Coconut Palms in Sydney Botanical Gardens

[James West]

Hi Tyrone

I tend to agree with you. Although the Garden management went to some expense to move the trees [hiring a crane etc] they do not seem to be following up with a nutrition plan. The palms would need to be in absolute tip-top condition to survive the 2018 winter, as the 2017 winter was incredibly mild [warmer than Perth's was, for example]. It beats me that they would go to that original expense and not follow up on the project. 34 degrees south is a long way down. I live right nearby the gardens, so I'll follow up on any developments.

By the way, are you aware of any Cocos in Albany or Perth? There is a fairly healthy looking one growing on the coast near Taree, which is at about the same latitude as where you are.

Regards

 

[James West]

On 11 December 2017 4:40:30 pm, James West said:

Hi Daryl. It is quite extraordinary that three of them survived the winter just after having been transplanted. There are a number of locations in the gardens which I think would have been much better. As far as I can determine - from talking to the gardeners - there have been no efforts to provide any kind of nutrients for the trees. Shame. I think they could do with some salt or nitrogen compound. There is a certain amount of spotting on the leaves which is obviously not due to the cold at this point in time. We have a good five months of warm to hot temperatures ahead right now [Dec 11th] to get some serious foliage and rooting to see them through next winter. I'll post photos of their progress as time goes by.

In the meantime, here's a very healthy looking young Beccariophoenix growing in the "palm jungle" section of the gardens:

I thought I had posted a photo of the Malay Dwarf here, it seems to have disappeared. so here's a photo from January 2018:

[Tyrone]

On 12/12/2017, 6:27:41, James West said:

Hi Tyrone

I tend to agree with you. Although the Garden management went to some expense to move the trees [hiring a crane etc] they do not seem to be following up with a nutrition plan. The palms would need to be in absolute tip-top condition to survive the 2018 winter, as the 2017 winter was incredibly mild [warmer than Perth's was, for example]. It beats me that they would go to that original expense and not follow up on the project. 34 degrees south is a long way down. I live right nearby the gardens, so I'll follow up on any developments.

By the way, are you aware of any Cocos in Albany or Perth? There is a fairly healthy looking one growing on the coast near Taree, which is at about the same latitude as where you are.

Regards

 

Hi James. No hope of growing a Cocos in Albany I'm afraid.  In a glass house probably. I had a dwarf Malay that I planted from a 1m high plant in 2007 at my Perth garden but it died in late 2016, because my tenant turned all the irrigation off in summer, and I wasn't there to pep it up on steroids to overcome the winters. 2016 winter was a cold one in Perth. I knew of a rather large trunking one in a Perth garden not too far from my old place that the owner must have just jagged the right spot accidentally and I remember after a cold winter it didn't look great but it just kept chugging along and looked good again by April. I haven't driven past it in about 3 years though. I reckon it had been there about 20 years.

[Laisla87]

Any updates on how the Sydney coconuts went over summer?

[PAPalmGrower]

I will be visiting the Sydney Botanical gardens next week and will check on them.  Can anyone describe where in the gardens I should go to find them?  Cheers.

[TommoThePalmGrower]

Hi guys. Here are some photos taken today. They don't seem to have improved since James took his photos. one dead, one not far from dead, 2 struggling and trying with new spears.

 

Mine will come in for our Sydney winter again this year.

 

FYI. These are located behind the Conservatorium of Music on the hill half way down to the stream. If you entry the gardens from Macquarie Street to the right of the Conservatorium, go straight down the path, down the stairs and turn left. Walk about 50m down the path and they are in a stand alone garden in a grassed area. Not hard to miss.

Edited March 8, 2018 by TommoThePalmGrower

[TommoThePalmGrower]

Sorry I meant Hard to miss.....

[James West]

On 11 December 2017 4:40:30 pm, James West said:

Hi Tommo

 You're right. The good one looks like it's detiorated since the pic I posted elsewhere on the site in January. They didn't give it any water through those hot Jan and Feb days.

Here's the January photo again for quick reference:

 

 

[James West]

On 11 December 2017 4:40:30 pm, James West said:

Oops. I didn't realise that the Jan photo was on the same page. sorry about that.

 

[Laisla87]

If the cold doesn't kill them, then the small eucalpytus tree planted to the north of them will. They have no chance. 

Tommo, I see some very interesting things in the background of your coconut pics. Which part of Sydney are you in if I can ask? (the city has such a varied climate that it can make all the difference).

I tried a coconut in Sydney - it did fine for a year or so until I left then died when no-one was around to take care of it.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Laisla87

[TommoThePalmGrower]

3 minutes ago, Laisla87 said:

If the cold doesn't kill them, then the small eucalpytus tree planted to the north of them will. They have no chance. 

Tommo, I see some very interesting things in the background of your coconut pics. Which part of Sydney are you in if I can ask? (the city has such a varied climate that it can make all the difference).

I tried a coconut in Sydney - it did fine until I left then died when no-one was around to take care of it.

I'm in Matraville next to Botany. My little microclimate is OK. Outdoors in our winter the following survive though some get some wind burn. Areca vestiaria, maroon is loving it even through winter but orange doesn't like the cold. Hyophorbe (All 3). Areca catechu, with winter burn. Dictyosperma album, does well. Dypsis cabadae, does well.  Dypsis leptocheilos, does fine.  Dypsis pilulifera, but oh so slow.  Normanbya normanbyi, does fine.  Euterpe edulis, some burn.  Dypsis pembana, does great,  Chamaedorea tepejilote, loves it.   Various others that everyone knows handle Sydney weather. All other tropicals come inside in winter under grow lights.

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Hello Tommo

hundreds of species will grow in coastal Sydney

New Caledonian species all grow...most Chamaedorea, Chuniophoenix species...many Dypsis.....Ravens etc.......And the list goes on...just take a walk around the Royal Botanic Gaedens Sydney and take a note pad for what you can grow..you might be surprised.....

Regards

colin

[palmad Merc]

28 minutes ago, palmtreesforpleasure said:

Hello Tommo

hundreds of species will grow in coastal Sydney

New Caledonian species all grow...most Chamaedorea, Chuniophoenix species...many Dypsis.....Ravens etc.......And the list goes on...just take a walk around the Royal Botanic Gaedens Sydney and take a note pad for what you can grow..you might be surprised.....

Regards

colin

Yep,you'd be surprised what you can grow, given the right microclimate.

This A vest ,orange has been in the ground for 6 years,and I've heard there is one growing in Kiama.

[TommoThePalmGrower]

I am certainly trying to stretch the boundaries. These are growing out back in my Sydney garden either in the ground or in pots. The more tropical come inside for winter but they all thrive between about November to May. The 2 biggest issues I find in growing in my garden is mealy bugs and dry winter wind which hammers some.

Archontophoenix alexandrae 
Archontophoenix cunninghamiana 
Archontophoenix purpurea –
Areca catechu 
Areca triandra 
Areca vestiaria – maroon 
Areca vestiaria – orange 
Beccariophoenix madagascariensis 
Bismarckia nobilis 
Calyptrocalyx flabellatus 
Carpentaria acuminate –
Caryota mitis –
Chamaedorea elegans 
Chamaedorea metallica 
Chamaedorea seifrizii 
Chamaedorea tepejilote 
Chambeyronia macrocarpa –
Cocos nucifera 
Cyrtostachys renda 
Dictyosperma album var. album 
Dypsis baronii –
Dypsis cabadae 
Dypsis decaryi 
Dypsis leptocheilos 
Dypsis lutescens 
Dypsis mirabilis 
Dypsis pembana 
Dypsis pilulifera 
Euterpe edulis 
Howea forsteriana 
Hyophorbe indica -
Hyophorbe lagenicaulis 
Hyophorbe verschaffeltii 
Licuala grandis
Licuala peltata var. Sumawongii 
Licuala ramsayi
Lytocaryum weddellianum 
Normanbya normanbyi 
Phoenix roebelenii 
Ptychosperma elegans 
Ptychosperma macarthurii 
Ravenea rivularis 
Syagrus romanzoffiana 
Syagrus schizophylla 
Verschaffeltia splendida
Washingtonia robusta 
Wodyetia bifurcate 
 

I think that's it....  

[Nick1985]

Went there today to see how the trees are going. Still alive, one in particular is sad. If they can make it until this time next month I reckon they’ll be alright. 

[TommoThePalmGrower]

Were there only 2 there? If so 1 must have perished. Looking at the first photo looks like the stump of the 3rd one.... 

Edited August 4, 2018 by TommoThePalmGrower

[Palms4Steve]

On 04/08/2018, 4:49:03, TommoThePalmGrower said:

Were there only 2 there? If so 1 must have perished. Looking at the first photo looks like the stump of the 3rd one.... 

Yes there was 3.   

[bubba]

Sydney looks like a spot that with a watchful eye, Cocos nucifera could make it long-term (similar to Perth). Unfortunately those installed mature specimens at the Sydney Botanical Garden did not receive the proper care or proper placement that could have assured their success.

[tim_brissy_13]

Looks like the current Sydney Botanic Gardens Coconut experiment is over. As of yesterday there is only 1 left and it has been reduced to little more than a stump. Everythimg else in the gardens is amazing, plenty of palms that I consider tropical looking right at home including Cryosophilas, Tahina, Pinanga and even an Aphandra seedling.

[Nick1985]

4 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Looks like the current Sydney Botanic Gardens Coconut experiment is over. As of yesterday there is only 1 left and it has been reduced to little more than a stump. Everythimg else in the gardens is amazing, plenty of palms that I consider tropical looking right at home including Cryosophilas, Tahina, Pinanga and even an Aphandra seedling.

A bit of a shame, I really think it could have worked out. Well below average temps since mid August with a lot of rain have seen the end of it. Let's hope a humid summer may revitalise it. 

 

[GottmitAlex]

Hence,  transplanting juvenile or mature coconut palms into a marginal-climate area is perilous...

The roots in 8-9 months really do not have ample time to establish.  They're basically on life support.

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by GottmitAlex

[Nick1985]

2 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Hence,  transplanting juvenile or mature coconut palms into a marginal-climate area is perilous...

The roots in 8-9 months really do not have ample time to establish.  They're basically on life support.

 

Yep maybe a bit too far south. I have a palm growing, but took it inside from mid July. Was starting to yellow and I was going away for a month. Outside again now and seems to be doing OK. I think Sydney cops too many cold fronts to survive full time. 3 hours North I think would be OK, somewhere like coastal Port Maquarie.

 

[tim_brissy_13]

4 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Hence,  transplanting juvenile or mature coconut palms into a marginal-climate area is perilous...

The roots in 8-9 months really do not have ample time to establish.  They're basically on life support.

 

Agree, especially when they are planted just before winter. Never stood a great chance.

[Daryl]

10 hours ago, Nick1985 said:

Yep maybe a bit too far south. I have a palm growing, but took it inside from mid July. Was starting to yellow and I was going away for a month. Outside again now and seems to be doing OK. I think Sydney cops too many cold fronts to survive full time. 3 hours North I think would be OK, somewhere like coastal Port Maquarie.

 

There are trunking coconuts growing in Forster, which is 225KM (140miles) north of Sydney.

There are some large ones in South West Rocks which is half way between Sydney and QLD at 31S

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-30.88592,153.0392048,3a,37y,130.12h,100.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEoIhKKrNQlbqFb1P6N5iRg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

I tried and failed many times when I lived in Sydney...I think the ground temps are too cold for them and the growing season too short and cool to get over the previous winter.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Daryl

[JasminInYarpshire]

There's a big gap between Sydney and Forster, so it'd be interesting to see where the limit lies.  I can't help wondering if somewhere like Nelson Bay might be a viable location. Surrounded by the sea to moderate temperatures, facing the ocean to the north and shielded by hills to moderate the worst of the weather from the south. The coastal suburbs of Newcastle might also be a test of the limit - again shielded to the south by Merewether Heights.

 

 

 

[Tyrone]

On 25/10/2018, 9:16:36, Daryl said:

There are trunking coconuts growing in Forster, which is 225KM (140miles) north of Sydney.

There are some large ones in South West Rocks which is half way between Sydney and QLD at 31S

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-30.88592,153.0392048,3a,37y,130.12h,100.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEoIhKKrNQlbqFb1P6N5iRg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

I tried and failed many times when I lived in Sydney...I think the ground temps are too cold for them and the growing season too short and cool to get over the previous winter.

That's about the same latitudinal limit on the west coast too. Once you get into the 20's then you're in with a chance to grow a healthy coconut. Anyone further south are better growing Beccariophoenix for that similar look without any of the hassle of a marginal Cocos. With a bit of care I reckon B alfredii would grow in Tassie and still look better than a marginal coconut further north.

[greysrigging]

An interesting article.....

https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/blogs/wild-journey/2016/12/coconut-palms-shouldnt-be-promoted-as-symbols-of-tropical-queensland/?fbclid=IwAR02rp4UymqsA4tt9NcW-YChxu6JEiAhe3v6qBR31Cc7zukCZ4XI9Svcguc

[Tyrone]

35 minutes ago, greysrigging said:

An interesting article.....

https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/blogs/wild-journey/2016/12/coconut-palms-shouldnt-be-promoted-as-symbols-of-tropical-queensland/?fbclid=IwAR02rp4UymqsA4tt9NcW-YChxu6JEiAhe3v6qBR31Cc7zukCZ4XI9Svcguc

Yes, a debate that's been going on for years. Not sure how you can say that a palm that can send its seeds across the ocean didn't naturally colonise. The coconut is part of the indigenous north QLD culture up there, and just because Captain Cook didn't mention them or drawings weren't made of them doesn't mean they weren't there. They didn't draw Ptychosperma elegans either and they were there by the billions. 

I think Captain Cook was more concerned with not sinking the Endeavour and keeping it afloat after running into the Reef than coconut spotting, which would have been common as muck to the crew after travelling the Worlds tropical oceans.

I don't agree with the article. Eucalyptus also invaded Australia from the north. Does that make them a non native invading weed. They help bushfires spread too. 

[greysrigging]

Indeed I don't necessarily agree with the article..... Coconuts have colonized the tropical world due to fact that that the seeds float. In any case they have naturalized the northern tropical coasts of Australia. They are a weed in Darwin I reckon.... mind you I have 3 in my suburban garden.... 

[Tyrone]

I think it's logical to think that the larger coconut varieties were spread by man. The north of Australia as well as the Polynesian islands and Papua New Guinea likely had people in boats and canoes coming and going all the time for Millenia long before white settlement.  If you're going on an ocean voyage you'd take coconuts for water for the journey. Some would have gone overboard, others that may have been surplus to the needs of the people in the boats would have left them behind. They may have grown up then spread out on the currents. Cocos nucifera has no one spot on the earth where it can be certain that it came from. Phoenix dactylifera is the same. People just moved them around, so if you see some you know humans did it. There's probably no real wild Phoenix dactylifera in existence. They even exist along old railway lines in the South west wheatbelt long after the rails were ripped up.

I think the coconuts in north qld just prove that people lived there. Does that make them a weed. I don't think so. They're part of the heritage of Australia.

[Zeeth]

Here's an article about self-sown wild-type coconuts being found in Australia

2387847.pdf

[Nick1985]

These are gone. Must not have survived. 

Ive got one going outside but isn’t shooting as well as last year even though it’s summer. Had some white spotting on it which I thought might have been spider mites. I’ve got rid of them, as soon as I did another shoot has come up. Still only pot size really but there’s hope for it. Had someone stay at our place and they cut back the palm fronds too last year  

Any tips on encouraging growth? It’s the right climate at the moment so just want to get it going before winter. In a pot with potting mix at the moment. 

[palmad Merc]

16 minutes ago, Nick1985 said:

These are gone. Must not have survived. 

Ive got one going outside but isn’t shooting as well as last year even though it’s summer. Had some white spotting on it which I thought might have been spider mites. I’ve got rid of them, as soon as I did another shoot has come up. Still only pot size really but there’s hope for it. Had someone stay at our place and they cut back the palm fronds too last year  

Any tips on encouraging growth? It’s the right climate at the moment so just want to get it going before winter. In a pot with potting mix at the moment. 

Nick, where in Sydney are you?

[Nick1985]

1 hour ago, palmad Merc said:

Nick, where in Sydney are you?

Northern Beaches 

[palmad Merc]

I'm in Dee Why!

[palmad Merc]

20 minutes ago, Nick1985 said:

Northern Beaches 

I know the perfect micro climate that a coconut palm may stand a chance!

But I may need to speak to council!!!

[Lee lee]

I have seen lots around in Queensland and down to Byron, I have also seen one in Port Macquarie and one small coconut palm in Newcastle.

 

You may have a chance at growing one right along the coast in Sydney,  but definitely not in the west it’ll just be too cold in winter for them.