Cycad ID

[5150cycad]

Does anyone have any idea of what these might be? I was thinking lepidozamia peroffskyana or some kind of ceratazamia. One of them flushes brown leaves and I swear I thought the other one flushes green leaves. I swear they look identical though. Does the same species flush both brown and green leaves? Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

[Palm Tree Jim]

Have any pictures of the caudex?

[5150cycad]

3 hours ago, Palm Tree Jim said:

Have any pictures of the caudex?

Here ya go

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

That's a ceratozamia 

[5150cycad]

1 hour ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

That's a ceratozamia 

Thanks Joseph, mexicana? 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

45 minutes ago, 5150cycad said:

Thanks Joseph, mexicana? 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cycad.org/documents/Key-to-the-Species-of-Ceratozamia.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiJubWnjZjVAhWCaD4KHX9KAo8QFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNFG5-vlHUuHq-cCeFFfJ7NtyjkIvQ

 

Let the guide be your guide. 

[5150cycad]

4 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cycad.org/documents/Key-to-the-Species-of-Ceratozamia.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiJubWnjZjVAhWCaD4KHX9KAo8QFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNFG5-vlHUuHq-cCeFFfJ7NtyjkIvQ

 

Let the guide be your guide. 

Thanks for the information Joseph. After looking at the guide I was guided to one of the following:

Ceratazamia Sabatoi- leaflets not channeled

Ceratazamia Kuesteriana- leaflets channeled

Ceratazamia Kuesteriana is my final answer due to what appears to be channeled leaflets on both of my plants. What do you think? Was I guided in the right direction or should I fire my guide? J/K  Very good information. Maybe I should fire myself. 

[Tracy]

5 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

Thanks for the information Joseph. After looking at the guide I was guided to one of the following:

Ceratazamia Sabatoi- leaflets not channeled

Ceratazamia Kuesteriana- leaflets channeled

Ceratazamia Kuesteriana is my final answer due to what appears to be channeled leaflets on both of my plants. What do you think? Was I guided in the right direction or should I fire my guide? J/K  Very good information. Maybe I should fire myself. 

What about the petioles?  Armored or unarmored.  I was going to suggest C mexicana based on width of the leaflets to length, as well as overall appearance.  I have a C mexicana which I've posted photos of which flushes bronze and have discussed with others that "the guide" says they should only flush green.  I also have a couple of very similar looking Ceratozamia which flushes green, which I acquired as Ceratozamia pacifica.  Even though you have channeled leaflets if some of the other items don't match C kuesteriana, your next test and probably best will be the cones.  Nice looking Ceratozamia's whichever they are!

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

6 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

Thanks for the information Joseph. After looking at the guide I was guided to one of the following:

Ceratazamia Sabatoi- leaflets not channeled

Ceratazamia Kuesteriana- leaflets channeled

Ceratazamia Kuesteriana is my final answer due to what appears to be channeled leaflets on both of my plants. What do you think? Was I guided in the right direction or should I fire my guide? J/K  Very good information. Maybe I should fire myself. 

The first and second pic look like a kuesteriana but the close up pics leaflets looked wide. So much so that I almost asked if they were of the same plants. Pics online are tough sometimes without size references. Using the drip emitter for scale, those are nice, large caudexes for kuesteriana.

Kuesteriana has beautiful chocolate colored flushes as well. 

[5150cycad]

1 hour ago, Tracy said:

What about the petioles?  Armored or unarmored.  I was going to suggest C mexicana based on width of the leaflets to length, as well as overall appearance.  I have a C mexicana which I've posted photos of which flushes bronze and have discussed with others that "the guide" says they should only flush green.  I also have a couple of very similar looking Ceratozamia which flushes green, which I acquired as Ceratozamia pacifica.  Even though you have channeled leaflets if some of the other items don't match C kuesteriana, your next test and probably best will be the cones.  Nice looking Ceratozamia's whichever they are!

 

53 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

The first and second pic look like a kuesteriana but the close up pics leaflets looked wide. So much so that I almost asked if they were of the same plants. Pics online are tough sometimes without size references. Using the drip emitter for scale, those are nice, large caudexes for kuesteriana.

Kuesteriana has beautiful chocolate colored flushes as well. 

Most of the pictures online just seemed to confuse me. The ID guide that Joseph posted seemed pretty straightforward but there are always small variations between the same species. That is where I start getting confused. There are some very small little spines on the petiole and they are kind of scattered around and not in any particular pattern like you would typically see (hope that makes sense). My other concern is that I swear one of them flushes bronze/ brown and the other one flushes a normal green. Is that possible of the same species? I think that is the case with the encephalartos sclavoi no? Man I don't know, ceratazamia's are tough to Id. Here are some pictures of one of the first plant. The caudex is about 10 inches. I will post picture of the other plant shorty. Thanks 

[5150cycad]

Here are pictures of the other plant. The caudex on this one is about 8 inches. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

As far as i know all pure kuesteriana flush brown, no exceptions. Tom broome is very knowledgeable about ceratozamia and could give you a solid ID. 

[5150cycad]

7 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

As far as i know all pure kuesteriana flush brown, no exceptions. Tom broome is very knowledgeable about ceratozamia and could give you a solid ID. 

Is there a chance they could be 2 different species? I know for a fact that one of them flushes brown. I might be confusing the green flush with one of my other cycads. I think I have too many. I will know for sure once they flush again. Is Tom Broome at CycadJungle? Hopefully he can respond on this forum. Thanks Joseph. 

[Palm Tree Jim]

Wish I could help but i am just not sure on this one........

[Palm Tree Jim]

On 7/20/2017, 7:48:37, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cycad.org/documents/Key-to-the-Species-of-Ceratozamia.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiJubWnjZjVAhWCaD4KHX9KAo8QFggdMAA&usg=AFQjCNFG5-vlHUuHq-cCeFFfJ7NtyjkIvQ

 

Let the guide be your guide. 

Thanks for this chart!

I have a ceratozamia that I could not ID. Based on the chart, it is becerrae.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

5 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

Is there a chance they could be 2 different species? I know for a fact that one of them flushes brown. I might be confusing the green flush with one of my other cycads. I think I have too many. I will know for sure once they flush again. Is Tom Broome at CycadJungle? Hopefully he can respond on this forum. Thanks Joseph. 

There are zero spines on my kuesteriana

[Tracy]

10 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

There are zero spines on my kuesteriana

As previously mentioned by someone else, the kuesteriana photos, including yours, appear to have narrower leaflets than the plants in question. Very nice looking Ceratozamia kuesteriana you have in your photos!

[5150cycad]

4 hours ago, Tracy said:

As previously mentioned by someone else, the kuesteriana photos, including yours, appear to have narrower leaflets than the plants in question. Very nice looking Ceratozamia kuesteriana you have in your photos!

Thanks for the help Joseph and Tracy. You were both right about not being Kuesteriana. I reached out to Tom and he was kind enough to shed some light on the subject. He confirmed that it is not Kuesteriana. The two main differences, are that  1) Kuesteriana has no spines on the petiole (both of mine plants do have spines) and 2)  Kuesteriana has narrow leaflets (compared to the wider leaflets on both of my plants). He mentioned that my plants look a little bit different than all of the other ceratazamias he has seen, enough that it is hard to make a positive ID which could turn out being a pretty cool thing. 

[5150cycad]

I have been trying to id these ceratazamias for some time now. Finally one of them decided to push some new leaves which are almost maroon in color. I really like how the leaves change from a maroon to green over time. Not sure if this would help in the ID of the plant or not. 

[Tracy]

11 hours ago, 5150cycad said:

I really like how the leaves change from a maroon to green over time. Not sure if this would help in the ID of the plant or not.

Very pretty emergent leaf color, whichever Ceratozamia it is.  My C robusta, C latifolia, and C mexicana all have very similar colors when pushing new leaves, but I can confirm that the leaflet shape on yours matches none of the above.  There is always the possibility of a hybrid of C mexicana and something else more fine leafed like C kuesteriana.  I suggest this since no one can seem to nail it down.  There always seems to be something with it's appearance that deviates in some way from the "species" descriptions posited thus far.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

@5150cycad ceratozamia update.  I saw these in person and looking back through this thread I am pretty sure these are Kuesteriana hybridized with something else (Latifolia or Mexicana).  The spines are not pronounced and the plant has a the Kuesteriana look to it, but its clearly not a pure Kuesteriana.

[5150cycad]

13 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

@5150cycad ceratozamia update.  I saw these in person and looking back through this thread I am pretty sure these are Kuesteriana hybridized with something else (Latifolia or Mexicana).  The spines are not pronounced and the plant has a the Kuesteriana look to it, but its clearly not a pure Kuesteriana.

Thanks Joseph.