Was Brahea armata ever native to USA?

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Any anecdotal evidence that Brahea armata once ranged into SoCal? If not, how close to the border is the nearest stand?

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According to SEINet the closest to the border is about 30 miles.

Tom Birt - Casas Adobes, AZ

Hi 98°, Lo 59°

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So close, yet so far away :-(

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If you think about it, political boundaries aren’t the best way to gauge if something is native. So if you’re in Southern California 30 miles away from native stands of Brahea armata, you can say that they are not a native plant. Yet in the same spot you can tell yourself that the coast Redwood is native because it’s native hundreds of miles away in a different part of California where the climate is nothing like the deserts adjacent to Mexico. 

Brahea armata is native to a certain ecosystem and that ecosystem ignores political boundaries and is the same on either side of the border. I used a similar logic in Arizona, there are a handful of palo verde tree species native in AZ, but palo brea (my favorite) is native in adjacent areas of Mexico and is not native to AZ. Yet it is native to the Sonoran desert and the Sonoran desert spans large areas on either side of the border, so I say that palo brea is native because it’s native to the Sonoran desert and is perfectly adapted to the conditions in southern Arizona. 

Sure I understand that it would be nice to know that plant xyz is native to your favorite state/country, but in the sense of ecological zones you may still be able to claim native I say. 

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^^ Couldn't agree more. 

Taking it a step further, if asked, many people would assume that the Genus Quercus, aka Oaks, are strictly from, or originated in temperate regions of the globe.  Interestingly, Mexico, of all places, has an extremely high number of such species and many of the ones native to California ( ..and Arizona/Texas/New Mexico for that matter) likely originated south of the border.

Over the past couple decades, those who have been able to obtain, cultivate, and distribute some of the most impressive species from Mexico, have come to find out that several take remarkable cold ( for where they originate) ...enough so that species like Q. Insignis, rhysophylla, and mcvaughii are being trialed in places like zone 8/ cold 9a regions of Texas, Northern Florida, or Southern Carolina with success ( thus far)  FYI, these are some of the most " tropical-looking" species in the Genus.

Coming back to the question, i would not be surprised if B. Armada's range did sneak into some part of far So. Cal. at some point in the past. If i remember correctly, thinking it has been encountered in a very isolated canyon somewhere near Yuma also. The border region near Otay Mtn. harbors some rare species that barely extend into the state, yet are more common 20-70 miles further south. Isolated populations of a scrubby Oak species, Quercus cedrosensis, if I remember correctly, occurs near this part of San Diego, and down on Cedros Island in Baja. 

Remember, California's climate has hosted plants ( or similar looking cousins ) which you currently wouldn't encounter until well into Baja, or mainland areas of Sonora, Mexico. So the possibility of  " native" armata.. and maybe other palm sp. not currently known to occur in the state naturally at some point well before anyone notice, is not hard to imagine. In theory, a bird can fly 30mi with a belly full of Brahea seed, destined to be deposited in a remote canyon just north of the border, thus reintroducing it if conditions are right for any potential seedlings to survive past germination.  With things shifting around a bit, I won't be surprised to see other stuff creep north again as well. Just some thoughts.

 

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On 10/3/2017, 5:40:48, Xerarch said:

If you think about it, political boundaries aren’t the best way to gauge if something is native. So if you’re in Southern California 30 miles away from native stands of Brahea armata, you can say that they are not a native plant. Yet in the same spot you can tell yourself that the coast Redwood is native because it’s native hundreds of miles away in a different part of California where the climate is nothing like the deserts adjacent to Mexico. 

Brahea armata is native to a certain ecosystem and that ecosystem ignores political boundaries and is the same on either side of the border. I used a similar logic in Arizona, there are a handful of palo verde tree species native in AZ, but palo brea (my favorite) is native in adjacent areas of Mexico and is not native to AZ. Yet it is native to the Sonoran desert and the Sonoran desert spans large areas on either side of the border, so I say that palo brea is native because it’s native to the Sonoran desert and is perfectly adapted to the conditions in southern Arizona. 

Sure I understand that it would be nice to know that plant xyz is native to your favorite state/country, but in the sense of ecological zones you may still be able to claim native I say. 

I agree 100%

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On 10/3/2017, 5:40:48, Xerarch said:

If you think about it, political boundaries aren’t the best way to gauge if something is native. So if you’re in Southern California 30 miles away from native stands of Brahea armata, you can say that they are not a native plant. Yet in the same spot you can tell yourself that the coast Redwood is native because it’s native hundreds of miles away in a different part of California where the climate is nothing like the deserts adjacent to Mexico. 

Brahea armata is native to a certain ecosystem and that ecosystem ignores political boundaries and is the same on either side of the border. I used a similar logic in Arizona, there are a handful of palo verde tree species native in AZ, but palo brea (my favorite) is native in adjacent areas of Mexico and is not native to AZ. Yet it is native to the Sonoran desert and the Sonoran desert spans large areas on either side of the border, so I say that palo brea is native because it’s native to the Sonoran desert and is perfectly adapted to the conditions in southern Arizona. 

Sure I understand that it would be nice to know that plant xyz is native to your favorite state/country, but in the sense of ecological zones you may still be able to claim native I say. 

Love the points you make!

But, what is native to where is often a matter of politics (or legal-tics), and I'll shut up while I'm ahead, unless someone needs some clarification. . . .

(Is the northern Sonoran Desert the same as the southern, perhaps hundreds of miles apart?)

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On 10/3/2017, 6:46:51, Silas_Sancona said:

^^ Couldn't agree more. 

Taking it a step further, if asked, many people would assume that the Genus Quercus, aka Oaks, are strictly from, or originated in temperate regions of the globe.  Interestingly, Mexico, of all places, has an extremely high number of such species and many of the ones native to California ( ..and Arizona/Texas/New Mexico for that matter) likely originated south of the border.

Over the past couple decades, those who have been able to obtain, cultivate, and distribute some of the most impressive species from Mexico, have come to find out that several take remarkable cold ( for where they originate) ...enough so that species like Q. Insignis, rhysophylla, and mcvaughii are being trialed in places like zone 8/ cold 9a regions of Texas, Northern Florida, or Southern Carolina with success ( thus far)  FYI, these are some of the most " tropical-looking" species in the Genus.

Coming back to the question, i would not be surprised if B. Armada's range did sneak into some part of far So. Cal. at some point in the past. If i remember correctly, thinking it has been encountered in a very isolated canyon somewhere near Yuma also. The border region near Otay Mtn. harbors some rare species that barely extend into the state, yet are more common 20-70 miles further south. Isolated populations of a scrubby Oak species, Quercus cedrosensis, if I remember correctly, occurs near this part of San Diego, and down on Cedros Island in Baja. 

Remember, California's climate has hosted plants ( or similar looking cousins ) which you currently wouldn't encounter until well into Baja, or mainland areas of Sonora, Mexico. So the possibility of  " native" armata.. and maybe other palm sp. not currently known to occur in the state naturally at some point well before anyone notice, is not hard to imagine. In theory, a bird can fly 30mi with a belly full of Brahea seed, destined to be deposited in a remote canyon just north of the border, thus reintroducing it if conditions are right for any potential seedlings to survive past germination.  With things shifting around a bit, I won't be surprised to see other stuff creep north again as well. Just some thoughts.

 

Climate change is nothing new, though some say human agency is new. Plants move where the climate is right, or they grow if dropped there.

Another interesting example of climate surprises is how hardy some of the palms of Formosa and Jamaica, both tropical islands, can be. Or, how Pinanga javana thrives in my decidedly non-tropical garden.

 

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All very good points. Humans have played a role in expanding (and limiting) the range of plants and animals. I think that with the advent of the internet, and 'modern' transportation infrastructure, we are playing an accelerated role in expanding the range of plant species. I mean, Medemia argun seems to be thriving in the deserts of Arizona and California! Phoenix canariensis have naturalized in northern CA along the Kings River - all thanks to intrepid gardeners like us. Who knows whether B. armata may escape cultivation and naturalize in California, thus becoming "native" from that point on. Like @DoomsDave said, what we regard as native is arbitrary. It's determined by taking a snapshot of an ecosystem at a set point in geological time and using that as the determinant of native-ness. What if you were to take the snapshot now, and regard any newcomers as non-native from this point on? In California, eucalyptus, washingtonia robusta, pheonix canariensis etc. would gain native status because there are self-sustaining populations of those species in the state. 

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On 10/3/2017, 6:46:51, Silas_Sancona said:

^^ Couldn't agree more. 

Taking it a step further, if asked, many people would assume that the Genus Quercus, aka Oaks, are strictly from, or originated in temperate regions of the globe.  Interestingly, Mexico, of all places, has an extremely high number of such species and many of the ones native to California ( ..and Arizona/Texas/New Mexico for that matter) likely originated south of the border.

Over the past couple decades, those who have been able to obtain, cultivate, and distribute some of the most impressive species from Mexico, have come to find out that several take remarkable cold ( for where they originate) ...enough so that species like Q. Insignis, rhysophylla, and mcvaughii are being trialed in places like zone 8/ cold 9a regions of Texas, Northern Florida, or Southern Carolina with success ( thus far)  FYI, these are some of the most " tropical-looking" species in the Genus.

Coming back to the question, i would not be surprised if B. Armada's range did sneak into some part of far So. Cal. at some point in the past. If i remember correctly, thinking it has been encountered in a very isolated canyon somewhere near Yuma also. The border region near Otay Mtn. harbors some rare species that barely extend into the state, yet are more common 20-70 miles further south. Isolated populations of a scrubby Oak species, Quercus cedrosensis, if I remember correctly, occurs near this part of San Diego, and down on Cedros Island in Baja. 

Remember, California's climate has hosted plants ( or similar looking cousins ) which you currently wouldn't encounter until well into Baja, or mainland areas of Sonora, Mexico. So the possibility of  " native" armata.. and maybe other palm sp. not currently known to occur in the state naturally at some point well before anyone notice, is not hard to imagine. In theory, a bird can fly 30mi with a belly full of Brahea seed, destined to be deposited in a remote canyon just north of the border, thus reintroducing it if conditions are right for any potential seedlings to survive past germination.  With things shifting around a bit, I won't be surprised to see other stuff creep north again as well. Just some thoughts.

 

well said!!

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Wanted to share this for all interested,. Or, if you hadn't yet read it..

Came across this recent study while doing additional detective work. Thought it might also be a perfect complement to the original question. Was completed in May of this year and involves both Brahea and Washingtonia.

Way too long to rehash here but numerous insights into both Genus. To find it, (lengthy, have a few minutes to read it over, lots of Science jargon) look up: "Molecular genetic analysis of two native desert palm genera, Washingtonia and Brahea, from the Baja California Peninsula and Guadalupe island". Anastasia Klimova,  Joseph l. Hoffman, and Alfredo Ortega-Rubio. 

..after reading it, share your thoughts, if any. 

 

 

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 After GMann's Drone footage post, thought a quick re-visit to this thread might be in order. 

 Human-drawn borders aside,  After additional detective work late last night,  Brahea armata's  currently observed range might just extend a bit closer to the CA / Mex border than what even i suspected.  While inconclusive without first hand observation, collection of voucher material, & photo documentation in these suspect places, ( current Google earth resolution is low within the area i sampled / explored, particularly just south of the border. Hard to zoom in)   2 questions crossed my mind:

1, Just how close are the northern-most * wild * B. armata specimen(s)?  2, Where could any potential transition between where Washingtonia filifera occurrence drops off, and B. armata picks up occur?  East-facing canyons within 33 miles of the border offer up some interesting clues.

While any answers might not be of any interest to some people, those same answers could be of interest to others, especially when attempting to determine a species range.. Me personally, the more we learn.., the more we can teach.. Plain and simple.. 

As stated earlier, the closest, currently documented specimens occur roughly 30-32 miles south of the border, in an area known as Guadalupe Canyon Hot Springs, and another canyon just 3.09 miles to the North / Northwest. Close inspection of canyon corridors north of there, north to the border, reveal what may be additional sites where armata grows. Again however, up-close resolution in most of the spots i'll post below is low, so it's hard to get in as close as possible to gain more insight, though it's not hard to tell there are palms growing in each spot.  Just north of the border, resolution is better and one can easily observe groves of what are likely Washingtonia filifera in some canyons at 32 deg 38' 22.08'' N by 116 deg 01' 48.00" W.. for the GPS savy. Anyway, 

Some additional  Google earth GPS coordinates to explore, and share your thoughts on, if you like..:

Isolated grove at 32 deg 36' 27.32" N by 116 deg 00' 46.37 N.. 1.40 miles S. of the Border.

Another at 32 deg 24' 18.91" N by 115 deg 51' 12.14" W  Approx. 16.26 Mi. from the border or 10 mi. S.E. of Agua Grande.

 ..and at 32 deg 22' 27.73" N by 115 Deg 51' 12.14 W Approx 3.10 miles W.N.W. of La Ponderosa

Perhaps the best location: ( and also good *up-close* zoom resolution here) 32 deg 15' 27.40" N by 115 deg 54' 54.60" W  Approx 3.98 mi E.N.E. of El Topo, in the drainage starting just below the top of Canyon El Tajo, Approx. 25.84 mi south of the border. Sure looks like lots of B. armata here.
 
Following any of the canyons in locations i listed above, you'll see more spots containing potential palm groves as well.  Big question now is.. Just which species are they?

 

Edited by Silas_Sancona
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I tried to follow the coordinates and only was able to locate this last one near El Topo.

 

Dropped Pin
near Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico
https://goo.gl/maps/cvE5YF6hynp

 

 

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18 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

 After GMann's Drone footage post, thought a quick re-visit to this thread might be in order. 

 Human-drawn borders aside,  After additional detective work late last night,  Brahea armata's  currently observed range might just extend a bit closer to the CA / Mex border than what even i suspected.  While inconclusive without first hand observation, collection of voucher material, & photo documentation in these suspect places, ( current Google earth resolution is low within the area i sampled / explored, particularly just south of the border. Hard to zoom in)   2 questions crossed my mind:

1, Just how close are the northern-most * wild * B. armata specimen(s)?  2, Where could any potential transition between where Washingtonia filifera occurrence drops off, and B. armata picks up occur?  East-facing canyons within 33 miles of the border offer up some interesting clues.

While any answers might not be of any interest to some people, those same answers could be of interest to others, especially when attempting to determine a species range.. Me personally, the more we learn.., the more we can teach.. Plain and simple.. 

As stated earlier, the closest, currently documented specimens occur roughly 30-32 miles south of the border, in an area known as Guadalupe Canyon Hot Springs, and another canyon just 3.09 miles to the North / Northwest. Close inspection of canyon corridors north of there, north to the border, reveal what may be additional sites where armata grows. Again however, up-close resolution in most of the spots i'll post below is low, so it's hard to get in as close as possible to gain more insight, though it's not hard to tell there are palms growing in each spot.  Just north of the border, resolution is better and one can easily observe groves of what are likely Washingtonia filifera in some canyons at 32 deg 38' 22.08'' N by 116 deg 01' 48.00" W.. for the GPS savy. Anyway, 

Some additional  Google earth GPS coordinates to explore, and share your thoughts on, if you like..:

Isolated grove at 32 deg 36' 27.32" N by 116 deg 00' 46.37 N.. 1.40 miles S. of the Border.

Another at 32 deg 24' 18.91" N by 115 deg 51' 12.14" W  Approx. 16.26 Mi. from the border or 10 mi. S.E. of Agua Grande.

 ..and at 32 deg 22' 27.73" N by 115 Deg 51' 12.14 W Approx 3.10 miles W.N.W. of La Ponderosa

Perhaps the best location: ( and also good *up-close* zoom resolution here) 32 deg 15' 27.40" N by 115 deg 54' 54.60" W  Approx 3.98 mi E.N.E. of El Topo, in the drainage starting just below the top of Canyon El Tajo, Approx. 25.84 mi south of the border. Sure looks like lots of B. armata here.
 
Following any of the canyons in locations i listed above, you'll see more spots containing potential palm groves as well.  Big question now is.. Just which species are they?

 

pretty sure these are all w. filifera although there are some robusta start around 31 degrees. If you use the date feature on google earth ad roll through some past images you will see that the ones below el tajo that look whiteish now turn washy green in past photos. I have spent a lot of time early at my shop tooling around on google earth and i did find an area with washies and b. armata together and there were photos to confirm it. Ill find it again. 

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I googled information on Canon del Tajo. It's apparently a rock climbing destination (Trono Blanco is the tallest granite monolith in Mexico) so luckily there are pictures online from other people's climbing and hiking trips. I found these from 2003. (These are not my photos, they were taken from here, and belong a a Victor Morales - perhaps the same Victor Morales from @GMann's post http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/58746-brahea-armata-canyons-by-drone/ )

 

Mostly W. filifera, but in the background on the left side appear what look like B. armata. 

5c0aae1830bdf_tajo2.thumb.jpg.8c5a8e4087

And B. armata are pretty visible here mixed with W. filifera. 

Tajo.thumb.jpg.27cc77b6f2c67b9010b196b1d

 

 

Edited by Josue Diaz
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here's the spot 

 32°11'4.89"N

115°49'43.49"W

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21 minutes ago, Stevetoad said:

here's the spot 

 32°11'4.89"N

115°49'43.49"W

a link to the coordinates here . It's for a canyon called Canon el Carrizo. Here are photos from a quick google search. 

Carrizo.jpg.de21d2e6f17b59bf4a28efa1206d

Mostly W. filifera, although the palm at the base of the two tall Washingtonias in the center appears rather blue. Perhaps B. armata? 

Carrizo1.jpg.5aaa68571b73f8f9e74b30ce7c7

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32 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

a link to the coordinates here . It's for a canyon called Canon el Carrizo. Here are photos from a quick google search. 

Carrizo.jpg.de21d2e6f17b59bf4a28efa1206d

Mostly W. filifera, although the palm at the base of the two tall Washingtonias in the center appears rather blue. Perhaps B. armata? 

Carrizo1.jpg.5aaa68571b73f8f9e74b30ce7c7

there used to be a photo on google earth from here. It was a really cool image because it had washies and b. armata together. of course now its gone. if you follow the canyon on GE you can see the silver crowns start on the west and eventually mix and turn into larger green crowns from the washies too.  of course there is  a chance that im just seeing unhealthy or dead crowns of washies too.  

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35 minutes ago, Stevetoad said:

there used to be a photo on google earth from here. It was a really cool image because it had washies and b. armata together. of course now its gone. if you follow the canyon on GE you can see the silver crowns start on the west and eventually mix and turn into larger green crowns from the washies too.  

:greenthumb: The difference in  apparent color / crown size is what caught my attention, particularly in the Canon del Tajo area. Also noticed the differences in image data going back to 2005.

At 32 15 13.11 N 115 55 00.95 W you can see what looks like a grove of Washingtonia on a slope to the west ( look greener, larger apparent crown ).  On another slope just north of that point, and another just south east, color looks more silvery ..bluish   and crown size appears smaller.. Not to say these are for sure B. armata, but the look of these is different. That same colored palm extends south down the same side of that arm of the Canyon, and higher up on a slope at 32 15 26.73 N 115 54 38.87 W.

Regardless of which species, neither Inaturalist or SEINet has recorded data, pictures of.., etc of either sp. from this location, or others north of there, to the border. Nearest photos of B. armata ( on Inaturalist) were taken at Guadalupe Canyon on the 20th of last month. The northern most wild armata recorded by SEINet was apparently made on 1-19-1997 just north of Guad. Canyon, in Carrizo Canyon. A similar gap in both site's data exists for Washnigtonia filifera in this region also.

 

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3 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

:greenthumb: The difference in  apparent color / crown size is what caught my attention, particularly in the Canon del Tajo area. Also noticed the differences in image data going back to 2005.

At 32 15 13.11 N 115 55 00.95 W you can see what looks like a grove of Washingtonia on a slope to the west ( look greener, larger apparent crown ).  On another slope just north of that point, and another just south east, color looks more silvery ..bluish   and crown size appears smaller.. Not to say these are for sure B. armata, but the look of these is different. That same colored palm extends south down the same side of that arm of the Canyon, and higher up on a slope at 32 15 26.73 N 115 54 38.87 W.

Regardless of which species, neither Inaturalist or SEINet has recorded data, pictures of.., etc of either sp. from this location, or others north of there, to the border. Nearest photos of B. armata ( on Inaturalist) were taken at Guadalupe Canyon on the 20th of last month. The northern most wild armata recorded by SEINet was apparently made on 1-19-1997 just north of Guad. Canyon, in Carrizo Canyon. A similar gap in both site's data exists for Washnigtonia filifera in this region also.

 

32 15 13.11 N 115 55 00.95 W  if you look at the image from 2005 you can see a pretty good contrast from blue crowns and green crowns. they sure look like b. armata to me too. wish i could scoot down there and take a look. 

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IF Brahea exists in the US, the most likely place would be one of a number of remote canyons within 20 miles of the Mexican border, particularly along the same mountain range where Canon del Tajo and Canon del Carrizo are. There are a handful of canyons on the US side that look to be populated with Washingtonia. It's possible B. armata might exist there also. This canyon on the US side is in that same mountain range and is full of palms you can see via Google Earth. It's no more than 20 miles from the canyons in Mexico where B Armata and W. filifera coexist. It's impossible to be certain without seeing them in person, but there are blue-ish looking palms here also. 

Capture1.PNG.70198d8d3eb0f2b4cf79067d6b7

Capture.thumb.PNG.c791088ba3b52c20ec62e8

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Josue Diaz said:

I googled information on Canon del Tajo. It's apparently a rock climbing destination (Trono Blanco is the tallest granite monolith in Mexico) so luckily there are pictures online from other people's climbing and hiking trips. I found these from 2003. (These are not my photos, they were taken from here, and belong a a Victor Morales - perhaps the same Victor Morales from @GMann's post http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/58746-brahea-armata-canyons-by-drone/ )

 

Mostly W. filifera, but in the background on the left side appear what look like B. armata. 

5c0aae1830bdf_tajo2.thumb.jpg.8c5a8e4087

And B. armata are pretty visible here mixed with W. filifera. 

Tajo.thumb.jpg.27cc77b6f2c67b9010b196b1d

 

 

Yes that is Victor in the green shirt. And yes that palm is a Brahea armata, and its not that surprising as there are also Braheas in Guadalupe Canyon nearby.

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16 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

IF Brahea exists in the US, the most likely place would be one of a number of remote canyons within 20 miles of the Mexican border, particularly along the same mountain range where Canon del Tajo and Canon del Carrizo are. There are a handful of canyons on the US side that look to be populated with Washingtonia. It's possible B. armata might exist there also. This canyon on the US side is in that same mountain range and is full of palms you can see via Google Earth. It's no more than 20 miles from the canyons in Mexico where B Armata and W. filifera coexist. It's impossible to be certain without seeing them in person, but there are blue-ish looking palms here also. 

Capture1.PNG.70198d8d3eb0f2b4cf79067d6b7

Capture.thumb.PNG.c791088ba3b52c20ec62e8

 

 

 

Ive been there a few times. Boarder patrol will run up on you very fast too. These are all w. filifera. At least all the ones I saw and we hiked pretty deep in there. I have photos somewhere too. 

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21 minutes ago, Stevetoad said:

32 15 13.11 N 115 55 00.95 W  if you look at the image from 2005 you can see a pretty good contrast from blue crowns and green crowns. they sure look like b. armata to me too. wish i could scoot down there and take a look. 

I hear ya.. Supposedly, Amor Ministries runs a Campground approx. 12.5 miles north of the mouth of Canon del Tajo.  No clue on whether it is a private institution or not but from the mouth of the canyon, to where the suspect B. armata appear to be growing is roughly a 6-8 mile hike per using Google Earth measurments. No idea on how long it might actually take but i myself can see pursuing week long trip to explore more there.

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Another thing to bear in mind, from my anecdotal experience is that Braheas like to be at higher elevations than Washingtonia, so maybe a canyon near the border at high elevation?

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Now I got the itch to go to the desert. The palm groves are only about an hour and a half from my house. Maybe Ill do a drone vid like Gmann

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9 minutes ago, GMann said:

Another thing to bear in mind, from my anecdotal experience is that Braheas like to be at higher elevations than Washingtonia, so maybe a canyon near the border at high elevation?

That was another thing that i noticed when looking at the various locations, and would suspect as well. Interesting....

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@Silas_Sancona, @Stevetoad @GMann If any of you ever want to throw out a trip to those canyons I'd be down to go. I backpack in the Sierras all the time and have backpacked Joshua Tree NP and the Hualapai mountains near the AZ/CA border. An 8 miler at low-elevation should be a piece of cake, especially following a canyon. I'd go for the hike/wilderness alone, but spotting washingtonia or brahea would just be icing on the cake. It would make for a fun PRA. 

 

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I love those kinds of trips. Keep me posted.

 

What's a PRA?

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6 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

@Silas_Sancona, @Stevetoad @GMann If any of you ever want to throw out a trip to those canyons I'd be down to go. I backpack in the Sierras all the time and have backpacked Joshua Tree NP and the Hualapai mountains near the AZ/CA border. An 8 miler at low-elevation should be a piece of cake, especially following a canyon. I'd go for the hike/wilderness alone, but spotting washingtonia or brahea would just be icing on the cake. It would make for a fun PRA. 

 

Im going to take my son (age 7) out there on the 26th or 27th. He cant really hike to far. Im mostly going to fly my drone and do some photography. I would like to do  a PRA out there though. 

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Just now, GMann said:

I love those kinds of trips. Keep me posted.

 

What's a PRA?

Palm Related Activity

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10 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

@Silas_Sancona, @Stevetoad @GMann If any of you ever want to throw out a trip to those canyons I'd be down to go. I backpack in the Sierras all the time and have backpacked Joshua Tree NP and the Hualapai mountains near the AZ/CA border. An 8 miler at low-elevation should be a piece of cake, especially following a canyon. I'd go for the hike/wilderness alone, but spotting washingtonia or brahea would just be icing on the cake. It would make for a fun PRA. 

 

Interested for sure, but likely wouldn't be until sometime next year, after the move. ..and i get my hiking legs back, lol.  

Tossing out a, possibly more enticing find.. Supposedly  a.. ( perhaps more than just one ) wild growing  Sabal uresana was recorded by SEINet somewhere down by Loreto in Baja Sur back in 2012 ( 11-22-2012 to be exact ) There are coordinates listed on the voucher page but i couldn't pin point a place using them.. Flew me to Africa when i put it into Google Earth, lol. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Tossing out a, possibly more enticing find.. Supposedly  a.. ( perhaps more than just one ) wild growing  Sabal uresana was recorded by SEINet somewhere down by Loreto in Baja Sur back in 2012 ( 11-22-2012 to be exact ) There are coordinates listed on the voucher page but i couldn't pin point a place using them.. Flew me to Africa when i put it into Google Earth, lol. 

 

This looks to be the GPS marker you were looking for in Baja. The description on SEINet's record says the occurence at this marker is "frequent". Google earth shows lots of palm silhouettes

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