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Advice needed for a Bismark palm


MiamiNorm

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Hello. I have a beautiful-looking Bismarck palm that was planted 6 years ago. Though it looks healthy and green, the center palms are opening inside the others (see pictures). The center fronds should be taller than the bottom ones before opening, no? Like with normal palm behavior. I have fertilized it a couple of times with palm tree fertilizer, and a few months back, some fronds opened up rotten right away, and I cut them. It gets watered with well water every other day.

1. Is it possible that the plants around the palm tree are suffocating it? I don't think so since those roots are shallow.

2. A visiting arborist mentioned that when these palms are potted for sale, the roots spiral around. When you plan them, those spiraling roots continue to swirl around, and the palm slowly chokes itself and dies slowly. Could that be happening? No, right since the fronds look big and healthy??

The picture called bismark april shows it ack in april with big fronds. Hurricane Irma blew by and damaged most of those fronds, so I had to cut them. The other pictures are from this morning. This past weekend, I accidentally pushed on the palm while I was cleaning, and LOTS of big red carpenter ants (perhaps) came out all along the center. Could they be damaging the plant's insides somehow if there is a lot of rot inside???

bismark april.jpg

20171012_090450.jpg

20171012_090456.jpg

20171012_090505.jpg

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Dear Norman,

Those plants around the foot of bismarkia palm must go.And avoid watering that palms leaf area.I.e if the leaves are dusty never spray water to clean the palm crown area.Problem usually starts from there.

The fertz required for palms are different from the plants around the palm.i.e all nutrition required for the palm is totally used up by the plants surrounding it.And that palm does not require regular watering like the plants around it.

If you are very particular of the health of your palm,then the plants around its trunk must go.And see the change in a couple of months time.

Love,

Kris.

 

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love conquers all..

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Btw. For the red ants buy some powder from Horticulture shop and use it on weekly basis.Once the bushy plants are removed and direct sunlight keeps falling on the trunk and roots of your palm these pests and insects will vanish automatically.

 

 

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love conquers all..

43278.gif

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2. A visiting arborist mentioned that when these palms are potted for sale, the roots spiral around. When you plan them, those spiraling roots continue to swirl around, and the palm slowly chokes itself and dies slowly. Could that be happening? No, right since the fronds look big and healthy??

A palms isn't a dicot so this is 100% BS.  Your arborist just described what can occur with an Oak or Cypress , not a palm .

 

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Thank you Kris and Texas.

The fertilizer I have used has been for palm trees, but more than likely, the plants around the trunk have been eating that up, correct?

I shall remove the plants around and let it heal. Do I remove the old, dry, and brown frond segments that are still attached? Or leave them be? When I've pulled them back, I usually see a white moist powder along the center, which is probably some type of fungus.

Thanks again

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Iam a person who likes chemical fertz,pesticides and fungicide.Once you remove the plants around the trunk,when sunlight starts falling on the trunk lower portion all your palm related problems are going to vanish.

For a couple of months don't disturb the palm physically.i.e let the old dry fronds remain as they are.Once you see improvement on the part of the palm start a mild spray of broad spectrum fungicide on the area where you see that white dust.This would help your palm very much.

After all those work,update us...

BTW. Bismarkia silver form is also my favorite palm,and i fondly call this palm as busy lady.Since its beautiful and feminine.Unlike the thorny phoenix.

 

Edited by Kris
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love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

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5 minutes ago, Kris said:

Iam a person who likes chemical fertz,pesticides and fungicide.Once you remove the plants around the trunk,when sunlight starts falling on the trunk lower portion all your palm related problems are going to vanish.

For a couple of months don't disturb the palm physically.i.e let the old dry fronds remain as they are.Once you see improvement on the part of the palm start a mild spray of broad spectrum fungicide on the area where you see that white dust.This would help your palm very much.

After all all those work,update us...

 

+1 on this

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  • 4 weeks later...

Ok. I removed all surrounding plants, spread some fertilizer, and let nature do its thing. The exterior fronds still look bizarre because they opened too low, and the new fronds are so deep inside that they won't have room to open properly.  I had to peel back a frond to take the picture.

Do I just need to let it to whatever it needs to do? Or should I trim around so that the new ones can open?

20171109_081427.jpg

Edited by MiamiNorm
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Don't trim, you will be removing some of it's lungs. :D

It will probably grow past this phase of recovery.

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Cheers Steve

It is not dead, it is just senescence.

   

 

 

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Great advice given! Looking forward to update pics in a few months!

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Naples (inland), FL - technically 10a but more like 9b in the winter :hmm:

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Thank you all, and I will let it be. At the moment it looks like some school project gone bad that has no fix. It still looks like the 3 last pictures that I attached to the opening post - some sort of modern art, funky exhibit.

I hope that it heals well because at one point it was a beautiful palm with gorgeous fronds.

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Yes no overhead water, but also you should not be watering a bismarckia so frequently in miami.  Twice a week in summer, perhaps once a week in winter.  this is a palm with a DEEP root system and when the roots are continually wet they die back to a shorter depth and the palm will undergo atrophy.  I have grown 7 to adult size, currently have (2) at about 20' overall in sarasota area.  Mine are watered 2x a week in sandy soil for 30 mins.  I shut off irrigation in the cold weather(<60F). This palm does well in florida without supplemental irrigation once established.  in its native range in madagascar this palm gets VERY little water half the year(the cool dry season), then gets rain water in the heat.  In sarasota area where the soil tends to drain well and is mostly sandy, these are planted as public landscape trees and after a few years they have no irrigation systems fail and arent repaired and do very well.  In miami the soil is often rocky and doesnt drain as well and miami gets a little more rain than sarasota.  So this is likely an extreme case of overwatering.  I killed one years ago by planting it in a rose garden in arizona.  I thought by digging a 5' hole and ammending with sand and soil mix it would be OK to water the nearby roses every other day.  the palm first lost its bluish grey wax on the leaves, went green/yellow and was killed in a cold snap where 3 other bizzies survived with moderate damage, mainly to lower leaves.  When I pulled it out, I saw rotted roots to 4' deep.  I would stop watering this palm altogether for the winter and see what happens in spring. 

  • Upvote 2

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Here is my smaller of 2 bizzies, watered 2x a week in summer and 1x or less in winter.  My irrigation also has a rain shutoff so it doesnt water when it rains within a couple days of the scheduled water.

smallBiz.thumb.PNG.53f7cd9b4ed96fe2f925b

  • Upvote 5

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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5 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Here is my smaller of 2 bizzies, watered 2x a week in summer and 1x or less in winter.  My irrigation also has a rain shutoff so it doesnt water when it rains within a couple days of the scheduled water.

smallBiz.thumb.PNG.53f7cd9b4ed96fe2f925b

Dear Tom,

Your Bizzy palm rocks.Very beautiful and well taken care of. :greenthumb:

Thanks for the visual.

Love,

Kris.

love conquers all..

43278.gif

.

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Good point Nakheel. I threw the bag away and have the fertilizer in a container, so I don't know what minerals it contains.

In its good days, the fronds were grey/blueish and beautiful. The fronds that manage to open up now ("manage" because they are so tight in there) are greenish yellow.

Edited by MiamiNorm
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deformation of fronds is a classic Mn deficiency syndrome.  But I had a bizzie recover from cold with short petiole growth before opening and then being shorter than the surrounding older leaves, it took a year to grow out of it.  Watering every other day by my neighbor (in watering his grass) killed  my butia yatay.  there are a lot of palms that like this, every other day watering, butias and bismarckia are not among them.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Uggh after reading your post I went out to look my little guy over. Same issue, but no surrounding plants. I pulled up some grass around the base, hope that helps.  Feeling your pain. Jacksonville Florida . 

20171115_145332-747x1328.jpg

20171115_145058-747x1328.jpg

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11 hours ago, Nakheel1412 said:

Hi,

Since everything was ok for several years, maybe your palm suffers from a mineral deficiency (manganese?) : http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ep273#FIGURE

If your fertilizer provides all the suspected elements, that might not be the reason though :(

Is it possible to buy Manganese by itself? if yes, where? I doubt that HD has it, and I may have to go to Lesco nearby to inquire.

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2 hours ago, MiamiNorm said:

Is it possible to buy Manganese by itself? if yes, where? I doubt that HD has it, and I may have to go to Lesco nearby to inquire.

I have some soluble manganese available that we use for fertigation. Send me a pm.

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19 hours ago, MiamiNorm said:

Is it possible to buy Manganese by itself? if yes, where? I doubt that HD has it, and I may have to go to Lesco nearby to inquire.

I bought MnSO4 years ago to correct "frizzle top" in queen palms, but it was from a garden center that sold palms.  Worked very well, but I recall yuou had to be careful applying it to plants in the ground(containers are easy to rinse excess out).  Too much Mn is a problem, plants can get Mn toxicity, apply carefully a little at a time.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Boron deficiency can also cause deformation or stunting of the new leaves.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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21 hours ago, MiamiNorm said:

Is it possible to buy Manganese by itself? if yes, where? I doubt that HD has it, and I may have to go to Lesco nearby to inquire.

Yes it is, @sonoranfans has given the answer : manganese(II) sulfate ;

Unfortunetly I don't know where you can find it in Miami, but locals can probably answer that question ;
(Here I found a company that sells it for agricultural purposes)

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21 hours ago, MiamiNorm said:

Is it possible to buy Manganese by itself? if yes, where? I doubt that HD has it, and I may have to go to Lesco nearby to inquire.


Yes it is, @sonoranfans kindly gave the answer : manganese(II) sulfate

Unfortunetly I don't know where you can find it in Miami, but locals can probably answer that question ;
(Here I found a company that sells it for agricultural purposes ;
On amazon, here's one example : https://www.amazon.com/Southern-Ag-Manganese-Sulfate-5lb/dp/B00C2TTPEE )

Edited by Nakheel1412
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  • 2 weeks later...

My poor bizmie, that continues to gasp for air in the ICU of plant life. This morning i saw a white, humid, semi granular patch along the base of one of the dried up frond (i can't upload a picture nor delete previous ones). 

What do I do? 

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these are easy palms to grow in florida, I have 6 neighbors who just stuck them in the ground and water 2x a week, no special fertilizer or anything.   Something happened here in terms of causing this palm to go down hill .  Irma may have caused root damage which could lead to that decline.   Bizzies can be sensitive to root damage.  You may have to start anew and chalk it up to irma.  But its the wrong palm to put in a flower garden, doesn't like being wet all the time.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello all

With great sadness, I report that my bizzie has probably reached the end of it's life. That last frond that stuck out from deep in the middle has rotted. It can be pulled out easily by hand, and the base of it is a paste of liquid brown that looks like avocado meat, sort of. And that middle hole and the frond that is loose smell horribly. While the outside of the trunk looks healthy and brown as normal, there are no more fronds and the inside is probably a rotten paste.

We are planning on giving ourselves another bizzie palm for Christmas after removing this one. We would like to plant it in the same spot since it's at the front of the house and has plenty of room. We've concluded and made up our minds that our palm got sick, and that's what killed it after once being healthy and beautiful.

My lessons learned:
1. I need to water it less, and I have changed the sprinkler heads so that they dont reach that spot.
2. When it was healthy, I used to cut the low hanging fronds whenever they hung slightly beyond 90 degrees (straight horizontal). Perhaps that was a mistake????

If anyone knows a good and cheaper place in Miami to buy them, kindly share. I am thankful for all of the assistance received on this thread.

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Yes the description of its demise indicates over watering.  Next time you plant one you can guard against this by ammending a deeper hole with sand and watering 2x a week in summer, less in the cold.  these are easy grows in florida.  Some of my neighbors use any old fertilizer and they still look nice.  Our HOA wont allow more than 2x a week and we are all on the same well so they shut off your water except two days a week.  All the bizzies planted along my street(they imitated my planting of bizzies) are all doing fine, nice silver colors, no obvious green on any of them.  If I were buying a bizzie I start with a 5-15 gallon as they grow very fast.  the ~20 footer I planted in my post above was a sick(overwatered and moldy, 2 leaves and a spear) 5 gallon bought from home depot in late 2010.  

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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22 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Yes the description of its demise indicates over watering.  Next time you plant one you can guard against this by ammending a deeper hole with sand and watering 2x a week in summer, less in the cold.  these are easy grows in florida.  Some of my neighbors use any old fertilizer and they still look nice.  Our HOA wont allow more than 2x a week and we are all on the same well so they shut off your water except two days a week.  All the bizzies planted along my street(they imitated my planting of bizzies) are all doing fine, nice silver colors, no obvious green on any of them.  If I were buying a bizzie I start with a 5-15 gallon as they grow very fast.  the ~20 footer I planted in my post above was a sick(overwatered and moldy, 2 leaves and a spear) 5 gallon bought from home depot in late 2010.  

thank you sonorafans

We're contemplating the idea of getting seeds and starting from complete scratch since you mentioned that they are fast growers. The neighbor behind me has a very tall and healthy one that has plenty of hanging flowers/fruit (I'm not sure). It has some stalks that contain some cherry looking round balls that I assume to be the flower/fruit. I'm sure that the neighbor won't mind letting us grab some since he doesn't do anything to the palm; perhaps he may have some seeds that have fallen and germinated, and maybe we can even grab one or 2 of those.

So our plan is to remove the existing bizzie that has rotted, perhaps plan some seeds, letting them germinate, and then pick a good one to plant properly (dig a deeper hole). These are expensive palms, and if they grow fast why not start from a seed????

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  • 3 years later...

I recently 2weeks ago had a 10 ft Bismarck Palm planted. One side is yellowing and now some tips on other side as well! I water 30 min every day for new landscaping. Landscaper just says water frequently and now says dribble hose with no time limit? Any advice.

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Hi Sherlyn, welcome to the forum. 

If you can post a pic it would help people take a stab at the problem,

and if you can put your area that will also help. Locals always have the best advice.

And if you have not just read through the entire thread, that may help too.

Sorry that I can't help more at this stage.

Cheers Steve

It is not dead, it is just senescence.

   

 

 

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On 4/16/2021 at 7:11 AM, Sherlyn Eukovich said:

I recently 2weeks ago had a 10 ft Bismarck Palm planted. One side is yellowing and now some tips on other side as well! I water 30 min every day for new landscaping. Landscaper just says water frequently and now says dribble hose with no time limit? Any advice.

you will need to post a pic to see if the yellowing is actually a serious issue, might be a minor planting disturbance.

Edited by sonoranfans

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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On 12/15/2017 at 7:07 AM, MiamiNorm said:

thank you sonorafans

We're contemplating the idea of getting seeds and starting from complete scratch since you mentioned that they are fast growers. The neighbor behind me has a very tall and healthy one that has plenty of hanging flowers/fruit (I'm not sure). It has some stalks that contain some cherry looking round balls that I assume to be the flower/fruit. I'm sure that the neighbor won't mind letting us grab some since he doesn't do anything to the palm; perhaps he may have some seeds that have fallen and germinated, and maybe we can even grab one or 2 of those.

So our plan is to remove the existing bizzie that has rotted, perhaps plan some seeds, letting them germinate, and then pick a good one to plant properly (dig a deeper hole). These are expensive palms, and if they grow fast why not start from a seed????

You are seeing things just like me.  Even the cost of planting a 10 foot palm may involve a bobcat rental, and they do charge a lot for big specimens.   Bizzies are fast Im sure yur neighbor would be delighted if you cleaned up his fruit even one time.  My fruiting female, a little under 30'  tall, drops 100-200lbs of fruit a year.  If you are even in the area you are welcome to it.  When it comes down in summer, its a carpet of fruit and If I dont clean it up it rots and stinks.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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  • 4 weeks later...

We planted this beauty 18 months ago.  Has been doing great until I noticed a  band of discoloration, dry spots running across the center of the fronds.  Will try to post a pic.

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