New pool with landscaping

[Tropicdoc]

So the pool is being built and I will begin landscaping this in April. This is warm humid end of zone 9a South Louisiana. But just got popped with a 30 year freeze of 17 degrees. Anyway thought I’d bring everyone along for the project. This is my scale drawing with some color rendering. South is up in the photo (back of house faces south) .... more to come.

[Tropicdoc]

On this view I have drainage water and gas lines highlighted and I’ve begun to write in some plant selections. Not sure if y’all can read that.

[Tropicdoc]

Palms chosen so far

livistona chinensis

butia x parajubaea (4)

butia x jubaea x syagrus (4)

butyagrus

trachycarpus martianus 

arenga engleri 

chaemadorea radicalis and microspadix

rhapis excelsea 

sabal bermudana

all of these should be solid in my climate

the following palms may stay in pots... too cold for them

butia x polyandrococos

beccariophoenix alfredii

[Tropicdoc]

Just to start to get an idea...

this is from the terrace looking south

[topwater]

Sabal minor louisiana.  What better place?  Also, I gather from PT that alfies don’t do well in pots, I’ve been admonished for not planting mine a year ago. BTW, you backyard is going to be a knockout whatever you do. 

[topwater]

Okay, blue Chamaerops humulis might be nice.  

[Kailua_Krish]

Id recommend against the Heliconia. I had one and it languished and died. They wont flower in the 9a climate anyways in my experience 

[Sandy Loam]

Wow.  I can't wait to see the photos as the development unfolds.  This could turn out to be a multi-year thread. 

It's a very ambitious project, but will be really nice when it's done.

Based on your selections, I'm guessing that you don't have any Fusarium Wilt spreading around your region -- fortunately!

[avanza]

very nice project 

[Tropicdoc]

On 2/15/2018, 10:00:51, Sandy Loam said:

Wow.  I can't wait to see the photos as the development unfolds.  This could turn out to be a multi-year thread. 

It's a very ambitious project, but will be really nice when it's done.

Based on your selections, I'm guessing that you don't have any Fusarium Wilt spreading around your region -- fortunately!

I don’t even know what fusarium wilt is!

thanks for the rec on the heliconia

so.... that spot is in front of the pool pumps so I need a good green screen that looks “jungly”

maybe bamboo? I worry about how invasive that stuff can get

ive been able to flower heliconia rostrata and “carmasita” several years now but I had to tent them and heat when freezing

im kind of tired of the tenting greenhouse thing

[Tropicdoc]

I could use input for a certain area....

along the west boundary there is a brick wall and I would like a “wild” border about 20-30 feet high to screen my neighbors 3 story house.

im thinking of using loquat trees and ligustrums..... any other ideas?

of course palms and tropical looking stuff in front of those plants.

ill get pictures of the wall as it exists now tomorrow 

[Tropicdoc]

On 2/14/2018, 9:37:33, topwater said:

Sabal minor louisiana.  What better place?  Also, I gather from PT that alfies don’t do well in pots, I’ve been admonished for not planting mine a year ago. BTW, you backyard is going to be a knockout whatever you do. 

Saw a bunch of wild sabal minor today was so close to diggIng some I but was too busy 

[Tropicdoc]

On 2/14/2018, 9:37:33, topwater said:

Sabal minor louisiana.  What better place?  Also, I gather from PT that alfies don’t do well in pots, I’ve been admonished for not planting mine a year ago. BTW, you backyard is going to be a knockout whatever you do. 

Yes I know alfredii is not happy in a pot but I don’t think it would like 17 degrees either! Maybe somebody wants to buy them from me?

[Kailua_Krish]

The non variegated shell ginger and Arenga ryukyuensis are mainly what I used for screening in 9a. Some Rhapis palms too. For taller screening Bamboo is great but keep in mind the large amounts of leaf drop. There is a really nice ligustrum with bright shiney leaves but I forgot the cultivar and it works as a screening shrub or can be trimmed as a tree. 

Oh forgot Cham macrospadix makes a nice screen too and is fast growing

[topwater]

I’m having a bad time with Chamedoreas in general, here’s what’s left of my cat palm after a low of 24F.   I think it was more of a wind issue than absolute cold.  I also lost C. elegans and  seifritzii in what used to be my Chaemadorea Corner.  Your place looks more sheltered than mine,  I hope they do better for you!   

 

 

[Alicante]

Why no CIDP or P.Dactylfera ? They grow nice and require low care. 

[Kailua_Krish]

5 hours ago, topwater said:

I’m having a bad time with Chamedoreas in general, here’s what’s left of my cat palm after a low of 24F.   I think it was more of a wind issue than absolute cold.  I also lost C. elegans and  seifritzii in what used to be my Chaemadorea Corner.  Your place looks more sheltered than mine,  I hope they do better for you!   

 

None of those mentioned have been that cold tolerant for me. I lost all of those in 9a Florida. Try Cham radicalis or macrospadix, much hardier and wont give problems. Both can tolerate sun and shade

[Lou-StAugFL]

I have had heliconia bloom in my St. Augustine, FL 9A garden multiple years, not every year though, and it is only about 1 1/2 feet from the house under the eaves of the house for frost protection.  That seems to be enough protection most years.

 

[Tropicdoc]

19 hours ago, krishnaraoji88 said:

The non variegated shell ginger and Arenga ryukyuensis are mainly what I used for screening in 9a. Some Rhapis palms too. For taller screening Bamboo is great but keep in mind the large amounts of leaf drop. There is a really nice ligustrum with bright shiney leaves but I forgot the cultivar and it works as a screening shrub or can be trimmed as a tree. 

Oh forgot Cham macrospadix makes a nice screen too and is fast growing

Yes you can see on my drawing some use of the tall green shell ginger I love it and is hardy or perennial here. I’m gonna use it to screen the brick side of my garage. Just thought I would mix it up a little as far as a different screen for the pool pumps 

I think I wrote in microspadix in front of the would be heliconia big plus that you say it’s fast growing I didn’t know that 

is arenga ryukensis taller than engleri?

[Tropicdoc]

6 hours ago, Alicante said:

 

[Alicante]

1 minute ago, Tropicdoc said:

6 hours ago, Alicante said:

 

the post is empty buddy 

[Tropicdoc]

6 hours ago, Alicante said:

Why no CIDP or P.Dactylfera ? They grow nice and require low care. 

Someone on palmt all said they wished they had planted less Phoenix due to thorns 

i like dactylifera my neighbor 2 houses down has a pair that are probably 40 feet tall 

I guess I only have a few spots for tall palms because of the live oaks and I chose the cocosoid hybrids

[Tropicdoc]

1 minute ago, Alicante said:

the post is empty buddy 

Yeah sorry see next post for my reply 

btw I love all the input I’m getting

keep it coming!

[Tropicdoc]

6 hours ago, Alicante said:

Why no CIDP or P.Dactylfera ? They grow nice and require low care. 

And I think CIDP is just too big for what I got going on

[Alicante]

1 minute ago, Tropicdoc said:

And I think CIDP is just too big for what I got going on

Oh, it's a pity! If you ever have more space or if you want to plant them in the front garden, you can check Phoenix Reclinatas.

They have a pretty tropical aspect and they will probably survive even the harshest cold waves in your area! If you're able to plant just one, it might even fit near the pool.

True, CIDP gets very big! What about these ones, then?

P. Roebelenii. I seen them growing in a city well inland in my province, city at 650 masl and a 9a area which gets under -4ºC (25F) at least once per year.

[Tropicdoc]

Roebellini would have lots of spots in this landscape but I worry about hardiness 

they are still on the long list for sure

i love reclinata but is not hardy here

[Kailua_Krish]

Arenga ryukyuensis is actually a little shorter but is more hardy. I have a mix of both. Reclinata was mainly a no go for me. Surprisingly enough White Bird of Paradise has done well for me in areas with dense canopy. Even if they freeze back they maintain their large underground root mass and shoot up big leaves later in year

[Tropicdoc]

13 minutes ago, krishnaraoji88 said:

Arenga ryukyuensis is actually a little shorter but is more hardy. I have a mix of both. Reclinata was mainly a no go for me. Surprisingly enough White Bird of Paradise has done well for me in areas with dense canopy. Even if they freeze back they maintain their large underground root mass and shoot up big leaves later in year

All good info will be using white BOP under canopy

[Kailua_Krish]

I can’t see all the names of the plants you are using but Alocasia (odora and California) was a good landscape plant as were Crinums (particularly asiaticum)

[necturus]

Livistona decora! They are the most beautiful of the Livistona grown here and are very vigorous, especially in comparison with the chinensis. With that said, I fell in love with L. chinensis when traveling to Okinawa, so they have a special place in my heart too, they're just slow as molasses. When you see a multi-planting of mature plants it is stunning. Plant them along sago palms and you've replicated a little slice of subtropical Japan.

We are gardening in a similar climate (SW Houston here) and so are looking for similar things. I have not been able to find A. ryukyuensis and found that A. engleri did not fair well in this last freeze (leaves burnt, spear pulled). It was unprotected outside of a sheet. I want to try it again in more protected locations.

I am surprised to hear that A. ryukyuensis stays shorter than A. engleri. In Iriomote (one of the Ryukyu Islands) the native Arenga (presumably ryukyuensis) get quite tall. In my opinion they also look quite a bit different from the Arenga I've seen in the states, but a lot of that may be secondary to cultural conditions (dense forest vs nursery). They also didn't seem to cluster as much over there.

For what it's worth, I think C. radicalis is one of the most attractive palms we can grow. Unfortunately, it is also hard to find live specimens. I am working on growing them from seeds. I was able to buy a large number of C. microspadix seedlings over the last year. They sailed through the freeze whereas some small C. metallica died. I like C. microspadix but find radicalis more attractive.

I recently bought some Paul Schaffer hybrids, including multiple Parajubaea hybrids. I will put them in the ground soon. I also got a couple roebelleni x canary hybrids that are suppose to be hardy into the low 20s. A more robust roebelleni sounds lovely for our area.

Edited February 19, 2018 by necturus

[Tropicdoc]

12 hours ago, krishnaraoji88 said:

I can’t see all the names of the plants you are using but Alocasia (odora and California) was a good landscape plant as were Crinums (particularly asiaticum)

Yes Alocasia  macrorrhiza is on there under canopy to get huge leaves. I saw only "California" at the local box store so I passed on it. "California" stays shorter, right?

[Tropicdoc]

1 hour ago, necturus said:

Livistona decora! They are the most beautiful of the Livistona grown here and are very vigorous, especially in comparison with the chinensis. With that said, I fell in love with L. chinensis when traveling to Okinawa, so they have a special place in my heart too, they're just slow as molasses. When you see a multi-planting of mature plants it is stunning. Plant them along sago palms and you've replicated a little slice of subtropical Japan.

We are gardening in a similar climate (SW Houston here) and so are looking for similar things. I have not been able to find A. ryukyuensis and found that A. engleri did not fair well in this last freeze (leaves burnt, spear pulled). It was unprotected outside of a sheet. I want to try it again in more protected locations.

I am surprised to hear that A. ryukyuensis stays shorter than A. engleri. In Iriomote (one of the Ryukyu Islands) the native Arenga (presumably ryukyuensis) get quite tall. In my opinion they also look quite a bit different from the Arenga I've seen in the states, but a lot of that may be secondary to cultural conditions (dense forest vs nursery). They also didn't seem to cluster as much over there.

For what it's worth, I think C. radicalis is one of the most attractive palms we can grow. Unfortunately, it is also hard to find live specimens. I am working on growing them from seeds. I was able to buy a large number of C. microspadix seedlings over the last year. They sailed through the freeze whereas some small C. metallica died. I like C. microspadix but find radicalis more attractive.

I recently bought some Paul Schaffer hybrids, including multiple Parajubaea hybrids. I will put them in the ground soon. I also got a couple roebelleni x canary hybrids that are suppose to be hardy into the low 20s. A more robust roebelleni sounds lovely for our area.

Thanks for your response! Yes Houston will be similar climate as me. (I used to live in Galveston). Is decora really that different than chinensis? chinensis has not been slow for me. 

I like sagos when they are trunkless, and I have 2 flanking my front entrance to the house.

Arenga engleri made it through 17 degrees under canopy with about 50% leaf burn for me.

Yes- radicalis is awesome. Its still perfectly green for me right now under canopy. Will get more. I have a trunking specimen that I particularly like. I got mine from Jungle Music palms in California.

Where did you get the Phoenix hybrids?

[Kailua_Krish]

Decors is a huge difference and completely different feel than chinienesis. Also I forgot to say I’ve massed chiniensis and underplayed with philodendron selloum in a few places for a tropical border that grows tall. If the chiniensis gets too tall you can cut out the taller trunks eventually      .

i like mixing the different varieties of alocaisa as the sizes work better in different areas. They give a relatively similar feel but some “fit” better in certain locations than others. I use California for a 3’ tall, odora for a 6’ tall, and then the giant varieties (macrorizzhos) weren’t as hardy for me . I know there are several new hybrids from Lari Ann Garner which may be hardy but haven’t tried these out

Id definately recommend Crinum asiaticum. I planted these in my new garden in Hawai’i as well due to their floriferous habits and nice fragrance

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Decora is a pretty tree and will handle teens once every 20 years as well, same with Nitida. Allagoptera would be at home and hardy enough as well.

[Kailua_Krish]

Just now, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Decora is a pretty tree and will handle teens once every 20 years as well, same with Nitida. Allagoptera would be at home and hardy enough as well.

I forgot about nitida too, I only have one but it is a very pretty green leafed palm and very hardy. It was a cold tolerant alternative to Washingtonia/Droopy pritchardia. I had good luck with some Bismarkia though but they were very hit or miss about which ones were cold hardy. 

[topwater]

16 hours ago, Tropicdoc said:

Roebellini would have lots of spots in this landscape but I worry about hardiness 

they are still on the long list for sure

i love reclinata but is not hardy here

I agree about roebellini, lots of them will pull thru, but more than a few were toasted in TC, never thought I’d see that happen.  Acoelorrhaphe wrightii is like a palmate reclinata but much cold hardier, mine didn’t blink this winter. I wasn’t a big L. decora fan before, but I planted a couple a few years ago and I love them now, total different look than chinensis and seems to be a much faster plant. I’d plant both if you have room. Also, I’d take the alfies off your hands, but I have 5 and I’m not convinced they’re going to be long term hardy here either. 

[Zeeth]

Would Trachycarpus princeps grow in your area? 

[necturus]

I bought all my hybrids from Mr. Schaffer. Mine are just seedlings at this point, but the Phoenix hybrids already seem very vigorous. I googled pictures, they look about what you would expect, midway between the two species.

I have a small A. wrightii that was damaged by the last freeze. Even with a sheet on top several of the shoots had spear pull. I’ve doused them with hydrogen peroxide, hope they pull through. I suspect they would’ve done better if they had avoided the freezing rain.

I have seen a Phoenix rupicola planted on the south side of a house that survived this last freeze with minimal damage. There’s mention on here of a guy in Beaumont who is growing one that supposedly looses its leaves in the big freezes but keeps on trucking. I find it the most attractive of the genus, so it might be worth considering.

[Moose]

Mules

[Tropicdoc]

22 hours ago, krishnaraoji88 said: