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Chamaedorea elegans: An underrated Solitary Palm


PalmatierMeg

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In another thread I made the point that Chamaedorea elegans is actually a solitary palm that is often sold as many tiny seedlings artificially clustered and jammed into small pots or cloying flower arrangements. If you know this, you can purchase a slew of them in a 4" pot for a few $$, separate them and pot them up individually. When you let them grow as nature intended you discover this slow-growing little palm is quite beautiful. I have them scattered around my property in pots and in the ground - they take up little space.

I was asked to post photos of some of my planted little Chams, so today I did so and included a couple of potted ones I keep on the front porch between adirondack chairs. I think this overlooked and underrated palm deserves a topic of its own. As it requires mostly shade, it makes a good houseplant.

This is my oldest and largest Cham. elegans. I think I planted it next to the screen of our front lanai 7-8 years ago. Even after all those years it is only about 30" tall. It flowers but sets infertile seeds because there is no male nearby. Does this species require a specific pollinator?

5967efec78364_Chamaedoreaelegansfront01.5967effa9bb53_Chamaedoreaelegansfront02.5967f006b67fd_Chamaedoreaelegansfront03.5967f02349ca0_Chamaedoreaelegansfront04.5967f030d7833_Chamaedoreaelegansfront05.

The following groups  of Cham. elegans were planted in the back yard.

5967f09e0486e_Chamaedoreaelegansgroup1-05967f0a99dc6b_Chamaedoreaelegansgroup2-05967f0b84fbac_Chamaedoreaelegansgroup2-0

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Here are two of three potted Chamaedorea elegans I keep on our front porch

1)---

5967f13896cf1_Chamaedoreaeleganspotted1-5967f16f5410d_Chamaedoreaeleganspotted1-5967f17a07896_Chamaedoreaeleganspotted1-

 

2)---

5967f1a1d223e_Chamaedoreaeleganspotted2-

  • Upvote 9

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Same here, I have about 15 little clumps in a shaded area under some trees. I use them as filler "palms". I'll snap some pics soon!

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2 hours ago, Mandrew968 said:

I like the 'negrita' form.

I've looked for this one over the years. I also tried so-called negrita seeds but all turned out standard issue.

Pal, your 45-yr-old plants are really neat.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I've looked for this one over the years. I also tried so-called negrita seeds but all turned out standard issue.

Pal, your 45-yr-old plants are really neat.

If you let them grow straight upwards even indoors they hit the ceiling (c. 3 m) after c. 25 years and then they will die (as one of my *1962 palms did) unless you make air layering and cut the stem (twice with my *1970 palm).

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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I cannot keep these alive to save my life, and I have a wide range of plants. I've probably killed more of these than anything else. :unsure:

I had four clumps of these totaling 60-80 palms, only one palm remains.

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Hmmm, cm05, I know what you can do to save it.

Give it away.  :P

Meg, we have them around the garden too, they are great,

we have to keep cutting off the flower heads they are so prolific.

P7150002.thumb.JPG.ae635b733fee305bc5d37

P7150004.thumb.JPG.c8c62944efd60fe2aa026

 

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Cheers Steve

It is not dead, it is just senescence.

   

 

 

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cm05, Chamaedorea seifrizii (bamboo palm) is about as bombproof as they come.  This one's living in the tourist info place (iSITE), Whanganui, New Zealand.  

Chamaedorea_seifritzii_at_iSITE_Whanganui_NZ_(1_of_1).jpg

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Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

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15 hours ago, cm05 said:

I cannot keep these alive to save my life, and I have a wide range of plants. I've probably killed more of these than anything else. :unsure:

I had four clumps of these totaling 60-80 palms, only one palm remains.

Why don't you try separating a clump into individual palms (remember, this is a solitary palm) and potting each in very well draining mix (avoid cheap potting soil that turns to black much when watered) such as light porous garden or cactus mix? Consider adding extra perlite for more drainage. Pots should not be too shallow or too big.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Thanks for posting this Meg.  I have a bunch of these is pots under my potting table.  Now I have an idea what to do with them.

 

IMG_4543.JPG

IMG_4544.JPG

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They separate more readily if you soak them to remove excess potting soil. Then you need deft hands & lots of patience to pick them apart. Will some die? Yes, and you end up with 30 plants instead of 45 for your $5 investment.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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What a great idea Meg! I don't own a single one of these but have lots of places they could fill in. I will give it a try next time a see some pots full of little ones cheap. Your place looks great!

Cindy Adair

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Thanks for sharing. I, like so many others, probably readily dismiss this palm as it is highly available. But seeing these images, along with a robust plant at my mother's house shows me that this is a really foolproof palm that adds that tropical look easily, as long as you don't get too cold. For $9.99 I could probalby get 10-15 great little understory palms easy-peasy!

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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On 7/14/2017, 4:29:27, cm05 said:

I cannot keep these alive to save my life, and I have a wide range of plants. I've probably killed more of these than anything else. :unsure:

I had four clumps of these totaling 60-80 palms, only one palm remains.

Don't worry, I am a Dypsis MURDERER! You are not alone!

Oakley, California

55 Miles E-NE of San Francisco, CA

Solid zone 9, I can expect at least one night in the mid to low twenties every year.

Hot, dry summers. Cold, wet winters.

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On 7/14/2017, 9:14:07, PalmatierMeg said:

I've looked for this one over the years. I also tried so-called negrita seeds but all turned out standard issue.

Pal, your 45-yr-old plants are really neat.

I went to Google to see what 'Negrita' looks like, and I happened upon an active eBay listing for it, if you're still wanting it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chamaedorea-elegans-Negrita-RARE-excellent-container-plant-/172515621958

Naples (inland), FL - technically 10a but more like 9b in the winter :hmm:

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"Negrita" appears to be just a marketing ploy to get more money for what is an ubiquitous potted palm in horticulture (surprise!). There are, however, two very well-defined ecotypes of Chamaedorea elegans; the commonly-cultivated lowland form from SE Mexico, Guatemala and Belize whose leaves are trafficked heavily in the ornamental cut foliage trade as Xate (pronounced Shah-tay), and a generally smaller-statured, somewhat wider-leaf form from cloud forests of Chiapas and Guatemala. The lowland form can dominate the understory for many square miles in undisturbed lower Yucatan Peninsula tropical wet and seasonally dry forests, while the upland form usually occurs as scattered individuals alongside other sympatric highland chamaedoreas. Because lowland seed sources include several Mexican states and Belize, there are logically some minor variation among them. I have not seen many (any?) of the highland form in cultivation outside of Guatemala and Mexico.

Pal Meir, the reason that you don't see images of wild C. elegans as tall as yours in that the stems almost always lay down/are knocked down way before they reach 2 m/6.5' tall. In climax TRF and TWF sites where they occur in isolated pockets in the NE Peten in Guatemala and the Bladen Nature Reserve in southern Belize, you can find much larger individuals than yours but with their older stems snaking three or more meters under leaf litter and culminating in a 1.20 m/4'  tall upright stem. This area, sadly, remains under extremely heavy poaching pressure for the floral trade.

This is indeed a great and underappreciated small palm for mass planting in lieu of ferns or calatheas in sheltered, shady tropical/subtropical gardens. In nature I have seen acres of them with nearly interlocked canopies on many occasions in decades past. My younger brother has an AMAZING print photograph given to him many years ago by (now) Panthera.org boss and large felid-expert, Dr. Alan Rabinowitz, of a wild jaguar squinting up into a thin shaft of sunlight amidst what appears to be a shady sea of young Xate foliage in Belize. I always think of C. elegans in the context of that very evocative photo of a slice of Mesoamerican wilderness.

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@stone jaguar Yes, I know there are many Ch elegans that are taller than the two I have posted. I myself had also much taller individuals (*1962) which died much younger (c. 25 years old) because they had bumped the ceiling of the rooms. But what I think is that the two palms (I have given away in 2008 to friends) are the oldest because even 5 m long Ch elegans in habitat may be perhaps only 20 years old.

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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29 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

...even 5 m long Ch elegans in habitat may be perhaps only 20 years old.

Sorry, Pal...not a chance. Apples to apples (=like to like), under optimum conditions palms in cultivation grow many times faster than they do in the wild. I have NEVER seen an exception to this rule, but am open to see objectively-sourced evidence to the contrary. If wild C. elegans grew at this rate, it would not be facing the conservation challenges it has in range states. IMO, a five meter long wild Xate is well over 50 years old. Please see the peer-reviewed studies on annual leaf regeneration rates for wild C. elegans in reserves in Mexico, Guatemala and Belize, translate to # of leaf nodes at a reasonable internodal distance in mm, multiply x 25 and see what you come up with in terms of height.

Your middle photograph clearly shows an etiolated individual not receiving optimum light. Neanthe, Collinia, etc. all sunk.

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13 minutes ago, stone jaguar said:

Sorry, Pal...not a chance. Apples to apples (=like to like), under optimum conditions palms in cultivation grow many times faster than they do in the wild. I have NEVER seen an exception to this rule, but am open to see objectively-sourced evidence to the contrary. If wild C. elegans grew at this rate, it would not be facing the conservation challenges it has in range states. IMO, a five meter long wild Xate is well over 50 years old. Please see the peer-reviewed studies on annual leaf regeneration rates for wild C. elegans in reserves in Mexico, Guatemala and Belize, translate to # of leaf nodes at a reasonable internodal distance in mm, multiply x 25 and see what you come up with in terms of height.

Your middle photograph clearly shows an etiolated individual not receiving optimum light. Neanthe, Collinia, etc. all sunk.

Oops, they are soooo slow growers in habitat? :huh:

PS: “Collinia elegans” was the label in that BG.

My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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40 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

Oops, they are soooo slow growers in habitat? :huh:

PS: “Collinia elegans” was the label in that BG.

Yes, particularly the upland form which the Hamburg plant does indeed resemble. I would also estimate that for lowland populations  in seasonally dry TF on the Yucatan Peninsula (=arguably a suboptimal ecosystem for this sp.), some plants may only increase their height by only a couple cm a year. My observation that Collinia and Neanthe (bella) are invalid names for C elegans are for readers here unfamiliar with the names.

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4 hours ago, stone jaguar said:

"Negrita" appears to be just a marketing ploy to get more money for what is an ubiquitous potted palm in horticulture (surprise!). There are, however, two very well-defined ecotypes of Chamaedorea elegans; the commonly-cultivated lowland form from SE Mexico, Guatemala and Belize whose leaves are trafficked heavily in the ornamental cut foliage trade as Xate (pronounced Shah-tay), and a generally smaller-statured, somewhat wider-leaf form from cloud forests of Chiapas and Guatemala. The lowland form can dominate the understory for many square miles in undisturbed lower Yucatan Peninsula tropical wet and seasonally dry forests, while the upland form usually occurs as scattered individuals alongside other sympatric highland chamaedoreas. Because lowland seed sources include several Mexican states and Belize, there are logically some minor variation among them. I have not seen many (any?) of the highland form in cultivation outside of Guatemala and Mexico.

Pal Meir, the reason that you don't see images of wild C. elegans as tall as yours in that the stems almost always lay down/are knocked down way before they reach 2 m/6.5' tall. In climax TRF and TWF sites where they occur in isolated pockets in the NE Peten in Guatemala and the Bladen Nature Reserve in southern Belize, you can find much larger individuals than yours but with their older stems snaking three or more meters under leaf litter and culminating in a 1.20 m/4'  tall upright stem. This area, sadly, remains under extremely heavy poaching pressure for the floral trade.

This is indeed a great and underappreciated small palm for mass planting in lieu of ferns or calatheas in sheltered, shady tropical/subtropical gardens. In nature I have seen acres of them with nearly interlocked canopies on many occasions in decades past. My younger brother has an AMAZING print photograph given to him many years ago by (now) Panthera.org boss and large felid-expert, Dr. Alan Rabinowitz, of a wild jaguar squinting up into a thin shaft of sunlight amidst what appears to be a shady sea of young Xate foliage in Belize. I always think of C. elegans in the context of that very evocative photo of a slice of Mesoamerican wilderness.

Jay, thanks for the info. I'll stop looking. I hate underhanded sellers. Missi, I've seen that listing. That's a garden variety elegans.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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