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Turtlesteve

Sabal causarium or something else?

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Turtlesteve

Made an interesting observation this week.  I have three supposed Sabal causarium planted out right now...two from one source (2nd year in the ground), and a small one (about 3 gallon) planted early this spring that I got from someone else.

We've hit about 25-26F a few times so far this winter, and the small one is 100% burned already (what a wimp!).  The other two show no damage, and took low teens last winter with light damage (this is consistent with the species when mature, so I am told).  So the 3rd palm is obviously different from the first two.  I suspect it will survive the winter since the growth point is well underground.

So - any guesses?

- The small palm is incorrectly identified and is actually a more cold tender species (but what)?

- The small palm is correct, but the larger two aren't (maybe causarium x palmetto)?

- They're all causarium, but the species varies greatly in cold hardiness?

Attempting to identify them from photos at this size would be a futile effort.

Steve

 

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RJ

No one has chimed in, so I'll take a stab. Perhaps your lone tender palm is a  Sabal domingensis ? I have a few Causarium that are strap leafs but haven't seen anything sub 32. 

Causarium grows in Augusta just down the road from you and I so it logical to guess that they should do just fine at those temps, especially after last winter. 

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Zeeth
4 hours ago, RJ said:

No one has chimed in, so I'll take a stab. Perhaps your lone tender palm is a  Sabal domingensis ? I have a few Causarium that are strap leafs but haven't seen anything sub 32. 

Causarium grows in Augusta just down the road from you and I so it logical to guess that they should do just fine at those temps, especially after last winter. 

Yeah, that was my first thought as well. All of the reports I've read have said that S. domingensis is much more tender than S. causiarum. 

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Steve in Florida

Sabal causiarum is much more cold and frost hardy than Sabal domingensis.    My two five gallon Sabal domingensis fried to the ground for two consecutive winters once it reached 25F with heavy frost.  My Sabal causiarum has been fine to 19F, even when covered with .50 inches of freezing rain.  The initial division of leaflets is different between the two.  You should post a photo of the tender one when it was healthy.     

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RJ
10 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

Sabal causiarum is much more cold and frost hardy than Sabal domingensis.    My two five gallon Sabal domingensis fried to the ground for two consecutive winters once it reached 25F with heavy frost.  My Sabal causiarum has been fine to 19F, even when covered with .50 inches of freezing rain.  The initial division of leaflets is different between the two.  You should post a photo of the tender one when it was healthy.     

At what size does causuarum begin to exhibit ligules?

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Zeeth
23 minutes ago, RJ said:

At what size does causuarum begin to exhibit ligules?

Usually around the time that they start trunking, but maybe a smidge before. Fruit size and shape is a better way to determine S. causiarum vs. S. domingensis though. 

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RJ
25 minutes ago, Zeeth said:

Usually around the time that they start trunking, but maybe a smidge before. Fruit size and shape is a better way to determine S. causiarum vs. S. domingensis though. 

Thanks Zeeth, planning on picking up some 15g's this week while in FL. I want to make sure I get the real deal and not a S. domingensis. any other way to tell while smallish. 

I know Sabal's are a hard one to pin down and my eye isn't that well trained. 

 

 

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Zeeth
15 minutes ago, RJ said:

Thanks Zeeth, planning on picking up some 15g's this week while in FL. I want to make sure I get the real deal and not a S. domingensis. any other way to tell while smallish. 

I know Sabal's are a hard one to pin down and my eye isn't that well trained. 

The leaves on S. domingensis aren't split as deeply when young, almost like they're halfway to Sabal lisa.

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Turtlesteve

Thanks for all the input guys.  Hopefully it will pull through and I can confirm the ID as it gets larger.  The bud is below ground and looks OK.

Unfortunately I don't have any photos of it healthy.  It was planted from a 2 gallon last spring, and leaves were about 18" long and deeply split (bifid).  The other two looked the same at that size but grew into full leaves quickly.  This one was definitely the slowest of the three.

Steve

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RJ
1 minute ago, Zeeth said:

The leaves on S. domingensis aren't split as deeply when young, almost like they're halfway to Sabal lisa.

Thanks for the heads up. We will be in the Jensen Beach area for a week visiting family. Hoping to come back with a few after Christmas. 

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RJ

Keith, from Plantant.com

I looked on PalmPedia and looked through pics of both species and they seemed almost interchangeable :unsure:

S. Causiarum.jpg

 

Steve sorry to jack your thread! 

Edited by RJ

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Mightycanes

Here’s my question, where did you get them?  The good ones that is.  I been after these myself.  I’ve got some mules and robustas outside of Augusta so far this season seem fine.

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Turtlesteve

The two "good" ones were from a gentleman (I forget his name) in Aiken who brings palms up from FL and sells them on craigslist.  He only advertises common stuff but happened to have them (not mentioned in any of his ads).  Unfortunately he didn't have more available last I checked, nor anything else uncommon that he was willing to part with.  It's probably OK to buy them small (e.g. mail order) as it seems like they can be planted early and grow fast in the ground.

Steve

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Dominguensis is a wimp compared to causarium. They burn bad for us at 23f and frost. Causarium are just a little more leaf hardy than a w. Robusta.

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