Cocos Nucifera - Mexicali Baja California México

[Cristóbal]

In the summer of the last year i get two cocos nucifera for the more cooler weather, they come from high hills of veracruz state.

i write about this in the palmtalk, see this:

California Cocos 1-2-3

i leave the two cocos in the outside all winter in tijuana no protection, this winter being the most coldest in 30 years in this area. i lose one cocos for the winds dry very much the fronds and leave only the spear green, not enough green to continue growing.

the other also lose some fronds but not all, and this coco my friend and i decide we plant in his orchard of dates not far from mexicali, capital city of baja california state, in the desert.

this area has more sun then of any other place in the world. in summer it can have temperatures of 53 C - 128 F, and is the most hottest area of north america in the summer, less death valley california usa.

it is also the most dryest area of north america, batagues very close to mexicali has the record for the continent of average of 1.2 inches / 30 mm rain in the year.

winters is very short and average high of 70 F / 22 C in january, low of 45 F / 7 C. Can have few hours of below 32 F / 0 C every few years but no thing very serious.  record low temperatures are in 20s.

time to go on a little trip, friends of the palm talk.

we start with, where is this place mexicali ?

it´s here...

a more closer look of the area. the road to mexicali from tijuana goes to altitude of about 5000 feet / 1600 meters at la rumorosa and then in short distance goes to below the level of the sea by the laguna salada, mexicali, and the area by it. only 1000 years ago, all this area is under the sea of cortez.

view of laguna salada, white area in top of foto, from la rumorosa

[Cristóbal]

going down the mountains, it is like the moon ....

natural vegatations

[Cristóbal]

but the water of the colorado river brings life to the desert. all in the valley of mexicali theres many canals and this area is very important area of production of vegatables in the winter most for export to united states.

because this area is only 1000 years ago under the water of sea of cortez, there is much salt in the soils. probaly very good for the cocos nucifera were going to plant.

[Cristóbal]

arrive at ejido islas agrarias b, where is the date orchard of my friend.

in méxico a ejido is area of farming made by the government for farmers with no land.

date orchard of my friend, where we plant the cocos nucifera

this is the cocos nucifera we plant. looks good after the very cool winter in this year in tijuana. lose some fronds but not all.

[Cristóbal]

the hole is waiting for the cocos.

we get some sand to mix with the soil

not sand from the beach but is ok.

[Cristóbal]

mix one half sand, one half soil of the hole. put breaks in the soil in the side of the hole so theres not only one type of soil. this is more easy for roots in future.

into the hole we put the coco, you can see i dont put any soil in the pot before, only sand from the beach and some perlite. this is big secret i learn for cultivating the cocos in our area.

drink, coco, drink ! you need the water in this desert !  

[Cristóbal]

we plant the coco on the side, for this reason - lines of electricity !  :laugh:  we hope one day it can get this tall !  

a view close of the coco. looks good after the bad winter we have in tijuana in this year. some damage to the fronds but this is no problem.  in march the temperatures already over 80 F / 27 C in this area and very soon to get very hot.

i take some more fotos in two months and post here, and also in summer. i continue to take fotos in the future and see how is going this very interseting experiment.

[cobra2326]

Very cool.  If it lives, it will be very beautiful.  What are the winter temps like in that area?

[MattyB]

Good luck Cristóbal.  That desert heat will be great for this guy.

[Dan OKeeffe]

I guess I am optimistic, but aren't you worried about planting the cocos under the power lines?

[Cristóbal]

(MattyB @ Mar. 21 2008,11:14)

QUOTE

Good luck Cristóbal.  That desert heat will be great for this guy.

hi mattyb

i only ask to myself, what affects temperatures of 110 - 120 F / 43 - 49 C for 4 months can have on the coco ?

its also very hot at night there almost always more then 85 F / 30 C and some times 100 F / 38 C for low night  temperatures in the most hottest days.

can this be to much heat for the cocos ?

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Cristóbal

Great pics Thanks....

One problem...

Planting the young palm sideways.... under the power lines won't help. A few new leaves and the palm will have straightened out... and head straight towards the sky.... and powerlines

However... in that climate... I doubt it will get tall enought to bother the lines.

Have you ever tried Dwarf Malay? I heard that they were a little more cold tolerent.

I bought 3 sprouted ones on ebay over a month ago...Planted them in 5 gal pots... The cool nights in the low 40's hasn't bothered them at all here in Modesto.... They all look nice.

I understand they will fruit at 4 ft of trunk and while in a 15 gal pot.

Next winter ... I'll put the pots on a low voltage heating pad to keep the soil warm during our cold spells.

Jeff

[Cristóbal]

hi jeff,

you give the cocos protection in the winter ? modesto is very far north !

[bubba]

Cristobal, I have been trying to research the effect of extreme Heat on Coconuts.The little I have been able to find suggests extreme Heat may be as bad as long term cool/cold on the Coconut.If anybody can defy the odds it is you.Good luck and keep us updated.

[Walter John]

one word "humidity". Where is it ?

Good luck and I loved the way you presented the story line to this thread.

[Palmetro]

Que ondas compadre!!

You are crazy men!! but I think is the only way to know if your experiment with cocos is going to work! good luck anyway!

Another question, how old are the phoenyx dactyliferas in picture number 11???

Saludos

Christian

[happ]

Actually it can get rather humid in the low desert during summer [horrible combination of heat & humidity  

Good luck, Cristóbal [there have been attempts for growing cocos below sea level - ie. Salton Sea

[Exotic Life]

Hi,

Nice project, i love doing project like that with palms.. experimenting with palms and seen after a few months the results and the results after a few years...

I'm always try new palms in the garden here ... only different is here i'm going too take a look how much cold the can have, you have the heat as "problem".

Good luck with it and show a picture in the future

Robbin

[FRITO]

interesting. wish the best for the coco. but that climate looks harsh!

hope to see it florishing in the next update

[Gileno Machado]

Cristóbal:

I don't think the extreme heat will be a problem for your cocos but the clayey soil and lack of water table won't probably favour a proper root system to develop to its full potential.

Here in Northeastern Brazil they've been trying to produce irrigated dwarf coconuts at Petrolina, located some 800km west from Recife in a semi arid region with high temperatures, suitable for dates as well. I've heard that they don't perform so well there, needing a lot of fert and sometimes soil replacement in extensive areas, including salt and sand.

I've seen many coconut trees planted as far inland as Brasília, for landscape purposes (located some 1500 km from the ocean). They do grow well there but never produce any fruit at all...maybe it's because of the variation in the temperatures. It is interesting to notice that the water from a coconut grown in predominant clayey soil tastes different from the ones by the sea.

Wish you bueña luck though and keep us posted.

[Mark_NoVA]

Good luck with that palm!  Thanks for all the maps and photos--very interesting!

[BS Man about Palms]

Good luck, keep us updated!

[Tyrone]

My Dwarf malay Coconut has seen temps of around 52C this summer, and from what I can see, the hotter it is the faster it grows. The humidity doesn't seem to be an issue. Low humidity doesn't slow growth as long as the soil is moist during very high heat events. Cristobal's coconut will most likely do fine provided it is watered and fertilised regularly.

regards

Tyrone

[Cristóbal]

cristian: kiubo guey....the phoenix dactylifera are about 15 years old.

bubba if you can find some informations of the affects of high heat on the cocos nucifera please let me know ok. i search to find informations before on cocos nucifera in saudi arabia kuwait and sahara desert and find nothing.

the humiditeys in this area in the summer are from 5 to 15 %s in normal days. there are few days when is much higher but i dont see these days for being important for the growing of the palm.

this areas west of the parts of the sonora desert wheres theres monsoons rains in the summer.  arizona and sonora state east of here have rain in summer, this area has in most years nothing.

its the most dryest part in north america. and hottest after the death valley !  

[Kris]

Dear crystal  

sorry for comming for this party so late but i like to bump intreasting threads back to the main page_so kindly bear with me..

And your first few stills on the introduction of your place,its vegitation,its area map is fentastic.and by any chance have you made any major in geography ?since its very clear for us all to understand more about the zones of the U.S.

And i think you know very well that Coconuts are not desert palms like washy's,phoenix or cactus..those extreme temperatures are really test to this species.

here in south india coconuts grow near our coastline and in regions where their is regular & heavy rainfalls.only in these places these guys put out lagre size nuts in large quantities.but i will not stop you from trying since even i not giving up planting a W.filifers in our wet tropical climate..

if it grows-up into a decent sized tree,ever forget one thing even in drought it will need watering daily...at least one normal sized bucket of water !

By the way the black mini truck looks charming...is it ford or GMC ?

thanks for the coverage and all the best to you,

Love,

Kris  

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

(Cristóbal @ Mar. 25 2008,19:37)

QUOTE

hi jeff,

you give the cocos protection in the winter ? modesto is very far north !

Yes... I put them on a 17 watt soil heating pad and place them under my porch to protect from freezes.

This will be the first year of the experiment... we shall see how it goes.

I have grown potted Coconut trees as a summer annual then winter house plant,.... they don't mind dry temps up to 108f.

They hate cold soil here in Dec/Jan and alway die outside ... so I decided to give them a littl warmth on the pot.... on a morning where the low was 37 recently... the pot temp was at 63f. Warmer at the bottom.

BTW... my latest are dwarf Malay....

Jeff

[Cristóbal]

hi jeff what is the temperature of the soil in your area in the winter ? in my area in january february it is 14 - 15 C, 58-60 F.

i think this is close to the most lowest limit of soil temperature for cocos nucifera for long period of time.

i see in my experiences if the roots go to under 10  C / 50 F like when there in the pot is when the fronds start to become yellow, for this to happen only a few times below this temperature is when it starts.

[DoomsDave]

Cristobal!

Do please keep us informed.

I think your chances for success are excellent.

Coconuts will grow in Arabia (admittedly in the tropics) so your conditions shouldn't be that different.

They also like salt, so the saline soil is right up their alley.

Keep us posted . . . .

dave

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

(Cristóbal @ Apr. 04 2008,15:53)

QUOTE

hi jeff what is the temperature of the soil in your area in the winter ? in my area in january february it is 14 - 15 C, 58-60 F.

i think this is close to the most lowest limit of soil temperature for cocos nucifera for long period of time.

i see in my experiences if the roots go to under 10  C / 50 F like when there in the pot is when the fronds start to become yellow, for this to happen only a few times below this temperature is when it starts.

Cristobal

The natural soil temperature here in Dec/ Jan is about 48f to 50f. This means that I must bring the soil in my pots up at least 10 degrees.

This will be done with a plant heating pad.

The soil min in my test pot last winter was 64f... but as hot as 90f as I have no thermostat.

Jeff

[paulgila]

good luck crisobal! the 1st pix u posted looks alot like where my parents live in borrego springs.they hav alot of windy conditions there--is it the same for you?

kris i dig yer new avatar!(new to me,at least)

[Cristóbal]

jeff in modesto, may be when the cocos is to big for a pot you can bring it to some body to southern california to plant in the ground ! you know what is the variety ? i think pacific tall needs more testing in southern california.

hi pohonkelapa, borrego springs is at botom of the mountains so theres much wind there, in this area where i plant the cocos in mexicali valley is very flat and only about 1000 years ago under waters of sea of cortez.

probaly 3-4 C / 5-8 F more hotter then borrego springs in most the year and very little wind. the peninsula mountains sierra de san pedro martír are probaly 80 kilometers / 50 miles west.

[Cristóbal]

i report today on this experiment of the cocos nucifera, i see it in this week end and its dead. i think too much heat in the summer. very hot days and nights and humidtey most the time of 5-25%. i put in the message when i post it in the first time, informations about the climate.

in july we put a little house over the coco to protect it from the sun for in the after noon, but in august it start to look very bad and when i see it in the last time 1 month ago i think, ah this cocos is to die soon.

what does this mean ? it mean i am going to plant another cocos there in march ! can any body help with informations or sugestions may be on how to try protect a cocos in this very hot desert ? may be some body from arizona usa or saudi arabia with climate similar ?

we learn by doing experiments with palms in margenal areas and is very good to share the experience. if we fail in the first time, try again. and again. if theres some chance a palm in your margenal area can survive and do ok, dont stop to do experiments and share informations !

for warm or hot wet climates this can be howea, jubeaopsis, rhopalostylis, ceroxylon, some brahea.

for desert or mediteranean this can be cocos nucifera, adonidia, some veitchia and some licuala.

i see these palms the most experimented in these areas, to all doing experiments, dont stop when you fail in the first time. tell to us about the experience and ask for help. you only fail when you stop doing the experiments.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Cristóbal

[iamjv]

Cristobal,

Sorry to hear that coconut palm died.... it was a good effort and this is how we expand the palm horizon.

If you plant another palm I would try planting it in the middle of the date palm grove. I've been in such date groves and there is much more protection from the sun and even more humidity in the center of the grove from all of the irrigation. If your friend will allow you to plant a coocnut there, then I would try that. Best of luck.

Jv

[Palmateer]

You forgot to add: The Arabians replace them repeatedly. Money is no object with them.

Cristobal!

Coconuts will grow in Arabia (admittedly in the tropics) so your conditions shouldn't be that different.

[Tyrone]

Did it ever dry out during these high heat events? If so, that's your reason it died. Coconuts will handle low humidity provided the soil is kept constantly moist.

Best regards

Tyrone

[The Germinator]

Hey Cristobal, I love these Palmumentries.

Good Luck.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

i report today on this experiment of the cocos nucifera, i see it in this week end and its dead. i think too much heat in the summer. very hot days and nights and humidtey most the time of 5-25%. i put in the message when i post it in the first time, informations about the climate.

in july we put a little house over the coco to protect it from the sun for in the after noon, but in august it start to look very bad and when i see it in the last time 1 month ago i think, ah this cocos is to die soon.

what does this mean ? it mean i am going to plant another cocos there in march ! can any body help with informations or sugestions may be on how to try protect a cocos in this very hot desert ? may be some body from arizona usa or saudi arabia with climate similar ?

we learn by doing experiments with palms in margenal areas and is very good to share the experience. if we fail in the first time, try again. and again. if theres some chance a palm in your margenal area can survive and do ok, dont stop to do experiments and share informations !

for warm or hot wet climates this can be howea, jubeaopsis, rhopalostylis, ceroxylon, some brahea.

for desert or mediteranean this can be cocos nucifera, adonidia, some veitchia and some licuala.

i see these palms the most experimented in these areas, to all doing experiments, dont stop when you fail in the first time. tell to us about the experience and ask for help. you only fail when you stop doing the experiments.

All of my dwarf coconuts are still alive and doing well. Our nights have been mild so far.

However as you mentioned ... winter soil temps are a real concern here and the soill gets down to 9c - 10c all winter. So The coco palm outside in a pot will sit on a 17 watt soil warmer until March. It keeps the 15 gal pot no colder than 20c at the surface so far 40c at the bottom of the pot.

As for your desert experiment... might I suguest... plant several palms in different locations in the area. Including in the shade of other trees.

Also, plant a couple unsprouted seeds. That way they don't have to adapt to the new soil when transplanted.

Jeff

[bubba]

Cristobal,Good luck and keep trying!

[paulgila]

sorry to hear it,cristobal. was anyone watching it? you say you didnt see it for a month...

well you have a good attitude.keep expirimenting & maybe you will succeed.

[sebasroch]

hey, where do you get that coconut'