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First Arctic blast


NC_Palms

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I grew up in Winston Salem next door to Greensboro NC.

I never thought I’d live in sight of palm trees and orchids outside.

I am spoiled by the weather in the mountains of PR, but yes there are some nice temperate trees I dare not try. 

Sorry about the cold front-bundle up!

 

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Cindy Adair

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14 hours ago, NC_Palms said:

We're at 36º now in the eastern part of the state but we'll reach 30º in the early morning hours.

Lowest I recorded was 36.5 this morning. 

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17 hours ago, Estlander said:

When I said it stays green here throughout the winter I actually meant the native vegetation and not all the evergreen stuff people have been planting. In fact, apart from palm trees, the stuff people are planting seems to be deciduous. :(

But yes, close to the beach, within the bleach white sand zone and salt spray, the vegetation is of the scrub community. Across Hwy. 98 from the beach, it’s long leaf pine forest with all kinds of evergreen brush and Magnolias mixed in. And at the northern end of the barrier islands, closer to the Bayou, it's mostly ancient tall Oak trees with a lot of Sabal minor and also some kind of evergreen brush mixed in.  I’m very bad at tree names, so I can’t give you any of those, I'm afraid. It's as if there are three very different types of forests here. It's kinda cool.

I don't think the soil on the northern half of of the barrier islands is any worse than the soil in, say, Niceville. The soil in the pine forest, where I am, is light to dark grey with a rich organic peaty top layer. Closer to the Bayou where all the ancient Oaks trees and Sabal minor are, the soil is rich dark muck.

Here are pics I recently took in Santa Rosa Beach that shows what it looks like near the Bayou.

Well yes- they do plant some things like red maples and bald cypress here and there but overall it is a much more prevalent "tropical" landscaping than if you go over the bridge to the mainland. One big difference that strikes me when I drive out to the coast in the winter is the winter rye and St. Augustine grass I notice that is used more to keep everything green in the winter. Our house and many other people in Niceville have centipede grass that turns as brown as ever after a couple frosts.

But besides the landscaping, the native vegetation that gets the more deciduous look in winter doesn't really occur until you get to about Crestview and north- that's where the sweet gum, tulip poplar, red oak, start showing up more. I believe it's more clay in the soil that is associated with those northern hardwoods and loblolly pine. So besides those farther northern reaches of the county, still much of the area is evergreen in winter- even if it isn't from "tropical looking" landscaping.

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1 hour ago, Opal92 said:

One big difference that strikes me when I drive out to the coast in the winter is the winter rye and St. Augustine grass I notice that is used more to keep everything green in the winter. Our house and many other people in Niceville have centipede grass that turns as brown as ever after a couple frosts.

But besides the landscaping, the native vegetation that gets the more deciduous look in winter doesn't really occur until you get to about Crestview and north

True. Don't know what grass it is, but also along highways the grass stays green, not just the grass in peoples yards.

And yes, drive along I-10 in the winter and it looks like almost anything that isn't a Pine of some kind has no leaves.

Took these pics today. This is how it looks around my neighborhood. A very typical Florida Pine woodland with nothing deciduous growing in it. Looks just like it all year around. Areas closer to the Bay have Oaks with Spanish moss and Sabal minor.

Photo Nov 11, 1 51 31 PM.jpg

Photo Nov 11, 1 51 44 PM.jpg

Photo Nov 11, 1 52 08 PM.jpg

Edited by Estlander
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2 hours ago, Estlander said:

True. Don't know what grass it is, but also along highways the grass stays green, not just the grass in peoples yards.

And yes, drive along I-10 in the winter and it looks like almost anything that isn't a Pine of some kind has no leaves.

Took these pics today. This is how it looks around my neighborhood. A very typical Florida Pine woodland with nothing deciduous growing in it. Looks just like it all year around. Areas closer to the Bay have Oaks with Spanish moss and Sabal minor.

Photo Nov 11, 1 51 31 PM.jpg

Photo Nov 11, 1 51 44 PM.jpg

Photo Nov 11, 1 52 08 PM.jpg

Nice photos! Pine flatwoods have always interested me. I just got back exploring longleaf pine flatwoods in the Craven County area.

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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The native vegetation may look deciduous in North Florida and other Southeastern states, but remember that the entire coastal plain up to Virginia used to be fire dependent flatwoods. Fires would occur around every five years so this limited the growth of deciduous trees in flatwoods. Deciduous trees never were the main forest cover and even where deciduous trees flourished, it was still predominately mixed with loblolly pine, white cedar, and bald cypress (a deciduous conifer). Due to fire suppression and deforestation, these ecosystems are rare with I think only less than 6% of flatwoods existing. IMO the deciduous forest that is seen in the coastal plain of the southeast is just the coniferous forest in a disturbance.

With the discussion of climate, I have no idea if the southeastern coniferous forest is an extension of the temperate North American forest or a separate subtropical system that makes way to a tropical system in South Florida. 

https://timberridge.typepad.com/files/longleaf-initiative-overview_8x11_v2-1.pdf

PIne.JPG.96437ba1b73adc05f7dbcdd8531f54b

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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Forecast changed and lows now down to high 40's for the Orlando metro area and mid 40's in the outskirts for Thur-Fri.

For you folks who have lived in this area awhile, is it typical to see the first temps in the 40's at this time in mid November? and has this fall so far been warmer or cooler than usual (compared to the last 10-15 years)?

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The following weather data I have combined here from usclimatedata.com shows the temperature difference between the FL panhandle 9A and 8B. I chose 2015 for comparison because that's the only year they have data for Destin, and the month of January as that's usually the coldest month here.

In Jan. 2015 Destin went below 32F only once.

Niceville, which is a town right across the bay to the north from Destin went below 32F 11 times.

Crestview, which is right by I-10 went below 32F 12 times.

Last January, which we all know was a bad one, Crestview went below 32F a whopping 19 times.

So, in summary, maybe that explains the more deciduous look of the northern end of Florida panhandle and I-10 areas.

 

destin.jpg

niceville.jpg

crestview.jpg

Edited by Estlander
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Looks like we will get our 40s in November after all:

201811132245_WeatherForecast.png

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Some amazing cold in Texas and Mexico. Keep in mind Brownsville is more or less 10a and McAllen and Harlingen are 9b/10a, this could well be the coldest reading of the season (in mid NOVEMBER!). Sub 40 degree temperatures are expected to creep into lowland Tamaulipas as far south as 22-23*N. Tampico (22*N) recorded an afternoon high of 52F today and Veracruz (19*N) is forecast for a high in the mid 60s tomorrow. 

image2.png?ef6d4e58b6c3d850583aa95b5edd6

Edited by Xenon

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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3 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Looks like we will get our 40s in November after all:

Well, the summer’s gotta end sometime even for you guys down there. :)

You’ve been having some crazy high temperatures so far. The party’s over. Northwest Florida welcomes you to the winter. :D 

 

Edited by Estlander
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We could get our first snow well over a month earlier than our typical window for snow. We have also been having January weather the past few days and for the 10 day forecast. Hope this isn't a sign that bnb winter will be brutal...

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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Try living in the UK and growing palms over here. I had my first frost on September 18th, and then we had several more frosts in late September / early October. On the 10th October, it dipped down to 29F and then we had 30F as well on the 19th Oct and some snow flurries. It fried everything in my garden - tomatoes, peppers, apple trees. The only things that didn't die back were the palms. 

But fast forward 4 weeks, to mid November, and it is warmer now than it was back in late Sep / early Oct. We are currently seeing highs of 60F and lows of 50F. Yesterday, both our high and low temp was 20F warmer than Houston, TX. Strange that we had multiple freezes down to 29F and snow, 4-6 weeks ago, but now we have above average temps. It was 53F at 2am this morning. It's nowhere near as cold as it was 4-5 weeks ago, considering we had 29F at 3am on 10th October. And 31F as early as September 18th. 

I have even moved my peppers back outdoors, as well as the cacti. We have 65F forecast tomorrow, with a low of 51F, in mid November. Yet we had frost in September...? :bemused:

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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WOW, snow in Huston that must be a new record for early snowfall. Some parts of the deep south got a dusting and up to 1/2 inch. Crazy!

I've been taking advantage of the mild fall here by doing some transplanting of cordylines, shrubs and seedlings. 

Edited by Palm crazy
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26 minutes ago, Palm crazy said:

WOW, snow in Huston that must be a new record for early snowfall. Some parts of the deep south got a dusting and up to 1/2 inch. Crazy!

I've been taking advantage of the mild fall here by doing some transplanting of cordylines, shrubs and seedlings. 

The airport (IAH) north of town and the northern suburbs saw a trace, most of Houston did not see any snow (Houston reports earliest recorded snow; freeze expected Tuesday night). Most of the city bottomed out at 30-34F. Parts of the inner city, south Houston, and areas near the bay narrowly avoided a freeze. 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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2 hours ago, Xenon said:

The airport (IAH) north of town and the northern suburbs saw a trace, most of Houston did not see any snow (Houston reports earliest recorded snow; freeze expected Tuesday night). Most of the city bottomed out at 30-34F. Parts of the inner city, south Houston, and areas near the bay narrowly avoided a freeze. 

Good to know Xenon.  Temps are all over the place here too. At the Airport, they saw temps in the upper 20's but in town close to salt water, most have not had a freeze.  We've seen little rain in November which is our most rainy month and lots of sunshine, very unusual but loving every minute of it.  :D

Edited by Palm crazy
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18 hours ago, Xenon said:

Some amazing cold in Texas and Mexico. Keep in mind Brownsville is more or less 10a and McAllen and Harlingen are 9b/10a, this could well be the coldest reading of the season (in mid NOVEMBER!). Sub 40 degree temperatures are expected to creep into lowland Tamaulipas as far south as 22-23*N. Tampico (22*N) recorded an afternoon high of 52F today and Veracruz (19*N) is forecast for a high in the mid 60s tomorrow. 

image2.png?ef6d4e58b6c3d850583aa95b5edd6

Tampico high of 52, wow that has got to be the most climate-ripped-off place in the world that is within the tropics on the coast. I believe it also holds the record for lowest latitude snow recorded at sea level. 

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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