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    • PRIVATE MESSAGING - IMPORTANT NOTICE   01/02/2017

      There has been some confusion regarding the Messaging System on PalmTalk - and what is private and what is posted publicly. I've been asked to explain the two. There are two forms of messages - what I will call "Private Messages" which are Private, and "Activity Messages" which are public. A Private Message is designated with an envelope icon. It is available at the top of every page (click it and use "Compose New"). It is also accessible by hovering over a User's name or Avatar and clicking the envelope icon. Or it is also available on a User's Profile Page - at the top - again, with the envelope icon. Anywhere you see this envelope icon, you can click it and send a Private Message. An "Activity Message" is public. These are the "What's on your Mind" and "Leave a Message on [User X's] Feed" boxes where you can leave a public message directly as a Status Update (on your Profile or Main PT Page) or on a User's Profile Page - which updates his Status Update and also posts on PT's Main Status Update Page. These are "Activities" and labeled as such on the Profile Pages.  What is confusing is that both options (Private and Activity) are available on a User's Profile Page.  Just remember, that if you want to send a Private Message, use the envelope icon link - wherever you see it. That will get you to the Private Messaging Center. Any other "Status Update," like "What's on your Mind," or "Leave a Message on [so-and-so's] Feed," is public. I would make it less confusing if I could, but I can't.

Beccariophoenix alfredii

200 posts in this topic

I planted 2 out in the summer of 2013. After a week in the ground I dug one and moved it. In the process I severed a significant section of root. All I could do was plant it and hope for the best.

Its growth was very stunted in comparison to the undamaged one. But a year later it seems to be recovering and is starting to grow more aggressively again. In other words, Alfies are tough!

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I think I can now safely say that the alfies under canopy were completely undamaged at 24 degrees with a total of 11 hours below freezing.

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That's handy info to know Keith. How big are they??

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WoooooooHooooooo! I have two ready to go in the ground this spring under my newly acquired live oak canopy. Keith, you are my hero!

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I'd imagine these will behave like another Madagascar palm..... Bizmarkia. Very cold tolerant, just don't let em get frosty.

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I wonder if some sort of frost-pruf spray would work on these.

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I was just reading this thread and saw where BEPAH commented that there were few trunking specimens of this tree in the US. I am surprised to hear this. Has it not been widely used in cultivation for about ten years now, at least in California? If so, it must have a slow growth rate if none have any trunk after ten years in the ground. Do we have any real data on its growth rate?

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I was just reading this thread and saw where BEPAH commented that there were few trunking specimens of this tree in the US. I am surprised to hear this. Has it not been widely used in cultivation for about ten years now, at least in California? If so, it must have a slow growth rate if none have any trunk after ten years in the ground. Do we have any real data on its growth rate?

These guys are big and beefy, so it takes a while for them to get to the thickness needed before they trunk. They grow pretty quickly until the leaves are the right length, then they seem to spend a few years thickening up. I don't actually know of any palms in cultivation with trunk. I don't think Pete Balasky's palms have trunk, and I believe they're the oldest. Jeff Searle's one at his nursery is pretty big, but I don't know if it's trunking or not.

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15 gallon left out exposed to one night at 23 degrees, has about 30% leaf burn. Comparing last years freezes and this years, looks like they will handle low twenties for one night but extended periods of freeze will leave them close to dead.

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I think I can now safely say that the alfies under canopy were completely undamaged at 24 degrees with a total of 11 hours below freezing.

Sadly, I must correct myself here. This seems to be a palm that shows its damage late. I am now revising to say that at 24 degrees, unprotected but under canopy, I believe I will see 100 percent defoliation by spring. Yes, I know it is a big swing from my earlier post, but they showed no damage until now. I was shocked, to say the least. They are still young though, so they may harden up with age.

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I think I can now safely say that the alfies under canopy were completely undamaged at 24 degrees with a total of 11 hours below freezing.

Sadly, I must correct myself here. This seems to be a palm that shows its damage late. I am now revising to say that at 24 degrees, unprotected but under canopy, I believe I will see 100 percent defoliation by spring. Yes, I know it is a big swing from my earlier post, but they showed no damage until now. I was shocked, to say the least. They are still young though, so they may harden up with age.

Well that's unfortunate. It seems that this decade has been very unfavorable for palm growing in your area.

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:bummed: May have to change what palms get front row seats. Though the alfie gives a coconut look, I'm not going for the "dead coconut" look.

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A revision on my 15 gallon. Spear pulled this weekend, folage 90% gone. Hopefully will comeback like my last years experiment. Damage on the other semi tender stuff I reprted has not gotten worse.

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OK, spring is here. 24 degrees, under canopy, unprotected. Unhappy, but they should recover fully.

post-1207-0-90761200-1425781202_thumb.jp

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Is 24 F the lowest ever you experienced?

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19F two nights in a row.  ~36 hours below freezing.  Covered with 1.5 oz frost cloth.  Heavily damaged.  Spear appears green still but feel this is likely 50% or less chance of survival... time will tell.

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1 hour ago, meteorologistpalmguy said:

19F two nights in a row.  ~36 hours below freezing.  Covered with 1.5 oz frost cloth.  Heavily damaged.  Spear appears green still but feel this is likely 50% or less chance of survival... time will tell.

Yikes.  If it survives this I would be concerned about other cold events that may finish off the weakened palm.  If you have a way to add a heat source I would urge you to do it. 

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So, its done, for now, with nights at 24 and then 25.   The B alfredii show no apparent damage, but as I remember they take a while so we'll see.  This is what the split leaf Philodendrons near them looked like this morning.

15844773_10154400077147424_4201037194694592140_o.jpg

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33 minutes ago, _Keith said:

So, its done, for now, with nights at 24 and then 25.   The B alfredii show no apparent damage, but as I remember they take a while so we'll see.  This is what the split leaf Philodendrons near them looked like this morning.

15844773_10154400077147424_4201037194694592140_o.jpg

Ouch, I grow the split leaf as well. The good thing is they come back very easily come spring.

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Hey old buddy. Always interesting to see your reports on the alfies. Mine were in pots in the greenhouse. Official low was 25 in Houma but my thermometer in my jungle read at 27. Interesting that I see split leafs all over here that look fine compared to your wilted lettuce. My Monsteras on the other hand.... not so good. I am gonna wait for the dust to settle before posting a full damage report. But, as of now it looks like all palms are good........

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19 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

Hey old buddy. Always interesting to see your reports on the alfies. Mine were in pots in the greenhouse. Official low was 25 in Houma but my thermometer in my jungle read at 27. Interesting that I see split leafs all over here that look fine compared to your wilted lettuce. My Monsteras on the other hand.... not so good. I am gonna wait for the dust to settle before posting a full damage report. But, as of now it looks like all palms are good........

Thanks to you, I may soon be the world's foremost leading authority on the cold hardiness of alfredii.

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12 hours ago, _Keith said:

Thanks to you, I may soon be the world's foremost leading authority on the cold hardiness of alfredii.

Keith, please keep us updated.  I've been hesitant to plant mine believing this palms reputed cold hardiness was way overblown.  Your results will sway me one way or the other.:D 

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7 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

Keith, please keep us updated.  I've been hesitant to plant mine believing this palms reputed cold hardiness was way overblown.  Your results will sway me one way or the other.:D 

Same

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Well, after a couple of warm days, still looking awesome.   Sure got my fingers crossed.  Still too late to tell for sure.

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On 1/25/2015, 4:38:56, _Keith said:

 

Sadly, I must correct myself here. This seems to be a palm that shows its damage late. I am now revising to say that at 24 degrees, unprotected but under canopy, I believe I will see 100 percent defoliation by spring. Yes, I know it is a big swing from my earlier post, but they showed no damage until now. I was shocked, to say the least. They are still young though, so they may harden up with age.

Ouch!

But, a lot of things do get tougher with size.

Let us know.

 

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On 1/10/2017, 6:56:16, _Keith said:

Well, after a couple of warm days, still looking awesome.   Sure got my fingers crossed.  Still too late to tell for sure.

Pow, downwards they go.  Looks like 100% foliage burn.  Morbidity unknown.

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25 minutes ago, _Keith said:

Pow, downwards they go.  Looks like 100% foliage burn.  Morbidity unknown.

I wonder if they're just as hardy as one of those Jamaican Tall cocos. I think Walt's Dwarf coco has seen equal or a tad lower temps than what your Alfredii was subject to.  

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7 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

I wonder if they're just as hardy as one of those Jamaican Tall cocos. I think Walt's Dwarf coco has seen equal or a tad lower temps than what your Alfredii was subject to.  

Walt's coconut really doesn't count when you consider what he does to protect it.

 

Thanks for the update Keith, I'm hoping your Alfrediis will make it.

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13 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

I wonder if they're just as hardy as one of those Jamaican Tall cocos. I think Walt's Dwarf coco has seen equal or a tad lower temps than what your Alfredii was subject to.  

Hmmmph I was considering putting a beccariophoenix in the ground under canopy and protecting it just like Walt but..... come on! Full foliage burn at 25 I'm Not sure if it's worth it! 

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19 hours ago, _Keith said:

Pow, downwards they go.  Looks like 100% foliage burn.  Morbidity unknown.

So not really a reliable zone 9 palm as some have suggested.  I was afraid of that.  I'll plant an Acrocomia crispa instead. Please continue to keep us updated Keith.

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4 hours ago, SubTropicRay said:

So not really a reliable zone 9 palm as some have suggested.  I was afraid of that.  I'll plant an Acrocomia crispa instead. Please continue to keep us updated Keith.

Certainly not a Zone 9a, maybe 9b,  but I think it would be best in 10a and above.

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Tampa should be perfectly warm enough for B. alfredii, especially in your area.

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1 hour ago, _Keith said:

Certainly not a Zone 9a, maybe 9b,  but I think it would be best in 10a and above.

Reading the first pages in this thread and your conclusion seems to be in line with the folks who experimented with that palm. It's not as hardy as Palmpedia makes it out to be.

 

Edited by GottmitAlex
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Keith will an alfie regrow a new crown of leaves in 1 summer Walt says his coconut will

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19 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

Keith will an alfie regrow a new crown of leaves in 1 summer Walt says his coconut will

Doc, they will indeed.   As time passes, the look a little better than I thought.  Largest one took the hardest hit as it was on the edge of cover.   I am still thinking it is near 100% foliage lost.   The other 3 deeper under the oaks may settle in at 50% or less.  I remember from last time, it is just hard to tell as the a lot of latency before they show damage.  

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Well like I said no more zone denial this type of freeze will happen probably every 2 or 3 years. Protecting the bud is no problem like Walt and I have canopy now and man they look like coconuts! I still may try one. I would probably pop a greenhouse over it until no longer possible and then go to bud protection mode

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Interesting that they seem to take ~25˚ in California without damage, but those temps in a humid climate cause defoliation.

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Mine saw 26 with no damage last year. A few years ago it got snow on it when it was still in a pot. Definitely takes frost much better than a King will. I bet humidity can play a roll in it as well.

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3 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Interesting that they seem to take ~25˚ in California without damage, but those temps in a humid climate cause defoliation.

Our cold fronts are almost always preceded by rain, which means they are both wet and frozen, all the way into the crown.

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dry 'em off with a blow dryer before the freeze sets in?

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