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How many fronds does trachycarpus fortunei put off in a year?


mdsonofthesouth

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Just curious as to how many fronds yall see put out each year. So far Im up to 7-8 depending on the tree for the year. Seems to be an easy recovery palm so far. What do yall typically see each year?

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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My 7 gallon Trachycarpus has one frond that opened and lifting and 2 spears coming up at once. I’d say a good new frond every 2 weeks 

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How many for the year so far? Just curious as to the differences in regions. Potted ones are exponentially slower despite the same soil and feeding.

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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My potted Trachy (roughly 3 gallon size) is currently opening frond #5, but it’s really gone into overdrive, the last 3 fronds have all opened in July, a new frond every week and a half. At this rate I’m hoping it’ll have at least 10 by the end of the year.

I’ve never seen more than 5 new fronds in a year so this is uncharted territory for me.

Edited by cm05
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I'm getting about 8 leaves per year in zone 8A.  These are plants without trunk (or just starting to trunk) that have been in the ground 1-2 years.

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Around 4-7 on each of mine so far this year.  My largest was putting out a new frond every 10 days at it's fastest.   I'd say a trachy can put out 10-20 fronds/year if happy.  Once the palms get full diameter trunks they seem to have more spears starting at once.  

Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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14 hours ago, cm05 said:

My potted Trachy (roughly 3 gallon size) is currently opening frond #5, but it’s really gone into overdrive, the last 3 fronds have all opened in July, a new frond every week and a half. At this rate I’m hoping it’ll have at least 10 by the end of the year.

I’ve never seen more than 5 new fronds in a year so this is uncharted territory for me.

 

Yeah it was a speed up process here too, at this rate I'll easily get double digits as trachycarpus grow well into December here.

 

9 hours ago, Turtlesteve said:

I'm getting about 8 leaves per year in zone 8A.  These are plants without trunk (or just starting to trunk) that have been in the ground 1-2 years.

 

All mine started last year without a trunk and now have 6 to 12in despite spear pulling and being severely stunted earlier this year.

 

1 hour ago, Allen said:

Around 4-7 on each of mine so far this year.  My largest was putting out a new frond every 10 days at it's fastest.   I'd say a trachy can put out 10-20 fronds/year if happy.  Once the palms get full diameter trunks they seem to have more spears starting at once.  

 

I would be tickled pink if I could get 20 fronds a year, but at this rate I might slightly up my spoon feeding and see how close I can get!

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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20 per year seems high...maybe with heavy fertilization?  Obviously the nurseries get them up to size quick.  I can easily count leaves on mine as they are still holding the stretched leaves they had when planted.

Steve

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1 hour ago, Turtlesteve said:

20 per year seems high...maybe with heavy fertilization?  Obviously the nurseries get them up to size quick.  I can easily count leaves on mine as they are still holding the stretched leaves they had when planted.

Steve

 

Currently my plan is 3 tbsp of sea kelp and 2 tbsp of fish fertilizer (both organic) mixed into 24oz of water the evening after a good morning deep soak. Relatively low NPK and no worries of ever burning. This concoction saved my Cerifera I believe, but isn't perfect. I do this once ever 3-5 weeks, but have debated a stricter slightly heavier dose (4 kelp and 3 fish) every 2 weeks for the remainder of the year and see if it speeds things up. As of now I'm putting on a whole lot more fronds than the plantation year, which could be almost entirely a testament to the new fert and having a years worth of rooting done. 

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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Ive never counted fronds, only inches of vertical trunk grown as they are sold by clear trunk height, not number of fronds.

So, i can report that if you average 8" of vertical trunk growth on a trunking windmill year after year after year you are about maxed out. This seems to be the maximum that you can achieve with this species while observing multiple individual plants. These are regular fortunei figures as other varieties grow faster(nova) and some (waggy) grow slower. 

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I grew this one from seed that I collected in 2015, so just under 3 years old.  I put it in the ground this past September when it first went palmate and I counted 8 new leaves this year so far.  Currently it has 12 palmate leaves and I've removed 2 or 3 of the older leaves.  It's in almost full shade (maybe 2 hours of direct sun) and doing much better than I anticipated.  Fortunately its compact nature allows for it to be planted this close to my fence (no CIDP or Bismarckia here)!  I'm sure larger trunking trees would be putting out much more leaves per year than this, but so far so good.

Jon

 

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Jon Sunder

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My waggy put out 10, 11 and 13 fronds respectively the last three years with no additional fertiliser.

It has a trunk of approx. 1m and has flowered for the first time this spring.

I did notice, though, that it almost stops growing when temps are over 30C.

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I just got mine a month ago but since then I have reported. Fertilized with fish emulsion a couple times and it has since taken off like a rocket like I said earlier what started at a frond every 2 weeks has now become every 1.5 weeks its very happy. Weather has been very humid and always in upper 80s

11346BC6-76A3-4145-B185-8559E98F899F.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Flow said:

I did notice, though, that it almost stops growing when temps are over 30C.

Interesting.  Do T. wagnerianus grow differently than T. fortunei?  Most of my new growth has been since April and my daily high temps have been above 30° C each day since April.  In fact it has been nearly 40° many days including today.

Jon

Jon Sunder

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24 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Interesting.  Do T. wagnerianus grow differently than T. fortunei?  Most of my new growth has been since April and my daily high temps have been above 30° C each day since April.  In fact it has been nearly 40° many days including today.

Jon

I agree that the high temps have not slowed mine down 

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8 minutes ago, Rickybobby said:

I agree that the high temps have not slowed mine down 

Yours looks good - mine might get to that size by this time next year!  You can't tell from my photo but it's just starting to get a hairy "trunk".  I did fertilize it a few weeks ago - it's much happier now than when it was in a container.

Jon Sunder

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7 hours ago, Fusca said:

Interesting.  Do T. wagnerianus grow differently than T. fortunei?  Most of my new growth has been since April and my daily high temps have been above 30° C each day since April.  In fact it has been nearly 40° many days including today.

Jon

I'd say they should grow the same but I have no standard fortunei– perhaps it was lack of water with mine that slowed it down since I never water them.

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We have been over 30c for months and mine are growing like mad and like I said even grow through most of December where the average temp is 47f I think. Might be off on the average but they still grew despite a unusually cold December. Will see if this year is different.

Edited by mdsonofthesouth

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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8 hours ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

We have been over 30c for months and mine are growing like mad and like I said even grow through most of December where the average temp is 47f I think. Might be off on the average but they still grew despite a unusually cold December. Will see if this year is different.

The one I planted in April has been growing like a weed despite full sun and hot temperatures. This year luckily we haven't gotten over 95 degrees though so I'm sure that has helped. I didn't know they could still grow in December. How much growth would you say you get for the winter months? 

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3 hours ago, Ninja88 said:

The one I planted in April has been growing like a weed despite full sun and hot temperatures. This year luckily we haven't gotten over 95 degrees though so I'm sure that has helped. I didn't know they could still grow in December. How much growth would you say you get for the winter months? 

 

We have had a handful of over 95f days but our indexes have been over 100 alot of days and mine are in sun most if not all of the day. With water, good soil and organics they LOVE the humid subtropic summer!

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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I begin to notice a slowdown above 95F (35C). Mine is growing like a weed and temperatures have been mostly above 86F (30C) with tropical humidity, dew points have been at/near 80F everyday this month except today.

My Trachycarpus takil, on the other hand, seems somewhat allergic to heat. Growth was on par with my Fortunei throughout May and early June, but it’s slowed since then. It’s still chugging along though, at about the same pace as my Rhapidophyllum hystrix.

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Have you been irrigating and feeding them? We have gotten record rain this summer from late April to now and haven't had to irrigate much at all. I also feed once a month. 

Edited by mdsonofthesouth

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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I do not know about the number of the leaves per year, but all of mine get around 10-15 cm of trunk each year.

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1 hour ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Mine slowly rotted away from the crown, it was small and could not handle the fungus I assume. :rant:

 

I just pulled one of the 2 that didn't spear pull this winter out due to the 15+ inches of rain in may. Got sick and the inside was a hollow rotten mess. Only palm to die for me so far...

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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14 minutes ago, mdsonofthesouth said:

 

I just pulled one of the 2 that didn't spear pull this winter out due to the 15+ inches of rain in may. Got sick and the inside was a hollow rotten mess. Only palm to die for me so far...

That is like what happened to mine, it looked fine but just randomly rotted out in the crown and slowly declined. 

PalmTreeDude

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I have 7 planted in the ground and 1 in a 20 gallon pot. Depends on where they are sited. Once that get a lot of sun, and are planted closer to the house and easier to protect during the winter may push out 6 or 7 a season, but others that get partial sun and further away from house 2-4

 

I'm in Nebraska zone 5b/6a

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12 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

That is like what happened to mine, it looked fine but just randomly rotted out in the crown and slowly declined. 

They rot out and die here too if the soil is waterlogged.  One of the tallest ones in town here died in 2017 after a similar month of constant rain, and the winter before was fairly mild so there was no residual cold damage.  Much less tolerant of wet soil vs. Butia and palmetto.  I'm planting mine in raised beds.

Steve 

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On 8/10/2018, 11:22:27, mdsonofthesouth said:

Have you been irrigating and feeding them? We have gotten record rain this summer from late April to now and haven't had to irrigate much at all. I also feed once a month. 

Yeah I’ve been feeding them roughly once a month. The record rains have been further west over PA/DMV, so I’ve had to irrigate every other day this summer when it doesn’t rain.

I’m surprised Trachys are rotting from too much rain (outside of winter). In their habitat they receive 3-4 times the summer rain that they get in most of the US.

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8 hours ago, cm05 said:

Yeah I’ve been feeding them roughly once a month. The record rains have been further west over PA/DMV, so I’ve had to irrigate every other day this summer when it doesn’t rain.

I’m surprised Trachys are rotting from too much rain (outside of winter). In their habitat they receive 3-4 times the summer rain that they get in most of the US.

 

Luckily only 1 has died due to rot. But sadly the weeds LOVE all this rain and have grown in too often...

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here in the PNW we get a lot of rain (Oct - May) and in the Willamette valley we are cursed with clay soil.  No issues here with Trachys and wet soil.  The palm nursery has many growing in an area with a high water table where they are under a few inches of water quite often and the occasional seasonal flooding.  I have two planted in a sloppy area of my yard and they are the fastest growing ones I have.  Perhaps the rot others are experiencing has to do with the combination of hot humid air and wet soil.  Here we have low humidity and hot dry summers.  

As for the original question, it seems to be highly variable.  The slowest trachy's I have put out 2-3 per year, some in the 4-6 range, a couple in 8-10 and I have one beast that has put out 16.  Most of these have been in the ground for only a year and a half, and what I've noticed is that they are picking up speed with time.  I  can also say in my experience ones in the shade are much slower and ones growing in consistently moist soil go faster

Edited by Chester B
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I have a Trachycarpus 'Winsan' that I planted in 2016 at 2 1/2 feet tall, it grew 9 fronds that year 11 fronds in 2017 and 13 so far this year. It's now 9 feet tall and getting a new frond every 7-10 days. I also have a small Nova that I planted this year it has only grown 4 fronds so far, it was shipped to me bare root so its probably just getting its roots established this year.

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Yeah bare root take a while to get acclimated. Between that and how easy air pockets happen make me not a big fan of that method. But it makes shipping cheap!

 

LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F

Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto 

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