Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Exotic gardening at 51N


UK_Palms

Recommended Posts

Okay, so I have been a palm enthusiast and exotic gardener for about 4 years now. Most of my palms are still quite young/small, as I am only 26 years old, therefore it's not like I have been growing palms for 20 years or anything. I have only been doing it for a few years. 

At 51N, in the southeast of England, the climate can be a bit of a challenge for me. Summers are generally pretty warm here, but winters can get cold as I am inland, away from the coast. Growing my favourite palm types, such as Phoenix & Washingtonia, can be a bit of a challenge here. Fortunately this winter has been pretty mild for us. Last night the low was 10C (50F) and today we reached a high of 55F (13C). Considering we are in the middle of winter, at lat 51N, that is pretty good weather. We haven't actually had a frost yet, in 2019. But on average, I can generally expect a frost on 1 in 8 winter nights, and I average around 30 frosts a year in total.

The reason for a lot of my palms being containerised is that I am planning to move house in the not too distant future, and I want to be able to take most of them with me. I don't want to go to the effort of planting them in the ground, then having to dig them back up again. Or having to leave them behind altogether. Hence all the pots. I'm sure people will understand. 

All the photos below were taken on 13/01/2019...

Sabal Palmetto

large.FGWX3110.jpg.5ac0b832de17cf8f37682

Trachycarpus Princeps Hybrid

large.5c3b687af07a6_TrachycarpusPrinceps

Phoenix Theophrasti

large.IMG_0018.jpg.2307150000fcb00521add

large.5c30d23abc9b5_Theo2.jpg.c1d2b99d6a

Trachycarpus Fortunei

large.5c3b681440b2f_TrachycarpusFortunei

Trachycarpus Wagnerianus

large.5c3b68b4a922e_TrachycarpusWagneria

Cordyline 'Starburst'

large.5c3b655819436_CordylineStarburst.j

Cordyline 'Pink Passion'

large.5c3b64929716b_CordylinePinkPassion

Left Border

large.5c3b97d9b7c29_Leftborder.jpg.d7ba0

Right border

large.5c3b669916137_Rightborder.jpg.e338

Another Fortunei - some don't handle the wind well at all, and have less robust fronds...

large.IMG_0006.jpg.87b09527f3d50bdb84fdf

Trachycarpus Nova

large.IMG_9990.jpg.97f4ad7d8196359c46553

Trachycarpus Takaggi & Chamaerops Vulcano

large.5c3bb32e6a632_TagakkiVulcano.jpg.2

Chamaerops Humilis

large.Humilis.jpg.40506e2029c3e23660de67

large.IMG_0033.jpg.439e1586012646f5c66f6

large.5c3bb26427cf1_Humilis2.jpg.16eb166

Washingtonia Robusta

large.Robusta.jpg.a894248c761fb57fc957ca

Cordyline 'Red Star'

large.5c3b9709e86ab_CordylineRedStar.jpg

Cordyline Australis, Butia Eriospatha & Jubaea Chilensis

large.5c3b97fa785f2_Palms1.jpg.40ab739e1

large.5c3b982678894_Palms2.jpg.06da8cd6d

Jubaea Chilensis

large.5c3bb2db4644c_Jubaea2.jpg.869c7beclarge.5c3bb28e41ca1_Jubaea1.jpg.fe14ddda

Butia Odorata

large.5c3b90b8cd9f3_Butia3.jpg.5cd139704

Phoenix Canariensis - grown from seed and very hardy. It doesn't show any damage at -5C and has survived -8C in a pot, with minimal frond burn. 

large.Canarensis.jpg.bc5ce37fd7c53c4b7c8

Washingtonia Filibusta & Filifera seedlings (6-9 months old)

large.5c3b65e0e824a_Filibustaseedlings.j

Washingtonia Robusta seedlings (2 months old)

large.5c3b6647ef156_Filiferaseedlings.jp

Assorted Cacti planter - this stays outdoors all winter, but is protected from rain and excess moisture by overhead shelter, as they MUST be kept dry in winter. 

large.5c3b642074c01_Cactiplanter.jpg.c6b

Opuntia Microdaysis (bunny ears cactus) - also remains outdoors year round and can take -5C no problem. 

large.5c3b63d985145_CactiOpuntia.jpg.3e9

Citrus Calamondin I bring my citrus indoors if an overnight frost is forecast, to keep it actively growing and fruiting. It hasn't come indoors yet in 2019, and is now flowering again due to the mild, spring like temperatures.

large.5c3b64516f739_CitrusCalamondin.jpg

Serrano Pepper - I also bring the peppers indoors on nights that frost is forecast, to keep them producing. This one has actually taken a few light frosts, to no ill effect. 

large.5c3b679a6712c_SerranoPepper.jpg.cb

Lovely sunset tonight...

large.Sunset.jpg.2ed1e882e6a5a11c6049b1f

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 19

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great collection, is that how Sabal's grow that far north? It just looks different then what I'm used to. but know palms can look different in different climates. How's the growth rate on the T. Nova? Been thinking of adding that one you my collection. 

 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beautiful selection of cold hardy palms! I agree with Ben: 1st selection is not a Sabal.

  • Upvote 1

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RJ said:

Great collection, is that how Sabal's grow that far north? It just looks different then what I'm used to. but know palms can look different in different climates. How's the growth rate on the T. Nova? Been thinking of adding that one you my collection. 

 

If you didn't think it was a Sabal, what would you personally say it is? Chamaerops Humilis? 

I rescued this from a garage sale about 5 years ago. It was going very cheap and had no label, and it was my first palm. As it has aged, I couldn't be sure whether it was a Chamaerops or Sabal? I used to think it was Chamaerops, but then changed my opinion to Sabal. Any ideas? 

The Nova is pretty quick growing and trunks very quickly. Only the Washingtonia's are faster growing than the Nova in my yard. 

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

The first picture is not a Sabal.  Chamaerops? 

Yeah, I'm thinking it may be a Chamaerops, as that is what I initially thought it was a few years back after I brought it from a garage sale. But I have quite a few Chamaerops now and this particular palm grows 3-4 x as fast as my next fastest growing Chamaerops and looks quite different. So it has confused me for a while. 

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/14/2019 at 8:11 AM, UK_Palms said:

Yeah, I'm thinking it may be a Chamaerops, as that is what I initially thought it was a few years back after I brought it from a garage sale. But I have quite a few Chamaerops now and this particular palm grows 3-4 x as fast as my next fastest growing Chamaerops and looks quite different. So it has confused me for a while. 

That palm is Chamaerops. It is definitely not Sabal.

Chamaerops is very variable palm species, with many different forms.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UK_Palms! Nice garden you have there!

See my PM for some free seeds . . . .

That first palm is a Chamaerops for sure: (a) petioles are spiny while Sabals are not; (b) blossoms are close to the trunk. Sabals are on long stems.

  • Like 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is what Sabal palmettos looks like. What you have in your first picture is some form of Chamaerops (it looks really cool though). 

20180823_174030.jpg

  • Upvote 3

PalmTreeDude

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just got a question regarding my 9 month old Washingtonia Filibusta seedlings... 

So a few of them are growing with a slight curve in them. Like the trunk is almost shaped like a banana where it has curved at the bottom and top. It doesn't look too bad in the pictures I have attached, but up close in person, the curve does look quite obvious and somewhat unappealing. I'm just wondering what the general consensus is on why this is happening?

It's only happening to 2 or 3 specimens, out of a batch of 8. So not all are affected by this. I have heard that this curve is potentially due to them sitting in wet soil, with wet roots. I find that hard to believe though, since some of my other Filibusta seedlings have been sitting in even wetter soil than these two, yet those particular ones are growing straight still, with no curves.

I also wonder if it could be down to the lack of sunlight at this time of year. As the sun has dropped so low, behind the trees and houses, my back yard is now only getting 1-2 hours of direct sunlight each day right now. Come June, the same spot will get 12 hours direct though as the sun will be high up in the sky. So it's only a temporary problem. It's also worth mentioning that I have brought them indoors a few times during real cold snaps, so they have spent some on the windowsill with filtered light. I wonder if this has led to them growing at an angle?

Or maybe some specimens just grow like that regardless, when young? I don't know though, which is why I am asking. Hopefully someone knows why and can offer some advice on this issue. Also, does anyone know if the palms in question will grow out of this in the future, and straighten themselves? Or will they always retain a curve in them now?

Cheers 

large.IMG_0167.jpg.1802642a3513fe675771fe5c98b9bd9a.jpg

large.IMG_0169.jpg.be059b83488490413fb121fe12c29976.jpg

 

  • Upvote 1

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Can I get some opinions on this Washingtonia that I have...

It was purchased as a Robusta from a reputable dealer, but the more I look at it, and the older it gets, the more I am seeing Filifera traits in it. Like it has the trunk of a Robusta in my opinion, as well as the thorn spacing/coverage of a typical Robusta. But the petioles and fibres look more Filifera to me now. It has also been outdoors all winter and survived lows of 21F, with practically zero damage, which is what initially caused me to question it. I know Robusta's usually burn at around 24F. 

I can't work out whether it is still pure Robusta (which it was sold to me as), or whether it is in fact a hybrid Filibusta. Or even a pure Filifera as someone has mentioned to me. I still think it is more Robusta looking than anything, but I'm sure there is some Filifera blood in there too. I don't think it is a pure Filifera, but since someone has mentioned that it might be, I am now sceptical of what it really is.

It's a bit frustrating if I have purchased a hybrid, or a pure Filifera, as it came from a reputable dealer, and I was specifically after a pure Robusta. I already have a bunch of smaller hybrids and pure Filifera, so I am hoping this is a Robusta still, but I can't tell. What are your thoughts? 

Cheers

IMG_0406.jpg

IMG_0407.jpg

IMG_0408-min.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may be a hybrid, but certainly lots of robusta in that.   Maybe a bit of filifera.  Who knows what a pure robusta is anyway - these are so promiscuous.  My guess is you won't be able to tell this apart from a "pure" robusta, even if it has got a bit of hybrid in it.

  • Like 1

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

It may be a hybrid, but certainly lots of robusta in that.   Maybe a bit of filifera.  Who knows what a pure robusta is anyway - these are so promiscuous.  My guess is you won't be able to tell this apart from a "pure" robusta, even if it has got a bit of hybrid in it.

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah I thought it was mostly Robusta looking, but there are a few traits that have caused me to question it. The biggest being that it survived 13F and snow back in February 2018, which completely burnt the fronds to a crisp, but it grew back a full crown by mid summer. So it is both pretty hardy and pretty rapid still, averaging 1 new frond a month, even in winter. I know that kind of speed of growth is a Robusta trait. It has also experienced 21F this winter just gone, which barely even fazed it. Any damage visible right now is the result of wind.

I think I'm right in saying that pure Robusta's shouldn't be that hardy and would outright die at 20F, certainly at that size? Or are they hardier than people realise? Assuming it could be a pure Robusta...

  • Upvote 1

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spent some time this afternoon potting things up in the garden...

The Opuntia Microdaysis Rufida, AKA 'La Villa', has been potted up into a bigger (clay) pot, where it will probably spend the rest of its days now. 

large.IMG_0439.jpg.f79c67e4d160699aa1d3c8a6f51a3e34.jpglarge.IMG_0436.jpg.92ddd992b9630a1cc63058e02464209b.jpg

large.IMG_0448.jpg.6ad645149d29165b3b3216ca0947ecda.jpg

The Butia Odorata has also been potted up as well, into a much bigger pot. Hopefully this bigger pot will help sort out it's deficiencies. 

large.IMG_0442.jpg.c159ea9d9588992895b131a77d1a3737.jpg

I have also potted up a Cordyline 'Red Star'...

large.IMG_0444.jpg.7b98ec8bf3fef292d7a46b18e94e5921.jpg

And one of my many Trachycarpus Fortunei's...

large.IMG_0446_(1).jpg.3ed686e291f2500b42ea26945055ec75.jpg

large.IMG_0447_(1).jpg.7ca3d1e2f885cfc2ae5dacc3e3791be4.jpg

I need to pot up the Jubaea Chilensis as well, but I ran out of sand and compost, so was unable to do it today. 

I also have some Phoenix seedlings coming along, which are about 6 weeks old...

These ones are pure Phoenix Theophrasti var. Epidauros, sourced from a unique, overly-hardy population on mainland Greece.

large.IMG_0432.jpg.0ab28fed90d78c3edf96d5e6027e2a67.jpg

And these ones are a hybrid from of Phoenix Theophrasti var. Epidauros x CIDP... 

large.IMG_0431.jpg.f087b571563fb52f008b80a42e480430.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your plants are really spectacular - thank you very much for posting!

Just one question - how old is this one...

large.5c3bb2db4644c_Jubaea2.jpg.869c7bec

...your Jubea? 

I have got to tiny ones in the ground and they are already four years old. Comparing to my ones your's must be at least 15 years old ore more ;)

Best regards from Okinawa -

Lars

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, palmfriend said:

Your plants are really spectacular - thank you very much for posting!

Just one question - how old is this one...

...your Jubea? 

I have got to tiny ones in the ground and they are already four years old. Comparing to my ones your's must be at least 15 years old ore more ;)

Best regards from Okinawa -

Lars

 

Hi Lars, I am unsure exactly how old it is. I purchased it around 18 months ago when it was already a similar size to what it is now. But I agree, my Jubaea must be at least 10-15 years old. My guess would be somewhere around 12 years old now.

Although it was probably grown overseas in Spain for most of its life, in dry/warm/sunny conditions, which help them grow quicker. Before being shipped to the UK for sale. So it could only be 10 years old, if that was the case. But then again it could be close to 20 years old, especially if it was seed grown in the UK. But I doubt that. In truth, I have no idea how old it is to be honest. It depends how long it spent growing in a Mediterranean climate prior to being shipped to the UK.

Like I said, I would estimate around 12 years old. But can't say for sure, due to the variables. They are certainly slow growing though, as you know. 

Anyway, how does Jubaea do in your climate? Does it grow well, or have any issues with excess rainfall and humidity? I know Okinawa gets around 80 inches of rain a year, which is a lot of rainfall for a Jubaea to handle, as Jubaea are native to Chile in an area that lies in the rainshadow of the Andes. Which probably only gets around 5 inches of rain a year, in their native range. Jubaea don't do too bad in my climate though, as I only get around 20 inches of rain here and the rain is very, very light. The high humidity doesn't seem to be an issue here either for it.

What are your experiences with Jubaea in your climate?

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Ben,

I just checked my Jubeas in the garden, I have got two planted and three still potted ones.

I ordered the seeds five years ago, it took a bit more than a year for them to sprout, I lost three quite soon,

gave one away. The three potted plants are hanging in, the one I have planted out two years ago is slow 

like a glacier but grows, my most promising one was almost forgotten while hidden among other pots and plants and

has already started to go pinnate - so I planted it out last fall. During spring we have some insects eating leaves here 

and there - my Jubea was "chosen" as well <_< - but it is strong and pushing significantly a new leaf.

0001.thumb.jpg.e5e73772dbc68b174691e9b75b989037.jpg

and...

0002.thumb.jpg.e0af2112c142fe049333986b3e84043c.jpg

(I am sorry for the low quality, I just made two quick photos with the phone.)

It is solid as a rock in the ground, I am going to spray it with some insecticide today - there shouldn't be any problems.

This Jubea's closest neighbors are two Veitchia Joannis, two Howeas Forsteriana, Cocos nucifera and a 

Clinostigma Samoense - ecxept the Clinostigma, all of them already trunking...

I mentioned this to get an imagination about our climate which seems to be not the best for Jubeas. Alberto 

mentioned, that it is quite unusual to grow Jubeas side by side with C. nucifera. After getting aware of this

I can only imagine that our climate might be close to that of the Easter Islands where both, Jubea and C. nucifera

can be grown... That is the only explanation I have. We have got plenty of rain sometimes, otherwise two 

or three weeks or more without any as well, very long and humid summers, short and dryer winters.  (I am usually 

saying, we have tropical summers and subtropical winters...) 

Since I am growing a lot of different palms from imported seeds (the number of sold palms over here is very limited), I am trying 

to establish a kind of overview of our climate regarding what can be grown or not. I have to do an update about my palms I am 

growing now, the most of them are still potted, during the next weeks and I am going to put here on pt. 

Al right, I hope this reply will be ok for the moment -

best regards

Lars

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...