What's the secret to Marojejya?

[Missi]

Because mine has gone downhill since I received it, and I know I'm not the only one who's had issues growing this genus.

 

[Cindy Adair]

I am so sorry! When a palm looks like yours I have never saved them. I always try again though and often the second times the charm.

As to growing these, in the PR mountains at around 1000 ft. they do fine.

66-88 degrees, only a short relatively dry season so mostly rain at least 30 minutes a day and lots of mist in between. I planted mine in shade to partial shade and good drainage on a gentle slope. 

I have no experience trying these in pots.

[Missi]

1 hour ago, Cindy Adair said:

I am so sorry! When a palm looks like yours I have never saved them. I always try again though and often the second times the charm.

As to growing these, in the PR mountains at around 1000 ft. they do fine.

66-88 degrees, only a short relatively dry season so mostly rain at least 30 minutes a day and lots of mist in between. I planted mine in shade to partial shade and good drainage on a gentle slope. 

I have no experience trying these in pots.

Yes, I have no doubt this palm is beyond help

Do you think maybe it is too hot here in South Florida for them? 

[Kailua_Krish]

I lost almost all of my seedlings here in Hawaii due to an abnormally dry/sunny summer (even with hand watering). 

[Missi]

5 minutes ago, krishnaraoji88 said:

I lost almost all of my seedlings here in Hawaii due to an abnormally dry/sunny summer (even with hand watering). 

Bummer. I wonder if simply the dryness of being in a box for 2-3 days, being shipped during summer, is enough dryness to kill it? I've only had it like 2 weeks, and it did come to me with a bit of brown on the leaf edges.

[palmad Merc]

Maybe try from seed,may stand a better chance.

[Missi]

18 minutes ago, palmad Merc said:

Maybe try from seed,may stand a better chance.

I am too impatient for seed 

[dmc]

No go here sorry.

[palmad Merc]

11 minutes ago, Missi said:

I am too impatient for seed 

Fair enough

Edited August 22, 2017 by palmad Merc
Spell check

[Missi]

11 minutes ago, dmc said:

No go here sorry.

Can you please elaborate? What troubles did you have with it?

[mike in kurtistown]

First of all, yours should be in a larger pot. Wide-leafed plants in not enough soil will dry out to a dangerous extent even while other palms survive. I grew a bunch from seed here in Hawaii and many have been planted out. But I have lost many in pots during our periodic droughts. They are among the first species to show severe water stress. So better luck next time.

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by mike in kurtistown
corrected mistake

[PalmatierMeg]

I had a M. insignis in a pot for maybe 12-18 months. I kept it in my shadehouse. It grew for a while then declined and died. I'm going to hazard a guess that this genus, like many species of Dypsis, requires a significant temperature drop at night. It also may come from an area that doesn't get the extreme highs that FL gets in summer. Here we get many months of highs in the 90s and lows that approach 80F whereas in places like Cali even hot days yield to night time lows in the 50s, even 40s, that give some relief to people and plants. In short, those months of unrelenting swelter can be lethal.

According to the latest Riffle, Craft book, no mature specimens of this genus exist outside Madagascar. Maybe that's because they haven't been cultivated until recently. But they probably are not the easiest palms to grow.

[colin Peters]

I've gone thru many of them. At least 15. Finally one is surviving in consistent wet heavy black clay, in partial sun. Meg, there are quite a few mature specimens on the big island of Hawaii, ie floribunda ,Hilo Zoo,  Bill Austins place etc. There are a few medium sized  ones hidden at Lyon arboretum, by a creek bed on this island. 

They have to be kept very wet in my opinion, and high humidity probably helps. They dry out for just one minute and they are goners. I got some beautiful large ones from Bill and they gradually declined and died, due to inconsistent water and probably hot drying winds. 

aloha

Colin

 

[colin Peters]

The lone survivor. Even in this wet area it gets brown edging. 2 1/2 ft leaves. 

[John hovancsek]

It looks like the same thing happened to mine

[Missi]

1 hour ago, mike in kurtistown said:

First of all, yours should be in a larger pot. Wide-leafed plants in not enough soil will dry out to a dangerous extent even while other palms survive. I grew a bunch from seed here in Hawaii and many have been planted out. But I have lost many in pots during our periodic droughts. They are among the first species to show severe water stress. So better luck next time.

 

Thanks for the tips. I just received it 2 weeks ago from the grower. However, I have other plants, with even larger leaves, in this size pot and they're doing great. That being said, I would have never guessed pot size was the issue. Going forward, I will heed your advice for other large-leaved plants, though.

1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I had a M. insignis in a pot for maybe 12-18 months. I kept it in my shadehouse. It grew for a while then declined and died. I'm going to hazard a guess that this genus, like many species of Dypsis, requires a significant temperature drop at night. It also may come from an area that doesn't get the extreme highs that FL gets in summer. Here we get many months of highs in the 90s and lows that approach 80F whereas in places like Cali even hot days yield to night time lows in the 50s, even 40s, that give some relief to people and plants. In short, those months of unrelenting swelter can be lethal.

According to the latest Riffle, Craft book, no mature specimens of this genus exist outside Madagascar. Maybe that's because they haven't been cultivated until recently. But they probably are not the easiest palms to grow.

Thank you for sharing your experience with them! That's a great theory and I bet you're right. I didn't even think about that. I've just recently learned, in the past year of doing "deeper" research, that some palms can actually get TOO WARM (starting with my research to see if I would be able to grow Dictyocaryum lamarckianum - NOPE!) It blew my amateur mind at first! Now it makes complete sense. I have other palms native to Madagascar, and most are doing well, so I ASSUMED this one would too. You know what they say about assuming...Maybe I'll get another one on my next order and try it in a dish of shallow water like I do successfully with my Joeys and Cyrtostachys renda - an experiment of sorts (wish there was a mad scientist emoji!)

1 hour ago, colin Peters said:

I've gone thru many of them. At least 15. Finally one is surviving in consistent wet heavy black clay, in partial sun. Meg, there are quite a few mature specimens on the big island of Hawaii, ie floribunda ,Hilo Zoo,  Bill Austins place etc. There are a few medium sized  ones hidden at Lyon arboretum, by a creek bed on this island. 

They have to be kept very wet in my opinion, and high humidity probably helps. They dry out for just one minute and they are goners. I got some beautiful large ones from Bill and they gradually declined and died, due to inconsistent water and probably hot drying winds. 

aloha

Colin

 

What Meg said about the Encyclopedia of Cultivated Palms stating there are no mature specimens outside of its habitat is true. Looks like they may need to release a 3rd Edition with updates!  Also, I'd appreciate if they added how thirsty these palms are...it'd be nice to have that bit of information added to Palmpedia for amateurs like myself as well! I used the above stated book and Palmpedia for a majority of my research into care of my new palms. They're invaluable resources, especially Palmpedia , but this is a vital tip to not be stated.

1 hour ago, colin Peters said:

The lone survivor. Even in this wet area it gets brown edging. 2 1/2 ft leaves. 

That is CRAZY!! It had slight brown marks in the same spots, like the ones yours is exhibiting, when I took it out of the box - and actually I may have gone a day or 3 without misting my container garden in the 2 weeks that it has been in my possession , and we have had a few days of no rain (STRANGE - this is summer). Now I'm SURE that's a main part of what killed it. Thanks so much for sharing this and the above comment.

40 minutes ago, John hovancsek said:

It looks like the same thing happened to mine

Challenge on! Let's try again! We can do this!! Well...if it's because of FL being too hot in the summer, we might not be able to do it...BUT! If it is due to them not getting enough moisture, we CAN do this! 

[Missi]

It looks like Fairchild doesn't even have a Marojejya, so I don't feel as bad now (assuming the reason is because they don't grow well in FL, not because they simply haven't had a chance to add it to their collection yet) 

[realarch]

It seems they can be finicky, even here at my place. I picked up a small 1 gal. not too long ago,and it looked just OK. Since then it"s been declining and I don't think it's gonna make it. Lots of humidity, warm temps., tons of rain, and it still looks like crap. So don't feel bad, I just think they can be a bit touchy and vigor depends on the individual plant.

Now, I have a couple in the ground which were acquired as vigorous 1 gal. with more than just 2 leaves and they are quite stunning in the garden. One has a good bit of soil and is approaching 25' tall, while the other is growing on solid rock and only about 9' tall, but still beautiful. They are about the same age as well, planted back in 2009.

Tim

[colin Peters]

They can also be very resilient, the one that got crushed by a fallen tree at Lyon, has recovered nicely, at least last time I saw it. Looked like a goner to me. Some other shots of them, with some nice red color. the full pic shot, the leaves are about 20ft long. 

aloha

[realarch]

That's pretty amazing! Sometimes palms never recover after a good crush and just end up eaking out a pitiful survival. 

I tried transplanting a healthy Marojejya once and it proceeded on to a speedy death. 

A majestic palm worth growing if you have the conditions to sustain it.

Tim

[mike in kurtistown]

I'm astonished at the difficulty people, even here in Hawaii, have been having with Marojejyas. I germinated a bunch from a big lot of seeds. Now, I remember that many had problems as young seedlings, but few died. After they got some size, they grew well in pots. I ended up trying to give them away to friends, but no one seemed to want them. Eventually, I got down to about 5 or 6, which look fine except during droughts (one to three or more weeks without rain). I have lost containerized specimens during drought periods. I have saved many drought-affected specimens which still had some green leafy material and nursed them back to good health. They are like canaries in the coal mine for drought. The only others I have that are as bad are big-leafed Calyptrocalyx (elegans), Dictyocaryums, and Borassus sp. The first one I planted now has 10-ft leaves. The other five that I planted out have leaves that are in the 5-ft range. None have shown any problems during droughts. The only plants in the ground that I have lost during droughts are Dictyocaryums and hapu'us (tree ferns).

 

[kurt decker]

There are big ones all over Hawaii and Australia. That seed came in regularly in the 1990s. The one in the picture with Jeff's wife has flowers on it, that would make it mature. They don't do well in Florida because of our soil. Lots of Madagascar stuff hates our soil.

[Missi]

11 hours ago, mike in kurtistown said:

I'm astonished at the difficulty people, even here in Hawaii, have been having with Marojejyas. I germinated a bunch from a big lot of seeds. Now, I remember that many had problems as young seedlings, but few died. After they got some size, they grew well in pots. I ended up trying to give them away to friends, but no one seemed to want them. Eventually, I got down to about 5 or 6, which look fine except during droughts (one to three or more weeks without rain). I have lost containerized specimens during drought periods. I have saved many drought-affected specimens which still had some green leafy material and nursed them back to good health. They are like canaries in the coal mine for drought. The only others I have that are as bad are big-leafed Calyptrocalyx (elegans), Dictyocaryums, and Borassus sp. The first one I planted now has 10-ft leaves. The other five that I planted out have leaves that are in the 5-ft range. None have shown any problems during droughts. The only plants in the ground that I have lost during droughts are Dictyocaryums and hapu'us (tree ferns).

 

I lost my 4" Calyptrocalyx leptostachys last winter (brought it in on cold nights). I was assuming I killed it due to over-fertilization, but now I wonder if it was due to the same thing. 

2 hours ago, kurt decker said:

There are big ones all over Hawaii and Australia. That seed came in regularly in the 1990s. The one in the picture with Jeff's wife has flowers on it, that would make it mature. They don't do well in Florida because of our soil. Lots of Madagascar stuff hates our soil.

But I didn't even have it in the ground. It was still in its 4" pot  I think it has GOT to be this feast of famine rain we're having this summer in Naples.

[Missi]

Ah hah! Here is a pic of my Marojejya right after I unboxed it. It does look a bit stressed here. Perhaps the lack of relative humidity in the box started it on its swift journey downhill, then the handful of weird hot, dry summer days we've been having here in Naples lately finally did it in?

[Eric in Orlando]

They need shade and like LOTS of water. Any period of dryness can be fatal, at least when they are young. They also require soil on the acidic side, that is why they are hard to grow in SoFL. There used to be a nice juvenile M. darianii at Fairchild in the rainforest. They had dug an "acid pit" for it but I guess with all the coral rock in the soil the alkalinity eventually seeps back in.

I have both M. darianii and M. insignis growing here at Leu Gardens. I have had to plant several specimens to find a right place for them.

[kurt decker]

Missi, your little guy just dried out. Anything with big simple leaves can dry up quick. I think you could do well with a marojejya, just be aware of how much August Florida sun it gets, and pot it up into something bigger, so the soil can hold more moisture. Whatever nursery your plant came from had automated water, and uniform shadecloth, so they can get away with the small pot. You learn these things by killing them every way it can be done (and I have, trust me). I just always try to learn from my failures Try again, that is a very cool palm.

[Scott Cohen]

2 main issues we have with them in south Florida: Water and soil.

They like acidity, when FTG trucked in tones of red acidic clay to fill a massive hole in the rainforest section, they were able to grow many previously impossible plants.... for about 2 years. They had a Marojejya that grew like crazy during this time period, then slowly declined as the acidity was leached from the soil (from our alkaline water).

If you really want to grow this plant and have unlimited income: Build yourself a swimming pool, fill it with acidic Georgia clay, install a large RO unit to irrigate said pool and then build a green house around it. then you may have a chance

 

[Jeff Searle]

Some very good points made here. And I'll give you the best advise. You can have some limited success with these here in south Florida BUT only in pots. I was the first one to try these, I had hundreds of them in small pots that I grew from seed back in late 1991. I had to protect them when Hurricane Andrew hit in 92. So I have grown my share! I have never seen a plant grown successfully in the ground here past about 3 years or so. And I'm not positive why. You can water it until your blue in the face, but that's only part of the equation.

The leaves are constantly getting some degree of tip burn, which a various of reasons can cause this. My advice to you....grow other species that are much more easier to grow and enjoy!!

Jeff

[DoomsDave]

23 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I had a M. insignis in a pot for maybe 12-18 months. I kept it in my shadehouse. It grew for a while then declined and died. I'm going to hazard a guess that this genus, like many species of Dypsis, requires a significant temperature drop at night. It also may come from an area that doesn't get the extreme highs that FL gets in summer. Here we get many months of highs in the 90s and lows that approach 80F whereas in places like Cali even hot days yield to night time lows in the 50s, even 40s, that give some relief to people and plants. In short, those months of unrelenting swelter can be lethal.

According to the latest Riffle, Craft book, no mature specimens of this genus exist outside Madagascar. Maybe that's because they haven't been cultivated until recently. But they probably are not the easiest palms to grow.

I saw what looked like a mature M. darianii in Hawaii, in or near the Hilo Zoo. If it wasn't mature, it was certainly getting there.

[DoomsDave]

For what it's worth, M. darianii will barely grow here in California, if you water it enough (a lot) and keep it shaded. Dr. Darian had one at his former place, but it never looked good.

I've killed the ones I've had.

Insignis just croaks.

[PalmatierMeg]

Where it came from (Floribunda) on the Big Island has a relatively benign climate compared to FL. It never gets blisteringly hot nor subject to arctic cold fronts via Canada. In the mid-1970s on a day in Oct., Honolulu hit an all time low for the date of 65F (breaking the record of 67F). Brrrrrrr! The way the newscasters carried on you'd have thought the apocalypse had come. Your poor palm moved from la-la land to the seventh circle of hell. A lesson I've learned the hard way over the years.

[realarch]

Yeah, pretty wimped out here. It gets down to 60º and we break out the ski parkas. Quite the look, ski parkas, shorts, and slippahs. 

Wonderful thing though, by 9 am it's in the high 70's low 80's. That's typical winter weather. 

Here's a photo of my larger Marojejya. Such a majestic palm and a must grow if you can. I love this palm!

Fast grower too, planted back in mid 2009 from a 1 gal. The shovel is for scale. 

 

Tim

[DoomsDave]

4 minutes ago, realarch said:

Yeah, pretty wimped out here. It gets down to 60º and we break out the ski parkas. Quite the look, ski parkas, shorts, and slippahs. 

Wonderful thing though, by 9 am it's in the high 70's low 80's. That's typical winter weather. 

Here's a photo of my larger Marojejya. Such a majestic palm and a must grow if you can. I love this palm!

Fast grower too, planted back in mid 2009 from a 1 gal. The shovel is for scale. 

 

Tim

Obscenities have been duly screamed.

Crying towels are soaked.

The Marojejya Brat^TM has been spanked and sent to bed.

[mike in kurtistown]

Below is a pic of my biggest one, 5-gal orange bucket for scale. All mine planted out are in full sun (rainy, cloudy Hilo version). I didn't realize how lucky I am to have acidic soil. I grow things that are accustomed to alkaline soil in nature, and most of them do well. Curious!

Edited August 23, 2017 by mike in kurtistown
added full sun comment

[Missi]

3 hours ago, Eric in Orlando said:

They need shade and like LOTS of water. Any period of dryness can be fatal, at least when they are young. They also require soil on the acidic side, that is why they are hard to grow in SoFL. There used to be a nice juvenile M. darianii at Fairchild in the rainforest. They had dug an "acid pit" for it but I guess with all the coral rock in the soil the alkalinity eventually seeps back in.

I have both M. darianii and M. insignis growing here at Leu Gardens. I have had to plant several specimens to find a right place for them.

I still haven't visited Leu Gardens. I need to get up there! Your posts push me closer and closer...

3 hours ago, kurt decker said:

Missi, your little guy just dried out. Anything with big simple leaves can dry up quick. I think you could do well with a marojejya, just be aware of how much August Florida sun it gets, and pot it up into something bigger, so the soil can hold more moisture. Whatever nursery your plant came from had automated water, and uniform shadecloth, so they can get away with the small pot. You learn these things by killing them every way it can be done (and I have, trust me). I just always try to learn from my failures Try again, that is a very cool palm.

I always try to learn from my failures as well, but darn it, if I'm not stubborn! That's why I value having access to you guys to talk sense into me LOL 

2 hours ago, Scott Cohen said:

2 main issues we have with them in south Florida: Water and soil.

They like acidity, when FTG trucked in tones of red acidic clay to fill a massive hole in the rainforest section, they were able to grow many previously impossible plants.... for about 2 years. They had a Marojejya that grew like crazy during this time period, then slowly declined as the acidity was leached from the soil (from our alkaline water).

If you really want to grow this plant and have unlimited income: Build yourself a swimming pool, fill it with acidic Georgia clay, install a large RO unit to irrigate said pool and then build a green house around it. then you may have a chance

 

That's so cool! I love Fairchild! It's my Disney World lol I didn't know they did that! I want to know more! Man I wish I was closer than the 2 hour drive from there. I'd love to volunteer. By rainforest, do you mean the Conservatory/Rare Plant House?

2 hours ago, Jeff Searle said:

Some very good points made here. And I'll give you the best advise. You can have some limited success with these here in south Florida BUT only in pots. I was the first one to try these, I had hundreds of them in small pots that I grew from seed back in late 1991. I had to protect them when Hurricane Andrew hit in 92. So I have grown my share! I have never seen a plant grown successfully in the ground here past about 3 years or so. And I'm not positive why. You can water it until your blue in the face, but that's only part of the equation.

The leaves are constantly getting some degree of tip burn, which a various of reasons can cause this. My advice to you....grow other species that are much more easier to grow and enjoy!!

Jeff

I shall heed your advice, good sir!  Thanks for the little cultivation history lesson as well!

25 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

For what it's worth, M. darianii will barely grow here in California, if you water it enough (a lot) and keep it shaded. Dr. Darian had one at his former place, but it never looked good.

I've killed the ones I've had.

Insignis just croaks.

 

17 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Where it came from (Floribunda) on the Big Island has a relatively benign climate compared to FL. It never gets blisteringly hot nor subject to arctic cold fronts via Canada. In the mid-1970s on a day in Oct., Honolulu hit an all time low for the date of 65F (breaking the record of 67F). Brrrrrrr! The way the newscasters carried on you'd have thought the apocalypse had come. Your poor palm moved from la-la land to the seventh circle of hell. A lesson I've learned the hard way over the years.

Oh poor bugger! Now I know! 

 

You guys are so awesome! I can't thank you enough for all the informative replies!! Learning about the things I'm passionate about makes me beyond giddy 

I have many high-maintenance (for being in FL) palms in my collection that are thriving for me. With the help of everyone's experience and advice, I've decided that I will save my time, energy, and resources for the plants I can keep happy for the long term. 

However, I'm loving learning about Marojejya, so please let the info continue to be posted!! 

[colin Peters]

Mike and Tim, those are crazy beautiful. Make mine a wimp. Can you imagine a forest of hundreds of mature and immature ones. 

thanks for sharing,

great thread Missi, probably one of my favorite big boy palms.

aloha

[Missi]

19 hours ago, colin Peters said:

Can you imagine a forest of hundreds of mature and immature ones. 

I love that visual! 

[atlantisrising]

I got 3 of these in last Oct. about the same size as Missi's. Promptly potted them up with potting soil and pine bark for acidity. Watered them daily. All died within 30 days. October and November are warm but not dreadfully hot in the Keys. I seriously lust for one but don't want to kill more unnecessarily and Jeff Searle's input answers that for me.

[bgl]

Yeah, this is a truly spectacular palm and those of us who can grow it are indeed fortunate. While this is not quite a "forest" I did plant about 30 of them in a grove in my previous garden here in Leilani Estates. Only have six of them in the ground in my new garden, and might add a few more.

[PalmTreeDude]

A picky palm! Only if it where easier to grow. They look so nice!

Edited August 25, 2017 by PalmTreeDude