Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg


Moose

Recommended Posts

The obsession to grow Coconut palms in California has always bewildered me. I have a fruiting red Matayan and a fruiting Somoan (Fiji) Dwarf  Coconut Palms that I would tear out immediately and replace with Jubeas if they could survive here. The Coconut palms are nice, but are so common here. Jubea is such a massive stately palm, I envy those who can cultivate them. 

 

Edited by Moose
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 6

Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If my cocos do not make it, I have already made up my mind on Beccariophoenix Alfredii palms.  In fact I have them already lined up and growing in pots.

I do however, have a b. Fenestralis and a b. Alfredii planted in the narrow garden alongside my cocos nucifera. That said, I am taking care of my 5 cocos to the best of my ability.

 

 

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are somewhere where Coconuts are starting to get too common, you are in a good place. :D Jubeas are nice though... If only they were not as picky! 

  • Upvote 1

PalmTreeDude

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

If you are somewhere where Coconuts are starting to get too common, you are in a good place. :D Jubeas are nice though... If only they were not as picky! 

You just never know. Stranger things have happened before. If my hypothesis is right, the toughest stage of growing them in my particular region, is the seedling- juvenile stage.  I believe once the root system develops (starting from a  seedling stage)and we see that first or second ring, they'll survive and probably thrive. I know they will never look as nice as south Florida cocos. But it's worth a try. 

In all fairness, the original reason in acquiring my first coconut seedling (golden malayan dwarf) was by accident. I loved its picture (its mother tree) on ebay.  And not because "nobody else has 'em". Little did I know about California and coconuts... 

 

 

Edited by GottmitAlex

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can always tell when the cali winter is nearing the end by all the coconut threads that light up.

Whilst they are indubitably one of the most useful palms grown for fruit and fibre they don't do it for me.

Factor in how poor the ones look posted on this site in marginal areas and I just mentally shrug.

ce'st la vie

Steve

 

  • Upvote 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, sgvcns said:

I can always tell when the cali winter is nearing the end by all the coconut threads that light up.

Whilst they are indubitably one of the most useful palms grown for fruit and fibre they don't do it for me.

Factor in how poor the ones look posted on this site in marginal areas and I just mentally shrug.

ce'st la vie

Steve

 

Excellent points. Personally I am no fan of the coco fruit.  With the plethora of Queens, canary and washies we've got, it will be a Godsend to have a self cleaning palm. At this stage, I won't mind if the cocos abort the fruit. And that is what probably what will happen during the cold/cool months.  It's that thinly trunked, densely pinnate-leaf look which is quite attractive in my opinion. 

Here again, this doesn't work out I have several Alfredii lined up.  Had I known about the b. Alfredii before I bought my coco seedlings, I would have acquired those instead of the cocos. But as you said : C'est la vie.

 

Edited by GottmitAlex
  • Upvote 1

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jubaea are sweet but Copernicia Fallaensis are the true kings. Jubaea will grow in Florida if you made a large area and backfilled with soil.  I truly believe that nematodes are what kills them like Trachycarpus, not the hot humid weather.  There are several Jubaea living in Texas and Louisiana in areas far hotter and just as humid than Florida and have been there for years without issue.    The one on the San Antonio Riverwalk has been there for 40-50 years and that is no picnic in the summer, but the ones in North Louisiana and NE of Houston are validations enough for me that humidity and heat aren't the problem. 

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Moose, the obsession to grow coconuts here mirrors the obsession some other PalmTalkers have with growing [expletive] Washingtonias, which we take totally (!!!) for granted here.

Jubes, gotta love, but they aren't foolproof here in Cali.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2018‎ ‎7‎:‎47‎:‎24‎, Moose said:

The obsession to grow Coconut palms in California has always bewildered me. I have a fruiting red Matayan and a fruiting Somoan (Fiji) Dwarf  Coconut Palms that I would tear out immediately and replace with Jubeas if they could survive here. The Coconut palms are nice, but are so common here. Jubea is such a massive stately palm, I envy those who can cultivate them. 

 

I could never imagine tearing out healthy Coconut Palms, especially ones that are fruiting under any circumstances!!!  You can have your Jubeas!!!  I'll take Coconut Palms (the most beautiful tree in the world bar none, and the epitome of the Tropics) any day, even in marginal areas like mine!  So, you California Coconut Palm growers, keep it up and don't let any of the naysayers stop you!  Man made Climate Change is very real, and the only benefit of it till we all are destroyed or our lives drastically changed by the catastrophic effects as the storms, droughts, etc. worsen, is that those of us who could never grow Coconut Palms where we live 30 years ago, are now able to!  Take Corpus Christi, Texas for instance.  30 years ago here, you would never even see a Queen Palm, much less a Coconut Palm here.  Now we have big mature fruiting Queen Palms by the thousands here, mature Royal Palms upwards of 40ft. tall, mature Foxtail Palms approaching 20ft. + tall, and yes a few Coconut Palms, which have been known over the last 10 to 12 years to grow to maturity and even have some decent sized nuts on them between bad winters (which are much less severe and much less frequent than they used to be)!  We used to call winters when it gets down to the upper teens to low 20'sF really bad winters on the lower Texas Coast, but now we call any winters with a lowest temp of 28F or below a really bad winter!

John

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/21/2018, 6:47:36, sgvcns said:

I can always tell when the cali winter is nearing the end by all the coconut threads that light up.

Whilst they are indubitably one of the most useful palms grown for fruit and fibre they don't do it for me.

Factor in how poor the ones look posted on this site in marginal areas and I just mentally shrug.

ce'st la vie

Steve

 

Steve, please.... natives don't say "cali" or wear shirts bearing that name.  It is California.  Here is a native Californian who doesn't have any interest in growing a coconut palm.  We have plenty of other species which will look much better here.  Zone pushing with one of the most common palms in the rest of the world just doesn't do it for me.  It's zone pushing with the palms which need a home outside their habitat that has the most appeal to me.  Yeah, I bought into Jeff Marcus's presentation at the So Cal Palm Society about creating backyard havens for endangered palms or those not common outside collectors gardens and habitat.  While its great to have diversity in California, and others who want to push the limits with coconuts, I'll push it with other palms.  I wish my fellow Californian's success in their endeavor to grow Coconuts, but they won't get any competition from me.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Steve, please.... natives don't say "cali" or wear shirts bearing that name.  It is California.  Here is a native Californian who doesn't have any interest in growing a coconut palm.  We have plenty of other species which will look much better here.  Zone pushing with one of the most common palms in the rest of the world just doesn't do it for me.  It's zone pushing with the palms which need a home outside their habitat that has the most appeal to me.  Yeah, I bought into Jeff Marcus's presentation at the So Cal Palm Society about creating backyard havens for endangered palms or those not common outside collectors gardens and habitat.  While its great to have diversity in California, and others who want to push the limits with coconuts, I'll push it with other palms.  I wish my fellow Californian's success in their endeavor to grow Coconuts, but they won't get any competition from me.

I honestly do not believe "competition" exists in California regarding growing cocos nucifera. Truthfully, in California it all boils down to survival of the fittest coco (and this is worldwide) and its circumstances in our region. That's it. 

What I have learned in California. Even if the first 30 miles beginning beachside are a 10B zone is: the Inland 12+ miles will get the needed sunshine the beachside will never get due to its constant clouds/fog and hence perpetual cool winds. Don't get me wrong. There are cool winds inland, but not the shade. So the Sun does do its duty heating up in the 80's while beachside they're in the upper 60's.

Yes both places will never frost nor have snow. But there is a significant difference. 

 

 

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I could never imagine tearing out healthy Coconut Palms, especially ones that are fruiting under any circumstances!!!  You can have your Jubeas!!!  I'll take Coconut Palms (the most beautiful tree in the world bar none, and the epitome of the Tropics) any day, even in marginal areas like mine!  So, you California Coconut Palm growers, keep it up and don't let any of the naysayers stop you!  Man made Climate Change is very real, and the only benefit of it till we all are destroyed or our lives drastically changed by the catastrophic effects as the storms, droughts, etc. worsen, is that those of us who could never grow Coconut Palms where we live 30 years ago, are now able to!  Take Corpus Christi, Texas for instance.  30 years ago here, you would never even see a Queen Palm, much less a Coconut Palm here.  Now we have big mature fruiting Queen Palms by the thousands here, mature Royal Palms upwards of 40ft. tall, mature Foxtail Palms approaching 20ft. + tall, and yes a few Coconut Palms, which have been known over the last 10 to 12 years to grow to maturity and even have some decent sized nuts on them between bad winters (which are much less severe and much less frequent than they used to be)!  We used to call winters when it gets down to the upper teens to low 20'sF really bad winters on the lower Texas Coast, but now we call any winters with a lowest temp of 28F or below a really bad winter!

John

With what you said about winters that used to get to the upper teens and low 20's, I think that was happening more with the unusually cold decade of the 1980's. Interestingly, in my area of the FL Panhandle, the freezes really haven't changed (sans the 1980's or occasional unusual arctic blast) much to make any earth shattering changes in what can be grown here . We still consistently get zone 8b upper teen freezes and even 9a stuff can be a gamble. I agree that humans are probably altering the climate to some degree, but I ponder whether our recent warmer winters are primarily because of that or entirely (or partly) due to a natural climate cycle. I mean, people used to grow citrus up here in the Panhandle for some time in the 1800's during a warmer period. That really couldn't even have been done in the last 10 years with a winter like 2014 or 2010. How cold did you get this past winter? If I remember right you got snow and it was cold enough to kill coconuts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Opal92 said:

With what you said about winters that used to get to the upper teens and low 20's, I think that was happening more with the unusually cold decade of the 1980's. Interestingly, in my area of the FL Panhandle, the freezes really haven't changed (sans the 1980's or occasional unusual arctic blast) much to make any earth shattering changes in what can be grown here . We still consistently get zone 8b upper teen freezes and even 9a stuff can be a gamble. I agree that humans are probably altering the climate to some degree, but I ponder whether our recent warmer winters are primarily because of that or entirely (or partly) due to a natural climate cycle. I mean, people used to grow citrus up here in the Panhandle for some time in the 1800's during a warmer period. That really couldn't even have been done in the last 10 years with a winter like 2014 or 2010. How cold did you get this past winter? If I remember right you got snow and it was cold enough to kill coconuts. 

It isn't just the temperature climate change that is devastating the planet, but the EXTREME DROUGHTS that were once rare, that are now becoming common in South Texas and many other areas around the world, as well as the death of 50% + of the world's coral reefs (and most of the remaining 50% are not in a healthy state!),the acidification of the oceans, the deforestation, especially of tropical rainforests and jungle regions leading to desertification of once lush tropical regions, the rapid melting of the polar ice caps, etc. that are having a cumulative adverse affect on the world's climate and weather patterns!  And these things ARE being caused by mankind through the modern industrial economies!  I am an agricultural scientist, and amateur weather buff and climatologist, and I have been watching DRASTIC changes in weather patterns and overall climate over the last 30 years in North America and around the world!  Normal fluctuations in weather patterns and climate are gradual (over centuries or millenia), and are not drastic sudden changes (barring an Earth changing event like a large meteor or asteroid striking the planet).  However what we have seen over the last 30 years is NOT gradual, but very sudden in terms of time and ARE drastic changes compared to what is normal!  I would honestly say that 20% or less of what we are seeing is natural fluctuations in weather patterns and climate over time, but the other 80%+ IS ENTIRELY MAN MADE!  AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE UNLESS WE AS THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES TO SLOW DOWN AND HOPEFULLY AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE TO AT LEAST SOMEWHAT REVERSE THE HARM WE HAVE DONE!!!  AND YES, THIS DOES MEAN FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORMING THE MODERN CORRUPT ECONOMIES THAT DO NOT BENEFIT THE AVERAGE PERSON AT ALL, BUT RATHER ACT AS A GIANT SUCTION DEVICE SUCKING UP THE MONEY OF US AVERAGE PEOPLE UP TO THE TOP 1% OF THE POPULATION AND THE 10% OUT THERE WHO WHOLE HEARTEDLY GO ALONG WITH THEIR CORRUPT AGENDA!!!

John

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/22/2018, 6:24:18, Zeeth said:

¿por qué no los dos?

Easter_Island_map.thumb.png.17ea54990cb5

Porque la Isla de Pascua es muy chica y apollaria a todos nosotros. Parece que tendremos que estar contento con lo que podemos tener en nuestra parte de mundo. 

  • Upvote 2

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Xerarch said:

Porque la Isla de Pascua es muy chica y apollaria a todos nosotros. Parece que tendremos que estar contento con lo que podemos tener en nuestra parte de mundo. 

Bien dicho!

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

Bien dicho!

Gracia pero claro que quise decir “no” apollaria a todos nosotros. 

  • Upvote 1

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Un poco.

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/21/2018, 5:47:24, Moose said:

The obsession to grow Coconut palms in California has always bewildered me. I have a fruiting red Matayan and a fruiting Somoan (Fiji) Dwarf  Coconut Palms that I would tear out immediately and replace with Jubeas if they could survive here. The Coconut palms are nice, but are so common here. Jubea is such a massive stately palm, I envy those who can cultivate them. 

 

How old was your Fiji dwarf when it first produced fruit? And how tall was the trunk at the time?

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

It isn't just the temperature climate change that is devastating the planet, but the EXTREME DROUGHTS that were once rare, that are now becoming common in South Texas and many other areas around the world, as well as the death of 50% + of the world's coral reefs (and most of the remaining 50% are not in a healthy state!),the acidification of the oceans, the deforestation, especially of tropical rainforests and jungle regions leading to desertification of once lush tropical regions, the rapid melting of the polar ice caps, etc. that are having a cumulative adverse affect on the world's climate and weather patterns!  And these things ARE being caused by mankind through the modern industrial economies!  I am an agricultural scientist, and amateur weather buff and climatologist, and I have been watching DRASTIC changes in weather patterns and overall climate over the last 30 years in North America and around the world!  Normal fluctuations in weather patterns and climate are gradual (over centuries or millenia), and are not drastic sudden changes (barring an Earth changing event like a large meteor or asteroid striking the planet).  However what we have seen over the last 30 years is NOT gradual, but very sudden in terms of time and ARE drastic changes compared to what is normal!  I would honestly say that 20% or less of what we are seeing is natural fluctuations in weather patterns and climate over time, but the other 80%+ IS ENTIRELY MAN MADE!  AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE UNLESS WE AS THE WHOLE HUMAN RACE TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES TO SLOW DOWN AND HOPEFULLY AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE TO AT LEAST SOMEWHAT REVERSE THE HARM WE HAVE DONE!!!  AND YES, THIS DOES MEAN FUNDAMENTALLY TRANSFORMING THE MODERN CORRUPT ECONOMIES THAT DO NOT BENEFIT THE AVERAGE PERSON AT ALL, BUT RATHER ACT AS A GIANT SUCTION DEVICE SUCKING UP THE MONEY OF US AVERAGE PEOPLE UP TO THE TOP 1% OF THE POPULATION AND THE 10% OUT THERE WHO WHOLE HEARTEDLY GO ALONG WITH THEIR CORRUPT AGENDA!!!

John

Woah.. okay. I wasn't trying to attack you. I understand your point. Again, even though I believe natural variations/cycles still has a large part in many significant meteorological and climatological events as of late, I still believe that we indeed are messing up the climate, and I think we should drastically change things to make our footprint as minimal as realistically possible. Those adverse effects occurring on the earth you mentioned I am aware of and it is horrible indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
On 2/21/2018 at 6:35 PM, GottmitAlex said:

You just never know. Stranger things have happened before. If my hypothesis is right, the toughest stage of growing them in my particular region, is the seedling- juvenile stage.  I believe once the root system develops (starting from a  seedling stage)and we see that first or second ring, they'll survive and probably thrive. I know they will never look as nice as south Florida cocos. But it's worth a try. 

In all fairness, the original reason in acquiring my first coconut seedling (golden malayan dwarf) was by accident. I loved its picture (its mother tree) on ebay.  And not because "nobody else has 'em". Little did I know about California and coconuts... 

 

 

Speaking of two rings....

In the side pic you can see both rings. However in the frontal view the husk hides the first ring.  It's almost been three years in thr ground. I imagine since it's in pure sand the husk does not decompose as quickly as if it were in rich soil.

15647116278866294781891428798086.jpg

15647116631447906405658114322039.jpg

Edited by GottmitAlex
  • Like 1

5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/21/2018 at 8:47 PM, Moose said:

The obsession to grow Coconut palms in California has always bewildered me. I have a fruiting red Matayan and a fruiting Somoan (Fiji) Dwarf  Coconut Palms that I would tear out immediately and replace with Jubeas if they could survive here. The Coconut palms are nice, but are so common here. Jubea is such a massive stately palm, I envy those who can cultivate them. 

 

One always wants what one cannot have.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...