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Porto Santo island coconut


Stelios

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On our trip to Porto Santo island today, I took a photo of this coconut just out of the center of the Porto Santo town. Even though is more north than Madeira at 33.5 degrees north, it seems they can grow nice coconuts there.

2018-01-03 21.28.59.jpg

Edited by Stelios
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Hello Stelios,

Thanks for the picture!

Porto Santo costal zone is probably overall a bit warmer than the airport station located at 80 m elevation (262.467 ft) and a bit inland.

Porto Santo coast is probably also a zone 12, so that helps, in fact the lowest recorded temperature for the airport, I believe to be warmer than Key West lowest recorded temperature.

If you went yesterday to Porto Santo you missed the heatwave in Funchal right? Yesterday they had 25.6 C (78 F) !

Hope you enjoyed Madeira!

Edited by Cluster
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Hi Pedro

Porto Santo was also hot. And today Funchal it still feels like a heat wave. They should plant more tropicals in Porto Santo. For sure we enjoy Madeira. It's a paradise!

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Hi Stelios!

You should share some pictures of Porto Sando and Madeira on Madeira thread or here or something :). 

I forgot to tell you if you want I can tell you where all coconuts are located on the island, some of them look better than the Marina ones, like the ones from Paul do Mar or Madalena do Mar.

I am not there so I can't comment on the heatwave, but at least today looking at Funchal Lido's official Station the temperatures seem to be normal for a sunny day in January/February and the relative humidity is normal midday at 64% (unlike yesterday which reached a low of 8% due to the sahara winds).

 

Edited by Cluster
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Hi Pedro

For sure I will post photos on both threads. As for the coconuts is a bit difficult with my wife and daughter for palm hunting but I found this small one in a parking near Lido promenade with other beautiful palms. We'll have a car tomorrow for 3 days and we'll try to pass from these places you mention. We'll came back to Madeira to explore more.

As for the weather if today is the normal temp then they have to plant more coconuts.

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Alright later on I will PM you with most of the Coconuts. 

I know exactly where you are, I never show that coconut because it is always like that! It has been that small for 3 years, it seems to be overcluttered there:)

Yes the temperatures are a bit higher when it is sunny (it is not always sunny though, just normal sunshine hours for a typical winter in the mediterranenan), the temperatures are usally around 18 and 23 there (20+ average) during the coldest month, seeing it is a sunny day expecting a 20-22 is normal :).

Nice pictures!

 

Edited by Cluster
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Nice pics!

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Larry Shone in wet and sunny north-east England!  Zone9 ish

Tie two fish together and though they have two tails they cannot swim <>< ><>

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Pedro, I believe the small coconut could recover with the proper care.

I also like other palms here especially the kentias.

2018-01-04 19.37.09.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great pics Stelios! Those Funchal gardens look very nice.

On 4/1/2018 12:06:11, Cluster said:

Hello Stelios,

Thanks for the picture!

Porto Santo costal zone is probably overall a bit warmer than the airport station located at 80 m elevation (262.467 ft) and a bit inland.

Porto Santo coast is probably also a zone 12, so that helps, in fact the lowest recorded temperature for the airport, I believe to be warmer than Key West lowest recorded temperature.

If you went yesterday to Porto Santo you missed the heatwave in Funchal right? Yesterday they had 25.6 C (78 F) !

Hope you enjoyed Madeira!

Porto Santo is on the 11a/11b hardiness zone, probably the mild coastal areas can be classified as 11b. :)

Funchal has average highs of 19.7ºC in January and February, Porto Santo seems to have in January 17.9ºC with 13.8ºC lows which are even warmer than the winter lows in Funchal! (if this data is correct: https://www.dwd.de/DWD/klima/beratung/ak/ak_085240_kt.pdf) Probably the soil is also pretty mild so I think Porto Santo's climate is suitable for coconuts across the coastline. Do you know anyone living there? It's worth a try! And yep, i'm sure about that too, I think as well that the southern coast of Porto Santo never had a low under 5ºC so that makes their historical low warmer than in Key West. :D Florida gets harsh cold spells tho. 

 

Edited by Alicante

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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Most years the record low of Porto Santo is above 10 C and that is in the airport which is at 80 m elevation and a bit far from the sea. So if the airport is a zone 12 (average winter lowest low above 10), then near the beach where that coconut is, it will be even warmer. Funchal station is not very good with lows(a zone 12 as well), but Funchal/lido, Porto Moniz (north coastal station) and Lugar de Baixo are all warmer zone 12 in terms of average lows.

Edited by Cluster
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26 minutes ago, Cluster said:

Most years the record low of Porto Santo is above 10 C and that is in the airport which is at 80 m elevation and a bit far from the sea. So if the airport is a zone 12 (average winter lowest low above 10), then near the beach where that coconut is, it will be even warmer. Funchal station is not very good with lows, but Funchal/lido, Porto Moniz (north coastal station) and Lugar de Baixo, are all warmer in terms of average lows.

From where do you take those temps? In the gardening maps I've seen it's 11b. :) the average low for January is 13.8 and for February is 13.4ºC, in overall it should be 11b. Take a look also at the averages I posted above, the airport seems to be in the upper 11a/11b zone but it's older data, it's probably 11b nowadays.

https://www.tutiempo.net/clima/ws-85240.html I found the data for the airport (uses IPMA airport station as the source) it's in the middle of 11b if you sum the lowest temps during the last 30 years. Btw the south coast must be milder so the warmest spots are probably on the 11b/12a zone. Porto Santo in overall is very mild so there are not much differences, same as in the Azores? The warm oceanic currents keep Porto Santo very mild year round, still 11b is impressive for 33ºN!

Edited by Alicante

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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Those garden maps are probably driven by models and not actual data, models do not always work very well compared to the real values, Porto Santo should be way cooler at that latitude (in terms of lows) and thus models reflect that. Tutiempo is not reliable many times and for this case it is not reliable again, I searched the station values and it reports negative temperatures sometimes as the lowest temperature of the year (which is impossible). That station is also at a higher elevation than the IPMA current station, so again not compliant with real data:(. If there was a beach station where the coco is located, it would show warmer values, but even the airport rarely falls below 10 each year.

I do not understand why, but Porto Moniz in the north coast has higher lows than Funchal, it is a recent station with perhaps 3 or 4 years, but it is clearly above Funchal. It is at a lower elevation than Funchal station and that explains a bit but not all:D.

Azores coastal areas are zone 11B.

 

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In those last 10 years, the lowest minimum temp in Porto Santo went under 10ºC during 9 years, only 1 year had a lowest minimum above 10ºC (10.1ºC)

In the past 7 years, they had twice temps under 8ºC, one of 7.6ºC and another of 7ºC in 2011. Still, it's very mild and impressive for the latitude. I've calcullated the lowest temps in the last 30 years and it is a straight 11b zone, It's strange because those past 10 years had lower records than the past 10-20 years and these even less than the past 20-30 years. :D Anyways, it's a great climate and impressive for it's latitude. I just wanted to point it's not within the 12a area. :)

Nice work on those pics ! I would like a lot to see more pictures about palms in Madeira and Porto Santo as both are islands with much potential on them. ;)

Edited by Alicante

I live in Altea, Spain 38°34'N 0º03'O. USDA zone 11a. Coastal microclimate sheltered by mountains. 
The coconuts shown in my avatar are from the Canary Islands, Spain ! :)

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Hello Adam, unfortunately, my old hard drive died , and there I had the official values for the last 3 years. The only thing I can tell you is that the values for Funchal in tutiempo do not match the real values (as I have shown you in the past:P) and thus the values of Funchal always looked low. In the case of Porto Santo I am not as familiar, but tutiempo is showing freezing temperatures (for the years of 70) which is impossible:P. I also compared the values of December 2017 with mine and tutiempo does not always show the right ones, so again I do not trust tutiempo. In any case I spoke about the coastal area (the airport is 2 to 1.5 km from the ocean so not coastal!) where the coconut is located. This area is less than 100 m from water and unlike the airport (located at 80 m elevation ) this is located at 10 m elevation or so, hence why I said probably, we do not have a station to prove that but most likely it is a zone 12. 

Madeira climate I am more familiar with and the north and south coasts are zone 12 at low elevations. The closest official station from the sea is Funchal/Lido one which scores the highest lows at 25 m elevation and also Porto Moniz (north coast) which is at 35 m elevation.

I do agree with you regarding the potential of course. I posted some updates with Stelios on Madeira thread. Unfortunately I do not go as often to Porto Santo but I will take the camera with me for sure the next time I do go there.

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I would say long term survival and unprotected, Porto Santo is the furthermost place thus far where coconuts can do just fine with just irrigation, maybe they will do better there than north coast Madeira as it gets more sunshine.

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They could plant more cocos and other palms in Porto Santo. It would be also interesting to see if cocos in Porto Santo can fruit. Here at home so far is been also mild winter which is good for our garden. Just some days with light rains since we returned from Madeira. I don't think our climate is changing cause some winters are more warm than others. The only thing I was curious is about our sea temp. We have a growing number of lionfish came from the red sea. This made the authorities here very concerned about this predator against local fish species. Can lionfish survive in the Mediterranean or our sea temp is rising?

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21 hours ago, Stelios said:

 Can lionfish survive in the Mediterranean or our sea temp is rising?

Yes, it is surviving! It is an invasive and dangerous species.

Ii is eastern mediterranean and in 2016 it was in Baleares islands.

I think it survive our climate better than cocos, lol

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58 minutes ago, Monòver said:

Yes, it is surviving! It is an invasive and dangerous species.

Ii is eastern mediterranean and in 2016 it was in Baleares islands.

I think it survive our climate better than cocos, lol

Thanks for the info. Beautiful and tropical fish though! 

I wish our winters would be more warm so we could grow cocos like in Madeira or Porto Santo. Next time we will try to visit Madeira in the summer and spend more time in Porto Santo.

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  • 1 month later...

I think I found the coconut on a drone video!:

Check the house at 5:26 (remember to view in HD or 4k for better resolution):

 

This person also filmed the southwest side of the island and the islets, pretty cool!:

 

Is it me or the house might actually have two more coconuts in front near the beach?

 

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Hi Pedro

Yes. That's the place. It's difficult to see from this video but it looks like there are a couple of palms that could be coconuts.

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There are three coconut palms, you can see two of them on this picture I took two or three years ago. There used to be a fourth one on the other side of the house but it has been taken off. 

 

image.thumb.png.02c010c24e131574f225c03b

 

You can see the three coconut palms on this drone video at 5:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0f_zdJxkFo 

 

Edited by Pargomad
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Great find Kevin! All they need now is to fill up this beautiful beach with cocos to look like South Beach in Miami.

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Thanks Kevin,

That was great. Did you guts noticed the let coco (west one) has a hammock? The potential :yay:.

I am sure they can look better with a lot more irrigation, Porto Santo is a desert and those cocos are in pure sand, can't drain better than that. Although that house is probably a vacation one, maybe they have/could get sprinkles. Anyway Porto Santo seems to have good humidity every time of the year, close to 80%, despite the desert, this might be the reason why they still do well there. I am very happy with this video.

Hence forth this Thread should be renamed to Porto Santo coconutS. Stelios ask a Moderator:D

 

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12 hours ago, Cluster said:

Hence forth this Thread should be renamed to Porto Santo coconutS. Stelios ask a Moderator:D

 

Totally agree Pedro!

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