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Do you like Copernicia alba?


Alberto

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Click here: (Spanish and English version )

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=26307

  • Upvote 1

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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A totally great palm for central and south FL and the warmest parts of north FL. In the last 10 years it has started to be used but needs to be much more. One of the top palms for this area that we promote.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Thanks for the link Alberto (and Pindo)...

These are fantastic palms. Here are a few lovely ones, nicely cultivated at Inhotim Institute in Minas Gerais that we visited this year:

post-157-032241900 1292528561_thumb.jpg

post-157-076730700 1292528706_thumb.jpg

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Sirinhaém beach, 80 Km south of Recife - Brazil

Tropical oceanic climate, latitude 8° S

Temperature extremes: 25 to 31°C

2000 mm average rainfall, dry summers

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This sp. looks very much like C prunifera .

Here is one of a few planted at Whyanbeel I watched grow from small seedlings .

post-354-056751600 1292540434_thumb.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Michael in palm paradise,

Tully, wet tropics in Australia, over 4 meters of rain every year.

Home of the Golden Gumboot, its over 8m high , our record annual rainfall.

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I love how the bottom boots stick to the trunk and reveal a nice smooth trunk the rest of the way up. Was at Gisella Kopsick arboretum today admiring this palm, the fruit as it hangs is admirable also. The macroglossums they have their are real showstoppers though, they have gotten very nice over the last few years.

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Aren't they considered to be very slow growers until they start to form some trunk? I ask because I think I have a very small one planted in the garden and it is very slow growing.

Hawaii Island (Big Island), leeward coast, 19 degrees N. latitude, south Kona mauka at approx. 380m (1,250 ft.) and about 1.6 km (1-mile) upslope from ocean.

 

No record of a hurricane passing over this island (yet!).  

Summer maximum rainfall - variable averaging 900-1150mm (35-45") - Perfect drainage on black volcanic rocky soil.  

Nice sunsets!

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I like them and have several seedling planted out but they grow so slowly!

-Krishna

-Krishna

Kailua, Oahu HI. Near the beach but dry!

Still have a garden in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)

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Looking up now at over 24' tall.

Beautiful tree Scott. What is the coldest you have been since you got it, and did those temps damage it?

Martin Farris, San Angelo, TX

San Angelo Cold Hardy Palms and Cycads

Jul - 92F/69F, Jan - 55F/31F

Lows:

02-03: 18F;

03-04: 19F;

04-05: 17F;

05-06: 11F;

06-07: 13F;

07-08: 14F 147.5 Freezing Degree-Hours http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...ee+hours\;

08-09: 23F;

09-10: 12F 467.6 Freezing Degree Hours, Average Temperature During Freeze 24.2F;

10-11: 13F 1,059.5 Freezing Degree Hours with Strong Winds/Rain/Snow/Sleet, Average Temperature During Freeze 19.4F;

Record low -4F in 1989 (High of 36F that p.m.) 1,125.2 freezing degree hours, Average Temperature During Freeze 13.6F;

Record Freeze 1983: 2,300.3 Freezing Degree Hours with a low of 5F, Average Temperature During Freeze 13.7F.

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Great pics, Scott...mine were planted in 05, barely 2" at the base, and now are 12-15 ".....my limited experience is that they are anything but slow!

Rusty

Rusty Bell

Pine Island - the Ex-Pat part of Lee County, Fl , USA

Zone 10b, life in the subs!...except when it isn't....

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Looking up now at over 24' tall.

Beautiful tree Scott. What is the coldest you have been since you got it, and did those temps damage it?

The coldest it has been for this palm was 26F with no damage. But that said my low last Winter of 27F and 10+ hrs below freezing and heavy frost, a little damage was noticed. If you click on the pic taken now, you can see some of the damage on the older leaf tips. If you can grow S.rom and Liv.chin. you can grow C.alba as it had alot less damage last year at 27F than them.

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Copie albas grow well for me in the La Habra Death Camp.

They're on the slow side, though not compared with things like P. sargentii . . .

I doubt they'll grow here like they do in Florida, at least speed-wise. Very nice, though very spiny as well.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

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Looking up now at over 24' tall.

Beautiful tree Scott. What is the coldest you have been since you got it, and did those temps damage it?

The coldest it has been for this palm was 26F with no damage. But that said my low last Winter of 27F and 10+ hrs below freezing and heavy frost, a little damage was noticed. If you click on the pic taken now, you can see some of the damage on the older leaf tips. If you can grow S.rom and Liv.chin. you can grow C.alba as it had alot less damage last year at 27F than them.

Queens are defoliated here every year, and mine froze last year. I have a Livistona chinensis but it is the Subglobosa variety and is supposedly leaf hardy to 15F, but I just got it last spring. I've been to 23F at least 8 times already this winter, and the coldest part of winter is yet to come, so a C. alba probably isn't a great bet for here.

Martin Farris, San Angelo, TX

San Angelo Cold Hardy Palms and Cycads

Jul - 92F/69F, Jan - 55F/31F

Lows:

02-03: 18F;

03-04: 19F;

04-05: 17F;

05-06: 11F;

06-07: 13F;

07-08: 14F 147.5 Freezing Degree-Hours http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...ee+hours\;

08-09: 23F;

09-10: 12F 467.6 Freezing Degree Hours, Average Temperature During Freeze 24.2F;

10-11: 13F 1,059.5 Freezing Degree Hours with Strong Winds/Rain/Snow/Sleet, Average Temperature During Freeze 19.4F;

Record low -4F in 1989 (High of 36F that p.m.) 1,125.2 freezing degree hours, Average Temperature During Freeze 13.6F;

Record Freeze 1983: 2,300.3 Freezing Degree Hours with a low of 5F, Average Temperature During Freeze 13.7F.

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Looking up now at over 24' tall.

Beautiful tree Scott. What is the coldest you have been since you got it, and did those temps damage it?

The coldest it has been for this palm was 26F with no damage. But that said my low last Winter of 27F and 10+ hrs below freezing and heavy frost, a little damage was noticed. If you click on the pic taken now, you can see some of the damage on the older leaf tips. If you can grow S.rom and Liv.chin. you can grow C.alba as it had alot less damage last year at 27F than them.

Queens are defoliated here every year, and mine froze last year. I have a Livistona chinensis but it is the Subglobosa variety and is supposedly leaf hardy to 15F, but I just got it last spring. I've been to 23F at least 8 times already this winter, and the coldest part of winter is yet to come, so a C. alba probably isn't a great bet for here.

Hey Martin,

I would give them a shot. I would recomend a large one though, at least as large as the two that i have. My two have a foot of trunk and should speed now that they're trunking. It dropped down to 21f here last year and it did'nt show any noticable damage.

Orlando, Florida

zone 9b

The Pollen Poacher!!

GO DOLPHINS!!

GO GATORS!!!

 

Palms, Sex, Money and horsepower,,,, you may have more than you can handle,,

but too much is never enough!!

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Aren't they considered to be very slow growers until they start to form some trunk? I ask because I think I have a very small one planted in the garden and it is very slow growing.

While I really like mature C. alba, I have two of them that are real duds! They are not only slow, they just don't grow for me.

I bought my first one from the late John Bishock in 2001 and planted it (maybe a 2 gallon size). Today it looks no bigger than the day I bought it! (I have date stamped "then and now" photos to prove it, but I don't feel like digging them out now to show all.)

In June of 2003 I bought another C. alba of the same size I bought from John two years earlier. Today? It's virtually the same size! No amount of TLC and culture can induce these two palms to grow. I can only conclude my two palms are genetically inferior.

After years of trying to induce normal growth of these two palms I've given up on them. I will still fertilize and keep them watered, but I have no expectation that they will ever grow normally.

That being said, if I come across another one I will buy it and hope for the best.

Mad about palms

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Nice topic on a beautiful palm,and i like the entire copernica varities....:drool:

Here is one of our's growing in our roof top garden....its around 1 & half years old and the plastic pot in which its placed has given way...:)

post-108-082512900 1292769761_thumb.jpg

Lots of love,

kris.

Edited by Kris
  • Upvote 1

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

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Martin, I agree you should give it a shot. Find a nice silver/blue tinted one. The one in the picture is the more green color that showed a little damage. I also have a silver/blue that I started from seed. The palm is growing in a colder low area of the garden and had zero damage last Winter. I get a pic of it today if the sun comes out.

Edited by Tampa Scott
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Nice topic on a beautiful palm,and i like the entire copernica varities....:drool:

Here is one of our's growing in our roof top garden....its around 1 & half years old and the plastic pot in which its placed has given way...:)

post-108-082512900 1292769761_thumb.jpg

Lots of love,

kris.

Kris, Very nice palm you have as always.

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I believe C alba will not grow fast in a pot at least for me it will not. I believe it needs good rich soil to grow fast with moisture and lots of room to grow. Here is mine in the ground (is bigger now than in the pic) near the drain field in black sand muck mix with plenty of moisture and nutrients.

IMG_3595.jpg

In the pot the same age.

IMG_6014.jpg

It is slightly bigger now but still small.

Edited by Davidl
  • Upvote 1

David

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Martin, I agree you should give it a shot. Find a nice silver/blue tinted one. The one in the picture is the more green color that showed a little damage. I also have a silver/blue that I started from seed. The palm is growing in a colder low area of the garden and had zero damage last Winter. I get a pic of it today if the sun comes out.

I think I know where I can get one with some trunk, so if I can, I will plant it in the newly created planting area on the NW side of my house. 5' of nice black dirt fill in the deepest spot there. I thought I read somewhere that they are cold hardy to 18F, but I have lots of palms that are only supposed to be hardy to 18F that survived last winter and looked just fine by June. I might try an Acrocomia totai and/or aculeata too.

Martin Farris, San Angelo, TX

San Angelo Cold Hardy Palms and Cycads

Jul - 92F/69F, Jan - 55F/31F

Lows:

02-03: 18F;

03-04: 19F;

04-05: 17F;

05-06: 11F;

06-07: 13F;

07-08: 14F 147.5 Freezing Degree-Hours http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...ee+hours\;

08-09: 23F;

09-10: 12F 467.6 Freezing Degree Hours, Average Temperature During Freeze 24.2F;

10-11: 13F 1,059.5 Freezing Degree Hours with Strong Winds/Rain/Snow/Sleet, Average Temperature During Freeze 19.4F;

Record low -4F in 1989 (High of 36F that p.m.) 1,125.2 freezing degree hours, Average Temperature During Freeze 13.6F;

Record Freeze 1983: 2,300.3 Freezing Degree Hours with a low of 5F, Average Temperature During Freeze 13.7F.

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I like them and would love to get some for down around the pond out back.

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Looking up now at over 24' tall.

Beautiful tree Scott. What is the coldest you have been since you got it, and did those temps damage it?

The coldest it has been for this palm was 26F with no damage. But that said my low last Winter of 27F and 10+ hrs below freezing and heavy frost, a little damage was noticed. If you click on the pic taken now, you can see some of the damage on the older leaf tips. If you can grow S.rom and Liv.chin. you can grow C.alba as it had alot less damage last year at 27F than them.

Damage on a l.chinensis is normal...but on S.romanz...!!!!!??? You must have the most tropical provenance of this native here on the tablelands.

I fear for my C.alba in future but the cold for the native queens itís normal.

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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these days very cold in southern Italy, in my city minimum temperature of -2 degrees Celsius, no sign of burning leaves by frost

GIUSEPPE

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I have not tried one of these in my yard yet, but after seeing these two at the Houston zoo today I'm definitely going to give them a go.

This is a large one, probably 30-40 feet tall and holding a lot of seeds. Hopefully I can grab some when they start to drop.

post-1385-068816900 1292801000_thumb.jpg

And a smaller one, probably 12 feet or so.

post-1385-005817800 1292801029_thumb.jpg

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I have not tried one of these in my yard yet, but after seeing these two at the Houston zoo today I'm definitely going to give them a go.

This is a large one, probably 30-40 feet tall and holding a lot of seeds. Hopefully I can grab some when they start to drop.

post-1385-068816900 1292801000_thumb.jpg

And a smaller one, probably 12 feet or so.

post-1385-005817800 1292801029_thumb.jpg

If I may ask, where at the zoo are those C. alba located? I think the low at the Houston Zoo was around 23F?

Thanks

:) Jonathan

Edited by Xenon

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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The taller of the two is immediately to the left of the main entrance, at the entry/exit of the red panda exhibit. The smaller of the two is located on right side of the reflection pond (as you're walking into the zoo), outside of the tropical bird exhibit I believe. FYI, the larger one is covered in seeds right now, but they haven't begun to fall yet. I just posted several other pictures from the zoo in the Texas palms thread.

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Nice topic on a beautiful palm,and i like the entire copernica varities....:drool:

Here is one of our's growing in our roof top garden....its around 1 & half years old and the plastic pot in which its placed has given way...:)

Lots of love,

kris.

Kris, Very nice palm you have as always.

Dear Scott

Thanks very much for those kind words of encouragement.....

Lots of love,

kris.

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

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Those in Tx have probably experienced the teens Farhenheit!--- These are mine in Jax--- a tad warmer than Houston.

Probably 15 years old

It gets silvery in the dry springs

Best regards

Ed

post-562-078512600 1292863975_thumb.jpg

post-562-086147800 1292863997_thumb.jpg

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Old post but potentially relevant.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=11770&st=0&p=201834&hl=kanapaha&fromsearch=1&#entry201834

C. alba should be hardy into the upper teens (F) as plants here in Gainesville showed only minor damage last year with lows down to 17 F.

C. prunifera has been surprising hardy for me and showed no damage at my low this year of 22 F.

Both grow reasonably fast here.

I suspect providence has a great influence on how well individual plants handle the cold.

C. alba has a great "architectural" symmetry, IMHO.

Jason

Gainesville, Florida

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Those in Tx have probably experienced the teens Farhenheit!--- These are mine in Jax--- a tad warmer than Houston.

Probably 15 years old

It gets silvery in the dry springs

Best regards

Ed

The last time the Houston Zoo dropped below 20F was back in 1989. It's located in a very nice micro climate, within the heat island. Houston is a VERY big city, and lows can be vary by 8 degrees from the northern and western end to the coast. The "official" airport for Houston is located at the northern tip of the city, and even then is on par with Jacksonville. There were fruiting mangoes and royal palms before last year's freeze in Downtown and South Houston. Galveston which is part of the metro area had 13 straight zone 10 winters before last year, and even then the low was only 27F, comparable to parts of central Florida although much cooler. There are even 30 foot tall Royals and large Ficus on Galveston Island.

Houston Jacksonville

Jan:45/63 45/64

Feb:48/67 47/67

Dec:47/65 47/65

Sorry for getting off topic...

:) Jonathan

Edited by Xenon

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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I hear you --- I just remember discussing this with Robert Riddle who mentioned several years back.

It was 16F here in 1989 but I think it was lower. We might be talking about different parts of the city. Jax official saw 21 or 22F but my house got down to 25F

Best regards

Ed

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This year TX is much warmer than FL. It feels like we've been transported one full climate zone northward. The whole state has been affected. Lots of damage in the Agriculture sector...again. 2010 has been rough here.

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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Florida had a l ong Indian summer to set up for the freeze-- I thinnk that is the problem---This is the first time I have ever heard of Sugar Industry claiminga crop loss--

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello :

In our country, C alba grows without any damage in areas 9a with minimum of 25 º F or less

I can say that this palm supports without damaging frosts of 15 ° F

See the first and second maps of temperature at this link

http://palmasenresistencia.blogspot.com/2009/09/zonas-climaticas-en-argentina.html

Also S romanzoffiana and L chinensis grow at these temperatures without damage

Happy new year to all...!!!!!

Jose

Edited by pindo

Visit my site

www.palmasenresistencia.blogspot.com

And comment me

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