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Syargrus amara, coronata, and sancona


osideterry

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I'm curious about getting at least one of these. I know S. botryphora and S. schizophylla don't stand a chance in my yard.

Which one is coldhardiest?

Which one is fastest?

Which is the best overall?

Zone 9b/10a, Sunset Zone 22

7 miles inland. Elevation 120ft (37m)

Average annual low temp: 30F (-1C)

Average annual rainfall: 8" (20cm)

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S. amara is probably as cold hardy as S. botryphora.

S. coronata is about as cold hardy as a Triangle.

S. sancona seems to be a tad bit hardier than S. coronata.

Does that help?

Christian Faulkner

Venice, Florida - South Sarasota County.

www.faulknerspalms.com

 

Μολὼν λάβε

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Speed from slow to fast:

S. coronata

S. sancona

S. amara

Best overall?

Close call between S. sancona and S. amara, but I like the particular specimens of S. sancona near me. That should be a personal choice though.  :)

Christian Faulkner

Venice, Florida - South Sarasota County.

www.faulknerspalms.com

 

Μολὼν λάβε

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The S. amara did better in the freeze files than I would have guessed, but I knew it would probably be a choice between the other two. I had one respected source claim the S. coronata more coldhardy.

It's a close call for me - I like the look of the coronata better, but the sancona is supposed to be faster. Looks like I'll have to get both and see for myself.

Zone 9b/10a, Sunset Zone 22

7 miles inland. Elevation 120ft (37m)

Average annual low temp: 30F (-1C)

Average annual rainfall: 8" (20cm)

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Terry,

I had S. coronata growing in my old garden for a couple years.  I dug it up in the middle of the winter last year, and it looks like it's going to survive, so I'd say it's pretty cold hardy....

I planted it as a small strap leaf seedling from a one gallon container, and when I dug it it was pinnate with leaves over 1m (3.5ft) long and a base diameter of probably 5-6cm (2+ in).  Not like a queen palm, but it wasn't slow.  

Jack

Jack Sayers

East Los Angeles

growing cold tolerant palms halfway between the equator and the arctic circle...

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I have all three and for me Sancona is the fastest and amara the slowest.I think both coronata and amara spend the first few years growing a deep root system and then growth speeds up dramatically.My absolute coldest temperture is a balmy 64F.

                                                  Scott

El Oasis - beach garden, distinct wet/dry season ,year round 20-38c

Las Heliconias - jungle garden ,800m elevation,150+ inches rainfall, year round 15-28c

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I'm leaning toward S. sancona. Mostly for the combination of speed and hardiness.

As I look up photos of coronata, the more troubling that torquing mass of leaf-bases looks.

Zone 9b/10a, Sunset Zone 22

7 miles inland. Elevation 120ft (37m)

Average annual low temp: 30F (-1C)

Average annual rainfall: 8" (20cm)

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I grew a sancona from seed when I lived in Tampa.  It was slow for the first few years and then took off once it went into the ground.  Have you seen the picture from RPS?  It's a beautiful palm, I would go with this one.    

Syagrus sancona

Formerly Jeff in Costa Rica
 

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Syagrus coronata is the hardiest and the slowest grower of the 3. It is hardier than S. amara and S. sancona but less hardy than S. romanzoffiana. Syagrus amara and S. sancona are just slightly hardier than Cocos nucifera. S. sancona is probably the fastest grower.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Terry,

I love the look of S. amara, so I have several. All survived the freeze nearly unscathed, which surprised me. My oldest is nearly 5 years old, about 4 ft. tall, and still strap leafed. But all Syagrus, at least in my yard, (including the baby queens under the mama plant), are soooo slow to lose their strap leaves. Since I had heard that S. amara was amoung the most cold sensitive specie, I also got a few S. botryophora this year, figuring that they should be easy. Do I understand that you've heard they're too tender for your area?

Bret

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

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Thanks for all the input everyone.

Bret - I saw a tall S. botryphora in 10b orange county with 75% burn and figured it a no-go for me. I'm in a low area and my kentias still look bad from this past January. My average low here is 30F, but three of the last four years have been 28F, 28F, and 26F.

Zone 9b/10a, Sunset Zone 22

7 miles inland. Elevation 120ft (37m)

Average annual low temp: 30F (-1C)

Average annual rainfall: 8" (20cm)

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Terry, do like me n' just get em' all!!  :D

Dave Hughson

Carlsbad, Ca

1 mile from ocean

Zone 10b

Palm freaks are good peeps!!!!!

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Jeff - that one you linked me to is a beauty. You sold me on it. I could grow one side-by-side with an Australian Foxtail and see which one wins that contest.

Zone 9b/10a, Sunset Zone 22

7 miles inland. Elevation 120ft (37m)

Average annual low temp: 30F (-1C)

Average annual rainfall: 8" (20cm)

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S. amara is the most beautiful of the three (in my humble opinion).

Dr. U.A. Young's Syagrus coronata survived Tampa's 19F in 1983.  It is probably the second most cold hardy in the genus.

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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Ray,

Is this the Syagrus you mentioned? The log identifies it as S. quinquefaria which is an invalid name for S. romanzoffiana. I think is is probably at least a S. coronata hybrid from what I've been told. As you can see from these pictures from about two weeks ago, there is a developing infructesence. If anyone locally would like to try some of the seeds, let me know.

Brad

IMGP2231.jpg

IMGP2230.jpg

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Hi Brad,

Yes, that's the one to which I was referring.   I'd say it is a mostly coronata hybrid.   I'm game for some seed.  Besides, I need still need to stop by for a photo session.

Ray

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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Ray,

that will be at least ONE you won't have to worry about during  the winter! :D

Scott

Titusville, FL

1/2 mile from the Indian River

USDA Zone COLD

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  • 4 weeks later...

Bumping this thread to show you the Syagrus sancona I just picked up. Pretty nice size for a 5-gallon (note ruler), and the price was right. Everyone's input helped me make the decision. Looking forward to planting it next Spring.

post-662-1194735321_thumb.jpg

Zone 9b/10a, Sunset Zone 22

7 miles inland. Elevation 120ft (37m)

Average annual low temp: 30F (-1C)

Average annual rainfall: 8" (20cm)

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Look guys......I don't want to offend anyone, or appear to be brushing all the cards off the table with one swoop, and I'm sure there are a lot of other old hands out there gritting their teeth, but the truth is with the exception of S. romanzoffianum, and to a much lesser degree, S. coronata, all of the Syagrus mentioned are TROPICAL PALMS, and they won't last long where frost might be expected. All of these palms grow pretty darn fast in a tropical climate, but if they grow slowly for you, and get brown tipped with a little frost, then they are probably something you don't want to waste time or money on.

I'm sure the palm growing at Dr. Youngs place is a hybrid or it wouldn't have taken 19 F. There are lots of hybrids coming along with either Butia or Queen in them that will take some cold. I agree, S. amara and sancona are beautiful palms....but they are tropical, and they like warm nights. Sorry, but they do not like California. I'm just waiting for the day when we can get S. amara, sancona and botryophora hybrids. They might even grow for me in cool N. Calif. So far, with the exception of anything with Jubaea, the hybrid palms have shown hybrid vigor and grow much faster than either of their parents, and they tend to be amazingly cold hardy.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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Dick - With the exception of Eric in Orlando, you are the first in this thread to give S. sancona an unfavorable recommendation. For some reason, my SoCal guide rates it's at 26F and a moderately fast grower. I don't take what you are saying lightly, because it echoes Geof Stein's opinion on another forum - which is ironic considering his involvement in the SoCal guide.

I appreciate your input, and will try not to have unrealistic expectations. I just need to get a S. coronata to grow next to this one now. :;):

Zone 9b/10a, Sunset Zone 22

7 miles inland. Elevation 120ft (37m)

Average annual low temp: 30F (-1C)

Average annual rainfall: 8" (20cm)

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I  have  ready  to put  in the  ground    Syagrus  Yungasensis, picrophylla, &  pseudococos( yes pseudococos),  

This  3  syagrus  passed    happily  last  3  years  , in  a  garden  near  Rome,(in  the  ground)  and  this  give  me  the  imput  to  try  this  3  sp.

In  the  same  garden  died  miserabely,  Amara, Oleracea,& botryophora,  plus  more  that  I  can't  remember

Is  very  hard  to  say  , what  is  that  allow  at  some  palms to   survive  belove  determinate   temperatures, in   some  places ,   and  what  don't  permit  that  in  others  places,   with  similar   ambient  temperature

M@x

M@x

North Rome Italy

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Theres some variation in individuals I reckon .   I saw a large full term S. coronata at Faiths in old Myaaka .  It has tolerated 22F about a decade ago. I have been afraid to try them up in Jax hence the hybrid experiments.

Does any one have any photos of young S. coronatas to post ?

Best regards,

Ed

Edwin Brown III

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Wierd, looking at the pic of the sancona, it looks nothing like the one in my yard (about the same size)  of course it could be because my tree is in full sun.  My tree grows mostly out not up, if that makes sense..   Im going to have to grab some pics tomorrow, ill post one up for comparison.  Im curious though, the sancona pictured doesnt have what appears to be many different leaf planes.  I wonder why that is, mine exhibits it as do the other linked pictures.

since theres a 15' amara with about 5' of wood nearby so I have to assume sancona is a go at least for a while.

Allen

Galveston Island Tx

9a/9b

8' Elevation

Sandy Soil

Jan Avgs 50/62

Jul Avgs 80/89

Average Annual Rainfall 43.5"

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Allen - The one in my photo was in a greenhouse a week ago. It's probably pretty stretched. I am curious that it's leaves are planar instead of plumose also. I could look very different after a couple years in the ground, and in full sun.

Zone 9b/10a, Sunset Zone 22

7 miles inland. Elevation 120ft (37m)

Average annual low temp: 30F (-1C)

Average annual rainfall: 8" (20cm)

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My absolute favorite of the genus is sancona. I planted out a one gallon (15" tall) specimen in 2000. It is the far left deepest green palm. You can now understand why it is often referred to as the "Columbian foxtail." It is fast, but it IS a tropical palm that enjoys humidity, and warm nights.

DSC01090.jpg

Rick Leitner

Fort Lauderdale, Florida

26.07N/80.15W

Zone 10B

Average Annual Low 67 F

Average Annual High 84 F

Average Annual Rainfall 62"

 

Riverfront exposure, 1 mile from Atlantic Ocean

Part time in the western mountains of North Carolina

Gratefully, the best of both worlds!

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(osideterry @ Nov. 10 2007,18:11)

QUOTE
Dick - With the exception of Eric in Orlando, you are the first in this thread to give S. sancona an unfavorable recommendation. For some reason, my SoCal guide rates it's at 26F and a moderately fast grower. I don't take what you are saying lightly, because it echoes Geof Stein's opinion on another forum - which is ironic considering his involvement in the SoCal guide.

I appreciate your input, and will try not to have unrealistic expectations. I just need to get a S. coronata to grow next to this one now. :;):

My sancona has grown nearly flawlessly for five years in my Northern CA garden. It now stands about 12 feet tall, is growing in a partially shady spot and experienced 26F last winter with only some very small spotting on a couple of leaves. My S. amara (24" seedling) didn't make it. S. sancona is one of my favorite species and I now have three of them.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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Heres my sancona, its been in the ground for about 9mths, from a 7 gal ( i think)

With this palm, for me it was a case of beggars cant be choosers, I take whatever I can find at the local rummage shop :)  what Id do for a real palm nursery!

DSCN2085Small.jpg

DSCN2107Small.jpg

DSCN2108Small.jpg

Allen

Galveston Island Tx

9a/9b

8' Elevation

Sandy Soil

Jan Avgs 50/62

Jul Avgs 80/89

Average Annual Rainfall 43.5"

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Way to go Allen! It's a beautiful species. Grows slower than a queen but the wait is worth it.

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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(Jim in Los Altos @ Nov. 13 2007,00:57)

QUOTE

(osideterry @ Nov. 10 2007,18:11)

QUOTE
Dick - With the exception of Eric in Orlando, you are the first in this thread to give S. sancona an unfavorable recommendation. For some reason, my SoCal guide rates it's at 26F and a moderately fast grower. I don't take what you are saying lightly, because it echoes Geof Stein's opinion on another forum - which is ironic considering his involvement in the SoCal guide.

I appreciate your input, and will try not to have unrealistic expectations. I just need to get a S. coronata to grow next to this one now. :;):

My sancona has grown nearly flawlessly for five years in my Northern CA garden. It now stands about 12 feet tall, is growing in a partially shady spot and experienced 26F last winter with only some very small spotting on a couple of leaves. My S. amara (24" seedling) didn't make it. S. sancona is one of my favorite species and I now have three of them.

Hey Jim!  

Pictures!  Pictures! Pictures!  Please!  :D  :D  :D

Glenn

Modesto, California

 

Sunset Zone 14   USDA 9b

 

Low Temp. 19F/-7C 12-20-1990         

 

High Temp. 111F/43C 07-23-2006

 

Annual Average Precipitation 13.12 inches/yr.

 

             

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(osideterry @ Oct. 18 2007,10:50)

QUOTE
Thanks for all the input everyone.

Bret - I saw a tall S. botryphora in 10b orange county with 75% burn and figured it a no-go for me. I'm in a low area and my kentias still look bad from this past January. My average low here is 30F, but three of the last four years have been 28F, 28F, and 26F.

Yow, that is quite a number of cold snaps.

Yeah, I gotta concur, S. schizophylla took a nasty beating at my place this winter, with four days of 27 F.

But, it's coming back nicely.  I suspect it'll take the cold better as it gets bigger.

dave

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

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Does anyone know the practical height of Syagrus sancona in CA?  I know it can be 100' in its habitat, and, while it is a beautiful palm, not too many hundred-footers look good on CA lots.  :)

Jason

Menlo Park, CA  (U.S.A.) hillside

Min. temp Jan 2007:  28.1 deg. F (-2.2 deg. C)

Min. temp winter 2008: 34.7 deg. F (1.5 deg. C)

USDA Zone 10A since 2000

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Jason,

Unless the earth suddenly shifts 20 million miles closer to the sun, I would never worry about any of the Syagrus mentioned growing to 100' in Calif.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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Dick,

I see you have heard of my evil plan!   :D

That's what I figured.  I currently am trying S. coronata, and it is growing (albeit very slowly).  The big difference between the two is that, even at maturity, the S. coronata will have some protection from the worst of the elements.  The S. sancona would need to hang tough without much help.  I suspect that means I'd be removing a 30-ft. freeze-dried palm at some point..    :(

Jason

Menlo Park, CA  (U.S.A.) hillside

Min. temp Jan 2007:  28.1 deg. F (-2.2 deg. C)

Min. temp winter 2008: 34.7 deg. F (1.5 deg. C)

USDA Zone 10A since 2000

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Jason,

I started seriously thinking about the options if the Earth were suddenly 20 million miles closer to the sun. In the first place the only way that could happen is if some huge object from outer space collided with Earth, and that would wipe out all life on Earth. It would probably be thrown into an eliptical orbit so that it would be very close to the sun and very far away, and the summers would be sweltering and the winters very cold and the atmosphere, if any were left, would probably boil away. Also, there is the problem with the moon. If it were still around, it probably would be in an elipitical orbit and come so close to Earth that it would fill half the sky, and imagine the tides, if there were any water left, and the earthquakes.

To get back on subject, I think it's best you plant Queen palms since they don't look that much different from the exotic Syagrus and lets hope the earth stays where it is.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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I'm sorry about the above realignment of the planet....way off subject, but I probably had to much acai juice yesterday.

Dick

Richard Douglas

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