What Is The Absolute Hardiest Coconut Variety?

[lahuasteca]

14 hours ago, LF-TX said:

If I understood correctly, they're selling actual palms 

Here's the link for a major swap met in Alamo.  I understand there are a number of others in Hidalgo County:

http://www.mercadome.com

Gene

[Xerarch]

Hey all you Texas guys, what in the world is the problem with getting coconut trees in Texas? Is there some reason why coconuts have been specifically excluded from import or something? I mean, you have all the other common tropical palms there, royals, foxtails, bottles etc. But I have repeatedly heard that you just can't go buy a bunch of sprouted coconuts, you have to go search the beaches and stuff. What in the world is the problem down there?  Seems like they should be all over the RGV and SPI. 

[lahuasteca]

38 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Hey all you Texas guys, what in the world is the problem with getting coconut trees in Texas? Is there some reason why coconuts have been specifically excluded from import or something? I mean, you have all the other common tropical palms there, royals, foxtails, bottles etc. But I have repeatedly heard that you just can't go buy a bunch of sprouted coconuts, you have to go search the beaches and stuff. What in the world is the problem down there?  Seems like they should be all over the RGV and SPI. 

I'm going to take a stab at it - might be wrong.  About 20-25 years ago there  was an outbreak of lethal yellowing in the LRGV - killed most of the date palms - today very few Canary Island and Arabian date palms here.  In the 1970's there were many.  I'm just guessing - Texas Dept. of Ag. associates LY with Cocos nucifera and makes it difficult to bring them in.  There was a nursery near Bayview Texas (Rivers End?) that used to sell 3 and 5 gallon trees - I bought two years ago.  They told me the seed nuts were certified Malayan greens from Costa Rica.  Now I notice they are not listed on their website.

Whatever, I had 20 or so green and golden Malayan nuts shipped to me from Ft. Lauderdale recently.  I've applied for a license from the Texas Dept. Ag. to sell at swap meets at Pt. Isabel, TX.  I have fears when they come to my home to do an inspection - their reaction to the 3 gallon Malayans that I now have growing.  Will keep everyone updated.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

19 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

John,

What you say makes perfect sense.

In my neck of the woods, I think this logic applies to nuts from Asia: No viable nuts whatsoever. 

Here again, look for the "product of Mexico" sticker on the nuts. At least on the left coast, all the nuts from Mexico have been viable for me. Sure, I killed some due to negligence: they had sprouted, silly me, I took them outside for some winter sun while they were inside the ziploc bags.  They exploded. Cracked the nut in half. I heard the "pop". I know of some folks who actually eat the "kings candy" of a coconut and can still plant and nurture the sprout to maturity. But alas, only in the tropics.

Alex

 

Alex,

That's interesting.  Here, I have bought nuts from our big chain grocery stores, HEB, Kroger's and some smaller Mexican markets, and virtually none of them sprouted, with the exception of three.  Two that I know of died, and the other one, I gave to someone in the Orlando area of Florida when I went over there back in 2006.  Unfortunately, I lost touch with that person over the years, so I don't know if it survived.  And, like I said, I must have tried about 120 of them over about a twenty year period.  Some were unhusked nuts, and some were big green nuts in the husk.  Big green, golden, and yellow nuts CAN sprout if they are large enough and the embryo inside is fully developed.  With these, all you have to do is set them outside and let them brown up fully, then they can be planted.  I am in the process of doing that with two large mature nuts I got from one of the big Mexican Talls at a motel in Brownsville.  They were green when I got them, but the nuts were big and now that they have browned up, I can hear the milk sloshing inside, so they should be viable.  I am soaking the first one in a 5 gal. bucket of water for five days, and I will do the same with the other one, then plant both of them.

I think your bagged sprouts would probably have to be gradually exposed to the sun, which I assume is how you do it now so they don't pop.  When I was in high school back in the 1980's, I sprouted an unhusked bare coconut from a grocery store near where I lived and I had placed it in a pot out in full sun from day one that I planted it, but it didn't pop or crack open.  The palm did grow into a beautiful healthy looking one till I planted it in Galveston when I lived there back in 1990.  It was 5ft. tall in overall height, but was killed by a bad freeze on the island in which it got down to 28F and stayed below freezing for about 24 to 36 straight hours as I recall in late December that year.  They can't make it any length of time anyway in Galveston because even though it is a 10A climate, it is a very cool 10A climate in the winter, much like Los Angeles.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

11 hours ago, lahuasteca said:

Here's the link for a major swap met in Alamo.  I understand there are a number of others in Hidalgo County:

http://www.mercadome.com

Gene

Gene,

About 6 or 7 years ago before the Dept. of Ag came after me for selling plants without a license, I did fairly good selling my palms and other tropical plants, including some coconut palms I had, at the big flea market in Brownsville on Hwy. 77.  I was still living in Bryan at the time and keeping my coconut palms and other tropical plants in a greenhouse during the winter.  I have been collecting nuts off the beach and sprouting them for years.  Anyway, I have a 5ft. x 10ft. enclosed cargo trailer that I had specifically designed with adequate ventilation to haul plants in it in the summer without them frying on a 100F day, and that is how I took them down there to sell back then.  There are other vendors selling plants there too, and I bet only about 10% of them have a license.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

4 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Hey all you Texas guys, what in the world is the problem with getting coconut trees in Texas? Is there some reason why coconuts have been specifically excluded from import or something? I mean, you have all the other common tropical palms there, royals, foxtails, bottles etc. But I have repeatedly heard that you just can't go buy a bunch of sprouted coconuts, you have to go search the beaches and stuff. What in the world is the problem down there?  Seems like they should be all over the RGV and SPI. 

Ammon,

I absolutely agree with your.  The RGV and South Padre Island should be full of coconut palms.  There should be thousands of them growing there.  They should be at least as common as the royal palms are.  But the problem is the hysteria over Lethal Yellowing.  Because of LY all sprouted coconuts are technically quarantined coming out of Florida and Mexico, and also any sprouts coming out of Mexico, the USDA and Customs go berserk over unless you have an expensive special license that I have heard you can get after going through a lot of red tape, but even then, ONLY approved certified Malayan Dwarf and Maypan sprouts can be brought in from Florida or Mexico.  Since us hard core coconut growers in South Texas are trying to get our hands on some pure Mexican Talls since they are the most cold hardy coconut variety in the Western Hemisphere, being able to officially bring in Malayans and Maypans wouldn't do us much good in that regard, but at least the Malayans and Maypans could be made available to the general public on a regular basis under such circumstances.  So, as it stands now, people just bring sprouted nuts back with them from Florida in their own personal cars (only rental trucks like U Hauls, cargo vans, and 18 wheelers are inspected, or they just order one shipped to them off the internet.  And some, like me collect as many viable nuts off the beach as we can find.  I think there doesn't need to be nearly as much hysteria over LY now, since it has pretty much run its course and no longer seems to be the widespread epidemic it was back in the '70's and '80's, though there still are some cases of it reported.  Also, the more resistant varieties listed above should be exempt from the quarantine anyway.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

4 hours ago, lahuasteca said:

I'm going to take a stab at it - might be wrong.  About 20-25 years ago there  was an outbreak of lethal yellowing in the LRGV - killed most of the date palms - today very few Canary Island and Arabian date palms here.  In the 1970's there were many.  I'm just guessing - Texas Dept. of Ag. associates LY with Cocos nucifera and makes it difficult to bring them in.  There was a nursery near Bayview Texas (Rivers End?) that used to sell 3 and 5 gallon trees - I bought two years ago.  They told me the seed nuts were certified Malayan greens from Costa Rica.  Now I notice they are not listed on their website.

Whatever, I had 20 or so green and golden Malayan nuts shipped to me from Ft. Lauderdale recently.  I've applied for a license from the Texas Dept. Ag. to sell at swap meets at Pt. Isabel, TX.  I have fears when they come to my home to do an inspection - their reaction to the 3 gallon Malayans that I now have growing.  Will keep everyone updated.

Gene,

Whatever you do, DON'T tell them you got any coconut palms from out of state.  Better to tell them you sprouted all of yours from nuts you collected off the beach.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

When I checked into it years ago when I was thinking of trying to start a little home based business growing coconut palms for sale here in Texas, I was told by a guy at the Dept. of Ag in Austin, that it is OKAY to bring in seed nuts as long as they aren't already sprouted, then I could sprout them here no problem.  The reason being is that apparently the disease is not transferred through the nuts.  So, Gene, you could get as many nuts shipped to you as you want and you shouldn't have any problem with the Ag Gestapo (theoretically that is!).

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

4 hours ago, lahuasteca said:

I'm going to take a stab at it - might be wrong.  About 20-25 years ago there  was an outbreak of lethal yellowing in the LRGV - killed most of the date palms - today very few Canary Island and Arabian date palms here.  In the 1970's there were many.  I'm just guessing - Texas Dept. of Ag. associates LY with Cocos nucifera and makes it difficult to bring them in.  There was a nursery near Bayview Texas (Rivers End?) that used to sell 3 and 5 gallon trees - I bought two years ago.  They told me the seed nuts were certified Malayan greens from Costa Rica.  Now I notice they are not listed on their website.

Whatever, I had 20 or so green and golden Malayan nuts shipped to me from Ft. Lauderdale recently.  I've applied for a license from the Texas Dept. Ag. to sell at swap meets at Pt. Isabel, TX.  I have fears when they come to my home to do an inspection - their reaction to the 3 gallon Malayans that I now have growing.  Will keep everyone updated.

Gene,

Just be sure to tell them that any coconut palms you already have growing, that you sprouted them yourself.

John

[GottmitAlex]

1 minute ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

When I checked into it years ago when I was thinking of trying to start a little home based business growing coconut palms for sale here in Texas, I was told by a guy at the Dept. of Ag in Austin, that it is OKAY to bring in seed nuts as long as they aren't already sprouted, then I could sprout them here no problem.  The reason being is that apparently the disease is not transferred through the nuts.  So, Gene, you could get as many nuts shipped to you as you want and you shouldn't have any problem with the Ag Gestapo (theoretically that is!).

John

That is why it is completely legal to take husked and/or dehusked nuts into Mexico.  They are considered grocery items.  Now a 6 ft. seedling is another matter.

But of course, going north with any coconut seed on one's person and/or vehicle is illegal. 

 

 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

5 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

That is why it is completely legal to take husked and/or dehusked nuts into Mexico.  They are considered grocery items.  Now a 6 ft. seedling is another matter.

But of course, going north with any coconut seed on one's person and/or vehicle is illegal. 

 

 

 

Yeah Alex in the "Land Of The Free" not very many things are legal nowadays!

[Xenon]

Does lethal yellowing even exist in South Texas? My understanding is that the insect that spreads the disease is not very cold hardy and would be killed off by the periodic freezes. This states the northernmost distribution in Florida to be Sarasota, Manatee, and Indian River counties (warmer than anywhere in Texas). 
We definitely have Texas Phoenix Palm Decline though, seems to most affect Phoenix canariensis and Phoenix sylvestris here in the Houston Area. 

Another problem with coconuts in Texas is that they are not locally field grown for mass distribution. Royals, foxtails, etc have exploded in popularity the last few years because there are fields of them. Coconuts would be too risky. And unlike Central Florida, we can't just easily truck in landscape ready coconuts from down south. Even if we could, the market would not be very big. You also have to keep in mind the economic situation of the area, landscaping is not a priority for most. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Xenon

[lahuasteca]

1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Gene,

Just be sure to tell them that any coconut palms you already have growing, that you sprouted them yourself.

John

John,

Definitely!  Thanks.

Gene

[Sandy Loam]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎39‎:‎06‎, SEPalm said:

How do yellow Maypans fair? Does anyone grow these?

I would be interested to know the answer to this question too.  Does anyone know?  Maypan coconut palms are absolutely everywhere in Miami, although that city isn't a very good testing ground because it never really gets cold there. 

It's funny that it's so hard to find coconut trees for sale in Texas.  Down in Miami, the homeless people go around with shopping carts collecting all of the fallen coconuts from the Jamaican Tall and Maypans.  You don't have to look for them -- they're everywhere and they're free (All you have to do is look down).  I have even seen coconuts washing up on the shores of the Florida Keys. 

 

I wouldn't try growing coconuts this far north, but I don't see why you wouldn't try Lethal Yellowing-resistant varieties like Maypan down in Brownsville, Texas.  Isn't Brownsville almost like a Bradenton, FL/Sarasota, FL/Melbourne, FL climate?  If so, those cities all have plenty of coconut trees within a mile of the beach. 

 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

31 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Does lethal yellowing even exist in South Texas? My understanding is that the insect that spreads the disease is not very cold hardy and would be killed off by the periodic freezes. This states the northernmost distribution in Florida to be Sarasota, Manatee, and Indian River counties (warmer than anywhere in Texas). 
We definitely have Texas Phoenix Palm Decline though, seems to most affect Phoenix canariensis and Phoenix sylvestris here in the Houston Area. 

Another problem with coconuts in Texas is that they are not locally field grown for mass distribution. Royals, foxtails, etc have exploded in popularity the last few years because there are fields of them. Coconuts would be too risky. And unlike Central Florida, we can't just easily truck in landscape ready coconuts from down south. Even if we could, the market would not be very big. You also have to keep in mind the economic situation of the area, landscaping is not a priority for most. 

Jonathan,

It does exist, but seems to be very sporadic there.  I have seen one what appeared to be Mexican Tall mature coconut palm on the west side of Harlingen near La Feria back 10 years ago that appeared to have it.  I think it like most epidemics has run its course and is not the problem that it used to be back in the '70's and '80's.  There are even some Jamaican Talls in Florida that seem to have a natural resistance to the disease, as they were right in the middle of the outbreak area and yet didn't seem to have any tetracycline injectors stuck in them when I saw them years ago.  So, there are probably some natural genetic strains of even the tall varieties that have a greater degree of resistance too.  Seed nuts should be collected and sprouted from those palms for sure.  The Texas Phoenix Palm Decline seems to be very similar to Lethal Yellowing in some ways, but many of the ignorant people at the Dept. of Ag, just lump it all together and say that you can't import any palms susceptible to Lethal Yellowing.  But they are brought here anyway by people coming back from vacations in Florida and by people getting them shipped to them online.  At this point, the coconut quarantine on any sprouted palms coming out of Florida is pointless, so the quarantine should be dropped.

Don't kid yourself about people not being very interested in landscaping in the Valley.  Yes, the Valley does have a lot of very poor people there, but there has been a LOT of money moving into the Valley over the last 15 or so years, as evidenced by the MANY new upper middle class neighborhoods that have been built there.  There is a doctor in Brownsville that I met a couple of years ago, and he has a VERY well landscaped home in Brownsville, with many expensive hard to find species, and he also has a producing coconut palm at his office in Brownsville.  There is also another doctor there that is an active member of the Palm Society of South Texas who has a tropical botanical garden for a yard, along with a very robust coconut palm that is just starting to trunk (I think it's a green variety of Hawaiian Tall).  Also, about 10 years ago, I met a builder at South Padre Island who builds high end homes there, and he told me that he loves coconut palms and wished there would be A LOT MORE of them planted on the island.  So, what I am trying to say is that there is PLENTY of interest in planting coconut palms there.  The problem is lack of any kind of regular availability of them at local nurseries.  A member of our Palm Society who lives in Port Isabel has gotten two from me because there just isn't any local availability of them.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

23 minutes ago, lahuasteca said:

John,

Definitely!  Thanks.

Gene

You're welcome, Gene.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

1 hour ago, Sandy Loam said:

I would be interested to know the answer to this question too.  Does anyone know?  Maypan coconut palms are absolutely everywhere in Miami, although that city isn't a very good testing ground because it never really gets cold there. 

It's funny that it's so hard to find coconut trees for sale in Texas.  Down in Miami, the homeless people go around with shopping carts collecting all of the fallen coconuts from the Jamaican Tall and Maypans.  You don't have to look for them -- they're everywhere and they're free (All you have to do is look down).  I have even seen coconuts washing up on the shores of the Florida Keys. 

 

I wouldn't try growing coconuts this far north, but I don't see why you wouldn't try Lethal Yellowing-resistant varieties like Maypan down in Brownsville, Texas.  Isn't Brownsville almost like a Bradenton, FL/Sarasota, FL/Melbourne, FL climate?  If so, those cities all have plenty of coconut trees within a mile of the beach. 

 

 

Yes, Brownsville does have a climate very similar to the areas of Florida that you mentioned, just drier with less rainfall in the Brownsville area.  Maypans should do fine there, but like with the Malayan Dwarfs, they are hard to come by and local nurseries don't regularly carry any variety of coconut palm.  There is a local nursery here in Corpus Christi that sneaks in some Green Malayan Dwarfs from Florida on occasion, but even they don't have them all the time and there is growing interest in growing them here too.  The problem in the Valley is lack of availability, not lack of interest in them.  Some nurserymen there really need to wise up and start carrying them.  Even beach sprouts from "mutt" coconuts collected off the beach in which you don't know what exact variety they are WILL SELL down there.  I know, because people have gotten them from me before, but the local nurseries there just don't seem interested in meeting the growing interest and demand for coconut palms there.  Stupid business decision if you ask me.  If they are worried about them not selling, they could start off with just carrying 50 to 100 for a couple of months.  I would venture to say they would be sold out in a couple of months or less.

John

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

 

Don't kid yourself about people not being very interested in landscaping in the Valley.  Yes, the Valley does have a lot of very poor people there, but there has been a LOT of money moving into the Valley over the last 15 or so years, as evidenced by the MANY new upper middle class neighborhoods that have been built there. 

You bet. I actually see a lot more development in Hidalgo county, lots of nice tropical landscapes in the McAllen area. However, it is still a world away (as a whole) from the built up areas on the Floridian coast. 

[Sandy Loam]

Having said that, in those particular areas of coastal central Florida, the coconut trees tend to be withing about a mile of the beach.  The further inland coconuts don't start to appear until your go farther south.  Brownsville, Port Isabel and South Padre Island are one thing, but McAllen is pretty far inland. Don't you think it would be a gamble over there?  Even the colder outreaches of Brownsville might be marginal, don't you think?

[lahuasteca]

14 minutes ago, Sandy Loam said:

Having said that, in those particular areas of coastal central Florida, the coconut trees tend to be withing about a mile of the beach.  The further inland coconuts don't start to appear until your go farther south.  Brownsville, Port Isabel and South Padre Island are one thing, but McAllen is pretty far inland. Don't you think it would be a gamble over there?  Even the colder outreaches of Brownsville might be marginal, don't you think?

Actually the McAllen metro area has created it's own heat island.  For the calendar year 2016 it's average annual temp. was 79.5 F, about 5 F. above normal.  Brownsville was considerable cooler, 76.5 F, less heat island and the effects of the sea breeze. (Data were published on the NWS website - I may be able to dig up the link.)  Minimum temps. in January 2017 were the same - one night at about 31-32.  Harlingen, for some reason seems colder - 28 F. absolute January 2017 minimum. It may be airport location - far away from the urban complex  Having just said that, in reality the weather recording station at McAllen is located in the extreme southern part of the city, at the airport, and in a somewhat protected location. I noticed after a short January 2017 cold snap the banana plants in McAllen north of highway 83 had more leaf burn than my plants in Brownsville.  You're correct about the outer reaches of Brownsville being somewhat colder at night - there is a definite heat island in the central part of the city.  I'd say Ruben Torres Rd. (Highway 802) is limit of the heat island.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

23 hours ago, Xenon said:

You bet. I actually see a lot more development in Hidalgo county, lots of nice tropical landscapes in the McAllen area. However, it is still a world away (as a whole) from the built up areas on the Floridian coast. 

Yes, I hope it never gets overdeveloped like Florida.  Florida literally breaks my heart how overdeveloped it has become in the last 30 years.  The coral reefs there are dying and the Everglades are basically ruined and dying.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

13 hours ago, Sandy Loam said:

Having said that, in those particular areas of coastal central Florida, the coconut trees tend to be withing about a mile of the beach.  The further inland coconuts don't start to appear until your go farther south.  Brownsville, Port Isabel and South Padre Island are one thing, but McAllen is pretty far inland. Don't you think it would be a gamble over there?  Even the colder outreaches of Brownsville might be marginal, don't you think?

Mature coconut palms have been grown in the McAllen area.  In fact, even out in the country north of Edinburg, which is north of McAllen, there is a mature Mexican Tall coconut palm growing in the backyard of a nursery owner there, and his yard is probably about 7 or 8 miles north of the heat island effect of McAllen.

John

Edited September 19, 2017 by Mr. Coconut Palm

[palmfriend]

On 2017/9/16 11:55:01, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

I honestly believe the Indian Talls from north central India are the most cold hardy.  I have seen photos of them growing pretty big (about 50ft. tall) in the foothills of the Himalayan Mountains, where I believe temps drop down to about 29F or 30F at least once each winter.  I estimate them to be hardy down to 25F, and they can probably take extended periods of chilly (but non freezing weather) better than other varieties too. ...

John

I have just found an INDIAN online shop here in Japan selling imported INDIAN coconuts (dehusked) - so, there will be a chance of finding out something about

Indian coconut palms. I phoned them today because there are out of stock at the moment but they are expecting a new delivery in two weeks

I asked the lady on the phone if the coconuts are usually still fresh with a lot of milk inside and she confirmed it - if I got lucky I am going to sprout

some Indian coconuts here in Okinawa! (Of course I do not know where in India those ones will be from, but I think it will be very interesting anyway.)

I am ready to order and I will keep you posted!

best regards -

Lars

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by palmfriend
adding a piece of information

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017‎ ‎8‎:‎31‎:‎28‎, palmfriend said:

I have just found an INDIAN online shop here in Japan selling imported INDIAN coconuts (dehusked) - so, there will be a chance of finding out something about

Indian coconut palms. I phoned them today because there are out of stock at the moment but they are expecting a new delivery in two weeks

I asked the lady on the phone if the coconuts are usually still fresh with a lot of milk inside and she confirmed it - if I got lucky I am going to sprout

some Indian coconuts here in Okinawa! (Of course I do not know where in India those ones will be from, but I think it will be very interesting anyway.)

I am ready to order and I will keep you posted!

best regards -

Lars

 

Lars,

That's great.  Hopefully they are pure Indian Talls from north central India.  If you can, try to find out what area of India they come from.

John

[palmfriend]

10 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Lars,

That's great.  Hopefully they are pure Indian Talls from north central India.  If you can, try to find out what area of India they come from.

John

John,

I am on it - updates will follow!

best regards

Lars

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

12 hours ago, palmfriend said:

John,

I am on it - updates will follow!

best regards

Lars

 

Okay, Lars.  Sounds good.  I look forward to the info.  Hopefully, you can get some good sprouts from the nuts.

John

[palmfriend]

On 9/22/2017, 11:23:48, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Okay, Lars.  Sounds good.  I look forward to the info.  Hopefully, you can get some good sprouts from the nuts.

John

John,

delivery has arrived:

Coconuts from India...

Full of milk!

Hey guys - say "Hello" to palmtalk. (You will get your own thread if you do well  )

The owner told me, they are from the Mumbay area - which is not that cold at all but it means on the other hand that they will be "West Coast Talls" which

are grown close to the coast line.

I will start another thread if something happens and will document the growth of this babies from India - 

best regards,

Lars

PS: No hijacking intended, my apologies!

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Hey Lars,

They look good.  Hopefully they will all sprout into healthy beautiful coconut palms for you, and hopefully nothing has been done to them like radiating them or refrigerating them for too long, both of which can keep them from sprouting.  I have found that soaking them in a clean bucket of water for a few days helps with germination, and it will also help to determine which is the "up" side of the nut, so you know which side to plant facing up.

John

Edited October 4, 2017 by Mr. Coconut Palm

[Cluster]

Hello Lars, 

That is a nice story, I look forward to seeing the follow up! Hopefully they will sprout if nothing happened like John said.

[palmfriend]

9 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Lars,

They look good.  Hopefully they will all sprout into healthy beautiful coconut palms for you, and hopefully nothing has been done to them like radiating them or refrigerating them for too long, both of which can keep them from sprouting.  I have found that soaking them in a clean bucket of water for a few days helps with germination, and it will also help to determine which is the "up" side of the nut, so you know which side to plant facing up.

John

John,

Thank you very much! 

I know what you mean, so I am keeping my fingers crossed. I got once a dehusked supermarket coconut from Guam, put it in water and after two days the 

milk came out through countless tiny holes... So, this time I played it safe. I put a few inches of water in an empty aquarium, sprayed intensively 

the coconuts as well and put them on a roster barely touching the water`s surface. Then I put a heavy glass plate on top to avoid any circulation of air and 

placed the aquarium in a shady but very warm spot. My goal was to raise the humidity level on max to imitate the soaking process. After three days,

when I opened the aquarium, the coconuts were very wet like have being in water, now they are in zip lock bags and "sleeping"... I hope for the best!

I will keep you posted, if something happens!

9 hours ago, Cluster said:

Hello Lars, 

That is a nice story, I look forward to seeing the follow up! Hopefully they will sprout if nothing happened like John said.

Pedro,

Thank you for your kind words! 

To be honest, I can`t wait to get at least one of them sprouted - it would be a sensation to grow an Indian Tall here in Okinawa.

Now they are placed in a warm spot, I am checking their condition and the humidity level of the zip locks from time to time, let`s 

see how it goes - I`ll keep you posted!

Best regards -

Lars

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Lars,

You are welcome.  I look forward to the updates.

John

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

On 9/19/2017, 12:36:10, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Yes, I hope it never gets overdeveloped like Florida.  Florida literally breaks my heart how overdeveloped it has become in the last 30 years.  The coral reefs there are dying and the Everglades are basically ruined and dying.

I cannot comment on the reefs, they seem to be suffering everywhere though.  As for the everglades, I would not say they are ruined, but they are in trouble.  We have largely big sugar to thank for that.  Not only do they pollute the waters in and around Okeechobee, they now divert waters away from flowing south like it naturally would, and its diverted east and west.  This is  harmful to the glades and its also very harmful for any place downstream from the source of release from Okeechobee as the water is very polluted.  From the algae blooms to the nasty brown waters at some beaches near the rivers that empty into the gulf and the Atlantic, its a very big problem.  It wont change until money isn't allowed to control politics anymore, and they are forced to remediate and clean up their act.  Right now most just turn a blind eye in return for massive donations and kick backs.   Its despicable what is being done to the environment here by them.  

 

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Lars, so awesome that you were able to obtain some there.  Please do keep us posted. 

 

As far as Mexican Talls go,   Why not just get seed from the existing ones in south texas or even here in florida, and begin growing them to get seed?   Imports may be "illegal" but trading or giving (maybe even selling to friends) unsprouted mexican talls that come from existing trees in the united states surely cant be. 

[Umbrae]

On 9/17/2017, 9:13:33, lahuasteca said:

Sounds like my situation exactly - make a few extra $$$$ from what is growing in the yard and by some supplies.  If I fill out the application are they going to come to my yard and then crap all over the place when they see coconuts growing? The informal economy in the LRGV is major - swap meets and pickup trucks selling plants and produce just about everywhere.

I think what USDA/TDA is mainly going to be unhappy with is the importation of seeds, and the risk of bringing in another round of lethal yellowing,  the AIDS of palm trees....

[LF-TX]

7 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Lars, so awesome that you were able to obtain some there.  Please do keep us posted. 

 

As far as Mexican Talls go,   Why not just get seed from the existing ones in south texas or even here in florida, and begin growing them to get seed?   Imports may be "illegal" but trading or giving (maybe even selling to friends) unsprouted mexican talls that come from existing trees in the united states surely cant be. 

I have a feeling that for some weird reason, those who have fruiting coconut palms here in the LRGV aren’t very interested in giving away their coconuts; even more those who live in private properties. Being the scarce fruits they are, perhaps it kills some of these people to give them away for them to be put in the ground. Yeah, there’s some who are willing to give other people their coconuts, but these can only spread out to a certain extent.

It seems like a fairly easy thing to sell/trade plants within the US, even more with the internet nowadays, but the state of Texas has a regulation on coconuts coming in from Florida. As mentioned, because of lethal yellowing. I’m sure we can all agree that it’s a fairly unnecessary rule to have, but we can only do so much. If only it was an easy task to just go to Florida every other weekend and get as many coconuts as you can, but frankly it’s not. I emailed a certain nursery in Miami that ships coconuts to Texas, but they’re bare root. It takes a huge leap of faith to ship these palms in boxes thinking that they won’t get affected on their way over here. And plus, the shipping requirements for these was absolutely ridiculous. The total cost came out to about 50$ for two palms that were about 5-10” tall. It may not seem bad for some, but down here it’s not easy for an average citizen who has a fairly low pay to pay such an amount for palms that may not even arrive alive. Hopefully things will change soon! 

I’m actually planning a trip to Miami in 2019 and am considering gathering as many coconuts to bring back to Texas. 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

8 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

I cannot comment on the reefs, they seem to be suffering everywhere though.  As for the everglades, I would not say they are ruined, but they are in trouble.  We have largely big sugar to thank for that.  Not only do they pollute the waters in and around Okeechobee, they now divert waters away from flowing south like it naturally would, and its diverted east and west.  This is  harmful to the glades and its also very harmful for any place downstream from the source of release from Okeechobee as the water is very polluted.  From the algae blooms to the nasty brown waters at some beaches near the rivers that empty into the gulf and the Atlantic, its a very big problem.  It wont change until money isn't allowed to control politics anymore, and they are forced to remediate and clean up their act.  Right now most just turn a blind eye in return for massive donations and kick backs.   Its despicable what is being done to the environment here by them.  

 

Ken,

I agree with you.  We have to get money out of politics entirely and permanently!  Here in Texas, when I was a boy, we had clean beaches, and the water in the Laguna Madre was clear enough you could go snorkeling in it most of the time!  Now, however, we have the second most polluted beaches in the U.S., second only to Louisiana, and the Laguna Madre is horrible looking.  You couldn't pay me to get into that nasty looking amber colored water.  Also, I remember a lot more blue skies when I was a boy, and now, we only have blue skies for about 1 day after a heavy rain or 1 or 2 days after a strong cold front, then the grey dingy haze of pollution sets in again on the horizon on "clear" days.  It is really disgusting what has been done to this once beautiful and very healthy planet for profit!  The EPA's authority must be strengthened, but the Party of Big Business is trying to strip it of all authority.  Here in Texas, all our environment laws and agencies have been utterly gutted, and you can sure see the consequences on a daily basis!

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

8 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

Lars, so awesome that you were able to obtain some there.  Please do keep us posted. 

 

As far as Mexican Talls go,   Why not just get seed from the existing ones in south texas or even here in florida, and begin growing them to get seed?   Imports may be "illegal" but trading or giving (maybe even selling to friends) unsprouted mexican talls that come from existing trees in the united states surely cant be. 

Ken,

Us Texas coconut growers are sure trying get our hands on any locally grown Mexican Tall viable seed nuts from Rio Grand Valley palms, but there are two problems we are facing trying to do that.  First, many people who have coconut palms in the RGV don't adequately water their palms in the hot dry months, so therefore, nut production is only sporadic there and not regular like it should be in such a climate.  Secondly, as I understand it, Mexican Talls, like most tall varieties need to be cross pollinated in order to produce nuts, so any nuts the Mexican Tall palms in the Valley produce are likely hybrid crosses with local Malayan Dwarfs growing nearby or are crosses with local hybrid palms sprouted from nuts collected off the beach that sprout into hybrids themselves.  Therefore, trying to get pure Mexican Tall seed nuts is almost impossible without having access to the nuts from Matamoros, where I believe most of the coconut palms grown there are pure Mexican Talls.  The majority of tall palms in Florida are the native or semi native Jamaican Talls, and for some unknown reason, they just don't seem to do well here, as I have tried 2 of them that died, and I know of one that was about 13ft. tall in overall height that was planted on Padre Island a few years ago that died.  Maypans, on the other hand seem to do okay here, and I know of a green variety of Hawaiian Tall in Brownsville that is doing great.  The green variety of Hawaiian Tall seems to be a more relatively cold/cool hardy variety than some of the other tall varieties and seems to be able to make it through our normal cool to mild South Texas winters, but trying to get it is difficult, as most of the talls available from Hawaii are the golden variety of Hawaiian Tall, which is less cold/cool hardy than the green variety.

John

[lahuasteca]

On 10/30/2017, 8:40:02, Umbrae said:

I think what USDA/TDA is mainly going to be unhappy with is the importation of seeds, and the risk of bringing in another round of lethal yellowing,  the AIDS of palm trees....

Yeah, pretty much decided I don't want to deal with TDA/USDA on the lethal yellowing issue.  Now a new infection affecting California palms will not help matters.  I have 4 certified green Malayans, from Florida, all the inspection documents.  Will plant these - long term, harvest the nuts and will have source identified Coconuts.  Meanwhile, will keep all paperwork and licenses current.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

On 10/31/2017, 12:19:23, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Ken,

I agree with you.  We have to get money out of politics entirely and permanently!  Here in Texas, when I was a boy, we had clean beaches, and the water in the Laguna Madre was clear enough you could go snorkeling in it most of the time!  Now, however, we have the second most polluted beaches in the U.S., second only to Louisiana, and the Laguna Madre is horrible looking.  You couldn't pay me to get into that nasty looking amber colored water.  Also, I remember a lot more blue skies when I was a boy, and now, we only have blue skies for about 1 day after a heavy rain or 1 or 2 days after a strong cold front, then the grey dingy haze of pollution sets in again on the horizon on "clear" days.  It is really disgusting what has been done to this once beautiful and very healthy planet for profit!  The EPA's authority must be strengthened, but the Party of Big Business is trying to strip it of all authority.  Here in Texas, all our environment laws and agencies have been utterly gutted, and you can sure see the consequences on a daily basis!

John

In deed.  There are days that at certain beaches here, where the water is foamy and dark brown.  It is disgusting.  I have seen may videos from both divers and from boats that pass over what everyone here calls the line of death.  I have seen this on land from past trips to FL, but never from the water nor air.  Its truly stunning.  They shoot video from the boat, going along in beautiful crystal clear water, and then you see it in the distance.  I dark line in the water.  They approach then cross it.  Its a stunning and stark difference, and it is grotesque dark brown.   There is at least one Instagram account that posts things like this all the time. I follow them and have or about a year now.  Their name is totalbullsugar.  I would recommend anyone that has any care at all about Florida's environment from lake Okeechobee, to the Everglades, to the surrounding gulf and ocean and their beaches, to follow them.    ( prefer Instagram over facebook as its much better visual content, its photo related / centered and I'm a bit of a photographer myself, and, it is far less chatter.    

Something has to be done and something has to give on both the political front and the environmental one.  We have saved at least one species of everglades palms from people once (  Acoelorrhaphe wrightii)  but with the negative impacts on the glades currently who is to say we may not begin to kill off that palm species again?   We keep abusing mother earth the way we do, and we are going to lose many beautiful things we cannot get back, and quite likely damage things to a point where it will severely negatively impact our very species. 

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

On 10/31/2017, 12:40:06, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Ken,

Us Texas coconut growers are sure trying get our hands on any locally grown Mexican Tall viable seed nuts from Rio Grand Valley palms, but there are two problems we are facing trying to do that.  First, many people who have coconut palms in the RGV don't adequately water their palms in the hot dry months, so therefore, nut production is only sporadic there and not regular like it should be in such a climate.  Secondly, as I understand it, Mexican Talls, like most tall varieties need to be cross pollinated in order to produce nuts, so any nuts the Mexican Tall palms in the Valley produce are likely hybrid crosses with local Malayan Dwarfs growing nearby or are crosses with local hybrid palms sprouted from nuts collected off the beach that sprout into hybrids themselves.  Therefore, trying to get pure Mexican Tall seed nuts is almost impossible without having access to the nuts from Matamoros, where I believe most of the coconut palms grown there are pure Mexican Talls.  The majority of tall palms in Florida are the native or semi native Jamaican Talls, and for some unknown reason, they just don't seem to do well here, as I have tried 2 of them that died, and I know of one that was about 13ft. tall in overall height that was planted on Padre Island a few years ago that died.  Maypans, on the other hand seem to do okay here, and I know of a green variety of Hawaiian Tall in Brownsville that is doing great.  The green variety of Hawaiian Tall seems to be a more relatively cold/cool hardy variety than some of the other tall varieties and seems to be able to make it through our normal cool to mild South Texas winters, but trying to get it is difficult, as most of the talls available from Hawaii are the golden variety of Hawaiian Tall, which is less cold/cool hardy than the green variety.

John

You know, I did think of that right when I posted my comment.   Of course they are going to be hybrids unless someone can meticulously breed Mexican talls in their pure form.   Keep trying though.  It would be great to see south Texas to get some of its coconut populations back.   I wonder if any were at one time even native to the lower RGV there. 

The EPA seems to have more people that are just government hacks that have no real degrees in  the fields in which they are employed than they do people who actually know whats going on and know the plants, accept maybe at the very highest levels.   However now it seems that in the current state of things, they dont want actual scientists / people that know what they are doing, running things.    I thought that plant diseases such as those did not transmit to the seeds?  They are introduced to the plants via soil or insect vectors aren't they?