Need Advice To Maintain Healthy Roots 4 Young Coconut Tree

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My friend is attempting to grow a Coconut tree in a mild subtropical zone in Southern Europe. He has already planted it in the ground and its already grown two new leafs since. 

With the upcoming cooler season in December to February what precautionary things can he do to prevent root rot or can do to prevent root disease.

The climate of the area is frost free and never goes below zero.

Its in an unusual rainshadow coastal zone with hills close to the shore and inland.

Other plants that grow in this unique area out in the open without any protection whatsoever is papaya various mangoes (nam doc keitt ataulfo etc),pouteria canistel, Avocados, Banana Trees with huge fruit, Ficus Lyrata, Pitaya, Maracuja, guava, Passionfruit, Litchi, Citrus Bergamia, Passiflora, Macadamia, Syzgium Jambo, Black and White Sapote etc.

Temperatures never go below 4c even on coldest nights.

Any recommendations to protect his investment and for fertilizing?

Thank you.

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Spend on electricity a bit. Acquire a brood lamp 75-125 watts. Focus it on the soil. It will generate the necessary heat to warm up the coco.  If possible, during winter, set up a canopy atop the coco.  This should do it. Of course the only detrimental factor I see is the soil. It appears to not have the necessary drainage in order for the roots in winter to survive. Here again, train the brood lamps onto the soil to heat up the roots /soil and warm the coco.

I recommend some sort of canopy. At least the first 3 years.

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13 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

 

I passed on the message thanks. What additive do you recommend to preven root disease or rot

13 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

 

13 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

 

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Just to let you know this area is even milder than paphos Cyprus in winter extreme minimums in the evening. 

Its even warmer than paphos and sicily now with minumums in the mid 70s at night and 90s during the day.

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18 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

Just to let you know this area is even milder than paphos Cyprus in winter extreme minimums in the evening. 

Its even warmer than paphos and sicily now with minumums in the mid 70s at night and 90s during the day.

Why so vague? Sounds like somewhere on the Costa del Sol? 

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From the photos it looks to be in a fairly shaded area and coconuts like bright direct sunlight, you could put a piece of silver roofing insulation behind the palm to reflect any available light back at it to make the area as bright as possible. I also agree with Alex, some sort of canopy or little greenhouse will help to keep it warm and dry over the cooler months.

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13 hours ago, Xenon said:

Why so vague? Sounds like somewhere on the Costa del Sol? 

 not costa del sol its in south italy

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On 9/10/2018, 3:38:41, GottmitAlex said:

Spend on electricity a bit. Acquire a brood lamp 75-125 watts. Focus it on the soil. It will generate the necessary heat to warm up the coco.  If possible, during winter, set up a canopy atop the coco.  This should do it. Of course the only detrimental factor I see is the soil. It appears to not have the necessary drainage in order for the roots in winter to survive. Here again, train the brood lamps onto the soil to heat up the roots /soil and warm the coco.

I recommend some sort of canopy. At least the first 3 years.

23 hours ago, Xenon said:

 

His reply

The lamp you're referring to is infrared like those used for baby chicks?
At what distance should it be positioned from the plant?
I have yet to evaluate with the help of all of you even the minimum temperature of the lamp or any heater tube and then I consider a preventive fungicidal treatment to be important, but I would not go blindly with the risk of creating damage.

Added that the area is well drained.

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2 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

His reply

The lamp you're referring to is infrared like those used for baby chicks?
At what distance should it be positioned from the plant?
I have yet to evaluate with the help of all of you even the minimum temperature of the lamp or any heater tube and then I consider a preventive fungicidal treatment to be important, but I would not go blindly with the risk of creating damage.

Added that the area is well drained.

Exactly. What is employed for chicks.

Something like this:

125-Watt BR40 Incandescent Heat Clear Light Bulb

And an aluminum brood  light fixture (make sure it can handle up to 150w)

You want it 10" away from the coco and trained 85% on the soil and the rest on the base of the stem.  Use an infrared thermometer to make sure the stem does not go above 26c.  And of course the top soil will read (depending on distance) anywhere between 35c to 20c.

Heat will rise and will warm up the coco nicely.  Another upside: soil humidity will drain/evaporate faster. Great for winter. 

 

philips-heat-lamp-bulbs-416750-64_1000.jpg

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On 9/10/2018, 2:10:26, veeman55 said:

I passed on the message thanks. What additive do you recommend to preven root disease or rot

Salt and excellent drainage. At least 3x3x3m of pure coarse sand with a top 1" dressing of lava sand. (ACME, out of AZ as an example.) 

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27 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

His reply

The lamp you're referring to is infrared like those used for baby chicks?
At what distance should it be positioned from the plant?
I have yet to evaluate with the help of all of you even the minimum temperature of the lamp or any heater tube and then I consider a preventive fungicidal treatment to be important, but I would not go blindly with the risk of creating damage.

Added that the area is well drained.

Minimum temp on the base/stem of the seedling should be 16c. Max 26c.  During those cold winter mornings. Between 2am-8am 

I look at it this way, (in my case) that I have 5 laptops turned on for 6 hours a day during 2 months out of the year (give or take). :)

 

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It looks like one of the ones sold in LIDL (& other supermarkets), these are force grown in hot houses in Holland & will melt at the first sign of cool temperatures. If your friend wants to keep it I would tell him to dig it up & keep it potted & indoors or a greenhouse over winter.

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10 minutes ago, SouthSeaNate said:

It looks like one of the ones sold in LIDL (& other supermarkets), these are force grown in hot houses in Holland & will melt at the first sign of cool temperatures. If your friend wants to keep it I would tell him to dig it up & keep it potted & indoors or a greenhouse over winter.

Agreed for Holland. However if it never freezes where the coco is situated, he may have a chance. In that climate, mine included, I believe the first three years are the crucial ones in which seedlings require protection. Once they develop the root system after three years, they have a chance.  I've read too many anecdotes where folks transplant a full grown or juvenile coconut to marginal climates. The common denominator in those have been: they die come winter. They did not have a chance for their root system to develop. 

If they begin with a seedling and protect it for the first 3 years, they will have won half the battle.  However, cases such as being In a marginal climate and close to the beach, (i.e, Newport beach): doing this is akin to being on life support.

The constant cold, marine layer is a killer.

 

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3 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Agreed for Holland. However if it never freezes where the coco is situated, he may have a chance. In that climate, mine included, I believe the first three years are the crucial ones in which seedlings require protection. Once they develop the root system after three years, they have a chance.  I've read too many anecdotes where folks transplant a full grown or juvenile coconut to marginal climates. The common denominator in those have been: they die come winter. They did not have a chance for their root system to develop. 

If they begin with a seedling and protect it for the first 3 years, they will have won half the battle.  However, cases such as being In a marginal climate and close to the beach, (i.e, Newport beach): doing this is akin to being on life support.

The constant cold, marine layer is a killer.

 

I think you misunderstood, I meant that the Coconut, like many houseplants sold in Europe, are grown in Holland, in huge greenhouses. They are grown in very high temperatures for fast growth & then sold in supermarkets/DIY stores all over Europe very cheaply. They rarely last very long because of how they have been initially grown. Not a problem during the summer, but as soon as the weather starts to cool down that Coconut will start to die, if it remains above freezing or not. Nowhere in southern Italy has daytime temperatures high enough to keep a Coconut alive.

If someone wants to try a Coconut in a warmer part of Europe then it is best to sprout your own, even then it is unlikely to survive.

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Just now, SouthSeaNate said:

I think you misunderstood, I meant that the Coconut, like many houseplants sold in Europe, are grown in Holland, in huge greenhouses. They are grown in very high temperatures for fast growth & then sold in supermarkets/DIY stores all over Europe very cheaply. They rarely last very long because of how they have been initially grown. Not a problem during the summer, but as soon as the weather starts to cool down that Coconut will start to die, if it remains above freezing or not. Nowhere in southern Italy has daytime temperatures high enough to keep a Coconut alive.

If someone wants to try a Coconut in a warmer part of Europe then it is best to sprout your own, even then it is unlikely to survive.

Ah I see. Thank you. 

Yes, I noticed the coco stem is very long and quite thin. As if it has never seen natural daylight. Which brings me to the other key factor for choosing coconuts: get the one with the widest sprout. Don't care about height as much as how wide the neck (stem/sprout) is.  Jmho

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8 minutes ago, SouthSeaNate said:

I think you misunderstood, I meant that the Coconut, like many houseplants sold in Europe, are grown in Holland, in huge greenhouses. They are grown in very high temperatures for fast growth & then sold in supermarkets/DIY stores all over Europe very cheaply. They rarely last very long because of how they have been initially grown. Not a problem during the summer, but as soon as the weather starts to cool down that Coconut will start to die, if it remains above freezing or not. Nowhere in southern Italy has daytime temperatures high enough to keep a Coconut alive.

If someone wants to try a Coconut in a warmer part of Europe then it is best to sprout your own, even then it is unlikely to survive.

On 9/10/2018, 3:38:41, GottmitAlex said:

Spend on electricity a bit. Acquire a brood lamp 75-125 watts. Focus it on the soil. It will generate the necessary heat to warm up the coco.  If possible, during winter, set up a canopy atop the coco.  This should do it. Of course the only detrimental factor I see is the soil. It appears to not have the necessary drainage in order for the roots in winter to survive. Here again, train the brood lamps onto the soil to heat up the roots /soil and warm the coco.

I recommend some sort of canopy. At least the first 3 years.

On 9/10/2018, 5:35:58, Xenon said:

 

His reply

The lamp you're referring to is infrared like those used for baby chicks?
At what distance should it be positioned from the plant?
I have yet to evaluate with the help of all of you even the minimum temperature of the lamp or any heater tube and then I consider a preventive fungicidal treatment to be important, but I would not go blindly with the risk of creating damage.

Added that the area is well drained.

 

SouthSea there is a small one surviving in Paphos Cyprus.

This particular area in southern italy grows cherimoyas mangoes commercially without cold protection. Cold sensitive huge Papayas grow wild in the sides of hills without any protection. The sunshine is brighter than other areas its also protected by mountains and hills from all the cold areas. The bergamot also grows here the best like nowhere else on the planet.

The cold sensitive Cavendish banana produces huge bunches almost like the canary islands So i will disagree with your assessment that this area doesnt have a chance.

If the Corona Coconut thrives well then this one has a chance

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1 minute ago, veeman55 said:

SouthSea there is a small one surviving in Paphos Cyprus.

This particular area in southern italy grows cherimoyas mangoes commercially without cold protection. Cold sensitive huge Papayas grow wild in the sides of hills without any protection. The sunshine is brighter than other areas its also protected by mountains and hills from all the cold areas. The bergamot also grows here the best like nowhere else on the planet.

The cold sensitive Cavendish banana produces huge bunches almost like the canary islands So i will disagree with your assessment that this area doesnt have a chance.

If the Corona Coconut thrives well then this one has a chance

The one in Cyprus is protected & was not a force grown/stretched plant. Cyprus also gets higher daytime temperatures in winter, as does Corona.

A coconut your friend has sprouted himself & more acclimatised to those conditions may stand a better chance, but would still need to be protected. 

 

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Yes it was purchased at Lidl. So it was forced grown? That could be an interesting determining factor. I will let him know. 

SouthSeas how would one go about to aquire a viable nut in Europe to plant on your own

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9 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

Yes it was purchased at Lidl. So it was forced grown? That could be an interesting determining factor. I will let him know. 

SouthSeas how would one go about to aquire a viable nut in Europe to plant on your own

Yes they are mass produced in hot houses in Holland for the houseplant trade, but they never last very long. 

You could try to sprout a de-husked coconut from a supermarket, it is quite easy to do (do a search on here) or you can buy them on Ebay, providing they will ship to Italy.

Edited by SouthSeaNate
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31 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

 

SouthSea there is a small one surviving in Paphos Cyprus.

This particular area in southern italy grows cherimoyas mangoes commercially without cold protection. Cold sensitive huge Papayas grow wild in the sides of hills without any protection. The sunshine is brighter than other areas its also protected by mountains and hills from all the cold areas. The bergamot also grows here the best like nowhere else on the planet.

The cold sensitive Cavendish banana produces huge bunches almost like the canary islands So i will disagree with your assessment that this area doesnt have a chance.

If the Corona Coconut thrives well then this one has a chance

You can grow all of that stuff in a frost free climate, but coconuts needs warmth. Cherimoyas do not usually grow well in areas ideal for coconuts (too hot). 

I think Corona has warmer winter highs than anywhere in Italy. Does this location have 20C daytime highs in mid-winter? 

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Coconuts can't survive long term in a mediterranean climate. Even when winter lows don't fall to freezing, the winter highs will not be high enough to keep this heat-loving tropical palm alive. And if the place where your friend is growing it gets rain in winter, his coconut is a goner. It needs full sun and high heat, i.e., 30C+. Your friend never should have planted it this late in the year as it will have no chance to establish before winter.

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7 hours ago, veeman55 said:

His reply

The lamp you're referring to is infrared like those used for baby chicks?
At what distance should it be positioned from the plant?
I have yet to evaluate with the help of all of you even the minimum temperature of the lamp or any heater tube and then I consider a preventive fungicidal treatment to be important, but I would not go blindly with the risk of creating damage.

Added that the area is well drained.

 

SouthSea there is a small one surviving in Paphos Cyprus.

This particular area in southern italy grows cherimoyas mangoes commercially without cold protection. Cold sensitive huge Papayas grow wild in the sides of hills without any protection. The sunshine is brighter than other areas its also protected by mountains and hills from all the cold areas. The bergamot also grows here the best like nowhere else on the planet.

The cold sensitive Cavendish banana produces huge bunches almost like the canary islands So i will disagree with your assessment that this area doesnt have a chance.

If the Corona Coconut thrives well then this one has a chance

All of the other plants you mention here are much easier to grow than a coconut in a Mediterranean climate, they all grow well and fruit prolifically here in Perth, a coconut is the next level from them with regards to warmth, they will grow here in Perth but need protection for the first several years.

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9 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

All of the other plants you mention here are much easier to grow than a coconut in a Mediterranean climate, they all grow well and fruit prolifically here in Perth, a coconut is the next level from them with regards to warmth, they will grow here in Perth but need protection for the first several years.

Quite right. It's the first several years which is key factor in this tumultuous setting. 

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On 9/11/2018, 6:32:12, SouthSeaNate said:

The one in Cyprus is protected & was not a force grown/stretched plant. Cyprus also gets higher daytime temperatures in winter, as does Corona.

A coconut your friend has sprouted himself & more acclimatised to those conditions may stand a better chance, but would still need to be protected. 

 

I doubt paphos is much warmer than there. Paphos winters are also wetter and more humid than other places in cyprus.

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On 9/11/2018, 5:37:35, SouthSeaNate said:

It looks like one of the ones sold in LIDL (& other supermarkets), these are force grown in hot houses in Holland & will melt at the first sign of cool temperatures. If your friend wants to keep it I would tell him to dig it up & keep it potted & indoors or a greenhouse over winter.

Since wasnt able to aquire a cool hardy coconut from philippines plan b is this. A no great expectations project

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I just noticed he planted it way too close to that stone wall. He should move it more like a meter away. This is a minor point, I know, as the palm may not survive winter there anyway.

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21 hours ago, veeman55 said:

I doubt paphos is much warmer than there. Paphos winters are also wetter and more humid than other places in cyprus.

The climate here in Paphos coast is very humid all year round but the winters are usually not very wet especially near the coast line. Our winters are usually dry and more mild that orher parts of the island. Most of the rain occurs on the mountains in the Paphos area which are far from the coast. Last winter we had one of these very dry and mild winters. The lowest temp that I had in my yard was around 8C.

For the coconut I have to agree with the others. We are not in the tropical zone but since you know your climate better than the rest of us give it a try. Like with my cocos is a fun experiment. All the advise was given here is very important. Especially to plant it south facing or at least to get as much full winter sun is possible. Protect it and keep it dry in the winter for as many years as you can to give it better chances. Make the best microclimate in your yard to have a few degrees more. But I agree that this cocos from Lidl is better first to acclimatize it for a couple of years protected in the winter maybe in a pot with beach sand.

Keep us posted and maybe try beccariophoenix alfredii as well. It would be also good to see more photos with palms from the area there of south Italy.

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Ti Kanis Stelios.

Glad your Coconut is doing well. Its my friend in Calabria thats going to try and make a coconut survive based on his extremely mild microclimate. His area is surrounded by tropical and subtropical fruits

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58 minutes ago, veeman55 said:

Ti Kanis Stelios.

Glad your Coconut is doing well. Its my friend in Calabria thats going to try and make a coconut survive based on his extremely mild microclimate. His area is surrounded by tropical and subtropical fruits

Hi Vee! Ime poli kala, efcharisto!

I really hope your friend will grow successfully the coconut. It will be interesting to see the updates in the future. 

Best regards

Stelios

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Without protection I find it very hard for the coco to grow, Italy does not have places where record  low below 4C does not happen, actually I doubt anywhere in geographic Europe can get lowest record of 4C, maybe during some years but not for a significant period of time. Even Lampedusa in Africa has seen the 2 C digit, Palermo has seen freezing. Anyway record lows is not what I find more important, the lack of high temperatures for months is very detrimental for the coco as well.

The Paphos coconut has been protected and Paphos is warm during the day for southern European standards (3C above Palermo) while also having nice lows. The corona coconut gets nice temperatures during the day, way more than Southern Europe, it also has its roots covered below pavement and is glued to a house wall, a sidewalk and a garage. 

Now I am not saying not to give it a try, but would try to protect it somehow with the ideas from the people growing them here in places where they shouldn't be growing in theory). It won't survive in the open almost 100% sure, but create a nice micro for it and perhaps it can be done.

Edited by Cluster
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On 9/14/2018, 9:09:33, Cluster said:

Without protection I find it very hard for the coco to grow, Italy does not have places where record  low below 4C does not happen, actually I doubt anywhere in geographic Europe can get lowest record of 4C, maybe during some years but not for a significant period of time. Even Lampedusa in Africa has seen the 2 C digit, Palermo has seen freezing. Anyway record lows is not what I find more important, the lack of high temperatures for months is very detrimental for the coco as well.

The Paphos coconut has been protected and Paphos is warm during the day for southern European standards (3C above Palermo) while also having nice lows. The corona coconut gets nice temperatures during the day, way more than Southern Europe, it also has its roots covered below pavement and is glued to a house wall, a sidewalk and a garage. 

Now I am not saying not to give it a try, but would try to protect it somehow with the ideas from the people growing them here in places where they shouldn't be growing in theory). It won't survive in the open almost 100% sure, but create a nice micro for it and perhaps it can be done.

On 9/14/2018, 9:09:33, Cluster said:

Without protection I find it very hard for the coco to grow, Italy does not have places where record  low below 4C does not happen, actually I doubt anywhere in geographic Europe can get lowest record of 4C, maybe during some years but not for a significant period of time. Even Lampedusa in Africa has seen the 2 C digit, Palermo has seen freezing. Anyway record lows is not what I find more important, the lack of high temperatures for months is very detrimental for the coco as well.

The Paphos coconut has been protected and Paphos is warm during the day for southern European standards (3C above Palermo) while also having nice lows. The corona coconut gets nice temperatures during the day, way more than Southern Europe, it also has its roots covered below pavement and is glued to a house wall, a sidewalk and a garage. 

Now I am not saying not to give it a try, but would try to protect it somehow with the ideas from the people growing them here in places where they shouldn't be growing in theory). It won't survive in the open almost 100% sure, but create a nice micro for it and perhaps it can be done.

Theres papayas growing wild in the open air in this specific part of southern italy which according to his climatic data findings has absolute minimums are above 4c.

23456565_10212063445840205_4202807469884513338_o.jpg

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These papayas are quite old. To survive 8 years without damage or dying tells you something about the weather there

download.jpg

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Papayas like coconuts are very sensitive to cold or cool wet weather. Not many places in the Mediterranean has papayas this big growing in open air without any protection whatsoever.

Papaya lazzaro particolare_16_01_17.jpg

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If you present me the data source then I believe it:) I just find it hard to believe it would be warmer than Lampedusa (in terms of record lows), without at least some justification. All stations in Wunderground in coastal  reggio calabria as well as southernmost tip ones, including official Servizio Meteorologico records show a lot cooler records (Servizio Meteorologico shows freezing actually) for both Reggio and Messina. Those wunderground stations are usually one or two years old so they are not even a good representation of a long period of time but they all show cooler values. Malta and Lampedusa have recorded lower than 4C and are better positioned, the latitude difference and further away from mainland with a lot more sea between them (and slightly warmer) that a cold front has to travel through before reaching them.

Papayas are a good sign you have a good climate but many people grow them in southern Europe, for example here in Lisbon. I am not saying you can't try a coconut if you protect it, but I just don't buy the 4C record low without a source. Almeria is believed to be the only place in continental Europe to have never recorded freezing temperatures (0.2 was the lowest), while I believe there exists more places (reggio could be one), 4C is just too too far fetched and against all evidence. Of course if I see accurate data I will accept it, I just have never seen anything remotely close to that in continental Europe.

I used wunderground stations as an example because usually they are not very reliable and tend to get warmer values than a proper meteo station, still they tell the same story it can get way cooler there. With records of absolute min temperature above 4C we are talking about something than even several coastal places in Azores can't achieve. As far as I know in 2017 Messina even saw snow at the beach (does not  necessarily mean it reached 0C but gives a good idea how cold it can get there).

Good luck with the experiment.

 

 

Edited by Cluster
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Nice papayas. 15-17*C highs are waaaaay too cool for coconuts. Only half of the year has highs above 20C...
 

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10 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Nice papayas. 15-17*C highs are waaaaay too cool for coconuts. Only half of the year has highs above 20C...
 

Agree. Coconuts are also "cool sensitive".

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4 hours ago, Cluster said:

Papayas are a good sign you have a good climate but many people grow them in southern Europe, for example here in Lisbon. I am not saying you can't try a coconut if you protect it, but I just don't buy the 4C record low without a source. Almeria is believed to be the only place in continental Europe to have never recorded freezing temperatures (0.2 was the lowest), while I believe there exists more places (reggio could be one), 4C is just too too far fetched and against all evidence. Of course if I see accurate data I will accept it, I just have never seen anything remotely close to that in continental Europe.

Indeed Papayas grow huge here in the open too & our minimum temperatures are higher, but a coconut has little chance of surviving.

The records for Almeria Spain only go back to 1968, so I'm sure it will have dropped below freezing even there too in recent history.

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13 hours ago, Cluster said:

If you present me the data source then I believe it:) I just find it hard to believe it would be warmer than Lampedusa (in terms of record lows), without at least some justification. All stations in Wunderground in coastal  reggio calabria as well as southernmost tip ones, including official Servizio Meteorologico records show a lot cooler records (Servizio Meteorologico shows freezing actually) for both Reggio and Messina. Those wunderground stations are usually one or two years old so they are not even a good representation of a long period of time but they all show cooler values. Malta and Lampedusa have recorded lower than 4C and are better positioned, the latitude difference and further away from mainland with a lot more sea between them (and slightly warmer) that a cold front has to travel through before reaching them.

Papayas are a good sign you have a good climate but many people grow them in southern Europe, for example here in Lisbon. I am not saying you can't try a coconut if you protect it, but I just don't buy the 4C record low without a source. Almeria is believed to be the only place in continental Europe to have never recorded freezing temperatures (0.2 was the lowest), while I believe there exists more places (reggio could be one), 4C is just too too far fetched and against all evidence. Of course if I see accurate data I will accept it, I just have never seen anything remotely close to that in continental Europe.

I used wunderground stations as an example because usually they are not very reliable and tend to get warmer values than a proper meteo station, still they tell the same story it can get way cooler there. With records of absolute min temperature above 4C we are talking about something than even several coastal places in Azores can't achieve. As far as I know in 2017 Messina even saw snow at the beach (does not  necessarily mean it reached 0C but gives a good idea how cold it can get there).

Good luck with the experiment.

 

 

The Reggio stats are from the airport location which are exposed to cooler winds and show a lower temperature. The Reggio seashore is much milder than reggio airport but there are no climate stations by the downtown reggio shores. But if you go further south to pellaro and saline the weather is even milder especially in the lows. You got hi mountains backing its rear from the northeast and sicilys mountains blocking northwest winds..theres also the straits modifying its weather.

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9 hours ago, SouthSeaNate said:

Indeed Papayas grow huge here in the open too & our minimum temperatures are higher, but a coconut has little chance of surviving.

The records for Almeria Spain only go back to 1968, so I'm sure it will have dropped below freezing even there too in recent history.

Malta Lampadusa Linosa are all exposed to crazy winter storms with howling cold winds and low temp windchills in the winter look at the past few years. One year the wind was so bad it carved up a friend of mines papayas on linosa

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