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Juania australis Palm Possible Climates


Palmsbro

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  I have seen numerous suggestions about where this palm can grow outside the Juan Fernandez Islands, but these were on many separate threads, so I decided to make a unified thread on this topic.

  I've heard that this palm can survive in some areas of Ireland http://www.earlscliffe.com/juania_australis.htm, the San Francisco Bay Area, a small area of Western Oregon, and some of New Zealand.

  Can the palm actually survive and naturalize (do really well) in these climates?

  Also, where else may this palm be able to grow outside of these areas.

  Climate of native habitat:

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Fernández_Islands#Climate

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The native habitat of this palm almost never goes above 72 F/22 C or below 48 F/9 C, which is quite a narrow range (only 24 F/13 C difference!).

However, the successful cultivation of this palm in Dublin, Ireland suggests that this palm can handle a somewhat wider range of temperatures, especially on the cold side of the temperature spectrum. This palm is said to be hardy to USDA hardiness zone 9b.

This expands the range of places that this palm can be grown.

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Looks like you're going to be the tester of this theory. :)

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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This palm has the dubious superlative as the most difficult palm in the world to grow. I read there are several grown to maturity in Ireland. I've seen photos of a somewhat sorry specimen in San Francisco. Outside of San Fran I know of no other place where this dioecious palm has been successfully grown in the US. Unless someone can provide a cool, shaded greenhouse/conservatory to mimic its narrow marine environment he likely stands no chance of success. A zone 9b designation is meaningless for this palm.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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This palm will break your heart.   Not only difficult to obtain, but difficult to grow.  It will grow well for several years and then die suddenly without warning.  My microclimate is a good analog for the habitat climate but I chose to not grow this palm.  I grew 5 plants from seedling to emergent trunk at our Lakeside Palmetum only to have two killed by vandalism and three which died suddenly on their own.  I call this the "Juania Sudden Death Syndrome".

Don't bother, any Ceroxylon is easier to grow and more attractive.  :)

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San Francisco, California

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25 minutes ago, Darold Petty said:

This palm will break your heart.   Not only difficult to obtain, but difficult to grow.  It will grow well for several years and then die suddenly without warning.  My microclimate is a good analog for the habitat climate but I chose to not grow this palm.  I grew 5 plants from seedling to emergent trunk at our Lakeside Palmetum only to have two killed by vandalism and three which died suddenly on their own.  I call this the "Juania Sudden Death Syndrome".

Don't bother, any Ceroxylon is easier to grow and more attractive.  :)

I am not intending to grow it myself, as I am fully aware that Juania australis would not survive where I live.

I do want to find out where this palm can grow though.

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It's a challenge. However, I'm not to much attracted to this palm. Just sayin'.

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Extreme northwestern Spain seems like a near perfect match: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Coruña#Climate

Those record highs wouldn't do well for a Juania australis though. It would need to be protected on days with highs like those.

However, besides these occasional record highs, it looks like the A Coruña climate would suit it well (ie, regular temperatures are quite similar to those of the Juan Fernandez Islands).

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I've heard about a lot of them dieing here, and yet to see one alive. I'd be interested in trying one, but not at the price of seed or seedlings. Many other palms are more attractive...

Waimarama New Zealand (39.5S, 177E)

Oceanic temperate

summer 25C/15C

winter 15C/6C

No frost, no heat

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If the claimate is a good match but the palms die suddenly, it could be a root rot caused by phytophthora, or some other pathogen.  Some places don’t have native phytophthora and the flora is often very susceptible.  That’s the case in SW Australia.  

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Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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If it wasn't for the record high temps it may have had a chance here. The averages are almost bang on and it's virtually the same latitude. We don't always get hot in summer either. This year the hottest day was 33.9C and very few days reached 30C. Relative humidity is also close to habitat year round. I've also never recorded a min as high as 20C in the four years I've lived here even on the hottest day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany,_Western_Australia

However they are a serious investment to have just fail in the end. In a cool microclimate they may go ok here. 

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Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

If it wasn't for the record high temps it may have had a chance here. The averages are almost bang on and it's virtually the same latitude. We don't always get hot in summer either. This year the hottest day was 33.9C and very few days reached 30C. Relative humidity is also close to habitat year round. I've also never recorded a min as high as 20C in the four years I've lived here even on the hottest day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany,_Western_Australia

However they are a serious investment to have just fail in the end. In a cool microclimate they may go ok here. 

It does look like a good match except those record highs, which just look awful for everyone and everything (114 F, SWELTERING!!!). It doesn't even get that bad here in Fl.

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Tyrone, what a pleasant place!  Aside from the scorching heat waves in summer, the climate looks very human friendly.  The picture of Dog Rock has Washingtonia robusta!  How do the Australian Livistonas do there?  

Land O Lakes FL, a suburb on the North Side of Tampa, FL

Summers are great, 90f/32c in the day & 70f/21c at night with plentiful rain & sun

Winters are subtropical with occasional frosts and freezes. Tropical cyclones happen.

We have a few Royal palms in the warm microclimates but Coconuts freeze.

I am a Kayaker, Hiker, Bicyclist, and amateur Photographer that loves the outdoors.  

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1 hour ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Tyrone, what a pleasant place!  Aside from the scorching heat waves in summer, the climate looks very human friendly.  

Can't wait to hear Tyrone reply to this, he's been complaining about the cold ever since he moved there!  Sounds good to me too, although basically not too different from my climate I think the Albany winters would be better than here.

Waimarama New Zealand (39.5S, 177E)

Oceanic temperate

summer 25C/15C

winter 15C/6C

No frost, no heat

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On 4/18/2018, 7:44:53, PalmatierMeg said:

This palm has the dubious superlative as the most difficult palm in the world to grow. I read there are several grown to maturity in Ireland. I've seen photos of a somewhat sorry specimen in San Francisco. Outside of San Fran I know of no other place where this dioecious palm has been successfully grown in the US. Unless someone can provide a cool, shaded greenhouse/conservatory to mimic its narrow marine environment he likely stands no chance of success. A zone 9b designation is meaningless for this palm.

well said!!

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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3 hours ago, Palmsbro said:

It does look like a good match except those record highs, which just look awful for everyone and everything (114 F, SWELTERING!!!). It doesn't even get that bad here in Fl.

I doubt that 114F was in the last 30 years or more. This is actually quite a heat deprived place and you're often waiting for a warm non rainy sunny day to get on with things. It always cools down at night though. I haven't turned the air conditioner on in two years.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bennz said:

Can't wait to hear Tyrone reply to this, he's been complaining about the cold ever since he moved there!  Sounds good to me too, although basically not too different from my climate I think the Albany winters would be better than here.

I almost bough one to try at my Carlsbad garden that is close to the coast. From what I understand it only takes 1 short freak heat wave and this palm is toast. Let alone a hot tropical summer........

 

you can say I did not want to take that gamble financially.

 

I would defiantly try to grow

Lepidorrhachis mooreana

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Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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3 hours ago, Keith in SoJax said:

Tyrone, what a pleasant place!  Aside from the scorching heat waves in summer, the climate looks very human friendly.  The picture of Dog Rock has Washingtonia robusta!  How do the Australian Livistonas do there?  

Sort of replied to the heat thing in previous post. Livistonas do great here. I'm on swampy clay peat and my L australis just love it here.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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I think in my area if you lived within a km of the ocean, and especially if you lived on some sort of peninsula into the ocean, (there are some places like that down here) you'd probably never see a 37C ever and in most years not even a 30C day at all. Nights would likely never get as low as 1C either. These areas can be windswept places though so in a wind protected moist hollow I reckon a Juania australis would have a fighting chance.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Here's the maturing tree in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco... saw photos of similar one actually flowering in Ireland just a month ago.  

Juania australis GGP.jpg

Juania australis GGP crown.jpg

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On 4/19/2018, 8:08:51, Bennz said:

I've heard about a lot of them dieing here, and yet to see one alive. I'd be interested in trying one, but not at the price of seed or seedlings. Many other palms are more attractive...

Must be about half a dozen at Landsendt. One is flowering (a male). They never seem that thrifty to me.

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1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

I doubt that 114F was in the last 30 years or more. This is actually quite a heat deprived place and you're often waiting for a warm non rainy sunny day to get on with things. It always cools down at night though. I haven't turned the air conditioner on in two years.

Hi Tyrone,

Is it fair to assume you have  a low tolerance for anything below about 20C?  Looking at the BOM stats for Albany this month you have not been below 11C, and only a handful of daytimes that didn't quite hit 20C. I think I remember you saying once you'd be happiest somewhere in QLD?

 

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW6001.latest.shtml

Waimarama New Zealand (39.5S, 177E)

Oceanic temperate

summer 25C/15C

winter 15C/6C

No frost, no heat

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3 hours ago, Bennz said:

Hi Tyrone,

Is it fair to assume you have  a low tolerance for anything below about 20C?  Looking at the BOM stats for Albany this month you have not been below 11C, and only a handful of daytimes that didn't quite hit 20C. I think I remember you saying once you'd be happiest somewhere in QLD?

 

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/IDCJDW6001.latest.shtml

Very true Bennz very true. Actually according to my stats the only day this month below twenty Celsius was the 19th with 18.1C but the lowest night temp for me was a 5.7C on Saturday morning. The last couple of days have been warm and sticky with thunderstorms and 27.3C. It's been a warm April and I think we may be going in for a warm winter. I hope so anyway.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Josh-O said:

I almost bough one to try at my Carlsbad garden that is close to the coast. From what I understand it only takes 1 short freak heat wave and this palm is toast. Let alone a hot tropical summer........

 

you can say I did not want to take that gamble financially.

 

I would defiantly try to grow

Lepidorrhachis mooreana

I agree. I hope to see a few in habitat next month. Can't wait!!!!

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Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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Thanks for the great thread!  Never heard of these islands or this palm. Did anyone else follow the links to check out the native flora and fauna there? There is a critically endangered hummingbird called the Juan Fernandez Firecrown endemic to these islands. Quite beautiful! Hopefully there are conservation efforts to help maintain the nature in this place.

 

Thanks also for posting the picture of the palm at Golden Gate Park, that’s a gorgeous palm.

-Chris

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Thanks for the photo, Geoff.  This palm is growing well, even thought it always shows potassium deficiency.  I don't recall the source for this plant.  The white trunk to the right edge of the photo is Ceroxylon quindiuense, collected in 1978 by my friend, the late Garrin Fullington.

  Perhaps it was Garrin who donated the Juania also?

  If anyone wishes to visit these palms they are within the SF Botanical Garden, near the north entrance.

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San Francisco, California

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  • 4 months later...

After visiting the specimen in Howth in Dublin Ireland over the past 10 years i decided to get a few for myself as i am just across Dublin bay on the south side, when i look out my back window i look directly at the location of the Howth specimens location. 

In Adult form it it a stunning palm, certainly one of the best looking and unusual palms i have ever seen, the Howth specimen took 3days and nights below zero Celcius in December 2010 and -7.5C also over that period. 

I have 5 in total with 3 planted this summer (mid summer) and 2 more to plant in spring 2019. 

Here is a picture of the Howth specimen from spring 2018

 

IMG-20170916-WA0015.jpg

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I wonder how this palm would do on the west coast of the South Island, New Zealand and the west coast of Tasmania, Australia ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greymouth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strahan,_Tasmania

Or perhaps north western Tasmania ?

https://www.eldersweather.com.au/climate.jsp?lt=site&lc=91292

The extremes in the west and north west of Tassie are a rare occurrence, otherwise the climate looks pretty good for this finicky palm species.... ?

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The pictures of the two cultivated plants show that both have a potassium deficiency. I wonder if its a soil composition issue, if the species an unusually high potassium requirement, or if no one ever bothers to give them any supplementary potassium/magnesium?

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The Northern CA coast might support an impressive forest of Juania, Howea and Rhopalostylis. Perhaps even Ceroxylon... Here are average temperatures for Petrolia, just off Mattole Beach. I would imagine the weather is quite similar up toward Arcata also.

 Capture.PNG.14f1b25418152804afca6b929972

Here is that coastline over a New Year's weekend (Mid-Winter).

5ba26c18ce19f_LOSTCOAST2.jpg.40a215036e4

5ba26c25e865a_LOSTCOAST.jpg.a7bb1865da4c

 

 

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My good friend, the late Garrin Fullington planted several Ceroxylon quindiuense palms near a permanent stream in the woods near Fort Ross, CA.  Several grew well at first but they all died eventually.  :(

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San Francisco, California

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've got a couple of C. vogelianum growing up here just across the Mad River from Arcata doing great. 

Anybody know where to find some Juania seeds? Like Josue says it seems like this would be an ideal location for them to grow well.

I've grown a few I got years ago fro Inge Hoffman down in Campbell but I think I remember loosing them in the 90 freeze.

Happy Palm Growing everyone

IMG_1242.jpeg

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  • 7 months later...

Anyone know how long Juania seed remains viable for? RPS has seed but it's no longer in the "new" category.  

Ive just been closely comparing the Juan Fernandez climate to my own here and put both locations climate data into a chart to compare average conditions. My area has cooler minimums than Juan Fernandez but has higher maximums although my climate is still cool. When you compare average temps over the months( max and min per month) my climate is always within a degree Celsius of Juan Fernandez all year. When you average the entire year out my location is 15.4C and Juan Fernandez is 15.3C. Pretty close. Rainfall follows the exact same pattern and is roughly the same (although irrigation can make up for any lack) and my latitude is within a degree as well. Humidity runs about the same year round too.

The danger would be too high daily max temps in summer. But a breezy shade filled moist zone with misters should fix that on the hottest days. The wind is always blowing from somewhere here. If the wind drops out, its normally for just 5-10 mins in the day to change direction and blow from the other way. 

If Juania seed has a long viability like Ceroxylon I may give it a try. If it doesn't I'll give it a miss.

Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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I have 10 seeds of Juania from RPS.  They were sown on June 4th, 2018 within my greenhouse with temperatures ranging from 10-27 C.  (50-82F).  I used my standard germination mix of 2 parts perlite and 1 part peat.  No bottom heat,  to date there has been no germination.

Tyrone, don't waste your enthusiasm or money !  

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San Francisco, California

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On 5/6/2019 at 9:42 PM, Darold Petty said:

I have 10 seeds of Juania from RPS.  They were sown on June 4th, 2018 within my greenhouse with temperatures ranging from 10-27 C.  (50-82F).  I used my standard germination mix of 2 parts perlite and 1 part peat.  No bottom heat,  to date there has been no germination.

Tyrone, don't waste your enthusiasm or money !  

Thanks Darold. I don't think I'll bother then. Hedyscepe grow really well here though.

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Millbrook, "Kinjarling" Noongar word meaning "Place of Rain", Rainbow Coast, Western Australia 35S. Warm temperate. Csb Koeppen Climate classification. Cool nights all year round.

 

 

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  • 1 year later...
On 5/6/2019 at 9:42 AM, Darold Petty said:

I have 10 seeds of Juania from RPS.  They were sown on June 4th, 2018 within my greenhouse with temperatures ranging from 10-27 C.  (50-82F).  I used my standard germination mix of 2 parts perlite and 1 part peat.  No bottom heat,  to date there has been no germination.

Tyrone, don't waste your enthusiasm or money !  

Any action by now?

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Zero sucess,  if you have sucess with this palm I salute you!  Supposedly there are a few nice ones in Ireland.

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San Francisco, California

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