Palms on the Eastern Shore of Virginia?

[PalmTreeDude]

Other than the occasional Windmill Palm, has anyone seen any other palm are the Eastern Shore of Virginia? The majority of the peninsula is 8a, so you would think there would be some palmettos somewhere, but where?!

[RedRabbit]

The southern Eastern Shore does have a nice microclimate. I saw a Wunderground station in Cape Charles had a low this year of 13.3f... That's cold, but not all that bad when you consider a lot of the northern gulf coast saw sub-20f temps too. Obviously your options are limited with that kind of cold, but you'd think more would be capable of growing there than windmill palms.

[Xerarch]

There are a lot of Sabal palmetto in Virginia Beach, which I always kind of assume was just about their northern limit on the east coast.  Having said that I would be surprised if there weren’t a few stragglers on the peninsula.   

[PalmatierMeg]

Back in the 60s, 70s & 80s I don't remember ever seeing Sabals of any species on or near VA Beach, Norfolk, Chesapeake etc during my travels to and through that area, at least in populated areas and along major roads. Nor, on numerous beach vacations to the Outer Banks of NC from the late 50s (no interstates) to the mid-70s, did I ever see any Sabals growing on or near any beaches. If I had at some point, I'm sure I would remember because I enjoy watching scenery and would have noticed anomalous vegetation such as palmate palms. So I'm sure most of these now-common Sabals have been introduced into local landscaping in the past 30-40 years. That isn't to say that in the distant past Sabals haven't found their way into the impenetrable swamps and wetlands that have existed on coastal VA and NC for millennia and may now be protected. I'm almost sure they have. And I expect most of those Sabals are likely some form of S. minor although I would never count out S. palmetto. But until someone is willing and able to fund a grueling exploration of vast areas like Dismal Swamp we'll never know for sure.

[PalmTreeDude]

16 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Back in the 60s, 70s & 80s I don't remember ever seeing Sabals of any species on or near VA Beach, Norfolk, Chesapeake etc during my travels to and through that area, at least in populated areas and along major roads. Nor, on numerous beach vacations to the Outer Banks of NC from the late 50s (no interstates) to the mid-70s, did I ever see any Sabals growing on or near any beaches. If I had at some point, I'm sure I would remember because I enjoy watching scenery and would have noticed anomalous vegetation such as palmate palms. So I'm sure most of these now-common Sabals have been introduced into local landscaping in the past 30-40 years. That isn't to say that in the distant past Sabals haven't found their way into the impenetrable swamps and wetlands that have existed on coastal VA and NC for millennia and may now be protected. I'm almost sure they have. And I expect most of those Sabals are likely some form of S. minor although I would never count out S. palmetto. But until someone is willing and able to fund a grueling exploration of vast areas like Dismal Swamp we'll never know for sure.

When I go back to the VA Beach area, I will keep my eye out for possible native Sabal minor, especially in the southern swampy agricultural parts. 

[Brad Mondel]

Driving through Virginia Beach you can see Palmettos, windmills and some dead Butia trunks. Butia really should be rated zone 8b in my opinion. 

[Alex High]

On 2/4/2018 at 7:01 PM, PalmTreeDude said:

Other than the occasional Windmill Palm, has anyone seen any other palm are the Eastern Shore of Virginia? The majority of the peninsula is 8a, so you would think there would be some palmettos somewhere, but where?!

There are MANY palms around Cape Charles, Virginia, including some palmettos and even big pindos! Here are some:

Two Sabal palmetto on the corner of Kings Bay Drive and Colony Drive in Cape Charles:

Aerial shot of the palmettos:

There is a house with a big pindo and at least two Sabal minor right near the palmettos, on Sunset Boulevard:

Google Street View - Pindo can be seen in front of the house's lower left window:

Found this nice pindo in a yard that also has lots of Sabal minor:

Additionally, there are several Sabal minor in Cape Charles.

Some small S. minor:

Lots of Sabal minor in this yard - same home as the second pindo:

Then there are also LOTS of windmills around town, especially in the Historic District. I would go so far as to say that Cape Charles is the hardy palm capital of the Eastern Shore/DelMarVa peninsula. Nice to see that they actually plant palms that have a chance of surviving there, unlike Ocean City and Rehoboth, who waste so much money every year on planting non-hardy tropical palms and letting them die. Here are some of the many windmills around Cape Charles:

Windmills at a gazebo by the ocean:

Windmill at an inn in the Cape Charles Historic District:

\

Some small windmills:

Another small Trachy:

Another small-ish one:

Two windmills, one of which is HUGE at a B&B in the Historic District:

Another good sized Trachy:

Edited January 27, 2021 by PalmsUSA

[PalmTreeDude]

4 hours ago, PalmsUSA said:

There are MANY palms around Cape Charles, Virginia, including some palmettos and even big pindos! Here are some:

Two Sabal palmetto on the corner of Kings Bay Drive and Colony Drive in Cape Charles:

Aerial shot of the palmettos:

There is a house with a big pindo and at least two Sabal minor right near the palmettos, on Sunset Boulevard:

Google Street View - Pindo can be seen in front of the house's lower left window:

Found this nice pindo in a yard that also has lots of Sabal minor:

Additionally, there are several Sabal minor in Cape Charles.

Some small S. minor:

Lots of Sabal minor in this yard - same home as the second pindo:

Then there are also LOTS of windmills around town, especially in the Historic District. I would go so far as to say that Cape Charles is the hardy palm capital of the Eastern Shore/DelMarVa peninsula. Nice to see that they actually plant palms that have a chance of surviving there, unlike Ocean City and Rehoboth, who waste so much money every year on planting non-hardy tropical palms and letting them die. Here are some of the many windmills around Cape Charles:

Windmills at a gazebo by the ocean:

Windmill at an inn in the Cape Charles Historic District:

\

Some small windmills:

Another small Trachy:

Another small-ish one:

Two windmills, one of which is HUGE at a B&B in the Historic District:

Another good sized Trachy:

Now this is what I was looking for! Thanks for posting these pictures. 

[DoomsDave]

45 years ago my family and I went to the eastern shore and also to Chincoteague island.

In Virginia Beach or just south of it I saw a 30 foot tall Butea. It was blue gray and gorgeous and the sight hasn’t left me for 45+ years.

I’ll bet they’ll make it on the eastern shore too.

Maybe a Buteagrus too.

[RedRabbit]

9 hours ago, PalmsUSA said:

There are MANY palms around Cape Charles, Virginia, including some palmettos and even big pindos! Here are some:

Two Sabal palmetto on the corner of Kings Bay Drive and Colony Drive in Cape Charles:

Aerial shot of the palmettos:

There is a house with a big pindo and at least two Sabal minor right near the palmettos, on Sunset Boulevard:

Google Street View - Pindo can be seen in front of the house's lower left window:

Found this nice pindo in a yard that also has lots of Sabal minor:

Additionally, there are several Sabal minor in Cape Charles.

Some small S. minor:

Lots of Sabal minor in this yard - same home as the second pindo:

Then there are also LOTS of windmills around town, especially in the Historic District. I would go so far as to say that Cape Charles is the hardy palm capital of the Eastern Shore/DelMarVa peninsula. Nice to see that they actually plant palms that have a chance of surviving there, unlike Ocean City and Rehoboth, who waste so much money every year on planting non-hardy tropical palms and letting them die. Here are some of the many windmills around Cape Charles:

Windmills at a gazebo by the ocean:

Windmill at an inn in the Cape Charles Historic District:

\

Some small windmills:

Another small Trachy:

Another small-ish one:

Two windmills, one of which is HUGE at a B&B in the Historic District:

Another good sized Trachy:

Thanks for sharing! That’s the very last vestige of the tropics on the east coast. 

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 2/4/2018 at 7:18 PM, RedRabbit said:

The southern Eastern Shore does have a nice microclimate. I saw a Wunderground station in Cape Charles had a low this year of 13.3f... That's cold, but not all that bad when you consider a lot of the northern gulf coast saw sub-20f temps too. Obviously your options are limited with that kind of cold, but you'd think more would be capable of growing there than windmill palms.

Yeah I'd say sabal palmetto is bulletproof there, probably even in Chicoteague and Crisfield, in a sheltered spot facing the ocean.

[SEVA]

The queens look decent and it’s almost March.

Northampton County, VA

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 2/23/2021 at 8:14 PM, SEVA said:

The queens look decent and it’s almost March.

Northampton County, VA

Where is that? They should be winterized.

[SEVA]

9 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Where is that? They should be winterized.

It’s near the southern tip of the eastern shore. I can’t remember what it was called, but I think it’s not too far from the welcome center. They weren’t wrapped at all. Even the Phoenix roebelenii(?) look like they have some green near the meristem.

[palmsOrl]

On 2/23/2021 at 8:14 PM, SEVA said:

The queens look decent and it’s almost March.

Northampton County, VA

Those survived winter in Virginia???

[Dave-Vero]

Norfolk Botanical Garden has done well at featuring hardy palms.  BTW, they're working on a new conservatory.  I expect it'll be oriented toward education, but it should be a grander display of tropicals than what they have now.  

[SEVA]

10 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

Those survived winter in Virginia???

They have so far, which surprised me. I don’t know how long they’ve been there, but I first saw them last fall and figured they were just planted as annuals. Which is why I was surprised to see all that green on the queens this month. I tried looking up the weather history for the closest weather station near there, but only found history for one about 5 miles north of the palms. The lowest temperature recorded there this winter so far is 27°F. That’s warmer than I’ve recorded farther south.

[SEVA]

10 hours ago, Dave-Vero said:

Norfolk Botanical Garden has done well at featuring hardy palms.  BTW, they're working on a new conservatory.  I expect it'll be oriented toward education, but it should be a grander display of tropicals than what they have now.  

That’ll be nice to see when it’s finished. I’ve seen a few not so common palms planted outside there like Butia eriospatha, Brahea armata, and Phoenix theophrasti. There were a few cycads I hadn’t heard of as well.

[SEVA]

Found the queen palms. Not sure if they’re the same ones. I can’t see the date (if there is one) from my phone.

Google Earth Link

https://earth.app.goo.gl/?apn=com.google.earth&isi=293622097&ius=googleearth&link=https%3a%2f%2fearth.google.com%2fweb%2f%4037.1381421,-75.96679291,10.35108566a,0d,32.07263205y,260.00991518h,88.84767237t,0r%2fdata%3dIhoKFjh2ZWZFbVdFeWNzVkJaSzZTSVEwNlEQAg

[EastCanadaTropicals]

The Cape Charles Palmettos are not looking so good:

[SEVA]

Chincoteague, VA

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, SEVA said:

Chincoteague, VA

You gotta be kidding me. A Washingtonia in Chincoteague???

[NCFM]

3 hours ago, SEVA said:

Chincoteague, VA

Wow! You should make a post for this in Cold Hardy Palms. That may well be the northern most trunking washy on the east coast 

[RedRabbit]

6 hours ago, SEVA said:

Chincoteague, VA

Do you know where this is on Chincoteague? I’d like to check out streetview to see how long it has been there. I’m kind of in shock a Z9 palm has managed to survive there. 

[RedRabbit]

On 2/23/2021 at 8:14 PM, SEVA said:

The queens look decent and it’s almost March.

Northampton County, VA

By the way, amazing find on these queens too. I knew Cape Charles had a great microclimate, but wow! These are marginal 400 miles south so it’s really something they’ve survived even 1 winter there.

Edited August 18, 2021 by RedRabbit

[SEVA]

2 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Do you know where this is on Chincoteague? I’d like to check out streetview to see how long it has been there. I’m kind of in shock a Z9 palm has managed to survive there. 

Google Earth Link

https://earth.app.goo.gl/xc9Bd3

 

There are more palms to the right of the palm in the photo, but of course I’m not sure how long they’ve been there. I’m wondering if maybe they were planted as annuals and maybe happened to survive? There’s another place across the street with more Washingtonias, which I can post photos of if desired. When I looked on the current street view it shows Washingtonias at the place in the photo, but the place across the street shows queens and coconuts (I only saw Washingtonias there). 

[The Germinator]

Anyone try a Jubaea yet? That might be the ticket for that microclimate. Are there needle palms growing there? They might work. 

[SEVA]

2 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

By the way, amazing find on these queens too. I knew Cape Charles had a great microclimate, but wow! These are marginal 400 miles south so it’s really something they’ve survived even 1 winter there.

Here are the queens from the end of June. It’ll be interesting to see how long they survive.

[Valhallalla]

On 2/27/2021 at 10:37 AM, SEVA said:

Found the queen palms. Not sure if they’re the same ones. I can’t see the date (if there is one) from my phone.

Google Earth Link

https://earth.app.goo.gl/?apn=com.google.earth&isi=293622097&ius=googleearth&link=https%3a%2f%2fearth.google.com%2fweb%2f%4037.1381421,-75.96679291,10.35108566a,0d,32.07263205y,260.00991518h,88.84767237t,0r%2fdata%3dIhoKFjh2ZWZFbVdFeWNzVkJaSzZTSVEwNlEQAg

Wow, blast from the past! I stayed at this place a few times as a kid back in the '70s when it was America House Motor Inn and Restaurant. My family would drive from NJ to vacation in Buxton, NC and used this place as a stopover a bit more than half way. I don't remember all the wonderful features described in the postcard except for the swimming pool and walking down to the "beach" on Chesapeake Bay. I also don't remember any palms. Thanks for reviving my fading memory.

https://www.cardcow.com/298036/cape-charles-virginia-america-house-motor-inn-restaurant/

[RedRabbit]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:33 PM, SEVA said:

Chincoteague, VA

 

On 8/17/2021 at 11:34 PM, SEVA said:

Here are the queens from the end of June. It’ll be interesting to see how long they survive.

Any chance we can get an update on these? 

[SEVA]

On 7/29/2022 at 9:49 PM, RedRabbit said:

 

Any chance we can get an update on these? 

Unfortunately, I haven’t had a chance to visit the eastern shore since. If I do, I’ll try to post an update.

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, SEVA said:

Unfortunately, I haven’t had a chance to visit the eastern shore since. If I do, I’ll try to post an update.

Thanks! I’d love to think Zone 9 palms are somewhat viable there. I was really surprised to see those queens in Cape Charles so I’m curious how long they’ll be able to survive.

Edited July 31, 2022 by RedRabbit

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

That pretty amazing finding those queens a s washys.   Any updates???

[ZPalms]

washingtonia world domination 😍

Edited November 12, 2022 by ZPalms

[Little Tex]

15 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

That pretty amazing finding those queens a s washys.   Any updates???

They must protect at least the queens, because the street view shows them being there before 2018 

[SEVA]

On 11/12/2022 at 2:27 AM, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

That pretty amazing finding those queens a s washys.   Any updates???

Unfortunately, I still haven’t had the chance to make a visit. 
 

 

16 hours ago, Little Tex said:

They must protect at least the queens, because the street view shows them being there before 2018 

I can’t speak for the winters prior to 2020-2021, but I never saw them protected the winter of 2020-2021. I suppose it’s possible the queens prior to 2018 were different plantings.

[bar]

I haven't been to VA Beach since the mid 90's but I recall a very healthy Butia capitata growing somewhere around there. I think this palm would be quite happy in VA Beach area, especially as the climate warms.  As long as VA Beach doesn't become a much bigger beach.

 

Bruce