Sabinaria magnifica died

[Missi]

I got my Sabinaria magnifica about 1.5 years ago. It was always in the 4" container it came in. The grower advised that it was time to pot it up into a 1 gallon container so it would start to push out larger leaves. I delicately did this and continued its care as usual. A couple weeks after the repotting, I noticed the leaves start to look sort of papery (darker green and no longer shiny) and curl in length-wise. The plant was no longer holding its leaves tightly, sort of loosely from the center. The leaves continued to curl and dry out, never becoming brown, but always staying the sickly dark green color with lack of shine. Finally the plant got spear pull. When I knew it was completely gone, I pulled it out of its substrate and inspected the roots. They were light brown in color, but had no odor (so assuming it wasn't any kind of rot). Any idea what might have sickened my plant per my description? 

[doranakandawatta]

Missi,

From what I saw on my Sabinaria roots, they are mostly white, so I am afraid the roots of your plant have rotten.

Sadly I can't imagine which temperature you had when you did this work, I am afraid it wasn't enough hot ...
I am used to Sri lankan tropical hot and humid climate which makes most of my repotted palms making new roots in few days. 

Sorry for your loss. I hope I'll not face the same situation soon !

[Missi]

1 hour ago, doranakandawatta said:

Missi,

From what I saw on my Sabinaria roots, they are mostly white, so I am afraid the roots of your plant have rotten.

Sadly I can't imagine which temperature you had when you did this work, I am afraid it wasn't enough hot ...
I am used to Sri lankan tropical hot and humid climate which makes most of my repotted palms making new roots in few days. 

Sorry for your loss. I hope I'll not face the same situation soon !

It is Summer in Florida, so I'm sure it was plenty hot enough - mid-upper 80s during the day and 70s at night.

[Kim]

I am so bummed for you! Sabinaria! magnifica! That hurts.

[Missi]

On 9/20/2017, 1:17:24, Kim said:

I am so bummed for you! Sabinaria! magnifica! That hurts.

I'm still debating which was more traumatic to me; the loss of my Sabinaria, or Hurricane Irma 

[Jdiaz31089]

[realarch]

Too bad about your 'expensive' and rare palm.... bummer. 

We've all had similar experiences with a special palm seemingly cruising along and then suddenly declines and dies. 

Tim

[Gbarce]

In any case, its a good warning to all palm enthusiasts that this palm isn't actually bullet proof.  Since this is a totally new species/Genera to the hobby -- practical information like this is pretty valuable and we can all hopefully learn something. Our collective experiences with this new palm whether its good or bad will eventually "write the book" on how we can take care of it in captivity.

[Missi]

A thought I have is that perhaps the stress of repotting and misting it daily caused rot. Perhaps not all types of rot have an odor. Only thing I can think of, other than the fact I used a used black plastic pot to pot it up in, but I always use used pots to pot up. Maybe I won't any more with my more valuable palms, due to possibility of pathogen transfer? I'm pulling at straws here... 

[doranakandawatta]

Missi,

Here are my 3 Sabinaria after I repotted them last august, I am not sure one of them won't die.... 
As you can see, we do it in a very "wild" and natural way in Doranakanda gardens; rain, climate ... and hope!

 

[Kai]

That is one of the worst palms an enthousiast could lose. I'm so sorry!

I was wondering what kind of soil you used for repotting and if you might know anything about its specifics. And maybe on what differences there were between old and new soil.

One day I will have to repot mine as well so I'm very eager to learn what exactly went wrong with your plant.

[doranakandawatta]

9 minutes ago, Kai said:

That is one of the worst palms an enthousiast could lose. I'm so sorry!

I was wondering what kind of soil you used for repotting and if you might know anything about its specifics. And maybe on what differences there were between old and new soil.

One day I will have to repot mine as well so I'm very eager to learn what exactly went wrong with your plant.

I just can tell: Sri Lankan soil must be the best ! 

[Kai]

1 hour ago, doranakandawatta said:

I just can tell: Sri Lankan soil must be the best ! 

You just keep at it

[Missi]

23 hours ago, Kai said:

That is one of the worst palms an enthousiast could lose. I'm so sorry!

I was wondering what kind of soil you used for repotting and if you might know anything about its specifics. And maybe on what differences there were between old and new soil.

One day I will have to repot mine as well so I'm very eager to learn what exactly went wrong with your plant.

It was previously happy in its original plain black lava pebble and Nutricote. After I was told that media was used simply for phytosanitary reasons, and palms would benefit for more organic matter in their potting media, I went ahead and repotted it with a mix made up of 25% 1/4" pumice, 25% 1/4" calcined clay, 25% 1/4" montmorillonite clay, and 25% 1/4" pine bark fines...plus Miracle Gro Cactus/Palm potting soil  I think my mistake was adding the potting soil, but old habits are hard to break! I was concerned the less organic mix wouldn't hold enough moisture. 

[Scott Cohen]

Missi, I think your palm may have died due to lack of water. Soil wise Sab's seem to be pretty tolerant, I have tried 4 different mixes on my plants and all have done "well" although some better than others. Plants in pure lava rock require daily watering because of the excellent drainage, if a plant is upgraded into a larger container sometimes the surrounding soil will look wet but the lava is very dry leading to dehydration and death. We also see this when upgrading large plants in tiny containers into larger containers.  Pathogen is possible as well as stress but I put my money on water.

[Missi]

7 hours ago, Scott Cohen said:

Missi, I think your palm may have died due to lack of water. Soil wise Sab's seem to be pretty tolerant, I have tried 4 different mixes on my plants and all have done "well" although some better than others. Plants in pure lava rock require daily watering because of the excellent drainage, if a plant is upgraded into a larger container sometimes the surrounding soil will look wet but the lava is very dry leading to dehydration and death. We also see this when upgrading large plants in tiny containers into larger containers.  Pathogen is possible as well as stress but I put my money on water.

Thanks so much for your input Scott! I'm still kind of stumped though because I didn't let it get any more dry than I did prior to repotting it. When I misted it, I'd always be certain to saturate the potting media. Your thoughts?

[Scott Cohen]

it probably would require more water after repotting. in its original container the water was trapped and forced to go through the potting media and roots. In the new pot the water can disperse into the surrounding soil easier and leave the original mix and root ball bone dry. I have seen it happen many times in my own collection and it is a sure way to kill rare stuff 

[Missi]

1 hour ago, Scott Cohen said:

it probably would require more water after repotting. in its original container the water was trapped and forced to go through the potting media and roots. In the new pot the water can disperse into the surrounding soil easier and leave the original mix and root ball bone dry. I have seen it happen many times in my own collection and it is a sure way to kill rare stuff 

That makes sense! Thank you for you advice.

[doranakandawatta]

On 25/9/2017 19:48:54, Scott Cohen said:

Missi, I think your palm may have died due to lack of water. Soil wise Sab's seem to be pretty tolerant, I have tried 4 different mixes on my plants and all have done "well" although some better than others. Plants in pure lava rock require daily watering because of the excellent drainage, if a plant is upgraded into a larger container sometimes the surrounding soil will look wet but the lava is very dry leading to dehydration and death. We also see this when upgrading large plants in tiny containers into larger containers.  Pathogen is possible as well as stress but I put my money on water.

As you can see on my pics about our "wild" way of doing, I repotted the plants in 1/3 garden sandy soil 1/3 coconut fiber 1/3 compost.
That retains the water and is well drained as well. The climate we have and the frequent rains offer a high humidity. 

I know, it's a very Jungle style you can't use in your country. I hope it'll work ...

[Scott Cohen]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎57‎:‎50‎, doranakandawatta said:

As you can see on my pics about our "wild" way of doing, I repotted the plants in 1/3 garden sandy soil 1/3 coconut fiber 1/3 compost.
That retains the water and is well drained as well. The climate we have and the frequent rains offer a high humidity. 

I know, it's a very Jungle style you can't use in your country. I hope it'll work ...

If it works, Do It!

[Steve Mac]

Missy,

I don't know about your mix which is probably fine, and I know nothing about that palm, but....

I have had experience with other palms and mixes before where I thought that I was giving the plant enough water,

but in fact the water was 'tracking' down after wetting the surface and not actually wetting all of the mix equally.

And it is hard to spot, in general I found 2 things very helpfull.

1. Use a surfactant at the recommended rate but at a more frequent interval.

2. To water from the bottom not just the top, by immersing the whole pot in another bucket of water for a minute or two, then drain.

Do that as often as is convenient instead of watering from the top. And that's how I apply the surfactant too. 

It can't hurt, the only downside that I have found is that it is time consuming if you do water many pots like that.

But I would certainly do it to all new repots, to introduce the first lot of surfactant.

[Jos Mannaart]

Sabbie is not that easy with what we know right now. Lost a few aswell. Last one left did not grow for one year and start turning brown also one year ago. We have hot spring in the Netherlands and room temperature is above 23 degrees C for weeks. She or he picked up life and started growing again the fourth leave a few weeks ago  want to wait giving Sabbie larger pot till this leave is totally out. Keep the soil wet but instead of giving water directly on the soil she gets a daily spray and seems to like it by growing quit fast

[Pal Meir]

8 hours ago, Jos Mannaart said:

Sabbie is not that easy with what we know right now. Lost a few aswell. Last one left did not grow for one year and start turning brown also one year ago. We have hot spring in the Netherlands and room temperature is above 23 degrees C for weeks. She or he picked up life and started growing again the fourth leave a few weeks ago  want to wait giving Sabbie larger pot till this leave is totally out. Keep the soil wet but instead of giving water directly on the soil she gets a daily spray and seems to like it by growing quit fast

That is sad news. — What size is the pot? And what soil mix do you use? Could you post a photo?

My Sabinaria (from @Kai) is now exactly one year in this bigger 2 litres pot; it was before in a small Ø12xH12 cm plastic pot. The split frond is the 6th leaf. The palm stands outdoors on the balcony since a couple of weeks.

[Jos Mannaart]

Hallo Pal, feel so ashamed that i don't want to post a picture. The soil i have from Kai but have to change it in 50/50 seramis pinebark i understood. Dont want to repot now while she is growing. Yours is doing fantastic. You keep it ouside, realy? Its on the north side?

 

And then i found this one

 

Viele Grűßen. Jos

Edited June 13, 2018 by Jos Mannaart

[Pal Meir]

27 minutes ago, Jos Mannaart said:

Hallo Pal, feel so ashamed that i don't want to post a picture. The soil i have from Kai but have to change it in 50/50 seramis pinebark i understood. Dont want to repot now while she is growing. Yours is doing fantastic. You keep it ouside, realy? Its on the north side?

 

And then i found this one

 

Viele Grűßen. Jos

Hello Joe, don’t hesitate to repot it. I guess you planted it in a similar not fast draining soil mix too deep into a large sized pot as Kai did in 2015.

Below a series of pics documenting what I did when I got the palm two years ago. I think you can do the same even now. If you use that fast draining soil mix in a pot not so big you can water the palm regularly (when it is hot even daily). — My balcony is facing WSW, but the palm is partially protected by the canopy of a Lyto (insigne + weddell) grove.

[Mandrew968]

On 9/22/2017, 9:09:55, Missi said:

A thought I have is that perhaps the stress of repotting and misting it daily caused rot. Perhaps not all types of rot have an odor. Only thing I can think of, other than the fact I used a used black plastic pot to pot it up in, but I always use used pots to pot up. Maybe I won't any more with my more valuable palms, due to possibility of pathogen transfer? I'm pulling at straws here... 

The odor is when you pull the spear. Stank!

[Jos Mannaart]

@Pal Meir thanks. See you repot in july. I will give it a shot with same mix as you have. Hope it works out well. Realy nice to see that the seed that was in my hand is growing well at your place :-)

think i found the largest Sabbie in cultivation 

 

this one is also tree years old

Edited June 16, 2018 by Jos Mannaart
oh no its four years old

[Pal Meir]

12 hours ago, Jos Mannaart said:

@Pal Meir thanks. See you repot in july. I will give it a shot with same mix as you have. Hope it works out well. Realy nice to see that the seed that was in my hand is growing well at your place :-)

think i found the largest Sabbie in cultivation 

 

this one is also tree years old

WHERE does it stand?

(Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not ……)

[Jos Mannaart]

21 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

WHERE does it stand?

(Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not ……)

hahaha. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36838058@N03/25677122677 Think its in Miami. Seems that the slow growing can change :-)

The problem that i had was besides the soil was planting to deep.

It came because the first root out of the seed was realy more then 20 cm.

I am looking for a way for vegetative multiplication and be very awaired that it is gone be far from easy. Do you think the Sabinaria has a way to form Callus Pal?

[Pal Meir]

24 minutes ago, Jos Mannaart said:

hahaha. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/36838058@N03/25677122677 Think its in Miami. Seems that the slow growing can change :-)

The problem that i had was besides the soil was planting to deep.

It came because the first root out of the seed was realy more then 20 cm.

I am looking for a way for vegetative multiplication and be very awaired that it is gone be far from easy. Do you think the Sabinaria has a way to form Callus Pal?

Oh, Miami? That’s to far away for stealing …  I was hoping it stood in Holland … 

Yes, the seedlings were planted too deep in a not fast draining soil. If it can form callus, I don’t know.

[Jos Mannaart]

@Pal Meir do you give daily water after repot and mist it?

[Pal Meir]

6 hours ago, Jos Mannaart said:

@Pal Meir do you give daily water after repot and mist it?

That depends on the size of the palm (how many leaves does it have?), also on the size of the pot and on the weather (is it hot?). Every other day or so will be enough, I guess. But if I do not know the palm (has it strong roots?) I can’t give any recommendations.

[Jos Mannaart]

fourth leave is growing, repot today, roots seem to be quit reasonable. Thanks Pal :-)

 

[Missi]

On 6/17/2018, 7:48:25, Pal Meir said:

WHERE does it stand?

(Thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not ……)

If this is indeed at Montgomery as the Flickr page says, @Mandrew968 should be able to tell us more about it! I'm thinking it is more than 3 years old, however.

[Missi]

On 6/16/2018, 9:30:13, Mandrew968 said:

The odor is when you pull the spear. Stank!

From the meristem rotting? 

[Mandrew968]

On 6/28/2018, 2:41:31, Missi said:

If this is indeed at Montgomery as the Flickr page says, @Mandrew968 should be able to tell us more about it! I'm thinking it is more than 3 years old, however.

What do you want to know? Yes it is the largest outside of habitat-the ones we saw in Colombia were not as big. It is doing well. It will not be planted this year. We only have one but I have a feeling seed will soon be widely available...

[Jos Mannaart]

On 28-6-2018 20:41:31, Missi said:

If this is indeed at Montgomery as the Flickr page says, @Mandrew968 should be able to tell us more about it! I'm thinking it is more than 3 years old, however.

It is from 2014 at least when i read the label correctly :-)

 

 

[Missi]

On 7/3/2018, 2:15:39, Mandrew968 said:

What do you want to know?

Umm...anything and everything lol I want to give mine the very best chance at survival as possible since I killed my first one. How about their specific cultivation of it? Potting media, repotting techniques (this is what killed my last one), amount of light, etc. I don't want to experiment with my second one.  PM me if need be.

[Mandrew968]

I am not the nursery curator so I am not directly working with that palm. However, I would say it has cultural requirements similar to Itaya amicorum. Looks similar too...

[Jos Mannaart]

On 3-7-2018 20:15:39, Mandrew968 said:

What do you want to know? Yes it is the largest outside of habitat-the ones we saw in Colombia were not as big. It is doing well. It will not be planted this year. We only have one but I have a feeling seed will soon be widely available...

After reading again :-) 

What about that feeling seed will soon be widely available?

If you are sure about that I will not go to test multiplying by in vitro.

Was willing to start so but when you are right about seeds coming available I better safe my money haha

 

@Pal Meir your soil mix seems to work out well, Sabinaria keeps growing, even directly after repotting, So happy with this.