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My Pennsylvania Palm


NC_Palms

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Even though I evacuated Florence, the palms are still in sight! I planted this windmill palm (trachycarpus fortunei) last August at my Mom's place up in Pennsylvania.

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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What zone and what kind of protection does it get? Looks good but also looks slow growing.

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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15 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

What zone and what kind of protection does it get? Looks good but also looks slow growing.

Zone 6b near Hershey. I only covered it with towels and strung Christmas lights around it.  

Edited by NC_Palms
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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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On 2018-09-17, 10:03:36, NC_Palms said:

Zone 6b near Hershey. I only covered it with towels and strung Christmas lights around it.  

Interesting as I live in zone 6b as well 

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5 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

Interesting as I live in zone 6b as well 

You should definitely give this palm a try! Just be ready for protection in the winter months. I planted this windmill in a warm 6b climate, almost 7a. I saw you are in Ontario which is probably a little colder. 

Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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1 minute ago, NC_Palms said:

You should definitely give this palm a try! Just be ready for protection in the winter months. I planted this windmill in a warm 6b climate, almost 7a. I saw you are in Ontario which is probably a little colder. 

I guess I should rephrase. I’m sorry I have a whole bunch of trachys just there all in pots and I’m interested that you only lightly covered it and used Xmas lights. I just wonder about the crazy winds I get here I will have to find a special shielded area form mine when the time comes 

heres my oldest. I didn’t grow this one from seed but it is a 7 gallon. Maybe I will plant it next year 

image.jpg

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39 minutes ago, Rickybobby said:

I guess I should rephrase. I’m sorry I have a whole bunch of trachys just there all in pots and I’m interested that you only lightly covered it and used Xmas lights. I just wonder about the crazy winds I get here I will have to find a special shielded area form mine when the time comes 

heres my oldest. I didn’t grow this one from seed but it is a 7 gallon. Maybe I will plant it next year 

image.jpg

Oh, I did not lightly cover it at all. I used a bungee cord and wrapped several blankets and towels around it, still managing to get by with some devastating (but not complete) defoliation. I am sorry for the misconception.

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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That’s ok I know a bunch of people way further north. Wasaga beach and Montreal have been very successful with trachycarpus  Montreal 45.5 degrees wasaga 44.5 degrees and where I live is 43 degrees latitude  we all know Vancouver they need no protection being zone 8 plus and 49 degrees latitude I think the winds here will be my challenge finding south facing and keeping away from heavy winds will be my nemesis. 

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I would think the difference in the PA z6 and Canada z6 is ultimate lows and length of cold. Remember a long period of 25f is far more damaging than a night at 10 to 15f. But protection and good placement should work!

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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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2 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

I would think the difference in the PA z6 and Canada z6 is ultimate lows and length of cold. Remember a long period of 25f is far more damaging than a night at 10 to 15f. But protection and good placement should work!

This is true for much of the province, however if you live around Lake Ontario and Southwestern Ontario it's warmer than most of PA.  Being sandwiched between giant bodies of water has a very distinct moderating impact.  Much of South Western Ontario is a unique biotope for Canada.  It's called the Carolinian zone and was named because many of the plant species found also occur in the Carolina's (Paw paw, Sassafras, Cucumber tree, Kentucky Coffee tree and more).   Believe it or not when you head south from Ontario it gets colder before you reach a comparable zone. 

Many winters are mild but when a strong Arctic blast moves in the temps can get quite cold.  At my old house I've seen cordylines stay green throughout the winter and continue growing in early spring, but I was in a particularly good microclimate.  Others have success with Southern Magnolia's and there is an old Monkey puzzle downtown Niagara on the Lake.  Canada isn't all snow and igloos:lol:

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3 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

I would think the difference in the PA z6 and Canada z6 is ultimate lows and length of cold. Remember a long period of 25f is far more damaging than a night at 10 to 15f. But protection and good placement should work!

This is where you can easily be wrong I live in south west Ontario and we are just as far south and same latitude or close. Remember not all of Canada is far north and southern Ontario has a lot of the countries population 

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3 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

I would think the difference in the PA z6 and Canada z6 is ultimate lows and length of cold. Remember a long period of 25f is far more damaging than a night at 10 to 15f. But protection and good placement should work!

Literally 15mins south of me is zone 7a

as is very close to Lake Erie in that wrap around which is why Ontario and penn state produce a lot of wine and grapes 

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I guarantee your heat zone is lower than an equivalent hardiness zone in PA. Remember your fridge is zone 10...

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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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3 hours ago, Chester B said:

This is true for much of the province, however if you live around Lake Ontario and Southwestern Ontario it's warmer than most of PA.  Being sandwiched between giant bodies of water has a very distinct moderating impact.  Much of South Western Ontario is a unique biotope for Canada.  It's called the Carolinian zone and was named because many of the plant species found also occur in the Carolina's (Paw paw, Sassafras, Cucumber tree, Kentucky Coffee tree and more).   Believe it or not when you head south from Ontario it gets colder before you reach a comparable zone. 

Many winters are mild but when a strong Arctic blast moves in the temps can get quite cold.  At my old house I've seen cordylines stay green throughout the winter and continue growing in early spring, but I was in a particularly good microclimate.  Others have success with Southern Magnolia's and there is an old Monkey puzzle downtown Niagara on the Lake.  Canada isn't all snow and igloos:lol:

3

:blink: Interesting. I never knew that why parts of Ontario are called the Carolinian zone for that reason. 

 

They should try planting quercus virginiana and sabal minor for the Eastern NC look :floor:

Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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11 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

Once again southern Ontario gets very hot 

 

I have been to Canada and "very hot" is relative. I'm not saying there aren't pockets like Maidstone and McGregor (by Detroit and considered a pretty cold place in the states) that are z7a but it's not BC Canada moderated by the pacific and not very hot when concerning tropicals and subtropicals.

 

I'd be interested in seeing this magnolia grandfloria in the Niagra area and how it looks in the dead of winter as they are rated down to 0f. 

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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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Pennsylvania is 20 miles from Ontario, a 6A in PA is the same as one in Ontario as is the same as one in Ohio or NY.  This is all the same region that shares the same climate.

Now where I live now in an 8B in Oregon, I can say after spending 3 years in Dallas which Is 8A/8B - that they are nothing alike and Dallas is a wicked hot place in comparison.

As far as the M grandiflora this house actually has two, it's down the street from my Mom's place they have grown quite a bit from the pic.  I'm not sure why I can't see the second one, it might be in the back but I'm having a hard time remembering.  I'm sure there is some damage to these trees in a bad winter, you would think?  But the trees look in good condition and  were quite large in person so there was no way these things are protected.  These people also have a mimosa, some yuccas and some running bamboo in the back and who knows what else.  I see what looks like a couple needle palms in front as well.  For reference this is a zone is either 6B or 7A, its kind of tough to tell from the maps.

2589 Olden ave, Niagara Falls, Ontario.

I'll try and find that monkey puzzle tree.  I know its been there for many many years.

Olden ave.JPG

Edited by Chester B
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Needles I can see for sure! The only thing that concerns me is the magnolia grandflora, I could see a little gem or braken's brown beauty up there but a normal Southern magnolia would at the very least lose its leaves in a solid zone 6 winter. @Chester B That's what I'm trying to get at with the heat zones. Im in a z7 here in Maryland and I have native subtropials and naturalized subtropicals all around me that wouldn't survive in a colder z7 as they need the heat we have. We get something like 45+ days over 90f usually with cooler summers like this one giving us 30+, while our coldest months average well over freezing. Can the same be said about northern PA or Ontario z7? Heck there is an extreme difference in Hershey PA when compared to my location and that's just 2.5+ hours away. 

 

Just to clarify I'm not trying to dissuade or disprove, rather Im trying to say there are severe differences in areas despite having the same zone designation.

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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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I totally get what you're saying.  I just wanted to point out that some areas of Southern Ontario are actually much warmer than most people realize and that summer is pretty intense in respect to heat and humidity.  Unfortunately most years result in snow:(

As far as those magnolias I was not able to look at them up close.  The first nursery in the area that started with cold hardy tropicals (subtropicals) a number of years back lists DD Blanchard on their website so it could be a possibility.  I don't recall seeing many at any other nurseries before, as we'd typically grow the deciduous types.
 

 

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53 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I totally get what you're saying.  I just wanted to point out that some areas of Southern Ontario are actually much warmer than most people realize and that summer is pretty intense in respect to heat and humidity.  Unfortunately most years result in snow:(

As far as those magnolias I was not able to look at them up close.  The first nursery in the area that started with cold hardy tropicals (subtropicals) a number of years back lists DD Blanchard on their website so it could be a possibility.  I don't recall seeing many at any other nurseries before, as we'd typically grow the deciduous types.
 

 

 

 

Oh I have been to Canada and I know that the area closest to the US and nearer to the coasts is far milder than the stereotype of Canada. 

  • Upvote 1

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/21/2018, 4:34:01, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

 

Oh I have been to Canada and I know that the area closest to the US and nearer to the coasts is far milder than the stereotype of Canada. 

Even Nova Scotia has a few hardy palms growing. 

Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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  • 9 months later...

It's still alive! No protection whatsoever besides some heavy mulching and a bath towel thrown on top of it during the coldest nights. The spear pulled so I just chopped off the dead top part of the trunk and it is coming back. 

IMG_4128_2.thumb.jpg.6cceed6aa6e116a9895cea3112bdab63.jpg

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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  • 5 months later...

Here’s the current update.

B1F6B0A2-82C8-4AB2-8E84-44D9321E8865.thumb.jpeg.5dee7d2100db73fb6ac5a1d963dae236.jpeg

 

A few snowflakes on the fronds. 

E2BBBA3D-E911-4585-AD6D-8DFF7D5B8D9C.thumb.jpeg.886db80aa60da6c844aa363eb9445808.jpeg

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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Looking good!

Edited by mdsonofthesouth
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LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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On 12/20/2019 at 8:25 AM, mdsonofthesouth said:

Looking good!

Thank you! 

Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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21 minutes ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Any updates on your NC wild palmetto reintroduction project?

I'll give everyone an update next week. I will be back in North Carolina next week and I will give everyone a thorough report on my restoration/reintroduction project. 

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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10 hours ago, NC_Palms said:

I'll give everyone an update next week. I will be back in North Carolina next week and I will give everyone a thorough report on my restoration/reintroduction project. 

Awesome! What you’re doing is great

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On 12/23/2019 at 10:31 AM, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

Awesome! What you’re doing is great

Thank you so much. That means a lot to me

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Zone 8a/8b Greenville, NC 

Zone 9a/9b Bluffton, SC

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