How to save a CIDP.

[Monòver]

May be european people has seen this, but for Californian people, i think this will be interesting. This is not the californian weevil, but the treatment is the same. 

I am gardener and in the last years i have seen thousands CIDP with red weevil.

There is lots of preventive treatments, but when the palm tree is infested, the best is remove the crown, cleaning every eaten  and rotten parts until we arrive to the healthy area.

With this we can take many larvae and open the site to the poison. This is a radical system, but we can save lots of palms with this.

Here a few pictures, expleaning this.

The first symptom was the new leaves was inclined, after go up to the crown and cut a few leaves i saw the area was infested.

this is the tool i use to trim palms, with this i cut and remove every eaten areas.

 

Now i start to see the fist weevils, larvae, cocoon and adult.

after remove eaten and rotten areas, the top of the crown looks like this. It is very important remove the damaged untyl we see the healthy area.

and the last step is to do the treatment. I was spaying 25 liters, one insecticide and one fungicide.

Both are important, the insecticide to kill weevils and the fungicide because now the area is prone to rot, fungus, etc.

We must soak the crown, cleaning with the poison and filling the holes with more poison.

This is after the treatment.

And after this, the palm tree looks like this.

I am sure it will recover and i will post more pictures in the next weeks.

I hope it will be useful for people with this problem.

[Kris]

Dear Antonio,

In my opinion the day when few governments and agriculturist shifted from using chemical based fertilizers,pesticides,insecticides and fungicides and went after what they call organic farming.And use of composite manure derived from waste food and dried leaves from trees. In tropics once we try to decompose organic waste and start dispensing this manure to the roots of the plants,we can see numerous pest and insects like beetles,centipedes,millipedes,bull ants,fire ants and termites taking refuge under the moist layer of this composite manure.  

And they are quite harmful to palm trees,especially the ornamental ones like CIDP,Bismarkia,date palm,etc.

So as long as we refrain from using diluted chemicals regularly to protect our palms and exotic plants,its going to be a very difficult task to contain weevil and fungus infections in palms.

And in your post you have mentioned that poison is poured,sprayed on the infected palm.when the game is over what is the point now.What iam saying is regular treatment on healthy palms using chemicals could have saved more palms in Europe and U.S.A. Than just containing the spreading infection now.

Love,

Kris.

 

[Monòver]

I don't love chemicals, but in ifested palms, is the best.

In Europe we are lucky and after long time with this pest, we have a few ecological preventive treatments nemathodes, fungus and not ecological, but less dangerous, endotheraphy.

In my own garden, i am using only a few times per year the chemicals for kill mosquitoes. I never will have a CIDP because i don't like the chemicals in my house and the ecological treatments are expensive.

I think the best in Europe  and California is not plant CIDP and use the chemicals for save the old palm trees.

[Phoenikakias]

1 hour ago, Kris said:

Dear Antonio,

In my opinion the day when few governments and agriculturist shifted from using chemical based fertilizers,pesticides,insecticides and fungicides and went after what they call organic farming.And use of composite manure derived from waste food and dried leaves from trees. In tropics once we try to decompose organic waste and start dispensing this manure to the roots of the plants,we can see numerous pest and insects like beetles,centipedes,millipedes,bull ants,fire ants and termites taking refuge under the moist layer of this composite manure.  

And they are quite harmful to palm trees,especially the ornamental ones like CIDP,Bismarkia,date palm,etc.

So as long as we refrain from using diluted chemicals regularly to protect our palms and exotic plants,its going to be a very difficult task to contain weevil and fungus infections in palms.

And in your post you have mentioned that poison is poured,sprayed on the infected palm.when the game is over what is the point now.What iam saying is regular treatment on healthy palms using chemicals could have saved more palms in Europe and U.S.A. Than just containing the spreading infection now.

Love,

Kris.

 

I wonder myself occasionally, whether organic fertilizer may promote some fungal infection. I have lost this summer a bullet proof little Sabal uresana from fungal infection and am quite shocked and puzzled by this casualty.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Antonio, I think you caught this just in the knick of time!  That was a lot of work but it should recover from the looks of it. 

[LJG]

A lot of work and sadly by doing this you open it up to Fusarium. I doubt there is another palm in the world that has so many things trying to kill it.

[Monòver]

Big mistake Len! It was opened to Fusarium and pink root when the red weevil was inside eating crown.

Now, it has a big cutted area, treated by fungicide and in a few days, it will be recovery.

CIDP infested by weevils are death palms. If you don't do this and soak with insecticide, the  rotten crown will be too wet, perfect for fungus, but the insecticide never kill the deeper larvae.

Other systems are not good in infested palms.

Reed weevil kill thousands of palms, Fusarium only a few palms( in Spain ). We are worried with the weevil, not the Fusarium.

The first time that i had seen a scientific explaining us how to make this, i was thinking he was crazy, but he wasn't crazy and thousands of palm trees has been saved with this.

Weevils are not common infestation, they are not scales or mealy bugs. If people thinks this, people will lost its palms.

Len, you have a nice big CIDP. If the palmarum weevil is in your palm tree, what you will do?

 

[LJG]

7 hours ago, Monòver said:

Big mistake Len! It was opened to Fusarium and pink root when the red weevil was inside eating crown.

Now, it has a big cutted area, treated by fungicide and in a few days, it will be recovery.

CIDP infested by weevils are death palms. If you don't do this and soak with insecticide, the  rotten crown will be too wet, perfect for fungus, but the insecticide never kill the deeper larvae.

Other systems are not good in infested palms.

Reed weevil kill thousands of palms, Fusarium only a few palms( in Spain ). We are worried with the weevil, not the Fusarium.

The first time that i had seen a scientific explaining us how to make this, i was thinking he was crazy, but he wasn't crazy and thousands of palm trees has been saved with this.

Weevils are not common infestation, they are not scales or mealy bugs. If people thinks this, people will lost its palms.

Len, you have a nice big CIDP. If the palmarum weevil is in your palm tree, what you will do?

 

Oh I fully understand that the red weevil leads to death and must be dealt with. I was just pointing out that even when you fight one thing, a CIDP has so many other things wanting to kill it that have an easier change now thanks to the weevil. 

Yes, I have two nice ones. I was about 40 miles south at my daughters soccer game a few months ago and saw so many dead CIDP from the South American PW. I know it is only a matter of time. I will start inoculating as they arrive further north. 

[Monòver]

Sorry Len, i am Spanish and palmtalk is my school to learn english, but sometimes i don't understand 100% what people say, lol.

I am worried for Californian palmtrees because this is the same situation that we had in  Europe with the red weevil a few years ago. It was a small problem in a few places, but the problem was getting bigger, and bigger and bigger and now, may be the 80% CIDP are destroyed and with problems in may be 20 species more.

I hope the palmarum will be less dangerous and you can eliminate it.

 

P.D. Len, please write more in your blog

[Kokioula]

The Rhynchophorus (red weevil?) is rampant in Hawaii now that sugar cane is no longer commercially produced. Unfortunately they love Pritchardia, especially some species.

i fight em hard with similar techniques, but looking/ hoping for ways to trap with pheromones 

[Monòver]

Here is the same, it loves CIDP, but kill other Phoenix, Bismarckias, Washintonias filiferas, Pritchardias, Jubaeas, Raveneas and more, and more, and more...

I am in the Elche area, here there are thousands of Phoenix dactyliferas  protected for the UNESCO and we are lucky, we have a big net of traps. You can see the traps in every places and if you have a look inside, alway are full. The traps are not the solution but it helps.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Monòver

[PalmTreeDude]

Do weevils attack certine palms? Or all?

[lapalmeraie]

Ola Monòver!

great approach that I didn’t see before though I’m very frequently asked about this threat due to my article on the Red Palm Weevil and even more present in France palm moth (Paysandisia):

http://palmvrienden.net/gblapalmeraie/2017/10/19/the-palm-moth-red-palm-weevil-everything-you-need-to-know/

If this methods turn out to be effective I will be very happy to include your method in the article @Monòver keep us posted !

@PalmTreeDude: the RPW has a big preference for the CIDP and Washingtonia. It is the palm moth that attacks more often the other species to start with Trachycarpus. In the article mentioned above you’ll find a list with common hosts and the more resistant species 

Kr

Niek

[Monòver]

9 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Do weevils attack certine palms? Or all?

Not all. Weevils love CIDP, may be 95% palms killed are this. But you can see a few other species killed by red weevil. 

10 minutes ago, lapalmeraie said:

Ola Monòver!

great approach that I didn’t see before though I’m very frequently asked about this threat due to my article on the Red Palm Weevil and even more present in France palm moth (Paysandisia):

http://palmvrienden.net/gblapalmeraie/2017/10/19/the-palm-moth-red-palm-weevil-everything-you-need-to-know/

If this methods turn out to be effective I will be very happy to include your method in the article @Monòver keep us posted !

@PalmTreeDude: the RPW has a big preference for the CIDP and Washingtonia. It is the palm moth that attacks more often the other species to start with Trachycarpus. In the article mentioned above you’ll find a list with common hosts and the more resistant species 

Kr

Niek

It is not my method, lol. I learned this a long time ago when scientifics was explaining the best for fight against this bug.

If you search in google "cirujia palmera canaria" , you will see a few videos and more information.

[Phoenikakias]

7 hours ago, lapalmeraie said:

Ola Monòver!

great approach that I didn’t see before though I’m very frequently asked about this threat due to my article on the Red Palm Weevil and even more present in France palm moth (Paysandisia):

http://palmvrienden.net/gblapalmeraie/2017/10/19/the-palm-moth-red-palm-weevil-everything-you-need-to-know/

If this methods turn out to be effective I will be very happy to include your method in the article @Monòver keep us posted !

@PalmTreeDude: the RPW has a big preference for the CIDP and Washingtonia. It is the palm moth that attacks more often the other species to start with Trachycarpus. In the article mentioned above you’ll find a list with common hosts and the more resistant species 

Kr

Niek

Dude, some prety accurate information. Of course there are still much more to be added. BUT why have you not included south eastern Europe in the distribution sector? Both those damned insect are present for example in both Croatia and Greece.  And lately I heard reports about the presence of Paysandisia in north western France and across the channel.

[Kris]

Here's a video link to the Weevil issue :

https://youtu.be/4YkAkSZbMtQ

In this page you can also find about 10 to 12 videos of the same RPW menace..

.

[Monòver]

Thanks Kris!

People can see what this small bug can do with CIDP.

[cartridge]

On 2.11.2017, 07:56:13, Monòver said:

Not all. Weevils love CIDP, may be 95% palms killed are this. But you can see a few other species killed by red weevil. 

It is not my method, lol. I learned this a long time ago when scientifics was explaining the best for fight against this bug.

If you search in google "cirujia palmera canaria" , you will see a few videos and more information.

Hi, this is my first post here. I’m a plants & palm tree lover from switzerland since 30 years.

That’s exactly what I have seen in italy (sicily) 10 years ago. I've been watching this pest all of that time here in europe an is pure horror how fast the CIDPs are dying. Nearly 90 % of the adult CIDP in Catania or Palermo were infested with the red palm weevil. All this palms are gone now. But at this time I have never seen an infested Washingtonia, Syagrus or Brahea. It's a sensation if you find nowadays a big healthy CIDP in Catania. They are all dead. But at the same time you will find a lot of Phoenix dactylifera because that’s not the first address for the RPW.
For Example: You have to see the pics of „Piazza Roma“ in Catania then (2007/2008) and now. All CIDPs are gone! The tall Washingtonia robusta is still alive. : )

Piazza Roma 2008: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/13345105

Now: via Google Street Viewhttps://www.google.ch/maps/@37.5135588,15.0826201,3a,75y,159.06h,97.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8PLeJ9i4AMP4sW9-CAPh-w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by cartridge

[Monòver]

Hello cartridge, welcome to palmtalk!!!

Yes, in Spain is the same situation,and in France and Greece...

Red weevil loves CIDP. Here is near impossible to see old CIDP. Only a few are surviving because the owners are palm lovers and are treating the palms.

I am in Elche area, here we have thousands of Phoenix dactyliferas and every days i can see a few destroyed by red weevils. But for one dactylifera killed you can see one hundred canariensis killed.

Red weevil don't like Washintonias robustas but kills filiferas and Braheas. And we are lucky, don't touch Syagrus.

In the future, CIDP will be an unknow palm in Europe. I think, when the science find a solution for this bug, will be too late for CIDP in Europe.

But of course, we have the wild population in Canary islands. In this moment are red weevil free but with other weevil problem, the Diocalandra frumenti.

[cartridge]

Hi Monover,

Until 2013/2014, Menton at the french riviera was one of the last places where the RPW were unknown. This was one of the reasons why I like this place so much. Thousands of healthy CIDP. A Top destination for a palm lover like me.
Google-Street View Pic from 2014. A perfect world.
https://www.google.ch/maps/@43.7842163,7.5270957,2a,75y,27.46h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdMN7e2n4mID2_Dcj5U6nbw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0
But it’s over now. More and more CIDPs get infested. Like this one. Google-Street View Pic from oct, 2016.

https://www.google.ch/maps/@43.7835544,7.5152496,3a,75y,346.02h,86.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spMkLW2Z-zs4R7uuNhFMgww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0
Same Palms in 2017.
http://propalmes83.com/images/photos/Menton01/160128-menton-em06.jpg
You can see that the left one is also infested.
I can't visit this place any longer. I think I' will get a heart attack next time. Same in Italy (Sicily) After my last visit in 2009. I was not there anymore. I saw hundreds of infested and dead CIDP.

[cartridge]

A few shocking pics from Italy (Sicily). Pictures taken in summer of 2009. All big CIDP in towns like Catania, Acireale, Naxos... are dead now.

 

I hoped that it would, but it didn't work. I think this palm is dead as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cikas]

On 02. 11. 2017., Phoenikakias said:

Dude, some prety accurate information. Of course there are still much more to be added. BUT why have you not included south eastern Europe in the distribution sector? Both those damned insect are present for example in both Croatia and Greece.  And lately I heard reports about the presence of Paysandisia in north western France and across the channel.

Yes. Here in Croatia CIDP will be gone soon. Every year more and more of them are killed. Other palm species soo far are not attacked by RPW, at least not here in Dubrovnik, only CIDP. RPW is also present in Montenegro. Alot of CIDP are killed there too.  

Edited November 8, 2017 by Cikas

[Xenon]

How is the Atlantic coast (Portugal, Spain, France) faring? 

[Monòver]

4 hours ago, cartridge said:

Hi Monover,

Until 2013/2014, Menton at the french riviera was one of the last places where the RPW were unknown. This was one of the reasons why I like this place so much. Thousands of healthy CIDP. A Top destination for a palm lover like me.
Google-Street View Pic from 2014. A perfect world.
https://www.google.ch/maps/@43.7842163,7.5270957,2a,75y,27.46h,91.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdMN7e2n4mID2_Dcj5U6nbw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0
But it’s over now. More and more CIDPs get infested. Like this one. Google-Street View Pic from oct, 2016.

https://www.google.ch/maps/@43.7835544,7.5152496,3a,75y,346.02h,86.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spMkLW2Z-zs4R7uuNhFMgww!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0
Same Palms in 2017.
http://propalmes83.com/images/photos/Menton01/160128-menton-em06.jpg
You can see that the left one is also infested.
I can't visit this place any longer. I think I' will get a heart attack next time. Same in Italy (Sicily) After my last visit in 2009. I was not there anymore. I saw hundreds of infested and dead CIDP.

Yes , same problem in every places in Europe.

But if you are a palm lover and you need to enjoy a holidays with palms, beach, sun and the best food in the world, lol, you can visit southern Spain. 

You will see 180.000 Phoenix dactyliferas growing together in Elche, and  lots of different species in the botanical gardens in Valencia, Elche and Málaga.

44 minutes ago, Xenon said:

How is the Atlantic coast (Portugal, Spain, France) faring? 

Same, it is in Portugal,Northen Spain and i think, near atlantic France.

[cartridge]

1 hour ago, Monòver said:

But if you are a palm lover and you need to enjoy a holidays with palms, beach, sun and the best food in the world, lol, you can visit southern Spain.

My biggest hope for the CIDPs at Southern France, North Italy is that the next winter will be very cold. ;) I think the CIDP can survive temperatures down to -5°C without any problem. That should be much lower as the temperature that the tropical RPW can withstand. The problem is the larva lives in the palm trees which protect it from cold.

 

[Cikas]

1 hour ago, cartridge said:

My biggest hope for the CIDPs at Southern France, North Italy is that the next winter will be very cold. ;) I think the CIDP can survive temperatures down to -5°C without any problem. That should be much lower as the temperature that the tropical RPW can withstand. The problem is the larva lives in the palm trees which protect it from cold.

 

It will not help. Larvas are safe in palms. If palms survive the cold, larvas inside will also survive.

Artic blast last winter here was the coldest in last 50 years. And RPW survived without any problem. And new CIDP are attacked in spring and summer this year..

[Monòver]

Yes, cold is not a problem for larvae. They are inside the palm tree between rotted trunk. The fermentation keeps the area hot, too hot. When i am cutting infested palms in Winter, inside the trunk the temperature is 30°C.

[Cikas]

Some photos from Dubrovnik ( Croatia ). It is sad, because some of these palms are 100-200 years old.

[Monòver]

Horrible!!!

[Anthony_B]

This thread is truly heartbreaking.

[Palmensammler]

Unbelievable, hard to see all these palms dying. 

Eckhard

[cartridge]

39 minutes ago, Cikas said:

Artic blast last winter here was the coldest in last 50 years. And RPW survived without any problem. And new CIDP are attacked in spring and summer this year..

terrible

because

"- Pupae and adults are killed by > 2 weeks below 5°C."

https://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjJmJqY_q_XAhXHOhoKHSoqAgoQFggnMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure.fera.defra.gov.uk%2Fpalmprotect%2FdownloadDocument.cfm%3Fid%3D306&usg=AOvVaw3ItxnkGZO1oBa39zkqWn3r

[Cikas]

30 minutes ago, cartridge said:

terrible

because

"- Pupae and adults are killed by > 2 weeks below 5°C."

https://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjJmJqY_q_XAhXHOhoKHSoqAgoQFggnMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsecure.fera.defra.gov.uk%2Fpalmprotect%2FdownloadDocument.cfm%3Fid%3D306&usg=AOvVaw3ItxnkGZO1oBa39zkqWn3r

Adults do not live long anyway. Larvas are the problem, and they are protected by palms. And they create new generations of adults every spring and summer.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Cikas

[lapalmeraie]

On 2-11-2017 15:35:39, Phoenikakias said:

Dude, some prety accurate information. Of course there are still much more to be added. BUT why have you not included south eastern Europe in the distribution sector? Both those damned insect are present for example in both Croatia and Greece.  And lately I heard reports about the presence of Paysandisia in north western France and across the channel.

Thank you! You're completely right...the article was initially written for my French visitors but now as it is translated I should be enlarged to at least southern Europe as well. And so I did 

I don't like to speculate on the distribution and I think we should be careful not the mix up the RPW spread with the palm butterfly, which is fare more spread due to its ability to cross longer distances. Therefor I created a RPW and butterfly map. It was by example the butterfly which was present in the UK but which is eradicated now. Portugal isn't listed as confirmed presence for the butterfly so I left it blanc till I get a reliable confirmation.

Red color on my map means present, lighter colored means restricted presence and very bright red means transient or rarely spotted.
I also included links to the CABI site which documents invasive species. 

Kr

Niek

[cartridge]

On my last visit at Menton (French Riviera) in 2014 all CIDP looked good and healthy except this one. This palm shows obviously signs of infestation. I knew it. The weevil/larvae is inside but nobody saw it? 2 years later the catastrophe grows rapidly. I'm shocked about the Google-Street-View Pics from 2016.

This and a lot of other old/monumental CIDPs are gone. So sad.

 

same place 2015.

https://www.google.ch/maps/@43.7749958,7.5000044,3a,75y,290.16h,101.43t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s-tiMA-M3pVZzROc3EDZPhA!2e0!5s20150501T000000!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0

and 2016

https://www.google.ch/maps/@43.775004,7.4999865,3a,75y,291.75h,102.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s3rugj1GmsM9e85h-hzqvVQ!2e0!5s20160501T000000!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0

Edited November 9, 2017 by cartridge

[cartridge]

2 hours ago, cartridge said:

 at Menton (French Riviera)

in Menton on the French Riviera

[Monòver]

After 11 days the palm tree looks like this. 

The grow point looks healthy. 

[lapalmeraie]

Wow! 

[PalmTreeDude]

Stupid weevils! Go eat invasive grasses! We need a "cure for this, CIDPs can look beautiful and ancient and these are just coming and and killing them so quickly! 

[Kris]

Hi,

Found these videos on palm treatment against Red Weevil :

 

 

.