Brahea pimo - more tender than I thought

[Josue Diaz]

I really thought brahea pimo would be a bit tougher of a palm than it has turned out to be given its tough-as-nails siblings in the brahea family. Here are my two seedlings after a relatively mild winter. Even my wodyetia looks better than these. Will these always be this tender or can I expect a bit of hardiness as they age? 

 

For reference, we never went below 30 degrees this winter and had just a handful of frosty mornings. 

[Xerarch]

Wow that does seem to be tender for a Brahea, though I’ve never specifically looked at cold tolerance of pimo. 

[Hillizard]

Mr. Diaz: Good to see your winter report from the interior of NorCal!  My Braheas (in pots and in ground) got a bit of tip burn too, up here, but otherwise look like they'll all survive. And yes, at least in terms of Sacramento,Calif., this has also been a relatively mild winter. I've left plants out that I normally would overwinter in my sunroom (e.g. a potted Pritchardia). I'm pleased my Ceroxylon amazonicum is still alive under a roof overhang, and pushing a new leaf (albeit extremely sloooowly). And my Butia monosperma, in the same location, is amazingly cold hardy and hasn't lost a leaf all winter. So it looks like I've been lucky with my zone-pushing this winter.

I just got this Malayan dwarf green coconut today (from an Ohio nursery!) and I'll see how long I can keep it in a pot as it grows. Although the label says it's "cold hardy to 34 deg.F," I'll keep it in the sunroom when the temps drop below 40 in the fall. And it will probably need protection from all-day sun in the summer here.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Yikes, thats weak.

[Ben in Norcal]

You have a different problem.  These things take 30 degrees no issues, out in the open, with heavy frost.

Edit: You sure that is pimo?  I don't see much fuzz.  If that's cold damage, my guess is it is something else.

[quaman58]

Josue, I've got a friend that lives in Beaumont & he gets a handful of sub 30 degree nights every year, albeit dry. So far he's not had any damage on his. Could be a combination of factors. Good luck with them; they're great palms.

[Josue Diaz]

7 hours ago, Hillizard said:

Mr. Diaz: Good to see your winter report from the interior of NorCal!  My Braheas (in pots and in ground) got a bit of tip burn too, up here, but otherwise look like they'll all survive. And yes, at least in terms of Sacramento,Calif., this has also been a relatively mild winter. I've left plants out that I normally would overwinter in my sunroom (e.g. a potted Pritchardia). I'm pleased my Ceroxylon amazonicum is still alive under a roof overhang, and pushing a new leaf (albeit extremely sloooowly). And my Butia monosperma, in the same location, is amazingly cold hardy and hasn't lost a leaf all winter. So it looks like I've been lucky with my zone-pushing this winter.

I just got this Malayan dwarf green coconut today (from an Ohio nursery!) and I'll see how long I can keep it in a pot as it grows. Although the label says it's "cold hardy to 34 deg.F," I'll keep it in the sunroom when the temps drop below 40 in the fall. And it will probably need protection from all-day sun in the summer here.

Awesome! So glad to hear of your C. Amazonicum! Mine died a slow death in late summer. That coconut looks great. Was it mailed to you? 

3 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

You have a different problem.  These things take 30 degrees no issues, out in the open, with heavy frost.

Edit: You sure that is pimo?  I don't see much fuzz.  If that's cold damage, my guess is it is something else.

Hm, I got it from a reputable grower frm Lafayette on eBay. I'd be surprised if it weren't the real thing. Maybe I'll try getting a more detailed picture tomorrow. 

[Ben in Norcal]

28 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

Awesome! So glad to hear of your C. Amazonicum! Mine died a slow death in late summer. That coconut looks great. Was it mailed to you? 

Hm, I got it from a reputable grower frm Lafayette on eBay. I'd be surprised if it weren't the real thing. Maybe I'll try getting a more detailed picture tomorrow. 

I know who you are referring to. Should be the real thing. However they are grown in 100% deep shade; are you sure that isn’t sun damage? I still think you have a different problem at those temps.

[Hillizard]

15 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

Awesome! So glad to hear of your C. Amazonicum! Mine died a slow death in late summer. That coconut looks great. Was it mailed to you? 

Hm, I got it from a reputable grower frm Lafayette on eBay. I'd be surprised if it weren't the real thing. Maybe I'll try getting a more detailed picture tomorrow. 

Josue: Hope you get confirmation on your Brahea species; I think we've ordered palms from that same reputable grower. But it's always possible the seeds he got may have been mislabeled.

I can't say my C. amazonicum is actually thriving at this point, but at least it's alive.  I kept it in the tree pot it was shipped in, since I'd read they have a very sparse root system as seedlings that doesn't handle disturbances well. I got the coconut palm from Hirt's Gardens in Ohio, and it may have been their last one. It was a lot less expensive, even incl. shipping, than another well-known online nursery. I gave up looking for an unhusked one in local supermarkets. California phyto regs have become more strict re. the sale of fresh, intact, unsprouted coconuts, in order to prevent (more) harmful insect introductions, which I totally support.

Also, I just snagged a nice Brahea moorei tonight via a seller on eBay (who's probably a Palmtalker!). That species shouldn't have any problems with cold weather in interior NorCal! 

[Josue Diaz]

38 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I know who you are referring to. Should be the real thing. However they are grown in 100% deep shade; are you sure that isn’t sun damage? I still think you have a different problem at those temps.

They were planted out last summer. They grew in that spot all year so it couldn't be sun damage. I noticed the dark leaf coloration after the first frost, then, after a few frosts the leaves started drooping. 

36 minutes ago, Hillizard said:

Josue: Hope you get confirmation on your Brahea species; I think we've ordered palms from that same reputable grower. But it's always possible the seeds he got may have been mislabeled.

I can't say my C. amazonicum is actually thriving at this point, but at least it's alive.  I kept it in the tree pot it was shipped in, since I'd read they have a very sparse root system as seedlings that doesn't handle disturbances well. I got the coconut palm from Hirt's Gardens in Ohio, and it may have been their last one. It was a lot less expensive, even incl. shipping, than another well-known online nursery. I gave up looking for an unhusked one in local supermarkets. California phyto regs have become more strict re. the sale of fresh, intact, unsprouted coconuts, in order to prevent (more) harmful insect introductions, which I totally support.

Also, I just snagged a nice Brahea moorei tonight via a seller on eBay (who's probably a Palmtalker!). That species shouldn't have any problems with cold weather in interior NorCal! 

Nice! I have a small Moorei also. You should post some photos of yours!

[Josue Diaz]

51 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

I know who you are referring to. Should be the real thing. However they are grown in 100% deep shade; are you sure that isn’t sun damage? I still think you have a different problem at those temps.

 Maybe wet conditions aren't favorable for this species?

[Ben in Norcal]

8 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

 Maybe wet conditions aren't favorable for this species?

Mine sailed through last year's very wet winter no issues, but are in well drained soil with high sand content.  Too many organics in your soil?  Sorry I can't advise precisely what is going on, but it's definitely not just cold damage at those temps, based on my experience.  They should push through at any rate.

[Josue Diaz]

15 hours ago, quaman58 said:

Josue, I've got a friend that lives in Beaumont & he gets a handful of sub 30 degree nights every year, albeit dry. So far he's not had any damage on his. Could be a combination of factors. Good luck with them; they're great palms.

 

16 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

You have a different problem.  These things take 30 degrees no issues, out in the open, with heavy frost.

Edit: You sure that is pimo?  I don't see much fuzz.  If that's cold damage, my guess is it is something else.

Here are closer pics showing a bit of fuzz. 

 

[Hillizard]

13 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

They were planted out last summer. They grew in that spot all year so it couldn't be sun damage. I noticed the dark leaf coloration after the first frost, then, after a few frosts the leaves started drooping. 

Nice! I have a small Moorei also. You should post some photos of yours!

Since you asked, here's one of the pictures from the eBay seller of the Brahea moorei I bought yesterday. It's been grown outdoors in SoCal and will be shipped in its pot, so it shouldn't have too much trouble acclimating to this area after I plant it on my palm berm. At least it's got a few years of growth already, so the new leaves will be silvery sooner. 

[daxin]

I have two Brahea pimo from the same vendor. Last year I planted one out in my neighbor’s front yard and it got whacked to the ground by their maintenance gardener who must have thought that it was a Washingtonia volunteer. It is growing back slowly in its full sun position. The other one is doing much better in a 5g container in half shade. Maybe this palm just prefers part shade and moist conditions when young.

[Ben in Norcal]

39 minutes ago, daxin said:

I have two Brahea pimo from the same vendor. Last year I planted one out in my neighbor’s front yard and it got whacked to the ground by their maintenance gardener who must have thought that it was a Washingtonia volunteer. It is growing back slowly in its full sun position. The other one is doing much better in a 5g container in half shade. Maybe this palm just prefers part shade and moist conditions when young.

If you have ever been to this vendor, you’d note that his palms never see one ray of sunlight until you get them home. They just need to adjust.

[Ben in Norcal]

One of mine in the fading light.

[Josh-O]

I hope it makes it. Just think Josh. This has been a very mild winter. Imagine what will happen when a real cold front hits

[Ben in Norcal]

4 minutes ago, Josh-O said:

I hope it makes it. Just think Josh. This has been a very mild winter. Imagine what will happen when a real cold front hits

Not cold damage Josh, there's noooooooo way

[Josh-O]

Just now, Ben in Norcal said:

Not cold damage Josh, there's noooooooo way

looks like frost damage to me. frost can form at 36F

[Ben in Norcal]

Just now, Josh-O said:

looks like frost damage to me. frost can form at 36F

Something not jiving here.  Mine take heavy frost, multiple consecutive nights, so thick you need to scrape your car window for like 15 minutes, with zero damage.  These things are hardy as heck...totally in the open and frozen solid in my yard, years past.  

[Josue Diaz]

Yeah,  that's why I was so surprised Ben! Everything i read about them said they'd handle frost. And I can say confidently that this damage began showing up after the first frost.

 

Josh,  these will have an overhead canopy in a few years so maybe that'll help.

[Josh-O]

6 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Something not jiving here.  Mine take heavy frost, multiple consecutive nights, so thick you need to scrape your car window for like 15 minutes, with zero damage.  These things are hardy as heck...totally in the open and frozen solid in my yard, years past.  

agreed 100%

[Josh-O]

1 minute ago, Josue Diaz said:

Yeah,  that's why I was so surprised Ben! Everything i read about them said they'd handle frost. And I can say confidently that this damage began showing up after the first frost.

 

Josh,  these will have an overhead canopy in a few years so maybe that'll help.

do you have a picture of what it looked like before it got roached?

[Ben in Norcal]

2 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

Yeah,  that's why I was so surprised Ben! Everything i read about them said they'd handle frost. And I can say confidently that this damage began showing up after the first frost.

 

Josh,  these will have an overhead canopy in a few years so maybe that'll help.

Maybe because they have never seen frost?  They are under very heavy cover so they'll have seen neither frost nor sun.

[Josh-O]

18 minutes ago, Josh-O said:

do you have a picture of what it looked like before it got roached?

?

[Josh-O]

are you sure its Pimo?

[Josue Diaz]

Yeah,  I think I do. Lemme go search for it

1 hour ago, Josh-O said:

do you have a picture of what it looked like before it got roached?

 

[daxin]

@Ben in NorcalWhat you said makes sense. I have been to the nursery and remember how shaded the seedling area were. I was shown several perfectly grown  Chamaedorea tuerckheimii that seems to be in too much sun and heat near all the fancy Araucarias, but I guess it is still quite shaded so the tuercks can grow well

[Josue Diaz]

April 2017

 

 

[Josue Diaz]

June 2017

November 2017

[redgate]

Looks a bit too young to be out in the full sun, this would be one of the least tolerant of full sun of any of my seed cultivated Brahea species, i mostly have B pimo in semi shaded morning sun after several attempts to kill them with high exposure.

[Josue Diaz]

12 minutes ago, redgate said:

Looks a bit too young to be out in the full sun, this would be one of the least tolerant of full sun of any of my seed cultivated Brahea species, i mostly have B pimo in semi shaded morning sun after several attempts to kill them with high exposure.

Yeah I'd agree with you on that. It doesn't explain why they burned from frost though. They looked a bit stressed from too much exposure in November just before the frosts, but only the the oldest fronds had sun damage. Fast forward to today and every frond is burned. The leaf burn that's evident now happened in December and January with a couple of nights of frost. Maybe they're tender to frost and sun at this age?

[Josh-O]

it should come back soon.

 

sucky set back given these are sloooooooow growers.

[Fusca]

What is odd to me is that the younger seedling fared better than the one with palmate leaves - regardless of what caused the burn.  If the cause was the frost, did those succulents provide the younger one some extra heat??  Or the older one is just a wimp compared to the other?  They look to be growing in the same conditions otherwise.

[Josue Diaz]

After one night of 35F and very light frost,  I had two damaged plants - brugmansia and brahea pimo. The leaves are translucent green.

[Ben in Norcal]

What a shame.  It will grow out of it.  Again, these have never seen sun nor frost, so I'd imagine they'd fair better (as do mine) once acclimated.

[Ben in Norcal]

Here’s mine that is out in the open, after multiple 30 degree freezes this week.

 

[Josue Diaz]

On 2/6/2018, 8:18:26, Josue Diaz said:

April 2017

 

 

 

On 2/6/2018, 8:20:23, Josue Diaz said:

June 2017

November 2017

 

Both of these grew out of that damage. Let's see how they do this time around in winter. 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Josue Diaz

[Josue Diaz]

Just noticed spotting on Pimo again. Either pimo is super tropical, or my plants are not Brahea pimo. We haven't been below 40F.