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What is the most cold hardy Coccothrinax? My experiment (Pictures to come)


smithgn

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Until recently (the last few years or so), I've decided to try various species that aren't hardy to my zone, or in some cases, select species where there's very limited information on its hardiness. I've had many failures, but a success or two in Laccospadix Australasica and Washingtonia Robusta (so far in 8B and 9A winters).

I've now decided to try out the Coccothrinax genus. I've read that the vast majority of them are 9B and up, but I tried to find some that will stay relatively short in stature (just in case I want to protect it during a really bad winter) and one that is a noted 9B hardiness zone rating. This years pick for my experiment is Coccothrinax Hiorami. I will include pictures tomorrow and its microclimate, but I've planted it against the sunny side of my house, right up against brick and protected by hedges and overshadowed by a frond or two of my W. Robusta. It's pretty much protected/enclosed on all sides but it still receives a few hours of direct afternoon sunlight and dappled sunlight in late afternoon. 

So, we'll see how hardy this sucker is. I dont plan on protecting it, unless we get some crazy lower teen temperatures (I'd like to give it a fighting chance) but if we have a winter like last year and the year before, I'd be interested to see how it does in a protected microclimate during a 8B/9A winter. With that said, what are the most cold hardy Coccothrinax in order? I know many are mid to upper 20's but any that stand out more than the rest? 

Pictures to come tomorrow. 

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I had a crinta die alonside a few mules, c. Alba and bismarckia that didnt even burn this year. Arenga engleri close by did burn and died as well. I know this isnt a temp or ranking like you were looking for.  

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My experience is that Coccothrinax argentata has been hardiest. It is also the only Coccothrinax native to FL. Mine has taken rain, drought and temps down to 28.5F with no damage whatsoever. All the other species of this genus suffered some kind of damage. Nothing seems to faze this palm here and it looks immaculate unless my husband finds a wasps' nest and sprays insecticide. That said, no palm from this genus can survive a SC winter. And while your winter includes lots of dreary cold and precipitation that can be lethal to many palms, winters here are mostly dry and sunny. This species is very slow growing and takes years to achieve any height. Mine was put in the ground as a 1g in 1993 and still has only about 3' of trunk and is not much taller than I am. Some specimens growing in mainland FL show this low growth habit and mine must be one of those. It is also a very beautiful palm with drooping fronds that are dark green above and shimmering silver below (hence its common name "Florida silver palm").

As for other species, my barbadensis show a bit of cold hardiness and are fast growing for a Cocco. So does crinita, but I've found it difficult to keep this one alive long term and have lost several smaller specimens. It is also prone to spear pulling and fungal leaf infections, I think due to my very high humidity. It may prefer a much drier climate like in parts of Cuba. I have doubts it could survive the harsh conditions of your climate. 

 

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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Here are some pics of my microclimate; not ideal for "showing off" my palms but it's a nice testing area for my borderline palms. So far, I have a W. Robusta, the Coccothrinax Hiorami and in the very corner is my Laccospadix Australasica. 

IMG_0591_zps5shx3ehr.jpg

 

IMG_0596_zpsyepbnuti.jpg

 

IMG_0594_zpsdutyndtn.jpg

 

Closeup of the Coccothrinax

IMG_0592_zpswkumoxlu.jpg

The "opening" that will give my Coccothrinax the afternoon sun it needs. This was taken at midmorning; you can see the sun is heading in the direction to give the Coccothrinax it's needed sunshine. 

IMG_0597_zps4uozygfg.jpg

 

 

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4 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I had a crinta die alonside a few mules, c. Alba and bismarckia that didnt even burn this year. Arenga engleri close by did burn and died as well. I know this isnt a temp or ranking like you were looking for.  

Thats interesting. I've read that a C. Crinita is hardy from 9A to 10A from various sites; so there's no telling. So wait, you had Mules die and C. Albas and a Bismarckia survive?! Palms are finicky. I think it really comes down to genes and where each palm was cultivated when young; It all could be a matter of a few degrees. 

2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

My experience is that Coccothrinax argentata has been hardiest. It is also the only Coccothrinax native to FL. Mine has taken rain, drought and temps down to 28.5F with no damage whatsoever. All the other species of this genus suffered some kind of damage. Nothing seems to faze this palm here and it looks immaculate unless my husband finds a wasps' nest and sprays insecticide. That said, no palm from this genus can survive a SC winter. And while your winter includes lots of dreary cold and precipitation that can be lethal to many palms, winters here are mostly dry and sunny. This species is very slow growing and takes years to achieve any height. Mine was put in the ground as a 1g in 1993 and still has only about 3' of trunk and is not much taller than I am. Some specimens growing in mainland FL show this low growth habit and mine must be one of those. It is also a very beautiful palm with drooping fronds that are dark green above and shimmering silver below (hence its common name "Florida silver palm").

As for other species, my barbadensis show a bit of cold hardiness and are fast growing for a Cocco. So does crinita, but I've found it difficult to keep this one alive long term and have lost several smaller specimens. It is also prone to spear pulling and fungal leaf infections, I think due to my very high humidity. It may prefer a much drier climate like in parts of Cuba. I have doubts it could survive the harsh conditions of your climate. 

 

Coccothrinax Argentata would be ideal, it stays fairly small. On paper, yes, none of these have a chance to survive. But on paper, Robustas and Filibustas aren't hardy here but for some reason, they still do okay; albeit with damage most winters. But I know I am pushing the envelope a little more than just growing a 9A Robusta, but thats the fun in it I guess. But you're right, the only drawback is that this particular Coccothrinax is slow, heck, it seems all of them are slow; which is a drawback from them regrowing any damaged leaves. But I think with it staying small is a plus, it would coincide with the microclimate provided that blocks all cold winds and the insulation from the brick. 

I'm glad you pointed out the dry conditions in Cuba that might make it tough here or Florida and cause rot. I'm interested to see how this plays out. I'll keep Argentata in mind when trying my next experiment but for now I'm going to see how this Hiorami goes. Hopefully we have another mild winter so it can get semi-established. 

 

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Coccothrinax require nearly full time sun and high heat. How many hours of afternoon sun will yours get this summer? How many hours of sun does that area get  in winter? If little to none, your Coccos may not survive until next summer. Will the surrounding plantings grow high enough to cut off sun in the future? Does the soil drain really well? These palms don't like wet feet. They come from areas of alkaline, sandy and/or shell rock substrate.

I would in no way equate the hardiness of a Coccothrinax to any Washingtonia, despite the 9a/9b designation of the latter. I don't think any Cocco can survive a true 9a winter. I've seen a few planted near water here in Cape Coral, i.e., Cape Harbour in South Cape, and on or near the Caloosahatchee River in a couple of Ft. Myers palm parks. None of them is common around here but I'm not aware of any east of I75 where winters are 9b. Washies are as common around SWFL as fleas on a dog.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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6 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Coccothrinax require nearly full time sun and high heat. How many hours of afternoon sun will yours get this summer? How many hours of sun does that area get  in winter? If little to none, your Coccos may not survive until next summer. Will the surrounding plantings grow high enough to cut off sun in the future? Does the soil drain really well? These palms don't like wet feet. They come from areas of alkaline, sandy and/or shell rock substrate.

I would in no way equate the hardiness of a Coccothrinax to any Washingtonia, despite the 9a/9b designation of the latter. I don't think any Cocco can survive a true 9a winter. I've seen a few planted near water here in Cape Coral, i.e., Cape Harbour in South Cape, and on or near the Caloosahatchee River in a couple of Ft. Myers palm parks. None of them is common around here but I'm not aware of any east of I75 where winters are 9b. Washies are as common around SWFL as fleas on a dog.

Oh, that area will get less than 4 hours of full afternoon sun. I don't know for sure, but I assume this plant was kept in a greenhouse or in heavy shade judging by the pictures the seller posted on ebay. I may message him come to think of it. What difference would it make if it was kept in a greenhouse as to what spot it is in now? Surely, if it does survive the next several winters whether I protect or not, it will begin to peak it's head above the bush line and get the later 4 hours or so of sun in the afternoon (during the summertime, of course).

Oddly enough, there is a mix of sand and silt around this area of my house. I have no idea where the sand came from, I'm technically still several miles from the sandhills region.

It will get less direct sun in the winter time. But in the dead of winter around here, everything, including palms go dormant. I think that's why we can sometimes get away with borderline palms and citrus (a popular theory from my peers) since our falls and winters are so pronounced. The plant will harden off during semi-cold nights and by the time a devastating cold front comes in, the plants are well into dormancy. That's one big reason citrus took a huge hit in central Florida in the 80's. From what I heard (I could be wrong), that fall up through December were particular warm and everything was continually growing, and then the cold front hit in January and it devastated everything.

Oh I'm definitely not equating a washy in hardiness to any Coccothrinax, but if they're grown in relatively unprotected areas here and survive, then surely there's a chance (maybe?) to keep a smaller coccothrinax in an extremely protected area. There wasn't much literature on the Hiorami other than a what the seller listed as hardy down to mid-20's. I've gotten lucky with my Laccospadix Australasica with 8B winters, so I was hoping to strike gold with the Hiorami, but it doesn't look like I have judging by what you're saying! Now I feel like I've made it a sacrificial lamb! Lol- But it is an experiment, after all, so we'll see. I do appreciate your insight.  

Whats your opinion on the chances of a Thrinax Radiata comparatively to Coccothrinax Argentata/Hiorami?

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Even in summer you aren't providing enough sun for this sun-loving palm. Lack of sun in winter will probably be a death sentence. Even in ideal conditions these palms grow slowly to glacially. They will likely be dead long before they grow tall enough to "peek" above the claustrophobic vegetation that surrounds them. They stand a better chance if you plant them out in the open and rig protection from cold, winter snow and rain. Or keep them in deep pots that you move indoors during inclement winter weather and back out on warm, sunny days. The drawback with that is that Coccothrinax make poor houseplants because of their need for sun and high heat. Your house may be too dark, cold & dry for them come January. At least you are in SC, not  NY, so maybe you can baby them through the shorter depths of winter.

Thrinax radiata have comparable needs, also grow slowly and get bigger.

Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I had two C. barbadensis survive 28f in pots last winter, they had some leaf burn on the old foliage but will be fine. A much larger D. lutescens that had been planted for years burned to the ground.  I think C. barb. will make it in 9b once it's in the ground. Love to find a couple of argentata.  

IMG_0090.JPG

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Good luck.

I'm pushing the envelope on a couple of things too so we'll have to share notes sometime.  I am not convinced that we have any advantage with regards to winter dormancy though (as indicated by the devastating late freeze this year).  I lost several plants, including some citrus that sailed through the winter just fine but leafed out too early.  Even some very cold hardy species took a hit - Japanese maples that leafed early were defoliated, and the neighbor has one that barely survived it (but native species were generally undamaged).

Steve

 

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SmithGN, try Leucothrinax Morrissi. That's a cousin and it is supposed to be hardy in northern Florida, which region gets similar levels of cold to extreme southeastern South Carolina, e.g. Huntington Island, Charleston, etc. I picked up a Leucothrinax Morrissii at HD, so I have one, but now I am convinced that mine is really a Cocothrinax Argentata.  This palm has never been damaged in my northern Florida climate, but I have only had it planted out in the ground for the last six or seven years.  It hasn't really been tested by brutal cold, though; My coldest temperature over these past six or seven years (2011-2017) has been 26 degrees -- and likely only for about an hour.  At some point in the future, it will be hit by 19 degrees and that will be the real test.

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Correction:  I meant to say that mine is probably a thrinax radiata, not a Cocothrinax Argentata (all three are southern Florida natives, so I get confused).

As for shade/sun, mine is planted in deep shade and is doing fine.  It is slow growing, but has never been cold-damaged.

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....and I have never attempted to protect it either.  So, if Thrinax Radiata is this hardy, then Leucothrinax  Morrissi is even hardier.  The bigger question is whether it will survive in South Carolina -- two states north of us!

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On 6/21/2017, 8:02:55, Turtlesteve said:

Good luck.

I'm pushing the envelope on a couple of things too so we'll have to share notes sometime.  I am not convinced that we have any advantage with regards to winter dormancy though (as indicated by the devastating late freeze this year).  I lost several plants, including some citrus that sailed through the winter just fine but leafed out too early.  Even some very cold hardy species took a hit - Japanese maples that leafed early were defoliated, and the neighbor has one that barely survived it (but native species were generally undamaged).

Steve

 

For sure, Steve. We wont ever know until we try. I had spear pull on a lot of hybrids and of course butias (this happens almost every year for the young ones). It's not a very big advantage that we have, but more times than not, our plants here brace for the cold and get time to acclimate. Trust me, I'd rather have central and northern Florida's weather any day, but I'd like to think we have some advantage in this particular aspect, but not much. 

On 6/23/2017, 1:46:45, Sandy Loam said:

....and I have never attempted to protect it either.  So, if Thrinax Radiata is this hardy, then Leucothrinax  Morrissi is even hardier.  The bigger question is whether it will survive in South Carolina -- two states north of us!

Thanks for the advice. It's easy to get all of the south Florida natives confused. They all look fairly similar and are about the same hardiness and they seem to attain about the same overall height. If I can perhaps get my hands on a Morrissii, it could possibly be a test subject too. 

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