My seeds didn't sprout! (Sob!) Share advice!

[DoomsDave]

Okay.

This is somewhat autobiographical . . . .

You get some seeds, maybe from a palm in that posh tropic resort (with music playing, bodies swaying), or in an envelope from far away (for money or for free), or even a palm in your yard that you've loved, nurtured, read bedtime stories to for years.

You plant the seeds, in a fever of anticipation. Music plays, palm fronds sway. 

And they don't grow. You wait and they still don't.

You're ready to heave the pot and contents into the compost . . .

DON'T.

Yet.

First, reach into the pot (or baggie), and give the seeds a squeeze between your fingers. If they're firm, they might still be good. If one squishes, try another. If they all squish, into the pile they go!

But, those that don't squish should be left in the pot (or baggie), and wait some more.

The following is GENERAL ADVICE, which I've found useful for all or almost all of the seeds I've grown, or tried to.

Check the temperature. It should be about 80 F. (27 C.) Too hot can be as bad as too cold. One big exception seems to be Jubaea, which takes 90 F.  (32 C.) The heat issue is often more of a problem than you think, especially in the north in the winter. Room temp won't cut it where you're saving energy and keeping the thermo low, and wearing long johns indoors in a Canadian, Russian, Korean, or northern Japanese winter. Or, even along the French, Italian, California, or Mexican Rivieras. Cover the pot, if you have to, with a plastic bag (or use the baggie method). If "perspiration" appears on it, it's usually warm enough. Windowsills usually aren't good, because it can get really cold on one, even in a warm house. The mantel is better, or a bookshelf.

The soil should be moist, but not sodden. I generally let dry a bit between waterings. Exceptions are "swamp things" like Roystonea oleracea, and "desert denizens" like Braheas. The first I keep a bit wetter; the second I use faster-draining soil for.

If you think the soil's not right, no harm in pulling them out and planting in some soil you think is good.

The best soil is "potting soil" that absorbs water, drains excess immediately, and stays moist a while. I generally cover seeds with about half an inch (1 cm) of soil.

Be prepared to wait. When I was a lad, I planted bean seeds and they popped in a few days! Palms almost all take a lot longer, sometimes a helluva lot longer. Most palm germinations I've found to be measured in months. Desert types take a lot longer (usually) than tropical jungle types.

So, share thoughts, ask questions, and if you think I'm wrong, correct me.

Open the floodgates of discussion!

[Matt in OC]

Good advice, Dave.

In my limited experience, I prefer the baggy method (sphagnum, maybe a little perlite) with most seeds unless they are Chambeyronias or Howeas, etc. that require being buried in consistently moist soil. Another exception I've found are Foxtail seeds which are fine germinating outdoors, half covered in soil.

The most important variable I've found in germination is the freshness of the seeds. Some seed arrives from sellers looking dry as a bone. If some from the batch float it doesn't bode well for the group. I much prefer cleaning the seeds myself. Having the fruit on the seeds helps keep them fresh for longer. Get fresh seed!

[DoomsDave]

@Matt in OC, I have a pot of Wodetyias that haven't sprouted and I've buried them. Maybe yank out and uncover?

 

[Matt in OC]

Just now, DoomsDave said:

@Matt in OC, I have a pot of Wodetyias that haven't sprouted and I've buried them. Maybe yank out and uncover?

 

Maybe? I've left mine terribly neglected, virtually sitting on top of soil and gotten a good number to germinate. I'm guessing they need more heat if they're completely buried. 

[DoomsDave]

Just now, Matt in OC said:

Maybe? I've left mine terribly neglected, virtually sitting on top of soil and gotten a good number to germinate. I'm guessing they need more heat if they're completely buried. 

how long?

[Matt in OC]

1 minute ago, DoomsDave said:

how long?

Not sure, but I'd guess 9 months to a year (summer through next spring/summer). They really were neglected as I had some rodents digging in those pots, but some still persisted! 

[DoomsDave]

Just now, Matt in OC said:

Not sure, but I'd guess 9 months to a year (summer through next spring/summer). They really were neglected as I had some rodents digging in those pots, but some still persisted! 

That helps. Mine are about 6 months in. They're still hard, so I'll wait some more.

[iwan]

After getting tired of looking at "dud" seeds in various containers, I throw the seeds and media into my planting beds.  Several seeds have germinated years after being discarded.  Then begins the mystery of identification.

[PalmTreeDude]

Fore me when using a heat pad - DO NOT COOK SEEDS!

[DoomsDave]

6 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Fore me when using a heat pad - DO NOT COOK SEEDS!

Yessir!

[mike in kurtistown]

I have germinated thousands of seeds over the last quarter century mainly using the seedpot method.. Here (east Hawaii Island) is not a hot environment in the winter months (temps often not above 70 deg F all day). Some things (eg. Hyophorbe, Licuala) can take a couple years to germinate even when collected fresh. Back in Florida, I had a "hotbox". I made a cage out of wire fencing, then wrapped the top and sides in plastic sheeting. Got quite hot during the daytime. I performed several experiments using controlled numbers of seeds of several species. The results were that seeds germinated a lot faster in the hotbox, but the overall germination rate was the same when all the germination for both groups was finished. One hotbox problem - it shut out rainfall, which is usually so constant here that we don't even worry about it. In Florida, I put little sprinkler outlets in the hotbox. Also, the plastic sheeting didn't last forever and needed regular changing.

About the Wodyetias. In Florida, Searle Bros. would just put one seed per pot in 1-gal pots. I tried that here with 10 seeds locally collected. First germination was in 9 mos., last (no. 6) was in about a year. Three of them are now planted along my driveway, about 20 ft tall, and I am watching them for signs of flowering.

 

[Kokioula]

Great discussion! I sow thousands of tropical seeds each year and have used various methods, all requiring frequent monitoring. It's so frustrating when they just won't sprout!! In Hawaii it is easy to sow community pots, as long as rats don't steal them, which I fight with screen pot covers or larger enclosures. Baggies are great too if media is sterile and perfect humidity. I always wonder about ways to stimulate germination... as for soaking seed, any special recipes? I have gone from keeping seed pots in shade to a more sunny spot in my nursery, for sun warmth. 

Have had some occasional late sprouters, but not too many:(

Aloha, David

[NatureGirl]

I germinate a lot of seeds. I can tell you 80F is borderline. More hotter more better. The hotter it is the faster most seeds geminate (some exceptions). I've never cooked anything. Temps frequently reach 102F in my GH in summer. That is not too hot for seeds, especially Syagrus and Allagoptera and many others. Some just don't need it that hot to germinated but 90F is better than 80F.

[kinzyjr]

My seed germination experience is primarily with the phoenix, sabal, and washingtonia species, so I don't do anything outlandish.  With these, I find @NatureGirl's advice helpful; more heat.  I have my best overall results between 85F and 95F.  I like to put each seed in its own little starter pot, which is usually something like a solo cup or a cleaned out frappuccino cup.  The seeds I grow either end up planted outdoors in my garden or given to others.

As for the medium, normally just potting soil mixed with perlite.  I have heat mats that I use in the winter, but I prefer to wait until spring because of the mold problems I usually encounter in the winter. 

[Missi]

10 hours ago, iwan said:

After getting tired of looking at "dud" seeds in various containers, I throw the seeds and media into my planting beds.  Several seeds have germinated years after being discarded.  Then begins the mystery of identification.

This!  

[Missi]

Somehow I germinated Salacca zalacca seeds in the 70s (at night) 80s (during the day near the heat lamp on top of my tortoise's enclosure)! 

[Xhoniwaters1]

I managed to bring back about 10 Parajubaea seeds from Ecuador last year. I baggied them up and waited. Waited and Waited. Checked after about 5 months and little tiny bugs decided to make their home on my seeds, seeing them going in and out of the cocoid opening.  After seeing this, I knew they were done. Left them in my shed over winter forgot about them and when it finally warmed up recently I was in there cleaning stuff out and straightening up.  Came across that baggie of Parajubaea seeds. Opened them up to take a peak and to my surprise one had the early stages of germination. That was super cool! Now I will wait another year before I think about tossing them in the compost. 

[Phoenikakias]

I had as a result of an attempted cross pollination of Phoenix loureiroi with pollen from Phoenix theophrasti four normal seeds and many infertile ones. From the four seeds, three had been gathered rather prematurely, namely when fruits were still orange with astringent flesh (mature fruits are black with sweet flesh), a fourth seed, which was the first to be gathered, was in a fully mature (black and soft) fruit. First sprouted, after a fortnight since sowing, two of the prematurely gathered seeds havind a whitish brown endocarp, while the the third of this group rotted. The fourth seed was sitting idle for more than 4 months. But it was rotting neither. So I decided to place it in some water for as long as it needs either to rot or to germinate. After a week or so of soaking, seed still remained idle but healthy. So I decided to rub away the dark, thin layer around endocarp, which was resemblng muck, in the hope that this would enable penetration of moisture in to the endosperm. And after two more weeks of soaking, presto!

[DoomsDave]

Well @NatureGirl, looks like I'll be cranking up the heat a bit.

Any comments from anyone else?

[JubaeaMan138]

I have all of my seeds in a  big styrofoam cooler I gutted a chicken egg incubator and put it on the cooleri put everything in perlite in sterlite shoe boxes and water I can adjust the incubator anywhere from 80 to 95 currently my box runs at around 87 . I have sprouted everything in that box. Right now Dave I have coccothrinax from you brahea and kentiopsis . The only thing that hasn't sprouted yet but I'm sure it will shortly . Also wodyetia seeds I have had excellent results but I scarify the ends  which can be a pain with all fibrous coating . 

[DoomsDave]

43 minutes ago, JubaeaMan138 said:

I have all of my seeds in a  big styrofoam cooler I gutted a chicken egg incubator and put it on the cooleri put everything in perlite in sterlite shoe boxes and water I can adjust the incubator anywhere from 80 to 95 currently my box runs at around 87 . I have sprouted everything in that box. Right now Dave I have coccothrinax from you brahea and kentiopsis . The only thing that hasn't sprouted yet but I'm sure it will shortly . Also wodyetia seeds I have had excellent results but I scarify the ends  which can be a pain with all fibrous coating . 

How do you scarify the ends of the Wodetyia seeds? Do tell, maybe I need to do that with mine!

[JubaeaMan138]

I usually take them and scrape them really hard on the concrete the end that is the wide end not the side  that connects to the stalk the others side .You can also you can peel that fibrous material back at the end and sand the seed down a little not all the way through the shell but just to scratch the surface up. And then soak them for a few days . And then watch them go 

[Rickybobby]

Warmth moisture and patience patience patience take everyone’s advice with a grain of salt but respect everyone advice 

[Moose]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2018‎ ‎7‎:‎59‎:‎46‎, DoomsDave said:

That helps. Mine are about 6 months in. They're still hard, so I'll wait some more.

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