Coconut Growing Farthest From Equator

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Thanks for the input John,

You might be right, but from all my last 3 years of observations from meteo stations the ones very close to the sea level like (50ft or less in altitude and close to the sea) always have higher low temperatures on average and on extreme low temperature days they never drop as much as others slightly further inland and a bit higher in altitude. Madeira has 12 zone places (Zone 12A and maybe even B in the southwest very close to the sea) for example but only near the shores I am convinced.

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15 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Thanks for the input John,

You might be right, but from all my last 3 years of observations from meteo stations the ones very close to the sea level like (50ft or less in altitude and close to the sea) always have higher low temperatures on average and on extreme low temperature days they never drop as much as others slightly further inland and a bit higher in altitude. Madeira has 12 zone places (Zone 12A and maybe even B in the southwest very close to the sea) for example but only near the shores I am convinced.

We are on the same page here, but just a little misunderstanding.  I wasn't implying that the areas I was talking about would be cooler than areas further inland and at even higher elevations, just that the areas I mentioned would give a Coconut Palm an added nudge in making it through a cold winter as any cold air they would encounter with a strong cold front would slide down the hill away from them as cold air sinks and warm air rises, especially on calm cold clear nights with lots of radiational cooling at night..  Also, like in Madeira, I think the Southwest coasts of these areas would be the mildest in the winter time.

John

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I think I understood you John hehe, just that I thought radiational cooling would not impact/happen in coastal areas in the same way (that it happens inland) as to give a coastal area at 100 ft any advantage over a below 50ft one. Just my empiric observation (which might be very limited) from the limited stations I have been watching from time to time and car thermometer:)

Edited by Cluster
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20 minutes ago, Cluster said:

I think I understood you John hehe, just that I thought radiational cooling would not impact/happen in coastal areas in the same way (that it happens inland) as to give a coastal area at 100 ft any advantage over a below 50ft one. Just my empiric observation (which might be very limited) from the limited stations I have been watching from time to time and car thermometer:)

You may be right.  I might be thinking there is more of an effect than there really is.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

You may be right.  I might be thinking there is more of an effect than there really is.

I wonder how close was the Newport beach coconut to the beach:) and the altitude.

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43 minutes ago, Pando said:

It looked pretty good in Aug. 2012 and had a lot of concrete and asphalt around it to give it some warmth on cold winter nights.  I wish it could have survived longer.

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Thank you Pando, the coconut is very close to the sea and also at sea level altitude, I guess this adds to my observations of not so dangerous radiational cooling near shores. Lisbon where I am at the moment has no freezes whatsoever, it is a costal city and the closer the stations here seem to be to the sea/river the warmer they stay even in severe cooling nights from my observation. Now that I think of it the coldest month here actually has warmer averages than Marmaris.

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41 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Thank you Pando, the coconut is very close to the sea and also at sea level altitude, I guess this adds to my observations of not so dangerous radiational cooling near shores. Lisbon where I am at the moment has no freezes whatsoever, it is a costal city and the closer the stations here seem to be to the sea/river the warmer they stay even in severe cooling nights from my observation. Now that I think of it the coldest month here actually has warmer averages than Marmaris.

Remember Pedro, it's not just the higher low temps that's the key, but the warm enough high temps that consistently give a high enough average close to the magic 60F average soil temp that Coconut Palms need about 90 to 95% of the time that makes the difference, which is why areas like Galveston that have a fairly mild normal low in Jan. (48F) can't grow them, because their normal day time high of 60F is just too cool, and Feb. isn't much better for them.  They have an average temp of 54F, which would translate into an average soil temp also of 54F in Jan. which is just way too cool for Coconut Palms.  By the way, the areas near the water are the mildest at night, but back to my point about the slopes and the areas I mentioned earlier, would probably have a little more daytime warmth being a little distance from the water and on slopes which should give those areas I mentioned at least a 50/50 chance of being able to grow one of the more cold hardy tall varieties.

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24 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Remember Pedro, it's not just the higher low temps that's the key, but the warm enough high temps that consistently give a high enough average close to the magic 60F average soil temp that Coconut Palms need about 90 to 95% of the time that makes the difference, which is why areas like Galveston that have a fairly mild normal low in Jan. (48F) can't grow them, because their normal day time high of 60F is just too cool, and Feb. isn't much better for them.  They have an average temp of 54F, which would translate into an average soil temp also of 54F in Jan. which is just way too cool for Coconut Palms.  By the way, the areas near the water are the mildest at night, but back to my point about the slopes and the areas I mentioned earlier, would probably have a little more daytime warmth being a little distance from the water and on slopes which should give those areas I mentioned at least a 50/50 chance of being able to grow one of the more cold hardy tall varieties.

The high temperatures during the day might go higher further from the sea indeed. The ideal location will depend a lot for each specific climate I take it. For Madeira near the shore might be better since the sea temperature is 64.4 f (in the coldest month) so those locations will begin the day warmer and might keep the head start till midday or so (around 68f or more) in which the further inland or higher stations might take the lead, losing it again late afternoon/night. The sea is just very warm there to be ignored and being low altitude increases the pressure further, other zones from different parts of the world will probably benefit more in other ways. Keeping the soil level around 60f and making sure the coconut does not get very low temperatures that would kill it seems to be the key and that might mean closer to the sea or higher in the ground in places like Palm Springs to avoid radiational coolness:)

Edited by Cluster
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11 minutes ago, Cluster said:

The high temperatures during the day might go higher further from the sea indeed. The ideal location will depend a lot for each specific climate I take it. For Madeira near the shore might be better since the sea temperature is 64.4 f (in the coldest month) so those locations will begin the day warmer and might keep the head start till midday or so (around 68f or more) in which the further inland or higher stations might take the lead, losing it again late afternoon/night. The sea is just very warm there to be ignored and being low altitude increases the pressure further, other zones from different parts of the world will probably benefit more in other ways. Keeping the soil level around 60f and making sure the coconut does not get very low temperatures that would kill it seems to be the key and that might mean closer to the sea or higher in the ground in places like Palm Springs to avoid radiational coolness:)

You got it!  I sure wish Corpus Christi was a little further south with your kind of winter time water temps.  Here the seawater temp is currently 62F, which is very mild for the beginning of Feb.  Normally, we would be around 57F or 58F this time of year, and normally in the middle of Jan., our water temp is around 55F or 56F, but in a really cold winter, it can briefly drop into the upper 40'sF.  64.4F is tropical enough for their to be some coral growing around Madeira, especially some of the more cold hardy star corals and gorgonians!   I sure envy you Pedro, and would love to see your island someday, and maybe stay there, permanently!

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This year the temperatures have been higher in Portugal as well, Madeira has 66f sea temperature currently. Maybe one day you can have a house there and one in the US, best of both worlds, people are very friendly there and you can be in the continent in 1h30 hours (less if south Portugal) or 3h45 to London. You would be most welcome, encoding the coconut videos at the moment will post it next days for sure.

Edited by Cluster
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Sea temperatures in South of Turkey this year are around 16-18C. Normally it is around 16-20C but this year winter has been a bit hard although it is 25C for now. In any case i will give it a try to plant 2-3 years old coconut on a south shore of Marmaris and we will sea how long it is going to survive.

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9 hours ago, Cluster said:

This year the temperatures have been higher in Portugal as well, Madeira has 66f sea temperature currently. Maybe one day you can have a house there and one in the US, best of both worlds, people are very friendly there and you can be in the continent in 1h30 hours (less if south Portugal) or 3h45 to London. You would be most welcome, encoding the coconut videos at the moment will post it next days for sure.

Pedro,

Thank you.  I would love to live in such a nice beautiful welcoming place where I could grow coconut palms.  I would love to have an organic coconut farm there and teach people how to grow palms (and NOT BUTCHER THEM, LOL!) and other tropical plants organically and teach organic horticulture and agriculture in general.  I have a college degree in Agriculture and I went ALL ORGANIC with everything I grow about 4 years ago.

John

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So without reading the entire thread again, what coconut is successfully growing furthest from the equator. My one in Perth is still doing fine (32S) but I doubt that that is the furthest as I did hear of one in Port Elizabeth South Africa around 33S. Mine may be the most southerly in Australia, it probably is the most southerly in Western Australia. How far north are they growing??

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4 hours ago, Tyrone said:

So without reading the entire thread again, what coconut is successfully growing furthest from the equator. My one in Perth is still doing fine (32S) but I doubt that that is the furthest as I did hear of one in Port Elizabeth South Africa around 33S. Mine may be the most southerly in Australia, it probably is the most southerly in Western Australia. How far north are they growing??

Hey Tyrone,

In the Atlantic region, the northernmost Coconut Palms are found in Bermuda at 32.30 N, where there are MANY mature ones fruiting, and there are some mature ones in Madeira at 32.74 N.  I don't think they can grow any further north than these two locations.  In the U.S., there used to be one in St. Augustine, FL at 29.89 N.  I think it was planted near the water and had some woody trunk, but it was killed by the bad winter of 2010.  In Texas, the furthest north that they can be grown is Corpus Christi at 27.76 N, where they can only be grown near the water, and there is only 1 mature one that I know of on the south side of a house that backs up to the bay.  In California, there used to be the famous Newport Beach one growing at 33.61 N, but finally succumbed to too many chilly winters, but did have several feet of woody trunk.

John

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  • Newport coconut was at 33.6193 N
  • The La Quinta coconut is currently at 33.6568 N
  • The fruiting coconut that was cut down in Palm Desert was at 33.7041 N

For many years, Newport coconut was called the northernmost coconut in the world. When looking at the actual latitude, it's apparent that the title was actually held by the tree in Palm Desert, just that no one knew about it. By the size of it, it was quite a bit older than Newport coconut.

The current record holder seems to be the tree in La Quinta.

Edited by Pando
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13 minutes ago, Pando said:
  • Newport coconut was at 33.6193 N
  • The La Quinta coconut is currently at 33.6568 N
  • The fruiting coconut that was cut down in Palm Desert was at 33.7041 N

For many years, Newport coconut was called the northernmost coconut in the world. When looking at the actual latitude, it's apparent that the title was actually held by the tree in Palm Desert, just that no one knew about it. By the size of it, it was quite a bit older than Newport coconut.

The current record holder seems to be the tree in La Quinta.

Sweet!

:greenthumb:

 

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6 minutes ago, Danilopez89 said:

Sweet!

:greenthumb:

 

And if you get one to survive in your yard, this could be the new record holder! :)  33.6983 N

 

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45 minutes ago, Pando said:

And if you get one to survive in your yard, this could be the new record holder! :)  33.6983 N

 

:bemused:

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2 hours ago, Pando said:
  • Newport coconut was at 33.6193 N
  • The La Quinta coconut is currently at 33.6568 N
  • The fruiting coconut that was cut down in Palm Desert was at 33.7041 N

For many years, Newport coconut was called the northernmost coconut in the world. When looking at the actual latitude, it's apparent that the title was actually held by the tree in Palm Desert, just that no one knew about it. By the size of it, it was quite a bit older than Newport coconut.

The current record holder seems to be the tree in La Quinta.

Thanks, Ando.  I stand corrected, but I was close, LOL!  I actually thought for some reason that the Palm Desert and La Quinta ones are slightly further south, which is why I didn't mention them.

John

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We need to start a new thread for the Northernmost and Southernmost FRUITING Coconut Palm.  I think I will go ahead and do that now.

John

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8 hours ago, Pando said:
  • Newport coconut was at 33.6193 N
  • The La Quinta coconut is currently at 33.6568 N
  • The fruiting coconut that was cut down in Palm Desert was at 33.7041 N

For many years, Newport coconut was called the northernmost coconut in the world. When looking at the actual latitude, it's apparent that the title was actually held by the tree in Palm Desert, just that no one knew about it. By the size of it, it was quite a bit older than Newport coconut.

The current record holder seems to be the tree in La Quinta.

Actually, the Newport coconut was 40 years old, it just grew really slowly. The one in Palm Desert looked like it was pretty quick growing in the heat, so I bet it was 15-20 years old tops.

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2 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Actually, the Newport coconut was 40 years old, it just grew really slowly. The one in Palm Desert looked like it was pretty quick growing in the heat, so I bet it was 15-20 years old tops.

Hey Keith,

Wow, I didn't realize the Newport Beach palm was that old.  I agree with you, that the Palm Desert one was probably no more than 15 to 20 years old.  What I found very interesting about the Palm Desert one was how there were so many of the old leaf bases and matting starting about halfway up the trunk.  I have never seen that before.  The old leaf bases should have shed in order the leave the beautiful ringed trunk all the way up to just below the crown.  Maybe it has something to do with the palm attempting to adapt to the extremely dry conditions, as a way to retain more moisture in the trunk.

John

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2 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Actually, the Newport coconut was 40 years old, it just grew really slowly. The one in Palm Desert looked like it was pretty quick growing in the heat, so I bet it was 15-20 years old tops.

Yes, you're right that the one in Palm Desert was younger, as the house there was built in 1986 (I should have looked that up earlier). Based on that the Palm Desert cocos held the title only briefly before it was cut down. It was certainly the northernmost, just not the oldest.

However the Newport coconut got to about 32 depending on how old the seedling was (probably a year or two old):

 

067afebf.jpg

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36 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

What I found very interesting about the Palm Desert one was how there were so many of the old leaf bases and matting starting about halfway up the trunk.  I have never seen that before.  The old leaf bases should have shed in order the leave the beautiful ringed trunk all the way up to just below the crown.  Maybe it has something to do with the palm attempting to adapt to the extremely dry conditions, as a way to retain more moisture in the trunk.

It's the same thing with queens here in California, they retain the old leaf bases much longer due to dry air. In a humid climate the moisture collects inside the leaf base helping it to soften and break away from the trunk. My queens start shedding the boots a month or so after it rains.

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Whoops, typo. Meant 30 years, not 40 :)

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3 hours ago, Pando said:

It's the same thing with queens here in California, they retain the old leaf bases much longer due to dry air. In a humid climate the moisture collects inside the leaf base helping it to soften and break away from the trunk. My queens start shedding the boots a month or so after it rains.

I thought it would have something to do with the dryness there.  By retaining them longer, it probably helps the trunks to retain more moisture longer to compensate for the lack of water too.  I noticed that Queens get HUGE there, but I am wondering due to the dryness are they slower growing than the ones here in South Texas and in Florida where we have more rainfall than you guys?  If so, then the ones that are HUGE must be really old.

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In terms of absolute record it goes to California Coachella Valley in some spots. However the northernmost zone to reliably grow them outside/public places and keep them for a very long lifespan without any sort of heating aid or protection from cold would probably go to Madeira and Porto Santo (this one at 33) in my opinion.

Edited by Cluster
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I live in Atlantic Beach, FL (@ 30°20' N), right outside Jacksonville and decided to try my luck with a coconut palm. It's in a large planter right now, and I will wait at least another month or so to transplant it just in case we do happen to get hit with anymore freezes this winter. I am curious as to how much growth I will get on it this summer.

The coldest it's gotten here this winter (2015-16) is 30°F, and I don't foresee any lower temps than that this year. But here are the annual lows for the past several years for Jacksonville: (Probably a couple degrees warmer here by the beach):

2014-15: 28°F; 2013-14: 25°F; 2012-13: 28°F; 2011-12: 26°F; 2010-11: 24°F; 2009-10: 23°F (the killer freeze which i know damaged a lot of cocos in FL); 2008-09: 24°F; 2007-08: 28°F; 2006-07: 25°F; 2005-06: 28°F

As far as winter averages:

December: 67°F high and 50°F low, January: 64°F high and 47°F low, February: 67°F high and 50°F low

Overall, the winters are still very mild here. Daytime highs are usually in the 60s and only a few days each winter does the high fail to reach 50°F. As you can see from the records, anything below 25 is extremely rare.  The all-time record low (14°F) occurred in 1985. Furthermore, it hasn't dipped below 20 since Feb 1996. 

I know coconut palms grow best with soil temps above 60°F (which will definitely not be optimal in the winters here) and really suffer below 40°F, but from what I've heard they can survive brief drops below freezing occasionally.

I understand this is much further north than cocos can grow without special care, and even if I do manage to grow one, it won't be very luscious or fruitful compared to the south Florida cocos. I do know about the St Augustine coconut palm (about 20 miles from here) that was grown a few years back, but from what I saw on Google Street view it was wiped out by the Jan 2010 cold blast, which involved 11 out of 12 consecutive nights below freezing here. I did some research on Google Street view, and it looks like pre-2010 there were some in peoples' yards as far north as New Smyrna Beach (29°N, about 95 miles from me) and post-2010 there are some in Cocoa Beach (28°23'N) that still seem to be growing (145 miles from me). I've been to Orlando several times in the past few years, and have never noticed any cocos there, however. 

Regardless, I would like to think that it is possible to grow a coco here in NE Florida with a little extra work. I've definitely got an advantage being by the beach (east of the Intracoastal) and having sandy soil in the ground already. Any pointers/tips would be awesome. Should I try to transplant it into the ground this spring? or let it get a year of growth in the planter before doing that? I'm guessing I should get some good palm fertiliser too? Also, if it does dip below 40°F again this year (which it probably will a few more times), I can bring the pot inside temporarily. Once it's planted in the ground though, are there any special tricks for protecting it in future winters? (i.e. christmas lights, heaters, blankets, etc).i Any tips would be much appreciated. Yay coconut palm lovers!

IMG_3326.JPG

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 While Palm Desert, California may claim the  furthest northern coconut from the equator currently (33.70  decimal degrees/33.43  topographical map latitude north), the  Port Elizabeth, South Africa coconut remains the furthest from the equator  at 33.92  decimal degrees south or 33.58  topographical map degrees south.

I do not know  how far south the warm currents similar to the Gulfstream extend near Port Elizabeth, which may allow  for coconuts further south from the equator. As it relates to the northern hemisphere, the  location in turkey together with other described areas, including but not limited to the further northern desert areas in the  California desert remain obvious suspects. 

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4 hours ago, sbro1202 said:

I live in Atlantic Beach, FL (@ 30°20' N), right outside Jacksonville and decided to try my luck with a coconut palm. It's in a large planter right now, and I will wait at least another month or so to transplant it just in case we do happen to get hit with anymore freezes this winter. I am curious as to how much growth I will get on it this summer.

The coldest it's gotten here this winter (2015-16) is 30°F, and I don't foresee any lower temps than that this year. But here are the annual lows for the past several years for Jacksonville: (Probably a couple degrees warmer here by the beach):

2014-15: 28°F; 2013-14: 25°F; 2012-13: 28°F; 2011-12: 26°F; 2010-11: 24°F; 2009-10: 23°F (the killer freeze which i know damaged a lot of cocos in FL); 2008-09: 24°F; 2007-08: 28°F; 2006-07: 25°F; 2005-06: 28°F

As far as winter averages:

December: 67°F high and 50°F low, January: 64°F high and 47°F low, February: 67°F high and 50°F low

Overall, the winters are still very mild here. Daytime highs are usually in the 60s and only a few days each winter does the high fail to reach 50°F. As you can see from the records, anything below 25 is extremely rare.  The all-time record low (14°F) occurred in 1985. Furthermore, it hasn't dipped below 20 since Feb 1996. 

I know coconut palms grow best with soil temps above 60°F (which will definitely not be optimal in the winters here) and really suffer below 40°F, but from what I've heard they can survive brief drops below freezing occasionally.

I understand this is much further north than cocos can grow without special care, and even if I do manage to grow one, it won't be very luscious or fruitful compared to the south Florida cocos. I do know about the St Augustine coconut palm (about 20 miles from here) that was grown a few years back, but from what I saw on Google Street view it was wiped out by the Jan 2010 cold blast, which involved 11 out of 12 consecutive nights below freezing here. I did some research on Google Street view, and it looks like pre-2010 there were some in peoples' yards as far north as New Smyrna Beach (29°N, about 95 miles from me) and post-2010 there are some in Cocoa Beach (28°23'N) that still seem to be growing (145 miles from me). I've been to Orlando several times in the past few years, and have never noticed any cocos there, however. 

Regardless, I would like to think that it is possible to grow a coco here in NE Florida with a little extra work. I've definitely got an advantage being by the beach (east of the Intracoastal) and having sandy soil in the ground already. Any pointers/tips would be awesome. Should I try to transplant it into the ground this spring? or let it get a year of growth in the planter before doing that? I'm guessing I should get some good palm fertiliser too? Also, if it does dip below 40°F again this year (which it probably will a few more times), I can bring the pot inside temporarily. Once it's planted in the ground though, are there any special tricks for protecting it in future winters? (i.e. christmas lights, heaters, blankets, etc).i Any tips would be much appreciated. Yay coconut palm lovers!

IMG_3326.JPG

Stephen,

Welcome to the forum.  It's always nice to have more Coconut Palm lovers here.  Before I give you any advice on trying to successfully grow one in the ground where you live, I need to know if you have any producing Mango Trees and producing Papaya Trees in your area?

John

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Hi guys, I'm in Oz but originally from East London. I had only ever seen one coconut as an indoor plant. 

But apparently "there are magnificent specimens" in EL.... 

can anyone care to clarify where they are? 

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Yuma is a hot dry desert town about 75 miles north of the Sea of Cortez (Gulf of California) that is rarely wet or cold in the winter. Most winter days are in the 70's and sunny. Any nighttime cold is usually very dry. The town gets about 3 inches of rain a year. I have heard of coconuts growing in inland hot locations in Africa and the middle east if watered well. They seem to be able to take as much heat as a date palm but require a lot of water to live. They also need consistently warm soil for flowering. In most inland lowland jungles and rain forests soaring temps of 110+ are not uncommon on clear days and coco palms seem to live there. In theory if coconuts were sold at your common box store in Yuma there would probably be thousands of them that would make it long term until at least a cold snap came in and wiped some or most of them out. Probably every 50-100 years a cold enough snap would eliminate all unprotected ones. In 2007 the airport recorded one night down to 26 but that is unusual for the area. Its lack thereof is probably due to the fact that most folk don't think to germinate a coconut palm from a coconut or don't think they can grow in Yuma's climate. Probably about every 20-30 years a cold snap in the low to mid 20's (although brief and dry) would probably defoliate the coco palms and the ones planted with a black rock bed on south facing walls would probably do OK.


This photo shows a 30 year average minimum low from USDA interactive hardiness map.
 

plant-map1.jpg

Edited by tfinvold
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On 2/14/2016, 6:52:26, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Stephen,

Welcome to the forum.  It's always nice to have more Coconut Palm lovers here.  Before I give you any advice on trying to successfully grow one in the ground where you live, I need to know if you have any producing Mango Trees and producing Papaya Trees in your area?

John

I've seen guys use clear plastic paint drop sheets on the coldest nights with christmas lights under it on other posts and gently tie to the ground on cold nights. Sometimes if its howling windy it could blow it off so its a good idea to tie to a strong point on the tree. I wouldn't leave the plastic on there long term just for cold nights really.

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6 hours ago, tfinvold said:
On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2016‎ ‎7‎:‎52‎:‎26‎, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Stephen,

Welcome to the forum.  It's always nice to have more Coconut Palm lovers here.  Before I give you any advice on trying to successfully grow one in the ground where you live, I need to know if you have any producing Mango Trees and producing Papaya Trees in your area?

John

I've seen guys use clear plastic paint drop sheets on the coldest nights with christmas lights under it on other posts and gently tie to the ground on cold nights. Sometimes if its howling windy it could blow it off so its a good idea to tie to a strong point on the tree. I wouldn't leave the plastic on there long term just for cold nights really.

The reason I asked about if there are any producing Mango Trees and producing Papaya Trees there is that is a good indication of whether or not a Coconut Palm can survive there.  It doesn't necessarily mean that a coconut palm WILL survive there, as Mango Trees and Papayas are grown in cool winter 10A Climates that are too cool for Coconut Palms, such as Galveston Island for instance, but if there are no producing Mangos or Papayas there, then I can basically guarantee you, your climate is too cold in the winter to grow Coconut Palms.

John

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Nothing is impossible

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3 hours ago, Paranormal said:

 

Nothing is impossible

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1 - Kopya.jpg

2 - Kopya.jpg

Edited by Paranormal
mistake
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4 hours ago, Paranormal said:

mistɑke

31 minutes ago, Paranormal said:

 

4 hours ago, Paranormal said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, Paranormal said:

 

4 hours ago, Paranormal said:

mistɑke

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Paranormal
mistɑke
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4 hours ago, Paranormal said:

mistɑke

32 minutes ago, Paranormal said:

 

4 hours ago, Paranormal said:

mistɑke

 

 

 

 

 

1.thumb.jpg.c21757d211d8003260bd0204dac63.thumb.jpg.6c93291ad7077c9d1dc6cce214e3

32 minutes ago, Paranormal said:

mistɑke

4 hours ago, Paranormal said:

mistɑke

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

0

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