Highest Elevation In USA Where These Palms Grow?

[Jim West]

Does anyone here know the highest altitude in the continental USA where ALL these palm species can  be successfully grown outdoors? At the moment, I don't wish to name the town where I live, but it may hold the record. After I hear what others think (or know) I'll name my town and altitude to see where it places.

Thanks. Now, here's the list of palm species that can be grown in my town, many here for well over thirty years:

Washington fan palm

Mexican fan palm

Arabian date palm

Canary Island date palm

Texas sabal palm

Florida sabal palm

Pindo palm

Chinese Windmill palm

Mediterranean fan palm

[David N.TX.]

Lets see. How about Las Cruces, New Mexico?

[Steve in Brookings]

The highest city that I know of where those palms grow would be Sierra Vista, AZ at 4700 ft.  Perhaps some of the air-drained slopes on the east side of the Huachuca Mts. would provide suitable conditions at or above 5000 ft.  

Interestingly, I probably live at the northernmost place in the continental USA where all those palms could be grown...though for many, the growth would be very slow.

[Jim West]

(David N.TX. @ Jul. 17 2007,09:27)

QUOTE

Lets see. How about Las Cruces, New Mexico?

I've been through Las Cruces several times (I'm a native-born Texan) but most of the palm species I noticed there were washingtonia filiferas along with a few of the hardier species.

But...if their palm species are as varied as the place where I live, then that city indeed would claim the title of highest altitude over my town, though not by much.

El Paso, Texas would also be a contender, but, again, how well do these cities grow Mexican fan palms, for instance? They do very well here. (I'll have to provide a photo later)

Still, I will concede that Las Cruces may well be America's highest altitude city/town where palms grow outdoors year round.

Are they any other contenders for the title?

[Jim West]

(Steve in Brookings @ Jul. 17 2007,09:58)

QUOTE

The highest city that I know of where those palms grow would be Sierra Vista, AZ at 4700 ft.  

Sierra Vista, Arizona...at 4700 feet. Well, if so, my town never had a chance. I live in Yucca Valley, California, at 3500 feet. We have old-growth palms here but I'll concede that El Paso and Las Cruces and Sierra Vista top out higher in altitude for palms.

Then again, is there someplace even higher than Sierra Vista....?

[Eric in Orlando]

My sister lives in Sierra Vista, AZ and there are lots of palms there. Mainly Washingtonia filifera and W. robusta but also Chamaerops humilis, Butia capitata, Phoenix canariensis, Trachycarpus fortunei. I saw a couple small Brahea armata. I don't remember seeing any Phoenix dactylifera. Theres also palms down in Douglas and Bisbee. I think Bisbee is higher altitude.

[happ]

(Jim West @ Jul. 17 2007,14:03)

QUOTE

(Steve in Brookings @ Jul. 17 2007,09:58)

QUOTE

The highest city that I know of where those palms grow would be Sierra Vista, AZ at 4700 ft.  

Sierra Vista, Arizona...at 4700 feet. Well, if so, my town never had a chance. I live in Yucca Valley, California, at 3500 feet. We have old-growth palms here but I'll concede that El Paso and Las Cruces and Sierra Vista top out higher in altitude for palms.

Then again, is there someplace even higher than Sierra Vista....?

Jim

Julian CA is not as high as Sierra Vista at 4220 feet but has many if not all of the palms you list, I believe.  I wonder how far up Palm Canyon native washintonia grow.  Palm View Peak is 7160 feet in elevation.  Palms grow in the Tejon Pass at over 4100 feet.

[NBTX11]

I am pretty sure that all of the above can be grown succesfully in El Paso TX which is around 4055 feet elevation.  El Paso is so bone dry that palms tend to be able to take a little lower temps there, I think.

[Eric in Orlando]

There is a nice specimen of Jubaea chilensis in El Paso, TX. My sister lived in EP before they moved to Sierra Vista. Lots of palms in EP, also. I saw some young Washingtonia in Roswell, NM the last time I was there several years ago. There's Washingtonia in Alamogordo, NM too.

[Dave-Vero]

My first visit to Las Cruces was during the month of March.  Drove from Laramie, Wyoming.  Las Cruces had palms, but seemed colder than Laramie!

[Walt]

This post got me to thinking about varies species of palms growing at highest elevations in continental US.

It just occured to me that the Lake Wales Ridge (elevations up to around 350 feet above sea level) in pennisular Florida is the highest elevations in the continental USA/Florida where coconut palms, royal palms, Archontophoenix, Veitchia et al will grow, and probably one of the few zone 9 areas (as per USDA 2003 hardiness zone map) in the continental US where they can grow. I say this tongue in cheek (jokingly, about the elevation), but it is a fact, and one I just realized after reading this post thread.

Here in Highlands County, Florida, we are at the southern end of the Lake Wales Ridge, the only part of pennisular Florida that remained above water tens of thousands of years ago.

With the exception of the Lake Wales Ridge, talking about topographic elevation in Florida is almost an oxymoron.

Highlands County Florida Palms and Tropicals Webshots slideshow:

http://outdoors.webshots.com/slidesh....aT0Xzpr

[NBTX11]

There are actually quite a few "hills" in north central FL and the panhandle.

[Dave-Vero]

The Lake Wales Ridge has been above water since something like six million years--lots of time to become sort of a Florida island of biodiversity.  Perhaps the original home of Sabal etonia and the home of a long list of distinctive native plants, protected at places like Lake Wales Ridge State Forest.  Everyone in the area should have a pygmy fringe tree (Chionanthus pygmaeus).  

There's slightly higher ground west of Orlando (Mt Sugarloaf), north of Tampa (un-named hilltops).  Some of the Panhandle (a.k.a. southern Alabama) is really hilly.  The Apalachicola Bluffs with their hardwood forests and abundant needle palms (Rhapidophyllum) are spectacular.  Beautiful full page photo in Genera Palmarum.

[Walt]

(syersj @ Jul. 18 2007,11:12)

QUOTE

There are actually quite a few "hills" in north central FL and the panhandle.

This is true, but the premise of my posting is "highest elevations" in the continental US where coconuts, royals, et al tender palms, etc., are growing! I maintain the most are growing in Highlands County, Florida, the southern end of the LWR.

Some websites refer to Florida's hills as the Florida Alps! I guess everything is relative.

[Walt]

(Dave-Vero @ Jul. 18 2007,11:31)

QUOTE

The Lake Wales Ridge has been above water since something like six million years--lots of time to become sort of a Florida island of biodiversity.  Perhaps the original home of Sabal etonia and the home of a long list of distinctive native plants, protected at places like Lake Wales Ridge State Forest.  Everyone in the area should have a pygmy fringe tree (Chionanthus pygmaeus).  

There's slightly higher ground west of Orlando (Mt Sugarloaf), north of Tampa (un-named hilltops).  Some of the Panhandle (a.k.a. southern Alabama) is really hilly.  The Apalachicola Bluffs with their hardwood forests and abundant needle palms (Rhapidophyllum) are spectacular.  Beautiful full page photo in Genera Palmarum.

Sabal etonia abound on my property, but to a lesser extent than Serenoa repens.

Here's a Webshots photo album of the Florida Alps.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/122102149FDaWRR

[merrill]

for Ed Brown and Richard Travis: I'm wondering what the maximum altitude for Sabal pumos and Sabal roseii is in Mexico.  I imagine that their native range is at higher elevation than any native palms range in the U. S.  [Let alone Ceroxylon and it's  smaller relatives at even higher elevations in S. A.!] merrill

[alex_7b]

If you're going to ask south of the border, let's go to Bolivia and check for Parajubaea in La Paz.

[DesertZone]

Bisbee, AZ

elevation 5300'

I even seen a small dacty growing in an alley way.

filiferas 80years old (from what the owner said)

[Jim in Los Altos]

This post got me to thinking about varies species of palms growing at highest elevations in continental US.

It just occured to me that the Lake Wales Ridge (elevations up to around 350 feet above sea level) in pennisular Florida is the highest elevations in the continental USA/Florida where coconut palms, royal palms, Archontophoenix, Veitchia et al will grow, and probably one of the few zone 9 areas (as per USDA 2003 hardiness zone map) in the continental US where they can grow. I say this tongue in cheek (jokingly, about the elevation), but it is a fact, and one I just realized after reading this post thread.

Here in Highlands County, Florida, we are at the southern end of the Lake Wales Ridge, the only part of pennisular Florida that remained above water tens of thousands of years ago.

With the exception of the Lake Wales Ridge, talking about topographic elevation in Florida is almost an oxymoron.

Highlands County Florida Palms and Tropicals Webshots slideshow:

http://outdoors.webshots.com/slidesh....aT0Xzpr

Actually there are several much higher than 350' elevations in Southern and Central CA where many of those tender species you mentioned will grow. My business partner in Scotts Valley, CA, elevation 1,440 ft. has a garden full of Archontophoenix, a royal, and lots of the more tender Chamaedorea species as well as many tropical companion plants. She hasn't seen frost there in many years. Go down to sea level and it's A LOT colder in the valley.

[MattyB]

Isn't topanga at about 2000 feet? I know leland lives up there

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

If anyone wanted to try, I'd Say Mt Palomar in San Diego area would be the highest elevation at almost 6,000 ft above sea level with a mild enough climate to grow most of the low land palms listed for usda zone 8/9, As long as they could handle some snow!

The climate stats almost mirror central ca inland valleys,

Mild winters- above freezing average lows. But nowhere near zero as an absolute low.

Warm mild summers.

Heres the stats, Whadda think?

Jeff

Edited April 30, 2011 by Jeff in Modesto

[DesertZone]

I agree, I think some place in California would be the best.

[palmsOrl]

From the photo, Bisbee looks surprisingly lush. According to wiki, the all-time record low for the city is -7 F so I bet those Wahies have struggled, though they look to be in good health.

-Michael

[DesertZone]

From the photo, Bisbee looks surprisingly lush. According to wiki, the all-time record low for the city is -7 F so I bet those Wahies have struggled, though they look to be in good health.

-Michael

The pics are from 2009, but looked the same when I was down in 2010. I have been looking all over the net for recent pics after the 2/2011 big freeze. I have found pics of other palms from the area and some (filiferas) are showing new growth. If anyone has pic of these two filiferas I would love to see how they look now.

Here's a pic of an agave from there just for fun.

[tfinvold]

I was in Bisbee last year in 2016 and the washie filferas looked fine and healthy. Also there are about 8 different known big filferas growing in Bisbee it's an 8a zone supposedly to my knowledge and I did see a few younger ones scattered around. Rumors had it there was some date palm another user mentioned but I never found it maybe it was toast. Areas nearby like Sierra Vista, Douglas all experienced single digits or near 0 F temps. Most trees that were supposed to be evergreen defoliated in the 0 F weather. Normally the Emory oaks in the area near Bisbee are evergreen down to single digits to my knowledge but during the snap in 2011 any broadleaf tree or palm leaves were completely burnt off. Only the junipers and pines came out with no frost damage (they're evergreens what'd you expect?)

 Even the native oaks were completely leaf bare because of the intense freeze which also hit Las Cruces, NM  Tucson and El Paso were pretty hard hit and had tons of CIDPs as well as dactilyferas even some Phoenix sylvestris and the updated street view seemed to show they all came back and many were fruiting that very same year. (really just about the entire southwest felt this severe snap with the exception of the Pacific coast or the very low desert like Phoenix and Yuma, they didn't seem to see anything out of the normal)

High elevation palm tree growing is a challenge that is going to have some SERIOUS temp swings. Could be 50 one day then could be the low teens or single digits the next night, but where I would actually say the highest area I've seen palms is east Albuquerque on a well air drained slope right on the east end of town probably approaching 5,700-6,000ft most people in that area had planted ponderosa pines and lo and behold there were some trachys holding onto dear life popping out above a fenced backyard. They actually looked quite green despite it only being early April and I don't think any new growth had yet popped up. I wish I had grabbed a picture but I was cruising through the area and the owner's windows were open so I didn't want to bug them to snap a photo. I might be able to get a street-view on it.

One place I don't see a lot of palms is Sedona, Arizona which is upwards of 4,500ft in elevation. It's clearly in 8b (some higher parts of town borderline 8a) I'm not sure if they are discouraged due to the natural red rock setting or what but I see only a couple of filferas (one washington robusta which is right on highway 89 and in the last 5 years has rocketed in height and has dispersed seedlings near its base in front of a car wash) and there are a few trachys here and there but honestly I've seen maybe a couple of palm trees out of thousands of residences but I have not seen any type of phoenix date palms in the area to my knowledge there is not a single phoenix palm in the entire verde valley with a population over 30,000 and nights rarely on a normal year ever get below about 18F and that's usually 1 night a year if that. Some years have only dipped into the low or mid 20's. The coldest on record is 0F in Sedona back in 1962 for a very brief period then it shows that it got to 40 the next day. Based on that it seems theoretical to grow Phoenix palms like what is seen in Sierra Vista down a few hours south of there. It really depends on the micro climate for sure. generally sheltered by canyons and mountains in every direction and I would imagine it doesn't see the kind of snaps down into the negative digits that further east out in Texas/ New Mexico sees. I've taken an interest in living in Sedona despite the high prices and if I did make it out that way I would have to do some serious palm experimenting :)

[tfinvold]

On 4/30/2011, 12:50:39, JEFF IN MODESTO said:

If anyone wanted to try, I'd Say Mt Palomar in San Diego area would be the highest elevation at almost 6,000 ft above sea level with a mild enough climate to grow most of the low land palms listed for usda zone 8/9, As long as they could handle some snow!

 

The climate stats almost mirror central ca inland valleys,

Mild winters- above freezing average lows. But nowhere near zero as an absolute low.

 

Warm mild summers.

 

 

Heres the stats, Whadda think?

 

 

Jeff

 

I would bet with those daytime highs barely into the 50's and those wet soggy winters with rain/snow/sleet mix similar to an Oregon climate would stunt a lot of them. Most people in Oregon haven't had very good luck with any Phoenix or washie varieties other than those who live right on the coastline which is more like 9a. I wonder if anyone who has a cabin up there on Palomar ever tried experimenting with a few. Something to check out on google streetview.

[tfinvold]

On 7/17/2007, 9:59:09, Jim West said:

 

(David N.TX. @ Jul. 17 2007,09:27)

QUOTE

Lets see. How about Las Cruces, New Mexico?

I've been through Las Cruces several times (I'm a native-born Texan) but most of the palm species I noticed there were washingtonia filiferas along with a few of the hardier species.

 

But...if their palm species are as varied as the place where I live, then that city indeed would claim the title of highest altitude over my town, though not by much.

 

El Paso, Texas would also be a contender, but, again, how well do these cities grow Mexican fan palms, for instance? They do very well here. (I'll have to provide a photo later)

 

Still, I will concede that Las Cruces may well be America's highest altitude city/town where palms grow outdoors year round.

 

Are they any other contenders for the title?

When I lived in Sierra Vista I did notice the CIDPs and washingtonia robusta thrive in Sierra Vista / Hereford with moderate summers (less than one week above 100 F) and usually less than 1 week below freezing and with relatively mild winters its a good place to plant some cold hardy palms (elevation topping out over 5,000ft in Hereford and Bisbee) and many of the big CIDPs and robustas were planted in the 1960's during a period of the town's rapid growth and some are approaching "sky duster" status like in excess of 40-60ft which is a testament to their longevity and I didn't see any mortality of the big ones from 2011 freeze. So they seem to do really well in Southern Arizona as the area is sheltered by mountains in almost every direction. As you head east toward New Mexico or west Texas they tend to get some really bad cold snaps every 20 years or so down in the negatives sometimes like the 2011 freeze so the mexican (robusta) fan palms don't really make it long term out there. To this day there are tons of "stubs" or remains of many washingtonia robusta that died during the freeze down in El Paso that didn't get removed by the owners. That extra 5 degrees colder than Sierra Vista makes all the difference. Just an observation.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

From the looks of that climate data Trachycarpus wouldn't have an issue at the palomar observatory.

[PalmTreeDude]

Oh yeah, and Trachys are native to mountains! I wish the 35 degree latitude mark was the tropic of cancer, then just think of the US 

[tfinvold]

The highest palm tree in the continental United States that is not a trachycarpus genus or Rhapidophyllum hystrix is a Washingtonia Filfera growing at nearly 6,000ft elevation near Silver City, New Mexico in Fort Bayard next to a sheltered site near a building on the border of zone 8a/7b. This is probably the highest elevation Washingtonia Filfera that I know of. From streetview it appears to be mature at least several decades old.

The new interactive hardiness map which shows Silver City lies within 8a growing zone despite being nearly 6,000ft in elevation:
(you can enter the zip code 88061 to find Silver City)

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/phzmweb/interactivemap.aspx

Streetview of Washingtonia Filferas in Fort Bayard, New Mexico:

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7932939,-108.1512382,3a,76.6y,305.07h,89.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYs-cC2Icg40L0bdmb-SdHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en&authuser=0

[pin38]

Truth or Consequences NM is several hundred feet higher than Las Cruces and El Paso, at 4,225 ft. In addition to the large filifera and various filibustas around town, there's a medium-large Phoenix hybrid (dactylifera or sylvestris, not entirely sure) there. It's got to have one of the lowest January nighttime daily average low temps for that type of palm at 27 degrees F.

Edited September 14, 2018 by pin38

[Desert DAC]

On 4/30/2011, 2:46:08, palmsOrl said:

From the photo, Bisbee looks surprisingly lush. According to wiki, the all-time record low for the city is -7 F so I bet those Wahies have struggled, though they look to be in good health.

-Michael

I just looked at 3 weather stations in Bisbee using https://wrcc.dri.edu/summary/Climsmaz.html

The lowest all-time low temperature I read from all 3 stations is +2F (Feb 2011), not -7F. That's mild compared to -10F to -5F here in Las Cruces! Though those summaries at best contain 70% of temperature data and could have missed some critical days.

[T Toya]

I have seen Washingtonia and Windmill palms in Albuquerque, NM, a lot at the Biological Park. Elevation would range from 4,900 ft (Bio Park) to 5,100 ft in the neighborhoods on Albuquerque's west side and surrounding neighborhoods around UNM.

[Jadd Correia]

Not as high as everyone is mentioning, but impressive. Elevation 2000' Placerville, CA