The Azores

[bubba]

Can a Coconut Palm survive and or flourish in the Azores?I have started a collaboration with Michael Ferreira (Palm Guy) of Bermuda to answer this question.Palm Guy has recently posted an incredible group of photographs in the Travel Log section of this Board showing numerous Tropical specimens.We have identified Ponta Delgado,Azores as a likely candidate for this endeavor.

The Azores is a group of Islands ranging from latitude of 37 to 39 degrees North.Ponta Delgado is located at 37.7 North.If established,this would constitute the furthest Coconut Palm on Earth from the Equator.

Several major factors give reason for optimism.The first is the Azores location in those warm waters of the various currents that weave together to create the Gulfstream.Ocean temperatures rarely fall below 60 F.in mid-winter and top out around 80 F. mid-summer.This is one constituent that creates a very warm microclimate notwithstanding the Northern latitude.

Secondly,the Azores is a bastion of volcanic activity that is responsible for countless thermal springs,crater lakes,mineral hot springs,caverns and grottoes.This volcanic activity is ongoing .A Cocos nucifera planted close to anyone of these numerous,warm and natural volcanic heaters would instantly enjoy a revved up microclimate.

Additionally,the climate of the Azores has been recognized as one of the mildest and most constant subtropical climates on Earth.Ponta Delgado,referred to as the Azores Riviera,comes in second only to Maderia and the Lord Howe Islands when using the 65F. base.For Cocos nucifera, this is particularly important when applying the fact that the Coconut discontinues photosynthesis at temperatures under 50F.This fact,rather than the occaisional extreme low temperature,is the limiting factor for Cocos nucifera culture in California.

We all know about the Newport Beach Coconut that has survived for over 20 years at latitude 33/37 North.We also know about the Port Elizabeth,SA. Coconuts that survive at 33/57 South.A comparison of the climate of Newport Beach,Ca. and Ponta Delgada,Azores is revealing:

Average Temperatures:

Newport Beach- Jan/64/48;F-64/50;M-64/51;A-66/54;M-66/57;J-68/60;J-71/63;A-73/64;S-71/63;O-71/59;N-68/52;D-64/48.

Ponta Delgada-Jan/63/52;F-63/52;M-63/52;A-64/54;66/55:J-72/59;J-75/52;A-79/64;S-75/64;O-72/61;N-66/57;D-64/54.

Beyond that,Newport Beach has reported temperatures of freezing or below in four months of the year.Ponta Delgada has never experienced a freeze.Winter lows in Ponta Delgada are with very few exceptions 50F.or above.

Accordingly,I would like to propose a project for this Board of establishing the Cocos Nucifera growing the furthest away from the Equator in the Azores.Utilizing existing methods and identifying logical microclimates, it should be very possible to do so at Ponta Delgada,Azores.Is there any interest for this undertaking.We can purchase a relatively small 5 footer from the Canaries and give it a shot.If there is interest in this venture respond to me by PM or directly on this Post.Thank you

[Carlo Morici]

Lack of warmth in Summer. I don't think Cocos can survive up there, maybe with lots of black stones, and a SW exposure?! I really don't know... try and tell. I would rather try the coconut in Malaga, So.Spain, and Juania in the Azores.

It is a good idea to get a hardened coconut from the Canaries and not an Auchan/Ikea coconut from Holland.

Carlo

[Bennz]

I suspect lack of warmth (heat units) is the issue too. I've been to Lord Howe Island, and the locals there tell me despite many attempts, no one has ever got a coconut to survive. 12C is the mean minimum temp of the coldest month, and 6C the record low.

Azores is at a similar latitude to me, with similar daytime highs for equivalent time sof year. But it is at least 5C warmer than here night times consistently. Give it a bit more summer rainfall and it would be almost the perfect climate. Maybe I will have to wait for this global warming thing to kick in, not much sign of it here yet.

[Tyrone]

The microclimate would be the key thing. Compared to Newport Beach, the Azores is warmer, and there is a coconut at Newport Beach in a perfect microclimate.

Now if you can plant it near some thermally active springs, you'd have no trouble at all. But that begs the question, could that be done in New Zealand?????????? which is even further from the equator.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Charles Wychgel]

Lack of warmth in Summer. I don't think Cocos can survive up there, maybe with lots of black stones, and a SW exposure?! I really don't know... try and tell. I would rather try the coconut in Malaga, So.Spain, and Juania in the Azores.

It is a good idea to get a hardened coconut from the Canaries and not an Auchan/Ikea coconut from Holland.

Carlo

Good points Carlo and the idea of establishing Juania on the Azores ....worth a try for this rare and difficult palm...I've tried many time but to no avail.

Didn't Gunther Bruett have a coconut growing in his garden near Marbella?

[bubba]

Thank you for your imput.Can anyone tell me where Juania is in the Azores? I have Googled it with no luck.What is it's latitude and is it beyond or equal to 37 degrees from the Equator?There is a Botantical Garden in Ponta Delgada near an area of volcanic steam activity that Palm Guy took pictures of that supports a plethora of Tropical vegetation and palms.It is in the Travel log section recently posted.

I am not talking about a magnificient,thriving Cocos nucifera.I am talking about a Coconut that survives and is able to claim the title.We are not talking perfection but simply survival.The temperatures and microclimate presented at Ponta Delgada seem to present a perfect possibility for survival,which is all that can be claimed by the Newport Beach Coconut at 33/37.

Can you tell me the status of the Gentleman's Coconut in Marabella?If it has survived long-term then it may already have the title.New Zealand....

[Davidl]

Winter warmth would probably be the biggest factor I would think. If it stays that cold during the day constantly I think it would kill a coconut. If we have several cool days here you can see them starting to yellow so my guess would be they would not make it. But I would still try

[Bennz]

The microclimate would be the key thing. Compared to Newport Beach, the Azores is warmer, and there is a coconut at Newport Beach in a perfect microclimate.

Now if you can plant it near some thermally active springs, you'd have no trouble at all. But that begs the question, could that be done in New Zealand?????????? which is even further from the equator.

Best regards

Tyrone

Tyrone, now you're talking man. There are in fact some tropical ferns growing beside a thermal vent in the Rotorua area that cannot be grown anywhere else in the country. Getting a coconut to grow in the area could be a serious challenge though, unless soil warmth alone was sufficient, which seems just a little unlikely for a plant the size of a Cocos. Rotorua area is not coconut-firendly as a general principle.

Here's the NZ coconut, naturally occurring (ie grew from seed washed up on beach).

Ok, the bad side, this palm is now dead I hear. Just too cold even in NZs northernmost Raoul Island, at 27S (ie same latitude as Brisbane, Durban, or Miami N).

[bubba]

Still would love to know where Juania is and it's latitude.

Would love to know the status of the Coconut referred to in Marabella,Spain.

The plan would be to obtain a 5 or 6 footer from the Canaries.Certainly no desire to pop one from seed.

We are talking about survival and world record breaking.It would be hard to describe the "Newport Beach Coconut" as flourishing.That stated,the climate of Ponta Delgada,while cool,is much more consistent than Newport Beach.Lows rarely if ever below 50 F.is a key because of photosynthesis shutdown.

Also,keep in mind that the Azores major crop is Tea and Pineapples.This does not take into account the "extra rev"from the volcanic enhanced heat,potentially applied so as to enhance "heat requirements".

[Tyrone]

Bennz, I think that if you rated what was more important for a coconut for survival, either soil heat, or air heat, soil heat is way more important. The leaves of a coconut are actually quite cold tolerant for a tropical palm. But when a coconut dies, it dies from its roots up, not leaves down, not normally.

I had a coconut and a bottle palm under my back patio one winter in what I thought was a protected spot. Hail got driven by gales onto these two sitting next to each other. Within 30 minutes the bottle had defoliated totally, the coconut wasn't touched much. Neither of them died from this incident IMO. The coconut died a few months later from the effects of persistent cool weather, as I didn't have it in a good spot, I was inexperienced then. The bottle reshot and grew out of the damage and is still around looking great, and actually hardened up from the experience. If I'd kept the roots warm on this coconut and given it more sun, I'm sure it would have survived. But the leaves were quite resistant to cold weather, to a point, at least much more than a bottle palm.

So a thermal heated soil would probably do it for a coconut in NZ. The hail would turn into rain if it got anywhere near a thermal spring. It definitely wouldn't drop anywhere near zero celcius near a heated spring I would have thought.

Best regards

Tyrone

[avb]

Carlo was referring to Juania australis, the palm from Juan Fernandez Island off Chile, not a location.

[bubba]

Thank you.Any news on the Gentleman's Coconut in Marabella,Spain.That would be a record as we speak',if it has survived for a decent period of time.

[Toby]

Gunter Brütt in Marbella tried several coconuts at his place near Marbella, all died after a few years, and as far as I know he has given up on replanting them.

Best, TOBY

[bubba]

Toby,Thank you for the imput although I was hoping that we would find a twenty footer quietly growing in Marabella!I would like to issue a challenge to Nelson in New Zealand to pop a Cocos nucifera into a volcano hole at 41 S.We will try the same in the Azores at 37/7 N.To the victor go the spoils.Stretch the Tropics!

[SoulofthePlace]

I would grow Juania australis here on Pico island in the Azores, but I am unable to buy its seeds. Would some1 send or sell me the seeds I will do the test of growing it here.

[Explorer]

Still would love to know where Juania is and it's latitude.

Would love to know the status of the Coconut referred to in Marabella,Spain.

The plan would be to obtain a 5 or 6 footer from the Canaries.Certainly no desire to pop one from seed.

We are talking about survival and world record breaking.It would be hard to describe the "Newport Beach Coconut" as flourishing.That stated,the climate of Ponta Delgada,while cool,is much more consistent than Newport Beach.Lows rarely if ever below 50 F.is a key because of photosynthesis shutdown.

Also,keep in mind that the Azores major crop is Tea and Pineapples.This does not take into account the "extra rev"from the volcanic enhanced heat,potentially applied so as to enhance "heat requirements".

Tea can be grown in much colder climates where you get even snow in winter like in Japan.

Alexander

[Explorer]

Toby,Thank you for the imput although I was hoping that we would find a twenty footer quietly growing in Marabella!I would like to issue a challenge to Nelson in New Zealand to pop a Cocos nucifera into a volcano hole at 41 S.We will try the same in the Azores at 37/7 N.To the victor go the spoils.Stretch the Tropics!

Well they get naturalised Cyathea cooperi on the Azores. And in the tropics you often see them at a higher altitud where the climate is cooler and more humid. So what they get on the Azores is a good climate for tropical plants from higher altitudes. Even some highland Nepenthes would grow well there I guess.

For a real symbolical tropical palm, Cyrtostachys renda would be a better candidate as it needs more warmth then a coconut palm.

Alexander

Alexander

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

I think it's a great idea! If anyone can get one, try a pure Mexican Tall (the most cold hardy variety in the Western Hemisphere). If not available, get a 5 to 7ft. tall pure Jamaican Tall from CENTRAL FLORIDA, NOT SOUTH FLORIDA. The Jamaican Tall is the 2nd most cold hardy variety in the Western Hemisphere, and a healthy one from Central Florida, say from the Tampa or Clearwater area or Cocoa Beach or New Smyrna Beach on the Atlantic side, should be more cold hardy than one from a parent tree in South Florida, since Central Florida does experience some more extended chilly weather in the winter than South Florida. Try planting it in some black lava sand to naturally maintain a higher soil temp.

Good Luck Guys,

John

[Brian Bruning]

I was just in St. Petersburg last month visiting a friend on our way back from Puerto Rico. We had nothing but tropical weight clothing and it was really, really cold. They have coconuts there along the beach all over. I would suspect that soil warmth is key. They'll take a few degrees of frost as long as the weather warms up in 5-7 days, no longer. Man was I cold. San Juan is low to mid 80s day, low to mid 70s nights consistently.

[Donald67]

Well, 12 years since initial  post! From 2020 and with some global warming do think there is a possibility for сосоnut to survive at Santa Maria island, Azores. I would give a try in Praia Formoso village.

[LustigerBub]

I'd give it a try on Sao Miguel too... 

[Aceraceae]

On 5/1/2020 at 12:28 PM, Donald67 said:

Well, 12 years since initial  post! From 2020 and with some global warming do think there is a possibility for сосоnut to survive at Santa Maria island, Azores. I would give a try in Praia Formoso village.

 Well at the moment if you Google weather Horta Azores it is warmer than the weather charts show 

[Aceraceae]

On 10/1/2021 at 12:09 AM, Aceraceae said:

 Well at the moment if you Google weather Horta Azores it is warmer than the weather charts show 

vs 77/67 (25/20)

[Shoowow]

It's very warm and humid here right now and it will be for a while, at least until mid-October. The issue is winter survival due to stubborn daytime highs in the 60s F (17 to 20c) for months, wind and rain. Lows are fine, as it seldom drops below 50F or 10c. I have two greenhouse coconuts right now in outdoor vases ready to transplant when they are strong and bigger in maybe a year or two. Meanwhile, will keep them protected in a large glass pane corridor I have during the cooler and wetter months. I had an outdoors plant for about a year that I may have prematurely removed because the spear pulled... The roots were fine.

[Tyrone]

4 hours ago, Shoowow said:

It's very warm and humid here right now and it will be for a while, at least until mid-October. The issue is winter survival due to stubborn daytime highs in the 60s F (17 to 20c) for months, wind and rain. Lows are fine, as it seldom drops below 50F or 10c. I have two greenhouse coconuts right now in outdoor vases ready to transplant when they are strong and bigger in maybe a year or two. Meanwhile, will keep them protected in a large glass pane corridor I have during the cooler and wetter months. I had an outdoors plant for about a year that I may have prematurely removed because the spear pulled... The roots were fine.

That’s a unique climate you have there. Your summers sound similar to mine but I’m envious about the fact that you rarely drop below 10C. I’d be trying to grow anything and everything from the Andes in your climate. Plants that can’t take brutal heat in summer but can’t handle cold would thrive in your climate. 

[mirandamavrogianni]

On 7/28/2022 at 8:55 PM, Shoowow said:

It's very warm and humid here right now and it will be for a while, at least until mid-October. The issue is winter survival due to stubborn daytime highs in the 60s F (17 to 20c) for months, wind and rain. Lows are fine, as it seldom drops below 50F or 10c. I have two greenhouse coconuts right now in outdoor vases ready to transplant when they are strong and bigger in maybe a year or two. Meanwhile, will keep them protected in a large glass pane corridor I have during the cooler and wetter months. I had an outdoors plant for about a year that I may have prematurely removed because the spear pulled... The roots were fine.

I’m wondering how your coconuts are doing?

 

Also, has anyone else in the Azores successfully grown a coconut?? 

[Shoowow]

5 hours ago, mirandamavrogianni said:

I’m wondering how your coconuts are doing?

 

Also, has anyone else in the Azores successfully grown a coconut?? 

So far not much success. Managed to kill a bunch of Dutch greenhouse coconuts. The latest is maybe still viable. We had a mild winter with the coldest month average over 16c (60F) and many days over 20c (68F) in daytime and the coconut still struggled (even protected from worst rain/wind storms), which makes me think these greenhouse cocos are wimps. It is really hard to get anything other than these specimens here so it's hard to ascertain if other varieties from other origins would do better. Also interesting that every other single palm I've planted has thrived, including spindle, hurricane palm, and so on...