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Beccariophoenix alfredii


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#1 freakypalmguy

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 09:21 AM

12 inch tall strap leafer with 6 leaves and one emerging. In the ground with very sparse, almost non-exisitent canopy from a Syagrus r.

One night 29F light frost uncovered - no damage

Another night 29F light frost but covered this time. So far no damage.

Fingers crossed for this palm.

Matt
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Matt in Temecula, CA
Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and the ocean.
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#2 mnorell

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 04:03 PM

One strapleaf seedling planted out under open sky for testing purposes, approximately one year old; protected only with a loose leaf-mulch around the crown. exposed leaves burned completely at 23.3F, 15 hours below freezing with frost, on 3 Jan 2008. Tissue protected by the leaf-mulch was okay, spear is green and seems fine. Am guardedly hopeful that this palm will gain hardiness with age; but nevertheless it doesn't appear as hardy as some have suggested it might be.
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Michael Norell

Big Pine Key, Florida | 24° 40' N 81° 21' W | elev. 4.5 ft. | Zone 11b | Calcareous substrate
- avg annual min. approx. 48F | Jan 65/75F, July 83/89F | Historical extreme: approx. 41F

Natchez, Mississippi | 31° 33' N 91° 24' W | elev. 220 ft.| zone 9a | Downtown/river-adjacent microclimate | Loess substrate
- avg min. 23F / lows: 24F | 27 | 23 | 23 | 24 | 18 | 23 | 27 | 27 | 18 (2013-14) | Jan 43/61F, July 73/93F | Extreme: 2.5F (1899)


#3 Wai`anae Steve

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Posted 30 July 2008 - 11:33 PM

Just bought a 1 gallon plant. How big will it get? Part Sun?????????? Fast slow???????????
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#4 freakypalmguy

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 08:44 AM

I planted out three more of these. All about 1 year old, 6 - 10" tall strap leafers. All completely exposed other than some mulch around the crown as Michael mentioned above. Numerous nights at freezing, one night with many hours at 32F dropping to 31 in the morning. Leafs were completely covered in frost. Appeared to be frozen. showing some slight spotting and discoloration. These temps were taken at the top of my property and these plants are down the hill a bit, so I suspect they experienced a few degrees colder, maybe 27-29F.

The other individual that I have had in the ground for a year now was untouched.

If these survive this winter, I am going to plant a bunch more. It definitely seems to be able to take some cold.

Matt
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Matt in Temecula, CA
Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and the ocean.
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#5 freakypalmguy

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 10:57 AM

Update:

hit 26F and many hours at or below freezing. All showing some discoloration. Central leaf still green.
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Matt in Temecula, CA
Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and the ocean.
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#6 Kostas

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 08:55 AM

3 no leaf seedlings(eophyll was an emerging spear...) in large pots exposed to -2C for a couple of nights in total -> perfectly fine with no damage! They were kept dry during the freeze(and before) due to fear of rot.Havent lost a single one to rot however...

Now lets test them to harder freezes next winter...
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#7 DoomsDave

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:39 AM

Any updates from NZ or Oz?
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#8 Caryota_gigas

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:10 PM

Any updates from NZ or Oz?



Well I have put quite a few seedlings out in the frost over the last couple of years... they sometimes mark up a bit while frosted, but this soon clears within a day or 2. These are tough little plants.
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Michael
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#9 Palmə hl′ik

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:35 PM

That's what I wanna hear Michael! Thanks buddy.

~Ray.
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27.95N 82.28W (Elev. 62 ft)
Zone9 w/ canopy


#10 freakypalmguy

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 09:02 PM

Update on my palms,

of the four I have in the ground, one is dead, the others have all put out one strap leaf so far this summer. The one that died was frozen solid and I removed the ice by squeezing the frond between my fingers and pulling. I think that damaged the frond leading to a rapid decline in the palm. I won't do that again. I did not touch the others and they thawed and showed almost no cold damage. They all experienced a low of apx 26F and many morning, light frost events.

Matt
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Matt in Temecula, CA
Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and the ocean.
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#11 Palmə hl′ik

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 12:12 PM

Thanks Matt.
I usually get one morning of frost annually here in Brandon.
Maybe twice. You guys in Cali get alot colder than me here at 60' elevation too...
These'll do good here.
Sounds like they like sandy, river bed areas in habitat aswell... Another bonus for FL growers...

~Ray.
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27.95N 82.28W (Elev. 62 ft)
Zone9 w/ canopy


#12 ghar41

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:22 PM

I have a few of these under a shade cloth in 5 gallon pots....I'm very impressed with how they look after to consecutive nights of freezing temps...26.7 and 28F...not a spot on any of them. Im interested in watching how they deal with the long, cold, wet winter.
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Glenn
Modesto, California

Sunset Zone 14 USDA 9b

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.


#13 bepah

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 07:11 AM

So far, I do not see any damage on the ones I have. 1 in the ground, partially covered by dead banana leaves looks no different. The others in 2 gallon pots scattered around the yard also look fine so far, but I will withhold judgement until winter is over. I am hopeful however....
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#14 freakypalmguy

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 02:43 AM

These are one of the slowest palms I have growing :( Hopefully they pick up speed as the get older.
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Matt in Temecula, CA
Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and the ocean.
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#15 Caryota_gigas

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:05 AM

You obviously are not growing many SLOW palms.
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#16 Caryota_gigas

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:08 AM

2 and a 1/2 years from seed...

DSC01397.JPG
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Michael
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#17 freakypalmguy

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:40 PM

You obviously are not growing many SLOW palms.


Not true, but let me repharase that, They are slow as heck in my climate
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Matt in Temecula, CA
Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and the ocean.
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#18 Zeeth

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 02:31 PM

3 out of 4 took 31 with heavy frost fine. 1 has slight browning of one of it's leaves, but it was in the coldest spot of the yard so I relocated it to a better microclimate in case we get cold again.
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#19 AJQ

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 08:09 AM

I have 2 Beccariophoenix, madagascariensis and alfredii. Both have taken 3 weeks of sub zero temps with at least 2 excursions to -4c/24.8v and 2 lower dips to -5c/23f. very minor damage but generally both looking good.
They were covered in a 4 tier mini g along with a Jubaeopsis caffra which has taken substantial damage.
both Beccariophoenix are in pots the Jubaeopsis is in the ground.

Regards Andy.
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Bangor, Norin Iron Zone 9a Min temp normally around -3 Degrees C, rarely -6C. Only 2 x -2.0C so far, verging on 9b this year. No snow or Frost this Winter. Several just subzero's this year, lets hope it stays this way. Normally around 5C to 10C + in winter, with lots of wind & rain. Summers usually better, 20C to 25 C occasionally 25C to 28C, also quite humid being a coastal town

#20 Gallop

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 08:39 AM

My Beccariophoenix, madagascariensis 7gal size and alfredii 20gal size in the ground unprotected have light damage @ 13 nights below freezing low was around 21˚f for up to 10hr periods. I see no difference in hardiness from the high plataue alfredii and the madagascariensis
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#21 AJQ

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 08:41 AM

Both of mine did not make it, 2 consecutive weeks with all days sub zero and nights lower.

Michael, what was your lowest temps and duration? Generally our temps should be similar with slighty higher summer temps for yourself and slightly lower winter temps for me.

What size is the one in your photo? I have another which is 90cms tall that I shall try again, as I think this winter here was exceptional rather than the norm.

Paul, do you have any photo's of your 2 ?
That is very encouraging info you have there.

Beccariophoenix Alfredii and Madagascarensis 005.jpg

Beccariophoenix Alfredii and Madagascarensis 006.jpg

Regards Andy.

Edited by AJQ, 22 March 2010 - 08:43 AM.

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Bangor, Norin Iron Zone 9a Min temp normally around -3 Degrees C, rarely -6C. Only 2 x -2.0C so far, verging on 9b this year. No snow or Frost this Winter. Several just subzero's this year, lets hope it stays this way. Normally around 5C to 10C + in winter, with lots of wind & rain. Summers usually better, 20C to 25 C occasionally 25C to 28C, also quite humid being a coastal town

#22 Gallop

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 09:39 AM

It took some time but my madagascariensis did end up showing severe damage, it most likely wont make it, however the high plataue alfredi shows no damage. I've spoken a little to soon on a few of my plants this winter only to see damage later. I'll post a pic of the alfredi when I get off my ship.

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#23 Caryota_gigas

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 12:54 PM

Andy,

My palms have not, and will never see two weeks of day time temps below freezing.
All the temps I had are recorded here: FROST THREAD
But you have already read all that. My experiments were based solely on frost really, and not prolonged cold. I wanted to see what plants were burnt by frost, and at what temps.
The biggest problem I see with you having success with these palms, (and most others) is the prolonged cold you get, that we do not get in Auckland.
The coldest day temp. high in Auckland that I can ever recall is 9C, this happened last year, thankfully I was in Brisbane where it was 34C at the time. So we never get days anywhere near as cold as you, and the overnight cold patches are eratic and not prolonged. We may get a low of -3C overnight and early morning, but then the day may heat up to 15C. And the overnight low the next night may be as high as 10C... it all depends on the cloud cover. Thankfully we do not have weeks on end that are freezing cold.

The palm above is 1000mm tall with a circumference at the base of 180mm.
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#24 krishnaraoji88

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 05:10 PM

My Beccariophoenix, madagascariensis 7gal size and alfredii 20gal size in the ground unprotected have light damage @ 13 nights below freezing low was around 21˚f for up to 10hr periods. I see no difference in hardiness from the high plataue alfredii and the madagascariensis


Did your alfredii have any protection or was it out in the open? If that is the case it looks as if it is as hardy as, if not hardier than S. romanzoffiana...

-Krishna
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Gardening in Zone 9a Inland North Central Florida (Ocala)
Freezes yearly, down to about 20 degrees with frost


#25 Zeeth

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 04:24 PM

it looks as if it is as hardy as, if not hardier than S. romanzoffiana...

-Krishna


Even though I think this is a really promising palm, I have serious doubts about that statement. I saw zero queens around me with any damage at all, but my B. alfrediis all had some sort of damage. Of course, this could be a similar situation to Bismarckia, where some of them are really hardy but some are wimps, and we have to wait a while to sort through the non hardy ones to find the hardy ones and use those for the breeding stock. I also noticed that they are damaged more by frost than cold, as palms in the shade can take down to 19F with no damage (happened in Brandon, Fl this year) as long as there was no frost, but if there is frost, I'd say they are damaged at temps in the high 20's, with more damage caused by more frost.
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#26 krishnaraoji88

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 07:59 PM

it looks as if it is as hardy as, if not hardier than S. romanzoffiana...

-Krishna


Even though I think this is a really promising palm, I have serious doubts about that statement. I saw zero queens around me with any damage at all, but my B. alfrediis all had some sort of damage. Of course, this could be a similar situation to Bismarckia, where some of them are really hardy but some are wimps, and we have to wait a while to sort through the non hardy ones to find the hardy ones and use those for the breeding stock. I also noticed that they are damaged more by frost than cold, as palms in the shade can take down to 19F with no damage (happened in Brandon, Fl this year) as long as there was no frost, but if there is frost, I'd say they are damaged at temps in the high 20's, with more damage caused by more frost.


Thanks for the info, I wasnt saying that it was but was saying that if what Gallop said was applying to an alfredii out in the open then this might be true so I wasnt aiming to make any "statement" :lol: I had figured from looking at the other reports on here that what you have said is probably the case. A question for you though on it, you say that they dont get burned much when protected from frost but do they grow well in the shade? Just curious and thanks for your help Zeeth!

-Krishna
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#27 Zeeth

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Posted 24 March 2010 - 03:26 AM


it looks as if it is as hardy as, if not hardier than S. romanzoffiana...

-Krishna


Even though I think this is a really promising palm, I have serious doubts about that statement. I saw zero queens around me with any damage at all, but my B. alfrediis all had some sort of damage. Of course, this could be a similar situation to Bismarckia, where some of them are really hardy but some are wimps, and we have to wait a while to sort through the non hardy ones to find the hardy ones and use those for the breeding stock. I also noticed that they are damaged more by frost than cold, as palms in the shade can take down to 19F with no damage (happened in Brandon, Fl this year) as long as there was no frost, but if there is frost, I'd say they are damaged at temps in the high 20's, with more damage caused by more frost.


A question for you though on it, you say that they dont get burned much when protected from frost but do they grow well in the shade? Just curious and thanks for your help Zeeth!

-Krishna


Well, They do better in the shade during cold, but they crave full blazing sun when its hot, so I think if one grows them in a pot for the first years of it's life, they can be transitioned according to the weather until too big. I'd say if they are being grown in zone 9a, overhead canopy but not dense shade would probably be the best. They will grow slower, but they won't die in the winter.
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#28 Sutter Bob

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 09:36 PM

So far this palm looks very promising for this area. My only seedling got through several days of frost into the low 20s with minimal protection in early December without a scratch and handled blazing 100 degree direct sunlight last summer without any trouble.
I suspect it might thrive even in open areas - we'll see!
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#29 Zeeth

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 11:32 AM

Update: Out of the 4 plants that were subjected to the cold, 2 had spear pull and 2 didn't. The 2 with spear pull have now grown new spears and are really cranking up the speed. Highly recommend these.
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Keith Zimmerman
 
Sarasota, Florida (10a), moving soon to Palmetto, Florida (9b).

 

 


#30 Xenon

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 12:19 PM

Based on the reports, seems like this palm could last a few years in my area before another 2010-like freeze....
-Jonathan
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#31 Austinpalm

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 07:30 AM

Two 2-gallon sized plants in the ground under canopy exhibited leaf spotting after an ultimate low of 16F with multiple nights with upper 20's and low 30's. Both were protected with a plastic pot and leaves on the coldest night.

Edited by Austinpalm, 04 June 2010 - 07:32 AM.

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#32 Rafael

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 05:37 AM

One night 28F for two hours. Heavy frost.
Two nights 30F for five hours. Light frost.
Always covered, but not heated...
Some damage...
Let's wait...

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#33 buccaneers37

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:08 AM

My two were completely undamaged. 29.1, 29.1 one week and 24.8, 26.1 a week and a half later. I did wimp out and cover them against frost, though.

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#34 gsytch

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 07:11 AM

Mine was lost last year. 2yr old seedling. Survived many upper 20's last winter until a HEAVY frost set in. Then it was downhill. It was about 4 ft. RIP> :drool:
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#35 sonoranfans

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 05:15 PM

My alfredii was fully pinnate with 8 fronds, 30,28.5 with frost two nights in a row, its now looking quite bronzed after a week like rafaels. It looked OK initially but days later it doesnt look good. It surely isnt very frost tolerant. One in a container that was covered was OK. This palm looks like a wuss in a frost. Too bad, as it wants full sun, but needs to be covered in a frost event. I guess the "coco look alike" that is going to survive and look well here is the mule palm.
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#36 ghar41

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:27 AM

I have a few of these under a shade cloth in 5 gallon pots....I'm very impressed with how they look after to consecutive nights of freezing temps...26.7 and 28F...not a spot on any of them. Im interested in watching how they deal with the long, cold, wet winter.


These did and continue to do fine under the shade cloth in pots, winter temperatures, this year 29F so far. It is a protected locatation with southeast exposure.

However, when they are taken out from under the shade cloth, and exposed to frost and open sky, they start to show discoloration and damage.
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Glenn
Modesto, California

Sunset Zone 14 USDA 9b

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.


#37 freakypalmguy

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 05:25 AM

Multiple nights below freezing (low of around 28F) and multiple light frosts and mine that are fully exposed are very bronzed. These are not as cold hardy as hoped. They are cool hardy, but not truely cold hardy.
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Matt in Temecula, CA
Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and the ocean.
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#38 yachtingone

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 06:47 AM

Multiple nights below freezing (low of around 28F) and multiple light frosts and mine that are fully exposed are very bronzed. These are not as cold hardy as hoped. They are cool hardy, but not truely cold hardy.



Matt,
We have the same climate. Yours were just planted. Mine has been in the ground for over a year

Mine looks great.

Randy
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test

#39 freakypalmguy

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 04:43 AM


Multiple nights below freezing (low of around 28F) and multiple light frosts and mine that are fully exposed are very bronzed. These are not as cold hardy as hoped. They are cool hardy, but not truely cold hardy.



Matt,
We have the same climate. Yours were just planted. Mine has been in the ground for over a year

Mine looks great.

Randy


Negative, plants in the ground for 3 years look equally bad.
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Matt in Temecula, CA
Hot and dry in the summer, cold with light frost in the winter. Halfway between the desert and the ocean.
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#40 yachtingone

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 05:45 AM

huh:blink:
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