.jpg

IMG_4713.JPG

I previously posted a thread with details of this species.You may check for reference http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=25658&st=0&p=425013&hl=+licuala%20+dasyantha&fromsearch=1&#

Thanks for the information, and good to hear from you.

I had L. spinosa many years ago and lost it so I gave up on the genus but the good luck I am having with Chuniophoenix Guihia etc plus the book which detailed the ranges of these makes me re evaluate-- much obliged for information

Best regards

Ed

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I have two pretty big Licuala Spinoza's and there are a few others around my neighborhood. They all survived with minimal damage during our last two winters, which everyone were our two worst in a VERY long time.

The winter before last we dropped into the low 30's F and had an entire week of sub 50 F weather which is unheard of. Last winter was not as bad, but it basically killed off what ever was too weak to survive both blasts.

Manny

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Garry do these things stop brown tipping with age? I get severe brown tipping and leaf die back even with minimal fertilizer and even if I use RO water only. Does anyone else have this issue?

HI LG, I too have seen this leaf die back which ended up killing some of my seedlings and affecting the remaining three. I found that this may be caused by changes in humidity stressing the leaf tips. My solution was using small clear plastic bags to cover them completely, leaving no gaps where humid air can escape. In a few days you should see the bag fog up and condensation should progress steadily. I can report spectacular results, stopping completely and permanently the leaf browning, speeding up growth, and not having to water as often. Good luck!

By the way those are stunning palms Garry!

Frank

 

Zone 9b pine flatlands

humid/hot summers; dry/cool winters

with yearly freezes

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Len,

I do have brown tips seen in my licuala seedlings like cycas debaoensis and that is probably caused by fungus attack as it normally happens in hot and wet summer and so when the rain seasons comes, I put them back under the roof and dry them a little bit after spraying fungicide and pesticide , it eases before pushing up more new nice spears.

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I always grab a Licuala or two or three from Jeff's sales. I put them in the ground to see what makes it. I'm shocked at how many are doing well in the ground after the last few winters. My temps have only bottomed out at 25f but I have had frost. The only ones that suffered were the grandis. I lost two of my three. The one that survived looked dead but started pushing new growth. I have in my yard L. kunstleri,lauterbachii ,paludosa,peltata (split leaf and entire),ramsayi and a few others that I can not remember the names. There is one I picked up from Jeff S. the species starts with an M ( lost the tag and can not find it online) that is growing very well for me. I'll continue to throw them in the ground at will. all of them get some kind of frost protection even if it is just a towel thrown over them.

With a tin cup for a chalice

Fill it up with good red wine,

And I'm-a chewin' on a honeysuckle vine.

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I keep my seedlings in a tray filled with water and pebbles to keep the humidity up.

With a tin cup for a chalice

Fill it up with good red wine,

And I'm-a chewin' on a honeysuckle vine.

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Tiki Tiki and Gary

Good to hear from you---

I reckon I need to look closer at this genus --- I had dismissed it as they look so delicate and tropical

Best regards

Ed

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  • 11 years later...

I got 1 for few years not tall maybe 2 feet i was told after yr or so it get hardier but i didnt take a chance yet .I pulled to patio and there it survive usda 9a in Jacksonville w/o damage.

 

Edited by Zoltan
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I am growing them out in Jacksonville but under canopy , they have been out in cold weather abotu a decade .  Seen alot of cold but it never got as cold as it did in 2010.

Ed

 

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I haven't tried Lanonia Dayasantha in the cold yet, but Sumawongii, Spinosa, regular Peltata and Aurantiaca did really well with lows last winter at about 24-26F.  They all had some frost protection, which definitely helped.  My Grandis is under the edge of the roof canopy and was ok with 28F and frost...except for the 1 leaf that was sticking out and exposed to the actual frost.  That leaf got torched and died.  :D

On deck I have more Spinosa and Peltata ready to plant, and smallish Aurantiaca, Distans, Fordiana, Ramsayi and a bunch more Sumawongii. 

I found that Sumawongii can barely tolerate full sun here in Orlando, and just grows faster, bigger, and greener in shade.  So I won't try it in full sun again, but AM sun and PM shade seems to work pretty well.

Anyone have experience with Ferrunginea, Kunstleri, Lauterbachii, Maculata, Parviflora, Platydactla, Rumphii, Thoana, or Triphylla?  I was thinking of doing another Floribunda order but can't find a lot of hardiness info on them.  What I could find said that Ferrunginea, Kunstleri, Parviflora, Platydactyla and Tryphylla are supposed to be barely 30F hardy.  But Aurantiaca is not supposed to be too hardy either, and mine did just fine at 25F with canopy...

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Since moving to the low desert in California (Palm Springs area) I am surprised how well the Licualas I've tried have done. The one I am most impressed with is Licuala glabra v. selangorensis. This palm has seen from 31F to over 120F (albeit under a NE-facing porch, in shade with just a touch of morning sun) and looks absolutely perfect, even after this long, cold fall/winter period (four months of consistently below-average temperatures). I also have surviving (and generally uncomplaining) seedlings of L. ramsayi, a small L. peltata v. sumawongii planted out under canopy, plus a couple of one-gallons of the more marginal L. grandis, and a small L. distans. They look okay except that L. distans surprisingly enough has had a lot of setbacks and looks like it is struggling, it was a really tough survivor for me in the Florida Keys, including after the inundation of Irma...so I am more than a little surprised to see it so wimpy out here. And L. grandis was also remarkably tough, it went through horrible wind and saltwater inundation there in Irma, and I took them all for dead, but they started pushing spears after a while and ultimately petered out since I didn't work very hard to flush the salts out of the soil around them, but I have always remembered their strength...and hence I have two L. grandis in their second year outside here, they sat under that NE-facing porch-overhang, threw a stunted leaf or two last year after the cold but are mostly okay, moved now to a winter suntrap area under canopy to help them chug along this year.

When we lived in Natchez, Mississippi (cold 9a), I tried a number of Licualas just for the fun of it and discovered that L. fordiana was almost unkillable (well, 13F in 2018 finally killed it!)...leaves would burn off somewhere in the low/mid 20s but it would come back every spring. And L. peltata v. sumawongii sat out in our courtyard under a live oak without complaining and I didn't even bring it into the greenhouse until temps went below 28F. I killed a Lanonia dasyantha because I planted it out right before that 13F happened. Am trying again this year with one out here in the California desert. But in short, I think the species in this genus (well, both Licuala and Lanonia) are often hardier than many of us have assumed. 

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Licuala fordiana and Lanonia dasyantha continue to grow for me in the middle of "winter". I've been hovering in the 35-45F range for the past few days with rain/drizzle and the Lanonia is opening a new leaf and pushing another spear...I'm impressed. They have been protected on the handful of days below 25F since planted in 2021 but otherwise fend for themselves. 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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Thanks for all the in-depth information, I had no idea the hardiness of Licuala under such diverse conditions. I know many in the genus grow at high elevations and can withstand colder temps, but am surprised they can handle long term low humidity. 

Michael, you alluded to your L. distans suffering and immediately thought of how thin and flexible their leaves are compared to others in the genus. Maybe they are less hardy because of this trait. 

I’m growing only a handful of Licuala primarily because when I was doing most of my planting years back, I thought they all looked too similar. I’m glad now I planted what I did, I’m liking them more and more, such a unique palm.

You guys should add some photos with your posts to give those interested in trying some of these species an idea of what to expect from your experience. 

Tim

 

Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

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Tim, I think there must be something funky with this one small plant of L. distans I have here, it's just holding one leaf right now and boy this was a strong species for me in the Keys, which is really quite a harsh environment in many ways, yet it flourished with virtually no irrigation (and there's rather less annual rainfall than you might suppose there, by the way), took all the saltwater Irma could throw at it...and so I will probably try again, but right now I'm just happy I can keep L. grandis alive outside in Palm Springs of all places, and the superb performance of this L. glabra v. selangorensis (which I had never heard of, but bought from Jeff Marcus on a whim). It's a very pretty species, and I just received two larger specimens from Jeff two days ago, and so am very happy just to have something in the genus with excellent year-round appearance that I can make a bit of a statement with. I have found that most species can thicken or otherwise adjust their lamina and make whatever morphological changes with their stomata, cuticle thickness, etc. on a new set of leaves, it just requires the patience of letting that process happen in the shade, then in dappled sun as appropriate. Then the leaves seem much tougher to some adversity (within reason).

Of course I'm shocked to hear you are in Hilo and not growing many Licuala...if I were in a wet climate like yours I think I would grow a gazillion L. grandis, it is so sculptural and offers so many design opportunities...let alone all the other gorgeous species like ramsayi, peltata, cordata, et al...there's so much variety in the genus, not only in leaf but in growth-form and height. When I was in my 20s I thought most of the split-leaf members of the genus just looked like a weird oversized Rhapis and I was quite disinterested...many years later I have changed my opinion!

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Michael, trust me, I have some beauties and rather than blow up this thread, I’ll post in a more appropriate place.

Tim

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Tim

Hilo, Hawaii

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On 2/3/2023 at 9:19 PM, mnorell said:

When I was in my 20s I thought most of the split-leaf members of the genus just looked like a weird oversized Rhapis and I was quite disinterested...many years later I have changed my opinion!

When I first started on palms ~5 years ago I had just some leg-and-arm-slicing Serenoa Repens in my yard.  I hated these with a passion.  If the leaf blades didn't slice me, the wasps that lived in them definitely did!  A couple of neighbors had big stands of Rhapis Excelsa, and I thought they just looked like weird saw palmettos-on-a-stick.  Then I saw L. Grandis and Sumawongii, and ignored the other Rhapis and Licuala.  Now that I've got a few areas with some canopy starting, I am really getting into the other split-leaf Licuala.  At some point I'll have a beast like this Ramsayi at Leu Gardens:

767215312_20211029_132319LicualaRamsayi.thumb.jpg.34db8c084f4ccd5fa4eeb8feaaa76a5a.jpg

And of course I didn't get the tag on the smaller one on the bottom right, maybe a Spinosa?

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