Coconut palm [Due to cold] İf death is unavoidable

[Paranormal]

Coconut palm [Due to cold] İf death is unavoidable. Put very deep the roots.

Anybody try this? Is the method reliable?

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Paranormal

[Zeeth]

Planting any palm 10 feet deeper than it would normally grow will kill it.

[PalmatierMeg]

Agree. Palm roots grow from a basal plate at the bottom of the stem. Bury the plate and you suffocate all the roots. And the meristem (growing point) of an adult coconut is near the top of the tree not down at the roots. A temp of 27F  for more than a very short time will kill the meristem and kill the palm. Temps around 32 for even a few hours may kill a coconut; temps in the mid-30s cause serious damage and leave it prone to bacterial and fungal infections if warm, sunny conditions don't return right away. I don't know where you live but repeated cold fronts below 40F will kill a coconut. Coconuts will not photosynthesize below 50F and will die during long periods of cool weather. They need long, hot, sunny summers with warm rain. Cold rain will kill them by causing disease. I call them truly tropical palms rather than mediterranean. California has a mediterranean climate in most places and for every location that has successfully grown one coconut there are 1,000 others that failed. If I had to generalize, I'd say if a climate is ideal for people, a coconut will have issues with it.

[Cluster]

The other problem with this theory is that in those cool zones a coconut would probably not grow tall enough (it would eventually die before that) to be planted that deep.

[Jesse]

Sources?  I would like to see an example of this being tried, even if it means death. My assumption is that the hole is filled with rocks or coarse sand.

[Paranormal]

Should not be viewed as gambling; trial and error and several examples should be made. Maybe a miracle-potion-magic wand would be this method.

 

[Paranormal]

Besides, there are other ideas, of course  (maybes; different, different) 

 

[Paranormal]

challenging work   forget it; I give up 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyRAWP9gA0g

Edited November 21, 2017 by Paranormal

[PalmatierMeg]

Well, sure, I'd like to see someone try the experiment: Import/obtain a10m+ adult coconut, dig a 3m hole in the ground, stick said coconut into hole, fill with dirt, rocks, sand, bark and assorted debris, bring on winter and 0C to -4C degree lows, then document results with photos. Repeat experiment until wallet is empty. Report results here with lots of photos. We love photos.

[Jesse]

Who's got the time?  I'm sure we could get a crowd fund going.  People love to give money for research!

[Pando]

I thought triode was back.

[Bill H2DB]

  Back in the '60's here in Daytona , several large Coconut trees were planted at an oceanfront motel.

The positioning was quite good , as the ( curved) 5-6 story motel building is such that the North winds were almost entirely 

kept away , and the palms faced to the Southeast . Heat was supplied to the roots and lower parts of the planting area.

Despite that , the palms succumbed , because , as stated above , the hearts were killed during cold waves , and that was that .

 

[Paranormal]

Coconut palm [Due to cold] İf death is unavoidable. Put very deep the roots.

İf is unavoidable already; would no problem, cheap experiment.

[Pip]

All the coconut palms died that were growing the Adelaide Botanical Gardens Bicentennial Conservatory after it was decided to turn the heating off. The trade off is that entry to the giant glass house is now free but the collection on display isn't nearly as interesting as it once was. Many of the plants don't necessarily need the protection provided by the structure to grow in a true Mediterranean climate but the protection from strong wind is a bonus.

[Paranormal]

So the application video is wrong you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyRAWP9gA0g

 Root: How many feet; what should be the measurements?

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Paranormal

[Paranormal]

Members have very inconsistent comments under different topics. Contradictions that really in need to be explained. Especially about coconuts... At least, do we agree on this?

[Paranormal]

Conditions in mediterranean climate; sometimes more under the cold and 30 Fahrenheit.  Healthy and fruit capable; there are coconut palms and they are undeniable evidence.

[PalmatierMeg]

What are you trying to prove with that video? Those people live in the tropics not a mediterranean climate. The video is incomplete so we don't know how they completed the transplant. Can a coconut survive for a short time on the southern shore of the Mediterranean Sea? Maybe but I've never been there. But I do know from reading posts on the European Palm Forum that all of Europe is prone to powerful polar blasts from Siberia, i.e., the "Russian Bear" that can freeze everything down to North Africa.

People who want to grow coconuts are trying to find a way - like you are. It's called hope. Sometimes their only hope is to move far away. But they think if they try hard enough, care enough, work hard enough, they will succeed where others have failed. I went through a brief phase of that that ended in Jan. 2010 when I lost 30 species of uber tropicals to a particularly nasty Arctic Express.

You will never find total agreement on this forum even about a palm as well known as the coconut.

[Paranormal]

West, southwest and south Nepal. Or İn north India;  ı heard that the method of burying the roots deep. However, cannot prove it. 

You have stated that roots deepening is wrong. It may be logical; What is your reference?

I want to draw attention to another point: 

PalmatierMeg :  ^I don't know where you live but repeated cold fronts below 40F will kill a coconut. Coconuts will not photosynthesize below 50F and will die during long periods of cool weather^ You expressed in the form of...

https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/115895823439012891984/6451940881968227506

There are colder places and many examples; 38 °F / 32 °F / 30 °F even 28-27 °F as.

(Toros giant row of mountains; like himalaya mountains) İn the mediterranean region Toros mountains is parallel to the sea; They block airflow from the north. I live in Turkey. There is a mysterious mikroklima in the south...

Even if you are close to the equator, there are some cool conditions in the world. Even if you are away from the equator, There are such microclimate zones in Turkey.

Because the plains are too much; Can not block the north winds, and florida sees occasional frost and snowfall; Even Miami...

I do not know if there has ever been coconut palms in Turkey; I want to give a chance to the coconut palms. Even if, it is a waste...

Edited November 22, 2017 by Paranormal

[Walt]

I know from unfortunate empirical experience, that if the trunk and meristem freezes on a coconut palm -- it won't make any difference if the roots don't freeze-- the palm will be killed. In fact, the roots won't freeze as the soil temperatures in my zone 9b never approach freezing, at least not once below 1" (roughly 2.5 cm) in depth.

 

[Sanips]

16 hours ago, Paranormal said:

Conditions in mediterranean climate; sometimes more under the cold and 30 Fahrenheit.  Healthy and fruit capable; there are coconut palms and they are undeniable evidence.

Which is the Mediterranean climate are you talking about? Because in the European Mediterranean climate I told you it's a difficult task to keep them thriving. I know two cases in Rincón de la Vitoria (a town in Málaga, Spain, It's an area called the Tropical Coast) and in Murcia (also in Spain). They have to give them very specific conditions and a very slightly cool winter could kill them. About fruiting, these growers don't count on it. They could survive very low temperatures but it might be punctual cases and not many days in a row.

[Cluster]

Surviving in the geographical European Mediterranean climate? I do not believe they will be there long term in normal conditions (you would need to give them something special to make up for it). No one really knows how those Spanish coconuts are growing (we know they are in pots), but I believe once they go to the ground and without protection they won't last 10 years. Some parts of coastal South California have significantly warmer winters and we know how they end up long term there in normal conditions.

Still I would try to give them an edge to make up for the not sufficient climate as I love coconuts, Walt knows how to achieve such things:)

Edited November 23, 2017 by Cluster

[Paranormal]

2 hours ago, Sanips said:

Which is the Mediterranean climate are you talking about? Because in the European Mediterranean climate I told you it's a difficult task to keep them thriving. I know two cases in Rincón de la Vitoria (a town in Málaga, Spain, It's an area called the Tropical Coast) and in Murcia (also in Spain). They have to give them very specific conditions and a very slightly cool winter could kill them. About fruiting, these growers don't count on it. They could survive very low temperatures but it might be punctual cases and not many days in a row.

It looks like Daytona beach; but Inadequate summers and inadequate rainfall. i am not sure...

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/monthly_2017_10/E58846E9-DC56-465E-BE4E-47DFAA9B13FB.jpeg.a5ce1cf0c18018fc0c77052fe247eb6c.jpeg

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Paranormal

[Sanips]

42 minutes ago, Paranormal said:

It looks like Daytona beach; but Inadequate summers and inadequate rainfall. i am not sure...

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/uploads/monthly_2017_10/E58846E9-DC56-465E-BE4E-47DFAA9B13FB.jpeg.a5ce1cf0c18018fc0c77052fe247eb6c.jpeg

 

No, the problems aren't the summers and rainfall (this could be easily substituted with artificial waterings), it's the winters. As you can see the average temperature in December, January and February there are differences up to 3ºC which it's a lot.

[Paranormal]

1 hour ago, Cluster said:

Surviving in the geographical European Mediterranean climate? I do not believe they will be there long term in normal conditions (you would need to give them something special to make up for it). No one really knows how those Spanish coconuts are growing (we know they are in pots), but I believe once they go to the ground and without protection they won't last 10 years. Some parts of coastal South California have significantly warmer winters and we know how they end up long term there in normal conditions.

Still I would try to give them an edge to make up for the not sufficient climate as I love coconuts, Walt knows how to achieve such things:)

Turkey is not European; there are sunny summers. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Paranormal

[Bill H2DB]

  Isn't this discussion analogous to trying to grow Colorado Blue Spruce in Miami , or growing Bald Cypress in

Yuma Arizona ?  Etc Etc 

[Paranormal]

Although not closely related to the subject; the summers of the mediterranean are strange. Equator is far, dense sun; cool winters on the contrary. The secrets of God

Adana city; it's a complete hell.   But the good sides too; there are various and abundant crops 

The glacial era 250,000 years did not exist in Turkey; this is much more attractive than Coconut. (4. glacial era)

Yes you watched the ads.

Some benchmarking examples:

Edited November 23, 2017 by Paranormal

[PalmatierMeg]

2 hours ago, Bill H2DB said:

  Isn't this discussion analogous to trying to grow Colorado Blue Spruce in Miami , or growing Bald Cypress in

Yuma Arizona ?  Etc Etc 

Exactly. You must have a total year-round suitable climate. Where I live in SWFL my climate is not truly tropical but subtropical. So every winter I have to bite my nails at times during a two month period when lows can and maybe do drop below 40F/5C. Then I move my potted uber tropicals on carts indoors and pray for my in-ground tropicals that are too large to protect. If coconuts are badly damaged on a day of 3C/2C, they will be destroyed on a string of them.

Another thing most people don't know - I didn't until a few years ago - coconuts may survive/struggle when temps are merely warm and nights cooler but they will not flower or set fruit. I was told coconut palms grown above 1,000' elevation look nice but never fruit. If you want to grow them as a crop you must live lower down the mountain. They need not only hot/very warm days but also warm nights if you want something more than decoration. I don't see them surviving at all on the arid plains of Turkey.

[Paranormal]

22 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Kesinlikle. Yıl boyunca uygun bir iklime sahip olmanız gerekmektedir. SWFL'de yaşadığım iklimim gerçekten tropikal değil, subtropikal. Bu yüzden her kış, zamanların azalışı 40F / 5C'nin altına inebildiği ve belki de iki katına düştüğü iki aylık dönemde tırnakları ısırmam gerekiyor. Sonra saksı altındaki tropikal tropikal ürünlerini kapalı mekanlarda arabalarla taşıdım ve korumak için çok büyük yerdeki tropikal bitkiler için dua ediyorum. Eğer hindistancevizi 3C / 2C gününde kötü bir şekilde hasar görürlerse, bir dizi coconut'tan yok edilirler.

Çoğu insanın bilmediği başka bir şey - birkaç yıl önceye kadar yapmadım - tempslar sadece sıcak ve gece daha serin olduğunda hindistancevizi hayatta kalabilir / mücadele edebilir ancak meyve vermez veya meyve vermezler. 1000'den fazla yetişen hindistancevizi avuç içimi güzel ama asla meyve vermiyor söylendi. Onları bir ürün olarak büyütmek isterseniz, dağın aşağısında yaşamanız gerekir. Dekorasyondan daha fazlasını istiyorsanız sıcak / çok sıcak günlere değil aynı zamanda sıcak geceye ihtiyaç duyuyorlar. Onların kurak ovalarında yaşadıklarını görmüyorum.

Coconut palms in mediterranean climate.

https://www.google.com.tr/maps/place/Northampton+Bat%C4%B1+Avustralya+6535,+Avustralya/@-28.3810291,114.4308408,3a,19.2y,199.31h,88.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX-OxbWffybClyAwOP2gaaw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x2bdbba1f98ea1751:0x400f6382479df70!8m2!3d-28.351111!4d114.628056

 

[Paranormal]

Lucky conditions in the Mediterranean:

 

[Paranormal]

  These. Are Hovea the palms? Like coconut palms...

https://www.google.com.tr/maps/place/Ocean+City,+Maryland,+Birle%C5%9Fik+Devletler/@38.3790259,-75.0710014,3a,90y,5.8h,112.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAF1QipMZ0a6u_7RmbPOZPWqrr92r6AR7RuQSY6sN3z1p!2e10!7i13312!8i6656!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x54eab584e432360b:0x1c3bb99243deb742!2sBirle%C5%9Fik+Devletler!3b1!8m2!3d37.09024!4d-95.712891!3m4!1s0x89b8d671ac93de8b:0xb4bc715a3af31672!8m2!3d38.3365398!4d-75.0848579

Like a joke; are these real?

https://plus.google.com/photos/photo/107513683795501617523/6387818616169952002

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Paranormal

[Darold Petty]

Paranormal, Welcome to Palmtalk!  Please stop with this thread.

Coconuts won't survive long-term in a Mediterranean climate due to low temperatures damaging the apical meristem.  The long, cool, wet winters are very deleterious to the roots.  The suggestion to bury the trunk deeper in the ground has been tried, the palm will surely die.  Thank you.

[Moose]

Topical palms grow in tropical climates. A sub tropical climate with limited cold events, it is possible. Don't know of any coconuts north of Orlando. And those are in a microclime "heat island" The coconut carnage will never end ...

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2017‎ ‎7‎:‎35‎:‎06‎, Pando said:

I thought triode was back.

[Paranormal]

Is there any difference in cold resistance between seedling and adult tree?  If so, how many degrees difference?

[Moose]

Seedlings or mature coconut palms, they start suffering when temps drop below 40 F. They can take cold snaps for a day or two when the temps rise afterwards. Extended days below 35 F they become very unhappy

[Hammer]

I live in coastal Southern California. There are coconuts growing in this Mediterranean climate.  But only in an incredibly few microclimates.  Those that do grow I am 100% convinced it is pure good luck.

I have lost a number of Cocos over the years.  I have given up on this dream. 

My zone pushing now consists of Bottle Palms and (my latest fool's errand) Areca vestiaria.

My suggestion would be to try a few Bottle Palms. If those grow in your area, and look good, then maybe try a cocos. If Bottles won't grow, then don't waste your time and money on a coconut. 

Fwiw, Darold and PalmatierMeg are correct.  

[Hammer]

1 hour ago, Moose said:

Seedlings or mature coconut palms, they start suffering when temps drop below 40 F. They can take cold snaps for a day or two when the temps rise afterwards. Extended days below 35 F they become very unhappy

Moose, I think you are being generous. In CA where our winter daily highs don't boucle back as much, I think Cocos suffer damage below 50f.

[Paranormal]

Exactly.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Paranormal

[Paranormal]

Like the if Mediterranean conditions; ıs Miami really tropical? Strange

Edited November 24, 2017 by Paranormal

[Pando]

45 minutes ago, Paranormal said:

Like the if Mediterranean conditions; ıs Miami really tropical? Strange

Record lows and highs don't mean much to coconuts. There have been pictures of them covered with snow and they are still surviving.

Look at the average temperatures in the chart you just posted. This will give you part of the answer. Combine this with rainfall (when it's cold), and low soil temperatures (when it's raining), and the picture becomes even more clear.

The few coconuts that are surviving in California are on south-facing areas of the property completely surrounded by concrete. This keeps soil temps higher and limit the amount of water that gets to the roots when it's cold.

 

23 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Paranormal, Welcome to Palmtalk!  Please stop with this thread.