Coconut palms in the Mediterranean coast...

[Paranormal]

Am I having a lot of chances? Am I too much of a dreamer?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/112133883311246223998/photos/@36.544686,29.1244186,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m7!1e2!3m5!1sAF1QipMdJZlaZBSCYZC7K1rgGoPog0db85i666_QgpxR!2e10!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMdJZlaZBSCYZC7K1rgGoPog0db85i666_QgpxR%3Dw203-h100-p-k-no!7i3264!8i2448!4m3!8m2!3m1!1e1

 

[Paranormal]

Edited November 30, 2017 by Paranormal

[Paranormal]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sugar+Beach+Club+%C3%96l%C3%BCdeniz/@36.5491753,29.1107966,3a,90y,254.96h,84.29t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMF8MLXagg9S6YtrB4Nr6z6Fe4yQSqHD-bdNaRy!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMF8MLXagg9S6YtrB4Nr6z6Fe4yQSqHD-bdNaRy%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya184.29175-ro0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352!4m11!1m5!8m4!1e2!2s112133883311246223998!3m1!1e1!3m4!1s0x14c040a2aa53baaf:0x8c4626a882d22948!8m2!3d36.5532431!4d29.1159126

[bgl]

Forget it - just not going to happen! Coconut palms are uniquely tropical palms and they grow like weeds in the TROPICS. The Mediterranean is clearly not tropical and that's not going to change any time soon.

[Tyrone]

Try Beccariophoenix alfredii as it may live and actually look good. Most people wouldn't be able to tell it apart from a real coconut too.

[Hammer]

16 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Try Beccariophoenix alfredii as it may live and actually look good. Most people wouldn't be able to tell it apart from a real coconut too.

Excellent advice!  That is what I am doing in my Zone 10a Mediterranean Climate here in Southern California.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Hammer

[Paranormal]

Ridiculous in both(Howea forsteriana & Beccariophoenix fenestralis) absurd unnecessary.

 

[SоІеmіо]

İt will be - it will be - it will be - it will be; why coconuts never grow upuntil now? Why did not you succeed until this time?Because it is impossible and impossible. Mediterranean climate is a secret desert and cold climate. The tropical climate can not even imitate, there is no common point. (Turkey)Even in the hottest areas there are long-term colds up to minus 2 degrees in these regions. November - December - January - February (even cold in April) So; Goodbye coconut palms :)) Americans love to waste. Why is there no coconut forest in California? Because coconut, never likes the mediterranean climate.

...However, it is rainy and winter months.

Edited December 10, 2017 by SоІеmіо

[Phoenikakias]

Apart from the hyperactivity of the reply, it contains several correct points. I would like only to add that temperature is only one restricting factor. Water is another one if the coconut has exclusively or largely to fend for itself. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by Phoenikakias

[John in Andalucia]

I remember a few years back, a nursery in my town (in Spain) selling Cocos plants in pots. They were metre-tall specimens (due to them being stretched) and very lush-looking. I bought one for my own amusement (like a lot of the species I try ) because curiosity does get the better of you! Then the truth slowly unfolds, just like the leaves on a beautiful palm, only in reverse.

I admire the OP's stealthy, detailed plan but alas, no. Even I wouldn't be so cruel as to abandon a healthy Cocos nucifera on a Mediterranean beach. Try it indoors! I see from Kansas to the Netherlands people having success with indoor specimens. Kai kept his going for 7 years, I believe. That's what it's all about, when you don't possess a plant's native environment.

[SоІеmіо]

Do you have coconuts in these areas? Is there any coconut in the south of Turkey?

If you do not have coconut, the rainy winter is the only criminal of the month.

Like Miami, short-term, record-low colds. For Coconuts this is promising, just try it.

But, rainy and winter months; maybe the roots get caught in fungal disease. I am not sure. Ashes and sea water can prevent fungal disease.

Edited December 10, 2017 by SоІеmіо

[Tyrone]

If in your coldest month, the average max temp is below 20C (68F) you will not grow a coconut. I've done a LOT of research on it and that is your limiting factor. It's not natural rainfall because you can supplement that and it's not even humidity , as they grow on the subtropical west coast of Australia where the temps are horrendously high and the humidity low. If your coldest month averages less than 20C in the day, your coconut will likely die.

[SоІеmіо]

https://www.google.com/maps/contrib/112133883311246223998/photos/@36.544686,29.1244433,-17a,54.2y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMdJZlaZBSCYZC7K1rgGoPog0db85i666_QgpxR!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMdJZlaZBSCYZC7K1rgGoPog0db85i666_QgpxR%3Dw203-h100-p-k-no!7i3264!8i2448!4m3!8m2!3m1!1e1

Hi PARANORMAL?

This link is faulty, there is no such place in Turkey. This is ko phi phi region.

[wimmie]

Just dream on!

[Anamurlu]

They survive a little in the inner regions, after a while they get sick and die. The interior, is influenced by too the north. They are very rare in Turkey. But it is close to the sea and there are a few secluded rocky and secluded bay places, you can see a few of them. They are not under protection. People too insensitive, trees not well-maintained, it has coconut fruits, it is not delicious at all. It's obvious they do not belong here. They do not like this area, majority is right in this regard. 

[Yunder Wækraus]

41 minutes ago, Anamurlu said:

They survive a little in the inner regions, after a while they get sick and die. The interior, is influenced by too the north. They are very rare in Turkey. But it is close to the sea and there are a few secluded rocky and secluded bay places, you can see a few of them. They are not under protection. People too insensitive, trees not well-maintained, it has coconut fruits, it is not delicious at all. It's obvious they do not belong here. They do not like this area, majority is right in this regard. 

Pictures and GPS coordinates, please?

[SоІеmіо]

Are you sure you saw it right? Maybe it's Piassava or something? Is there really coconut in Turkey? Would you share a photo?

[Paranormal]

There is not even a coconut fossil in Turkey. Where is this with proof? Maybe it could be on the south west coast, but it is a very weak possibility.

[SоІеmіо]

21 hours ago, Tyrone said:

If in your coldest month, the average max temp is below 20C (68F) you will not grow a coconut. I've done a LOT of research on it and that is your limiting factor. It's not natural rainfall because you can supplement that and it's not even humidity , as they grow on the subtropical west coast of Australia where the temps are horrendously high and the humidity low. If your coldest month averages less than 20C in the day, your coconut will likely die.

It is very deceptive to rely on the average, and this is a wrong and very generous approach.

Due to the cold weather summit, a lot of coconuts were killed or seriously damaged, in many parts of florida and in miami yes.

Coconuts are not indigenous to miami, even here, they give life struggle. 

I mean that; In mediterranean conditions, coconuts, can be nothing but utopia.

[Tyrone]

Coconuts are actually quite leaf hardy but not root hardy. A case in point was a Hyophorbe lagenicaulis and a Cocos nucifera in pots under my patio roof both doing fine. In a winter storm hail got driven under cover and defoliated the Hyophorbe but didn't even spot the coconut leaves. The coconut died but the Hyophorbe grew new leaves and continued on. So in a place like Miami which is generally warm and warmer than 20C during the day on average in the coolest months a bit of cold weather which will chill the leaves but not the roots (it takes more time to cool the soil than the air) will not really affect the coconut. But when soil temps drop below a certain point the coconut dies even though the air temp may be way above freezing. Think of the frost free areas of NZ. Even there is no chance of growing a coconut.

I stick by my 20C cut off point for a coconut. An interesting fact is that at about 20C coconut oil goes from a solid to a liquid. A coincidence?

[Paranormal]

Rainy January and February
Dry air
Moist air
Averages
Record-colds
Roots
Heart

I am confused, I have read many contradictory comments.

[Tyrone]

If you want to put it into automotive terms, a coconut is a high powered engine that stalls at low rpm if you let the clutch out too quickly. Compare it to a Beccariophoenix alfredii which is more like a diesel that you let the clutch out at idle and it just drives away. In other words, the coconut grows fine above a certain soil temp, but a couple of degrees below that and it dies before your face very quickly.

[Paranormal]

(Quote kritize) PalmatierMeg commentary http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/55186-coconut-palm-due-to-cold-if-death-is-unavoidable/&page=1

 A temp of 27F  for more than a very short time will kill the meristem and kill the palm. Temps around 32 for even a few hours may kill a coconut; temps in the mid-30s cause serious damage and leave it prone to bacterial and fungal infections if warm, sunny conditions don't return right away. I don't know where you live but repeated cold fronts below 40F will kill a coconut. Coconuts will not photosynthesize below 50F and will die during long periods of cool weather. They need long, hot, sunny summers with warm rain. Cold rain will kill them by causing disease. I call them truly tropical palms rather than mediterranean. California has a mediterranean climate in most places and for every location that has successfully grown one coconut there are 1,000 others that failed. If I had to generalize, I'd say if a climate is ideal for people, a coconut will have issues with it.

 

(Tyrone) According to your determinations, ^for healthy roots: If in winter are rainy; As far as I understand, an average of 68 ° F is required^ According to others, these are not enough :) I was meaning where did you get this from? (Reference - Sources)

[SоІеmіо]

Very ambitious, how many days, how many hours, 27 degrees? You can not save the roots from the rain. What will be Meristem? Well, what is your source, where did you find it?

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by SоІеmіо

[Paranormal]

Cropaid could be the solution for meristem.

[SоІеmіо]

No no

I was meaning where did you get this image from?

[Paranormal]

West, southwest and south Nepal. Or İn north India;  ı heard that the method of burying the roots deep. However, cannot prove it.

[Paranormal]

(Quote kritize) Walt  commentary http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/55186-coconut-palm-due-to-cold-if-death-is-unavoidable/&page=1

I know from unfortunate empirical experience, that if the trunk and meristem freezes on a coconut palm -- it won't make any difference if the roots don't freeze-- the palm will be killed. In fact, the roots won't freeze as the soil temperatures in my zone 9b never approach freezing, at least not once below 1" (roughly 2.5 cm) in depth.

The main problem was not the roots; Meristem! There are also such commentators.

[Tyrone]

9 hours ago, Paranormal said:

 

 

(Tyrone) According to your determinations, ^for healthy roots: If in winter are rainy; As far as I understand, an average of 68 ° F is required^ According to others, these are not enough :) I was meaning where did you get this from? (Reference - Sources)

From my own research using the weather services in Australia and seeing where they grow. In Australia they will not grow south of 20C coldest average max temp in winter line. If you are above that line, you don't get much winter cold front activity anyway, so cold rain is not much of an issue. On the west coast that line runs through Geraldton at 29S where rainfall though mainly winter rainfall is about 300-400mm a year. On the east coast is northern NSW at about the same latitude as Geraldton, where rainfall is higher but mainly summer rainfall. Above that line, conditions just get better and better for a coconut.

[Tyrone]

11 hours ago, Paranormal said:

(Quote kritize) Walt  commentary http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/55186-coconut-palm-due-to-cold-if-death-is-unavoidable/&page=1

I know from unfortunate empirical experience, that if the trunk and meristem freezes on a coconut palm -- it won't make any difference if the roots don't freeze-- the palm will be killed. In fact, the roots won't freeze as the soil temperatures in my zone 9b never approach freezing, at least not once below 1" (roughly 2.5 cm) in depth.

The main problem was not the roots; Meristem! There are also such commentators.

If you are worried about freezing a coconut then you really shouldn't bother with one. If you never ever really get below 2 or 3C and your day time temps are high enough then you are in with a chance.

[CroToni]

On 2/12/2017, 17:02:52, Hammer said:

Excellent advice!  That is what I am doing in my Zone 10a Mediterranean Climate here in Southern California.

sad thing is that zone 10b here is much cooler than your zone 10a,but your record low is probably in the 20's meanwhile in most places here frost was not recorded for  a 100 years or more.

[Hammer]

21 minutes ago, CroToni said:

sad thing is that zone 10b here is much cooler than your zone 10a,but your record low is probably in the 20's meanwhile in most places here frost was not recorded for  a 100 years or more.

You might be surprised at just how cool our winters get, for long periods, here in Southern California.   Usually a lot of rain too.  

Farther inland of me they do experience temps in the 20s.  The coldest I have ever recorded in my garden is 32f for a few hours.  Unfortunately for me my yard has a cold air drain into the back.  Others near me on Palmtalk exhibit no frost when mine has it all over the lawn.  Such is life.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Hammer

[Paranormal]

On 11.12.2017 13:24:41, Tyrone said:

I stick by my 20C cut off point for a coconut. An interesting fact is that at about 20C coconut oil goes from a solid to a liquid. A coincidence?

Incorrect, coconut oil; not even melted at 26-27 degrees. However, it becomes liquid between 28 degrees and 29 degrees.

[DoomsDave]

On 12/11/2017, 3:22:59, Paranormal said:

Rainy January and February
Dry air
Moist air
Averages
Record-colds
Roots
Heart

I am confused, I have read many contradictory comments.

Coconuts in Turkey? Nope.

See my PM

[Tyrone]

9 hours ago, Paranormal said:

Incorrect, coconut oil; not even melted at 26-27 degrees. However, it becomes liquid between 28 degrees and 29 degrees.

I'm only talking by my own experience, and to be honest I could have been out a few degrees. We only used the pure 100% Sri Lankan oil not the other stuff that has been hydrogenated to look like margarine and stay solid at room temperature. 

Anyway it doesn't change the fact that you need at least a 20C max average in your coldest month to grow one, and btw I did grow one in Perth for 9 years and had to protect the plant to stay in that range.

[The Palm Nut]

Had a look at the Port Macquarie data from the old station on Hill St which goes back more than a 100years. Average winter maximums for June, July, August are 18c to mid 19c.  I think the average for July was 17.9c. I live right next to the river which moderates the temperature a bit, I never have had frost. So my garden would be pretty close to the 20c maximum mark for those winter months. Factors such as cold rain, lack of drainage, and heavy soil are equally important and can kill the palm in marginal climate zones. Some varieties wouldn't last a winter in my garden believe me I have tried. If the roots are wet and cold meaning sub soil temps around 14c and lower for periods of a few days it will kill the palm. If the roots are dry survival is more likely, this factor alone is underestimated, keep the roots dry even if it means for the whole winter particularly during the first few years. Another factor in my favour now is root competition for moisture as my garden is packed with mature palms all trying to find what ever moisture is available, no moisture they go dormant and cold becomes not quite as deadly as it might otherwise be. 

I have success growing the coconut quite well, till they get to a certain height in which case the cold winds of winter starts to effect its look. From that point on its down hill for the palm with regards to its look. I ended up removing it at a height of around 20 feet of solid trunk, but have since planted 6 more around the garden. Tyrone is pretty close to the mark with temperatures needed for this palm (particularly near surface soil temps) but I might add they need protection from cold winds as this is just as likely to kill the palm short term. I have an addiction with this palm for some reason and will keep on growing the species just because I can when others haven't been able to.

So now some of you should have some insight into growing these, good luck and don't give up.

 

[SоІеmіо]

The long winter rains are dangerous for the roots. In fact, a different idea, the sea water is tepid and salty, salt protects the roots. A step can be taken by trial and error method. Since the sea edge may be several degrees higher, meristem may also be secured. Coastal sand and cliffs, coconut farms... It sounds good.

Edited December 23, 2017 by SоІеmіо

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I must say this is comical.  I think Paranormal (Solemio) should go ahead and plant coconuts on their beachfront property in Turkey and I'm thinking about 500 should get the plantation going.

[Laaz]

[palmfriend]

With all due respect - this sounds like a bot - or bots (paranormal AND solemio) - having a conversation...Other palm talker opinions/posts
in these (or other threads) threads are NEVER taken into consideration or taken seriously, it is just weird.

I have never seen such strange threads here before. 

Just my two cents.

L.